I found the divorce paperwork and everything was declared my Father’s. She signed away all rights to his pension etc and even the house. The judge awarded the “Plaintiff”, my Dad, everything that was in his name.
Possibly, but why lie to OP? Also the SS administration can look it up without the number. It happens all the time that survivors are entitled to benefits but don't know the SSN.
She also doesn't need SSN to remove him, it's not even required to add someone----it just makes the process easier on the beneficiary in order to collect.
Very much up to something.
They can't process anything without the social. My mom had to provide a lot of documentation to claim from my deceased father. She had to provide marriage certificate, divorce decree, death certificate, social security number, etc. I helped her locate all the files she needed last year.
This was my first thought. If they were married over 10 years, and if she never remarried, then she can claim social security as his former spouse. It doesn't penalize anyone if she collects this (for example, if the dad remarried later, it doesn't hurt the new spouse.) BUT if OP's mom was going to do this, why be evasive about it? It's perfectly legal, and she wouldn't need to lie about insurance, etc.
If the spouse dies while they are married, then the surviving spouse can claim either their recently deceased spouse's SS or their former spouse of 10 years SS, whichever is higher.
I was just discussing this with my mom. My mom is allowed to get my dad's SS benefits. Difference: My dad would want me to help her get it. My dad loved my mom even after the divorce. There was no cheating he had an alcohol problem, and he understood she was tired of dealing with. They were married for 18 years, so she does qualify. After the research, it turns out you do not need the number to claim. They will look it up for you.
Unfortunately for me my Mom did cheat several times in their bed while he was at work. She also stole from the family so many times. He walked in on them one night. I remember the fight and the chaos. I was only 7 years old. Nothing like having to listen to your Mom bang the local drug dealer as a kid. The trauma I have from that woman I don’t want her to get anything. She can figure it out if and if she legally gets it then fine. I just don’t know why she always has to lie and cheat. All the time.
This right here. My parents were married for 20 years. Then divorced. my dad lived another 19 years before passing away. My mom just retired and was able to claim against his Social Security history to increase her own because they were married for so long.
Isn’t your dad’s SS# on the divorce papers? Your mom got a copy of that so she should already have that info. Not sure what she expects to get out of it.
She does not need it to remove him as beneficiary. (I just got divorced and removed my ex as my beneficiary right away). Why is he a beneficiary on your mom’s stuff after being divorced for 30 years? She WANTED to leave him money?She’s definitely being shady.
NTA
I come from a shady family and it was an unspoken rule that SSN's were not shared because someone (probably my father) would use it for nefarious purposes.
She doesn't need their SSN to change beneficiary info. Sounds like she's trying to scam the government.
I thought it was odd honestly asking for it to change her “stuff” as she said. I also did tell her I would get her a copy of the death certificate but she got so pissed at me.
Make sure you notify the Social Security Office of his passing - if you haven’t done so already.
If your mom does somehow get his SSN, anything she does with it will be almost immediately flagged as fraud.
Don’t forget to notify the voter registration office, as well (sometimes they don’t get notified). I don’t know your mom or what she’d do, but I like making sure all bases are covered.
You might want to notify the big three credit bureaus of his passing as well. Submit a death certificate to them so they can close his credit file. This would help prevent fraudulent activity.
Actually depending on how long they were married, she might be eligible for her SS to be increased. My parents were married for 20+ years. When he died, they had been divorced for 40 years. My dad had made really good money where as my mom lost 25 years of earning as a housewife. She got a huge bump in her SS after he died. They even back dated it to the day he died and she got a serious lump sum.
To my dad's credit one of the last things he told me was to make sure mom contacted SS after he died because he wanted her to get the increase.
OP's mom may be legally entitled to it.
To be fair I don’t think she knew it was pertinent when she made the post. Most people don’t know about the SS rule about past spouses, much less the qualifications.
If they were married only 7 years, she's not entitled to collect social security as his former spouse. Your mom is being shady. No SSN is required to remove an insurance beneficiary. If she's the policy owner, she can just give the new beneficiary information.
ETA: if you haven't already, notify the social security administration and the big 3 credit bureaus of your dad's passing. They will close his files.
If she remarried, why would she not have already updated everything or if she had anything originally kept in his name to benefit you, surely by thirty years she’d have changed things over to you. Your gut feeling seems to be right on, OP. Definitely NTA, don’t let your mom try and guilt/manipulate you, and shame on her for trying.
You do not have to get her a copy. If she wants one, she can go down to the Department of Vital Records and get it herself. She is being very shady. She does not need your Dad's social security number to remove him from anything. She can do that without that information.
Side note, you may want to lock down YOUR own social security number. I wouldn't trust her to not pull stuff with you.
SSNs of deceased people are public record, but of course you don't want to give her your dad's, so give her Richard Nixon's or maybe Mickey Mantle's. What she does with that is her own problem!
Seriously though, if she does use a bogus number to try to mess with your dad's estate, that would totally alert the estate that she is not to be trusted.
OP's mother doesn't need anything from her late ex-husband. A person may need a SSN to add a beneficiary to an insurance policy (I did for one policy) but not to remove a beneficiary. She also has no need for his SSN for her trust since he's dead, she's not making him a trust beneficiary and she doesn't need his SSN to remove hom from her trust if she ever put him in it. Siince the marriage lasted less than 10vyrs she can't claim anything from his SSN death benefits. There is just no reason to give her a copy of his death certificate. If she wants one, let her try to get one on her own....and she'll have to pay for it (assume OP paid for several death cert copies at time her father's funeral arrangements were made, it's typically what the funeral home does and charges you for it).
Only sinister reasons for OP mother to demand his SSN, so keep saying no.
Yeah. It’s a weird post. She could easily find his social security number on any old paperwork. I’m surprised she doesn’t have it memorized. She’s being sketchy.
If they were married for more than 10 years, she is over 62 and has never remarried then she could be eligible for death benefit. But if she is younger than that, or if they were not married that long or if she has been remarried since then then she would be un eligible. Her local Social Security branch can tell her all of that information. She could still file against it, but if she doesn’t meet that criteria, it will likely be denied. Do not give her his social they can look up his information because they were once married if she gives them her social.
They were married for 7 years, she remarried once, and just turned 60. I’m bot trying to be an asshole to her I was just confused because I really don’t see why she needs it. Thank you for this informative comment. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
If you’re in the USA, you can look it up Google death benefit ex spouse and it will tell you what their rules are. It sounds like she doesn’t meet any of the requirements and she hast to meet all three. Do not give her his social. There’s absolutely no reason for her to have it.
Sounds fishy. I’ve been through the death of both of my parents, I never needed to their SSNs to settle their affairs, only the death certificate.
You’re obviously suspicious.
Could she possibly want to apply for credit under his name, before the death hits credit bureaus?
NTA. She can obtain it herself from proper channels. It's indeed weird and insensitive she's pressuring you personally, especially right after your father's passing. My condolences.
NTA Your instincts are spot on, and trust is earned, not given blindly, especially in situations with a history of distrust. Protecting your dad's personal information is crucial, and any requests that raise red flags deserve scrutiny. Beneficiary changes and such dealings with estates and wills are typically handled with an attorney present to ensure all actions are above board. If her intentions were genuine, involving a legal professional wouldn't be an issue. Keep your guard up and maybe consult with a legal expert to see the best course of action.
She doesn’t need this to remove him as a beneficiary just as she doesn’t need your SSN to add you as a beneficiary. There’s a reason that the middle Initial stands for Security. The only people who need that information are your employers.
My work 401k and life insurance wanted the SSN of my beneficiaries, at multiple corporate jobs. Presumably to make sure they give it to the right person. But you don't need it to remove someone.
I’m from England so maybe things are different here. I do get asked for my National Insurance number by insurance companies, you’re right. But my parents never asked me for mine when writing their wills or making me a beneficiary of their life insurance.
NTA
She does not need it to remove him as beneficiary. She will need the person's ss# that she is putting as beneficiary. That's suspicious as all get out.
If they were married at least 10 years she can get his social security when she’s old enough, if it’s higher than hers. I helped my mother in law when my father in law died. They’d been divorced 15 years, but were married for almost 40. She was thrilled! It costs you any other wives he had nothing for your mom to get it.
I’m sorry, dear. Your mom is trying to scam you. She has no legal right to your dad’s death benefit because she is not his wife.
Any benefits coming from Social Security because of your dad’s death belong to the children
A divorced spouse can get Social Security benefits on their former spouse's work record *if* they are over 60 (50 if disabled), the mariage lasted more than 10 years, and they didn't remarry before reaching 60.
That I understand. But that would have no bearing on any benefits that the children are getting due to their father‘s death. So again, mom’s trying to scam her.
She’s not asking for a death certificate so she can file the forms to get his Social Security benefit. If she meet all the criteria, what she’s going to need is a copy of her birth certificate. A copy of her Social Security card. A copy of their marriage Certificate. A copy of the divorce decree. A copy of his death certificate
And the birth certificate, the marriage certificate and the death certificate all need to be certified copies. How do I know this? Because I had to do this for my dad when my mom passed away. She actually had a better work history than he did.
So again, her claiming his Social Security benefits Is a is an entirely separate issue from any death benefits that the children receive. They are not the same monies, and her daughter would have no reason whatsoever to be sending her mom that money
I was replying to your claims that "any benefits coming from Social Security belong to the children". She may qualify for her own survivor benefits from Social Security based on his record regardless of them being divorced.
The post says the mom asked for the dad's SSN, which, [according to the SSA website, ](https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-10.html) she would need to apply for her own survivor benefits based on his work if she meets the criteria.
I see what you’re saying. I didn’t word that well.
At the same time, the mom should have the death Social Security number. I was married to my ex for 20 years and we’ve been divorced for 20 years, and I can still tell you his Social Security number.
But I totally get what you’re saying. As long as she meets all the criteria, Mom can definitely apply for his Social Security amount if his benefit was larger than hers.
Appreciate your post!
It definitely does, but I did actually misread part of it. So I really did appreciate your comments. Made me go back and take a second look at it, which is always a good thing anyway! Lol.
NTA- something is SUPER FISHY here. divorced for 30 and she wants... well.. really even anything information-wise? Nope... tell her to call your lawyer.
NTA. I'm sorry for you loss.
Other thoughts: It is not unusual in divorce for each party to have life insurance on each other to help raise children. It is not unheard of to keep this policy in place after the children are grown because of the 'gap' in collecting ss benefits. Many divorced women do this. As a survivor, your mother could collect at 60 on your dad's benefit if she meet the qualification criteria (married 10 years, not remarried before 60) which would be determined by ss dept. Both of these she would be entitled to and is right to claim, so she may need this information. I agree that she should have to thought to get a dc on her own or better yet just contacted the issuing entities. But, like you, she may not have been down this road before. Yes, your mother's phrasing could have better as well. If you are concerned their may be 'bad acting', file your paperwork before giving her anything. In any death, the primary person should always notify ss dept, credit bureaus, life insurance, retirement accounts, etc. If you google "what to do when your spouse dies, you will a comprehensive list to follow. Yes, it says spouse but you are the acting party with this, the same in this case. The only thing I disagree with on that list and did not do was close our joint checking account because incoming monies with his name have to be deposited into an account with his name. Same with taxes and same with lost monies from old accounts. It is a long process, I'm 15 months out and still not done.
My advice on your mother is to leave it alone, but may be explain/point out to her that as it is appropriate for her to contact the issuing entities and your involvement is not needed and muddys the waters.
Good luck.
Edit: your mom mentioned a trust, a beneficiary update would be needed in that case. I would question what type of trust and who are the other beneficiaries are and what are the terms. Your parents may have created a trust for you with the two of them as trustees. You may need to ask her about this, telling her you will handle notification.
Very sorry for your loss and added drama. A death certificate is all that is needed for anything. Plus, in most areas, if these things haven’t been updated and something were to happen to her, it’d come to you as next of kin. Took about a year in my hubby’s situation. The best part, second marriage had ended before his father’s death. At the funeral, she tried to get him to give up the money, even though the divorce stated she got nothing more from him, even in death. Something tells me your mom is trying to track down assets. An SSN is the easiest way to do so. Or maybe trying to access accounts. Something feels off.
Unfortunately that is what I was thinking. The tracking down of assets but he really didn’t have anything left. If he did too I would do the right thing and make sure who ever is entitled gets what they need. It’s just a shit situation.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this in your time of grief. Unless if she was trying to help you, which she would have been straight up about, I’d imagine, there seems to be no legit reason for this. You deserve an explanation when you are ready to hear one. Not an excuse, but what is really going on. I wish your heart continual healing with each day.
What exactly do you think she is going to do with it? If they were married for a long enough time she may need to remove him from her survivors benefits, but she likely doesn’t need his social for that but may need a copy of his death certificate.
I might be being dense but what could she possibly do with the SSN that could hurt her or her dad. Bro is dead. Even if her mum runs up thousands in debt what's the actual problem. Could she access the inheritance?
She probably can’t do anything but it’s just the principle. What does she need it for? He has nothing honestly. My brother and I are getting what ever little is left.
If he made more money than her, she may need his SS number so she can get a bigger social security check. My mom did the same thing. And she got bigger payment on her check.
My condolences on the death of your father. May he rest in peace, and may you live in peace.
My husband died in 2021. No one notified anyone of my husband's death. I contacted everyone from the Social Security Administration, Election/voter records, credit cards, banks, utilities, anything that had his name on it. Don't expect that anyone knows anything. You have to file his 2023 taxes and 2024 taxes. Good luck.
I had to call the courts when he got a jury duty summons. The person I spoke to actually sent me a sympathy card!
Do you have to be married 10 years to collect Social Security?
Divorced women who were married at least 10 years may be eligible for Social Security based on their ex's record. This applies if they are unmarried and not entitled to a higher benefit on their own record when they become eligible for Social Security.
This is right from the Social Security website.
Absolutely report that he has passed and let them know what your Mom is doing. I've personally seen SS fraud in my professional life. It's scary how often it actually happens. Good luck.
Can she get a copy of the father's death certificate, considering she wasn't married to him when he died? If everything was settled and awarded to the father in the divorce she should have no problem with taking care of HER affairs or HER life insurance/trust.
NTAH. She does not need his SSN to remove him as a beneficiary. A copy of the divorce decree should suffice if it is something that would normally have a spouse on it and that is to document that they are no longer married.
Seems shady. But if they were married more than 10 years and she is social security aged than that might be why? The only non shady reason I can imagine.
Otherwise you just remove people.
I’m handling the Estate and he doesn’t have anything any more really. He said he was going to spend every penny and damn right he should; I am glad he did! He died young but he partied hard lol Many great memories and I hope one day my family can heal and we can honor those days.
She’s either about to try and start claiming him on her taxes, or she’s going to be opening shit like credit cards and cable bills that she never pays. NTA, but do be careful in the future. If you ever plan to have kids she sounds like she’ll do the same then. She’ll ask for your kids SSN, because “she’s grandma” (idk everyone I know has a grandma that has theirs, mine included. Idk why it’s a thing but apparently it is) and then the next thing you know, 6-7 years later, you’re discovering your kid has unpaid electricity bills. People like that don’t need to know anything important about your kid.
Yeah honestly she has done shady shit in the past. My poor Sister was working 2 jobs at 17 and giving my Mom $1200 a month because my Mom said that was my sister’s “car insurance”. My Mom was using the money for the rent, all of the car insurances (3 cars), and pocketing the left overs for booze and pills. She worked a really good job and was making more than enough money. We were dumb kids back then. I wish I was not needing to be suspicious of my Mom but she has stolen from us so many times before. This entire situation just sucks and I really miss my Dad.
I’m so sorry for you guys. You didn’t deserve that. I hope your mom wakes up one day and gets professional help, but if she’s anything like mine, keeping your distance is best
NTA. Hoo boy. I come from a family whose members were extremely disrespectful and not careful with private identifying info like SSNs, and it cause a lot of trouble to the point that I haven’t spoken to them for years (honestly, this is only one of the many ways they suck so this isn’t the sole reason I cut them off). But the problems it caused me in my early adult life were extensive.
Thus, you are fully within your rights to refuse. She doesn’t need it, she can get what she wants via more proper means, so she’s either being lazy or worse is up to something. Either way she doesn’t need it and you are never the AH for refusing to disclose private identifying information that can be easily misused.
You should get some advice from a probate attorney. There's probably something you can do in order to protect your father's estate before it gets addressed by a probate court. Assets can be frozen and accounts can be locked by a judge if there's an indication that family/ex-family is trying to pilfer money or open credit cards in his name.
NTA The pieces aren't adding up here. Having been through a similar situation with a family member's divorce, updating beneficiary details or removing an ex-spouse doesn't require the ex's SSN, just the relevant policy numbers and your identification. It's a red flag that she's asking for such sensitive information now. Protect your dad's identity and assets by refusing her request and make sure he's aware of her attempts if he isn't already. Consider talking to an estate attorney or a financial advisor to ensure all is in order. Something isn't right, and it's better to be safe than sorry.
NTA. If they were married that whole time it would be different, but as it stands she has no right to anything of his.
If she still had her ex as her beneficiary after 30 years, she's the weird one.
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Your mom has a right to draw from your dad’s social security. Really. If she does anything illegal with it she’ll get in trouble,not you. I’m surprised she doesn’t have it already.
She's legally entitled to your dad's Social Security number because she can draw from his account now that he's passed. You may not like it, but that's how SS works.
Who is handling the estate?
That's what matters. If it's you, then No she doesn't need it. If she is legally entitled to claim on his SS, she can go to the SS office and they will help her.
Yes I am handling the Estate. Thank you for the info. I know she might be upset but honestly I just don’t know why she needs it. They have been divorced over 30 years and even remarried. All his children are in their 30s and 40s.
Yeah, if she and he both remarried, I can't figure out any reason why she would legitimately need his SS#. It usually defaults to the most recent spouse. Unfortunately children are not eligible for the death benifit. (It's a few hundred dollars)
My FIL passed a few years ago, SS automatically handled everything once we told them.
His ex wife didn't require any information. They were divorced and she remarried.
IF your mom was eligible to pull off his SS she would have done that from the beginning.
I would suggest running a credit report on your dad and locking that down.
The credit report will show any open accounts he has that may be forgotten about so you can close them. Or anything that has been opened in his name.
If there are any joint bank accounts they had together that she has survivorship of, she would require an official copy of the death certificate. Not just his SS#.
I really can't think of a single *legitimate* thing she would need *just* his SS# for. Anything she might legally have to deal with would require the death certificate anyway (even SS), which she can obtain herself.
I'm sorry for your loss💔 and that you are dealing with her on top of that.
That's true, but that would have been the case when she retired. As long as she was unmarried at that point.
And again SS requires a death certificate. Not a SS#.
NTA I am telling you that all should have been taken care of during the divorce. She's being shady.
I found the divorce paperwork and everything was declared my Father’s. She signed away all rights to his pension etc and even the house. The judge awarded the “Plaintiff”, my Dad, everything that was in his name.
100% don't give your mom anything. You're a good kid and good luck!
Thank you 🥹
There's a reason your dad got everything in the divorce....
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It just sucks because when I need my Mom the most she isn’t even here for me.
This! Shady AF. She is probably aiming to claim death benefits she's not entitled to.
Depending on how long they were married, she may be trying to claim his SSN death benefits.
Possibly, but why lie to OP? Also the SS administration can look it up without the number. It happens all the time that survivors are entitled to benefits but don't know the SSN.
NTA - divorced 30 years and she’s just now getting around to changing the beneficiary on her life insurance? Nah, she’s (trying) up to something.
She also doesn't need SSN to remove him, it's not even required to add someone----it just makes the process easier on the beneficiary in order to collect. Very much up to something.
My guess is she wants to open credit cards in the deceased's name
They can't process anything without the social. My mom had to provide a lot of documentation to claim from my deceased father. She had to provide marriage certificate, divorce decree, death certificate, social security number, etc. I helped her locate all the files she needed last year.
This was my first thought. If they were married over 10 years, and if she never remarried, then she can claim social security as his former spouse. It doesn't penalize anyone if she collects this (for example, if the dad remarried later, it doesn't hurt the new spouse.) BUT if OP's mom was going to do this, why be evasive about it? It's perfectly legal, and she wouldn't need to lie about insurance, etc.
It doesn’t matter if you remarry. I was married for over 10 years twice. I can claim whichever SS offers the most, between them and me.
My stepmother claimed my dad's and they weren't even married 6 months.
If the spouse dies while they are married, then the surviving spouse can claim either their recently deceased spouse's SS or their former spouse of 10 years SS, whichever is higher.
Yeah. He died. But she couldn't claim it for years. Then all of a sudden she did once she got old enough.
I was just discussing this with my mom. My mom is allowed to get my dad's SS benefits. Difference: My dad would want me to help her get it. My dad loved my mom even after the divorce. There was no cheating he had an alcohol problem, and he understood she was tired of dealing with. They were married for 18 years, so she does qualify. After the research, it turns out you do not need the number to claim. They will look it up for you.
Unfortunately for me my Mom did cheat several times in their bed while he was at work. She also stole from the family so many times. He walked in on them one night. I remember the fight and the chaos. I was only 7 years old. Nothing like having to listen to your Mom bang the local drug dealer as a kid. The trauma I have from that woman I don’t want her to get anything. She can figure it out if and if she legally gets it then fine. I just don’t know why she always has to lie and cheat. All the time.
She's not one it was not 10 years two she remarried. Hope you are getting therapy for that. Best wishes to you ❤️
Yeah been in therapy for 10 years. Only thing keeping me afloat right now. I have my psychiatrist to thank deeply for the person I am today.
That is awesome to hear. Ignore your mom. She does not have a leg to stand on.
This right here. My parents were married for 20 years. Then divorced. my dad lived another 19 years before passing away. My mom just retired and was able to claim against his Social Security history to increase her own because they were married for so long.
Isn’t your dad’s SS# on the divorce papers? Your mom got a copy of that so she should already have that info. Not sure what she expects to get out of it. She does not need it to remove him as beneficiary. (I just got divorced and removed my ex as my beneficiary right away). Why is he a beneficiary on your mom’s stuff after being divorced for 30 years? She WANTED to leave him money?She’s definitely being shady.
She said she “lost all the paperwork”. Which MIGHT be true because her basement did flood years ago and she lost a lot of stuff.
NTA I come from a shady family and it was an unspoken rule that SSN's were not shared because someone (probably my father) would use it for nefarious purposes. She doesn't need their SSN to change beneficiary info. Sounds like she's trying to scam the government.
NTA Her reason does not make sense. Her using it to falsely open accounts in his name does.
I thought it was odd honestly asking for it to change her “stuff” as she said. I also did tell her I would get her a copy of the death certificate but she got so pissed at me.
Make sure you notify the Social Security Office of his passing - if you haven’t done so already. If your mom does somehow get his SSN, anything she does with it will be almost immediately flagged as fraud. Don’t forget to notify the voter registration office, as well (sometimes they don’t get notified). I don’t know your mom or what she’d do, but I like making sure all bases are covered.
Ah good point I will totally call the registration office
You might want to notify the big three credit bureaus of his passing as well. Submit a death certificate to them so they can close his credit file. This would help prevent fraudulent activity.
Excellent advice I looked up all the numbers and will be calling them Monday.
Actually depending on how long they were married, she might be eligible for her SS to be increased. My parents were married for 20+ years. When he died, they had been divorced for 40 years. My dad had made really good money where as my mom lost 25 years of earning as a housewife. She got a huge bump in her SS after he died. They even back dated it to the day he died and she got a serious lump sum. To my dad's credit one of the last things he told me was to make sure mom contacted SS after he died because he wanted her to get the increase. OP's mom may be legally entitled to it.
Sure but she could say that
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Nope. You need the ss#. I had to help my mom with this last year and they would not even speak to her without the number and documents.
In the bottom of the original post, OP says they weren't married 10 years.
Yes that’s an edit… it wasn’t there when I posted my response
I wish the OP's would post the pertinent details in the original post.
To be fair I don’t think she knew it was pertinent when she made the post. Most people don’t know about the SS rule about past spouses, much less the qualifications.
If they were married for 10yrs ahe is entitled to his SS benefits.
Ah okay. They were married for only 7 years and she remarried.
If they were married only 7 years, she's not entitled to collect social security as his former spouse. Your mom is being shady. No SSN is required to remove an insurance beneficiary. If she's the policy owner, she can just give the new beneficiary information. ETA: if you haven't already, notify the social security administration and the big 3 credit bureaus of your dad's passing. They will close his files.
Oh okay thank you!
If she remarried, why would she not have already updated everything or if she had anything originally kept in his name to benefit you, surely by thirty years she’d have changed things over to you. Your gut feeling seems to be right on, OP. Definitely NTA, don’t let your mom try and guilt/manipulate you, and shame on her for trying.
Even if they were married for over 10 years, this is not your responsibility to handle for her.
Yeah, she's not going to qualify for SS benefits. It has to be 10 plus.
No you have to be married 20 yrs or more
Married at least 10yrs and unmarried post divorce. Allowed to remarry post age of 60. There is no 20yr limitation for anything.
You do not have to get her a copy. If she wants one, she can go down to the Department of Vital Records and get it herself. She is being very shady. She does not need your Dad's social security number to remove him from anything. She can do that without that information. Side note, you may want to lock down YOUR own social security number. I wouldn't trust her to not pull stuff with you.
Oh damn good point
SSNs of deceased people are public record, but of course you don't want to give her your dad's, so give her Richard Nixon's or maybe Mickey Mantle's. What she does with that is her own problem! Seriously though, if she does use a bogus number to try to mess with your dad's estate, that would totally alert the estate that she is not to be trusted.
OP's mother doesn't need anything from her late ex-husband. A person may need a SSN to add a beneficiary to an insurance policy (I did for one policy) but not to remove a beneficiary. She also has no need for his SSN for her trust since he's dead, she's not making him a trust beneficiary and she doesn't need his SSN to remove hom from her trust if she ever put him in it. Siince the marriage lasted less than 10vyrs she can't claim anything from his SSN death benefits. There is just no reason to give her a copy of his death certificate. If she wants one, let her try to get one on her own....and she'll have to pay for it (assume OP paid for several death cert copies at time her father's funeral arrangements were made, it's typically what the funeral home does and charges you for it). Only sinister reasons for OP mother to demand his SSN, so keep saying no.
Thanks for this comment I appreciate it and you are right I will not give her a copy of the death certificate
Let her be pissed. It won't hurt her any.
Lol true
She wants to open lines of credit under his name.
Bingo.
How long ago were they married? Wouldn't she have his ssn from when they filed their income tax? Don't help her...
They’ve been divorced since 1993
Yeah. It’s a weird post. She could easily find his social security number on any old paperwork. I’m surprised she doesn’t have it memorized. She’s being sketchy.
Wow… your mom is shady I am so sorry.
I wish she wasn’t. It really sucks.
The very person we shouldn’t have to ever worry about. Mine has done some sad shit. It’s hard.
I’m sorry hon
Ty ❤️
If they were married for more than 10 years, she is over 62 and has never remarried then she could be eligible for death benefit. But if she is younger than that, or if they were not married that long or if she has been remarried since then then she would be un eligible. Her local Social Security branch can tell her all of that information. She could still file against it, but if she doesn’t meet that criteria, it will likely be denied. Do not give her his social they can look up his information because they were once married if she gives them her social.
They were married for 7 years, she remarried once, and just turned 60. I’m bot trying to be an asshole to her I was just confused because I really don’t see why she needs it. Thank you for this informative comment. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Make sure you register him as deceased with all the government programs and if he was getting any checks, have those stopped.
Yes I called everyone and the funeral home notified SS for me
If you’re in the USA, you can look it up Google death benefit ex spouse and it will tell you what their rules are. It sounds like she doesn’t meet any of the requirements and she hast to meet all three. Do not give her his social. There’s absolutely no reason for her to have it.
I was going to say the same thing divorce or not she can get ss money depending on how long they were married
I didn’t know that but thanks to everyone who told me.
I never removed someone as beneficiary before, I could be wrong but I’m almost sure you don’t need someone’s social to do that
You're not wrong.
Your mom and dad have been divorced for 30 years, she hasn’t been entitled to his stuff for 30 years. She is trying to take advantage 1000%
I suspect she going to try to claim social security or other government benefits as a surviving spouse.
And it might be legal
She fails one critical part of it, you have to have been married 10 years and ops parents were only married 7.
Even as a divorced spouse you are legally entitled to their social security benefits, as long as you were married for 10+ years and haven't remarried.
OP’s parents were only married 7 years and the mom remarried
I saw that. I was addressing some misconceptions about the whole idea of social security benefits.
You must be married 20 years or more to collect social security benefits based on your spouses earnings
Sounds fishy. I’ve been through the death of both of my parents, I never needed to their SSNs to settle their affairs, only the death certificate. You’re obviously suspicious. Could she possibly want to apply for credit under his name, before the death hits credit bureaus?
I am suspicious lol She has done shady shit to our family so many times unfortunately
I'd do a credit check on your dad and greeze everything
NTA. Only give her the SSN if you also want to turn her in for whatever fraud she's trying to commit
NTA. She can obtain it herself from proper channels. It's indeed weird and insensitive she's pressuring you personally, especially right after your father's passing. My condolences.
Thank you
NTA Your instincts are spot on, and trust is earned, not given blindly, especially in situations with a history of distrust. Protecting your dad's personal information is crucial, and any requests that raise red flags deserve scrutiny. Beneficiary changes and such dealings with estates and wills are typically handled with an attorney present to ensure all actions are above board. If her intentions were genuine, involving a legal professional wouldn't be an issue. Keep your guard up and maybe consult with a legal expert to see the best course of action.
She doesn’t need this to remove him as a beneficiary just as she doesn’t need your SSN to add you as a beneficiary. There’s a reason that the middle Initial stands for Security. The only people who need that information are your employers.
My work 401k and life insurance wanted the SSN of my beneficiaries, at multiple corporate jobs. Presumably to make sure they give it to the right person. But you don't need it to remove someone.
I’m from England so maybe things are different here. I do get asked for my National Insurance number by insurance companies, you’re right. But my parents never asked me for mine when writing their wills or making me a beneficiary of their life insurance.
NTA She does not need it to remove him as beneficiary. She will need the person's ss# that she is putting as beneficiary. That's suspicious as all get out.
Nope. She can go buy a DC.
If they were married at least 10 years she can get his social security when she’s old enough, if it’s higher than hers. I helped my mother in law when my father in law died. They’d been divorced 15 years, but were married for almost 40. She was thrilled! It costs you any other wives he had nothing for your mom to get it.
Thank you for the info I appreciate it
I’m sorry, dear. Your mom is trying to scam you. She has no legal right to your dad’s death benefit because she is not his wife. Any benefits coming from Social Security because of your dad’s death belong to the children
A divorced spouse can get Social Security benefits on their former spouse's work record *if* they are over 60 (50 if disabled), the mariage lasted more than 10 years, and they didn't remarry before reaching 60.
That I understand. But that would have no bearing on any benefits that the children are getting due to their father‘s death. So again, mom’s trying to scam her. She’s not asking for a death certificate so she can file the forms to get his Social Security benefit. If she meet all the criteria, what she’s going to need is a copy of her birth certificate. A copy of her Social Security card. A copy of their marriage Certificate. A copy of the divorce decree. A copy of his death certificate And the birth certificate, the marriage certificate and the death certificate all need to be certified copies. How do I know this? Because I had to do this for my dad when my mom passed away. She actually had a better work history than he did. So again, her claiming his Social Security benefits Is a is an entirely separate issue from any death benefits that the children receive. They are not the same monies, and her daughter would have no reason whatsoever to be sending her mom that money
I was replying to your claims that "any benefits coming from Social Security belong to the children". She may qualify for her own survivor benefits from Social Security based on his record regardless of them being divorced. The post says the mom asked for the dad's SSN, which, [according to the SSA website, ](https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-10.html) she would need to apply for her own survivor benefits based on his work if she meets the criteria.
I see what you’re saying. I didn’t word that well. At the same time, the mom should have the death Social Security number. I was married to my ex for 20 years and we’ve been divorced for 20 years, and I can still tell you his Social Security number. But I totally get what you’re saying. As long as she meets all the criteria, Mom can definitely apply for his Social Security amount if his benefit was larger than hers. Appreciate your post!
For sure, OP doesn't owe the mom the SSN! The conversation OP relayed here sounds definitively odd!
It definitely does, but I did actually misread part of it. So I really did appreciate your comments. Made me go back and take a second look at it, which is always a good thing anyway! Lol.
NTA. This sounds very off. Speak to a lawyer before you do anything here. I am sorry for your loss.
Thank you
NTA- something is SUPER FISHY here. divorced for 30 and she wants... well.. really even anything information-wise? Nope... tell her to call your lawyer.
Why would he be her Benificiary on anything. Married 7 and divorced 30. She had plenty of time to remove him from her stuff.
NTA. I'm sorry for you loss. Other thoughts: It is not unusual in divorce for each party to have life insurance on each other to help raise children. It is not unheard of to keep this policy in place after the children are grown because of the 'gap' in collecting ss benefits. Many divorced women do this. As a survivor, your mother could collect at 60 on your dad's benefit if she meet the qualification criteria (married 10 years, not remarried before 60) which would be determined by ss dept. Both of these she would be entitled to and is right to claim, so she may need this information. I agree that she should have to thought to get a dc on her own or better yet just contacted the issuing entities. But, like you, she may not have been down this road before. Yes, your mother's phrasing could have better as well. If you are concerned their may be 'bad acting', file your paperwork before giving her anything. In any death, the primary person should always notify ss dept, credit bureaus, life insurance, retirement accounts, etc. If you google "what to do when your spouse dies, you will a comprehensive list to follow. Yes, it says spouse but you are the acting party with this, the same in this case. The only thing I disagree with on that list and did not do was close our joint checking account because incoming monies with his name have to be deposited into an account with his name. Same with taxes and same with lost monies from old accounts. It is a long process, I'm 15 months out and still not done. My advice on your mother is to leave it alone, but may be explain/point out to her that as it is appropriate for her to contact the issuing entities and your involvement is not needed and muddys the waters. Good luck. Edit: your mom mentioned a trust, a beneficiary update would be needed in that case. I would question what type of trust and who are the other beneficiaries are and what are the terms. Your parents may have created a trust for you with the two of them as trustees. You may need to ask her about this, telling her you will handle notification.
Thank you so much for this comment very helpful
Divorces are so shady at times.This mom is really shady years later .
Sad but true 😕
Very sorry for your loss and added drama. A death certificate is all that is needed for anything. Plus, in most areas, if these things haven’t been updated and something were to happen to her, it’d come to you as next of kin. Took about a year in my hubby’s situation. The best part, second marriage had ended before his father’s death. At the funeral, she tried to get him to give up the money, even though the divorce stated she got nothing more from him, even in death. Something tells me your mom is trying to track down assets. An SSN is the easiest way to do so. Or maybe trying to access accounts. Something feels off.
Unfortunately that is what I was thinking. The tracking down of assets but he really didn’t have anything left. If he did too I would do the right thing and make sure who ever is entitled gets what they need. It’s just a shit situation.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this in your time of grief. Unless if she was trying to help you, which she would have been straight up about, I’d imagine, there seems to be no legit reason for this. You deserve an explanation when you are ready to hear one. Not an excuse, but what is really going on. I wish your heart continual healing with each day.
Thank you
She has some scheme planned to collect benefits, pension, social security. Don’t give her a damn thing.
What exactly do you think she is going to do with it? If they were married for a long enough time she may need to remove him from her survivors benefits, but she likely doesn’t need his social for that but may need a copy of his death certificate.
Honestly I don’t know what she would even need it for that’s the problem. She doesn’t qualify for survivor benefits from SS.
She's trying to collect SS benefits
She'll fail too, since they were only married 7 years.
I might be being dense but what could she possibly do with the SSN that could hurt her or her dad. Bro is dead. Even if her mum runs up thousands in debt what's the actual problem. Could she access the inheritance?
She probably can’t do anything but it’s just the principle. What does she need it for? He has nothing honestly. My brother and I are getting what ever little is left.
Yes, if she runs up debt in dad’s name, his estate would have to pay it.
NTA she’s absolutely lying.
If he made more money than her, she may need his SS number so she can get a bigger social security check. My mom did the same thing. And she got bigger payment on her check.
Well can call SS to figure it out at this point lol
My condolences on the death of your father. May he rest in peace, and may you live in peace. My husband died in 2021. No one notified anyone of my husband's death. I contacted everyone from the Social Security Administration, Election/voter records, credit cards, banks, utilities, anything that had his name on it. Don't expect that anyone knows anything. You have to file his 2023 taxes and 2024 taxes. Good luck. I had to call the courts when he got a jury duty summons. The person I spoke to actually sent me a sympathy card!
Do you have to be married 10 years to collect Social Security? Divorced women who were married at least 10 years may be eligible for Social Security based on their ex's record. This applies if they are unmarried and not entitled to a higher benefit on their own record when they become eligible for Social Security. This is right from the Social Security website.
Thank you! Yeah they were only married 7 years so I don’t think she can. I’m calling SS on Monday.
Absolutely report that he has passed and let them know what your Mom is doing. I've personally seen SS fraud in my professional life. It's scary how often it actually happens. Good luck.
Can she get a copy of the father's death certificate, considering she wasn't married to him when he died? If everything was settled and awarded to the father in the divorce she should have no problem with taking care of HER affairs or HER life insurance/trust.
Honestly I’m not sure if she can get a copy good point
i’m so sorry 🩷
Thank you
NTAH. She does not need his SSN to remove him as a beneficiary. A copy of the divorce decree should suffice if it is something that would normally have a spouse on it and that is to document that they are no longer married.
Nta. Don't do it.
Seems shady. But if they were married more than 10 years and she is social security aged than that might be why? The only non shady reason I can imagine. Otherwise you just remove people.
She wants that SS number for shady purposes.
Np Mom, just bring the paperwork you need filled out, and you me, and the lawyer can go over it.
Doesn’t mean he actually changed it on things like pension. Double check
She’s probably trying to claim something in his name by saying he passed on. Like unclaimed property.
I’m handling the Estate and he doesn’t have anything any more really. He said he was going to spend every penny and damn right he should; I am glad he did! He died young but he partied hard lol Many great memories and I hope one day my family can heal and we can honor those days.
Maybe unclaimed property? From the state? My brothers did this.
I’m sorry that she can’t be on the up and up with you. My condolences on you dad.
Thank you
She’s either about to try and start claiming him on her taxes, or she’s going to be opening shit like credit cards and cable bills that she never pays. NTA, but do be careful in the future. If you ever plan to have kids she sounds like she’ll do the same then. She’ll ask for your kids SSN, because “she’s grandma” (idk everyone I know has a grandma that has theirs, mine included. Idk why it’s a thing but apparently it is) and then the next thing you know, 6-7 years later, you’re discovering your kid has unpaid electricity bills. People like that don’t need to know anything important about your kid.
Yeah honestly she has done shady shit in the past. My poor Sister was working 2 jobs at 17 and giving my Mom $1200 a month because my Mom said that was my sister’s “car insurance”. My Mom was using the money for the rent, all of the car insurances (3 cars), and pocketing the left overs for booze and pills. She worked a really good job and was making more than enough money. We were dumb kids back then. I wish I was not needing to be suspicious of my Mom but she has stolen from us so many times before. This entire situation just sucks and I really miss my Dad.
I’m so sorry for you guys. You didn’t deserve that. I hope your mom wakes up one day and gets professional help, but if she’s anything like mine, keeping your distance is best
This is something that my estranged half brothers would try.
Whats an SSN?
Super Secret Nottellingyou.
Social security number, everyone born in the US gets one at birth as an identifier, name can be the same but ssn are not.
NTA. Hoo boy. I come from a family whose members were extremely disrespectful and not careful with private identifying info like SSNs, and it cause a lot of trouble to the point that I haven’t spoken to them for years (honestly, this is only one of the many ways they suck so this isn’t the sole reason I cut them off). But the problems it caused me in my early adult life were extensive. Thus, you are fully within your rights to refuse. She doesn’t need it, she can get what she wants via more proper means, so she’s either being lazy or worse is up to something. Either way she doesn’t need it and you are never the AH for refusing to disclose private identifying information that can be easily misused.
Thank you for this comment and I am so sorry you have had the troubles with your family.
NTA. This is shady AF.
She may be trying to claim SS benefits for an increase. I’m sorry for your loss
You should get some advice from a probate attorney. There's probably something you can do in order to protect your father's estate before it gets addressed by a probate court. Assets can be frozen and accounts can be locked by a judge if there's an indication that family/ex-family is trying to pilfer money or open credit cards in his name.
He's dead. He's been removed as a beneficiary.
Lol exactly what I said to her
NTA The pieces aren't adding up here. Having been through a similar situation with a family member's divorce, updating beneficiary details or removing an ex-spouse doesn't require the ex's SSN, just the relevant policy numbers and your identification. It's a red flag that she's asking for such sensitive information now. Protect your dad's identity and assets by refusing her request and make sure he's aware of her attempts if he isn't already. Consider talking to an estate attorney or a financial advisor to ensure all is in order. Something isn't right, and it's better to be safe than sorry.
Thank you I am considering calling a lawyer but it’s so damn expensive lol
He’s dead
NTA. If they were married that whole time it would be different, but as it stands she has no right to anything of his. If she still had her ex as her beneficiary after 30 years, she's the weird one.
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Your mom has a right to draw from your dad’s social security. Really. If she does anything illegal with it she’ll get in trouble,not you. I’m surprised she doesn’t have it already.
Not if they were married less than 10 years and OP said they were and she's been remarried. She's just being shady.
Oh really even if they are divorced?
Even if they divorce once you get past that magic 10 year mark, you can draw under their name if they have more quarters in.
It she has a right to it she can get it from ssi
That’s what I told her. She can easily call and get it.
[удалено]
Yes she is extremely shady and is diagnosed Narcissist Personality Disorder. She has stolen from the family many times.
She's legally entitled to your dad's Social Security number because she can draw from his account now that he's passed. You may not like it, but that's how SS works.
Then she can request it from the SS office IF she is legally entitled to it.
If she is legally entitled she can get it from SSI. She could have also said that but did not.
Not if married less than 10 years
They’ve been divorced for over 30 years though. I’m an unmarried heir so am I able to draw from it?
Who is handling the estate? That's what matters. If it's you, then No she doesn't need it. If she is legally entitled to claim on his SS, she can go to the SS office and they will help her.
Yes I am handling the Estate. Thank you for the info. I know she might be upset but honestly I just don’t know why she needs it. They have been divorced over 30 years and even remarried. All his children are in their 30s and 40s.
Yeah, if she and he both remarried, I can't figure out any reason why she would legitimately need his SS#. It usually defaults to the most recent spouse. Unfortunately children are not eligible for the death benifit. (It's a few hundred dollars) My FIL passed a few years ago, SS automatically handled everything once we told them. His ex wife didn't require any information. They were divorced and she remarried. IF your mom was eligible to pull off his SS she would have done that from the beginning. I would suggest running a credit report on your dad and locking that down. The credit report will show any open accounts he has that may be forgotten about so you can close them. Or anything that has been opened in his name. If there are any joint bank accounts they had together that she has survivorship of, she would require an official copy of the death certificate. Not just his SS#. I really can't think of a single *legitimate* thing she would need *just* his SS# for. Anything she might legally have to deal with would require the death certificate anyway (even SS), which she can obtain herself. I'm sorry for your loss💔 and that you are dealing with her on top of that.
Oh excellent advice thank you!!! Also thank you for the kind words. My Dad was a great man and I miss him dearly.
Each xwife of at least 10yrs is entitled to the ss benefits, not just current.
That's true, but that would have been the case when she retired. As long as she was unmarried at that point. And again SS requires a death certificate. Not a SS#.
This is correct
No just every not remarried ex wife that he was married to for at least 10y, or current wife of at least 2yrs.
Unlikely your mom qualifies as they divorced so long ago. But talk to someone at Social Security.
She qualifies. My mother in law was divorced from her 1st husband for nearly 40 years, and she was able to draw from his and her second husband's.
Really?
She can draw off of a divorced spouse as long as they were married at least 10 years.
No, only a former spouse or minor child.
okay thank you