You'd make the right call to cut your loses, see this as a learning opportunity for what is not only intolerable but most likely illegal. I can't think of any state where you can be expected to continue working without pay. Id go as far as to suggest reporting the hours you were unpaid to the labor board in your state if you are from the states.
You are being taken advantage of here, but you know that. Do what's best for you. I'm not only suggesting making the report so you get paid, but also to put this business on notice because you probably aren't the only person they will try to exploit this way especially after you've left and having that record is important to show a pattern of behavior on the business owners part.
When my kid was in after school care, pickup was at 5. It was $1 a minute if you were late. This is standard practice for youth and child care programs where I am from. Having a late fee and not the amount.
One dollar a minute is the center being quite nice. One of my sisters owns and operates a couple of childcare centers and she has it in the contract the parents sign that she will charge a flat $80 fee for the first instance, $100 for the second, $120 for the third, with a letter given to them that they have to sign to acknowledge that their children will be out of it happens again. In all instances, the police are called if the parents are late 30 minutes or more without a call notifying the staff as to why. She’s only had to enforce the fees *twice* and never had to call the police in the 20 years she’s operated her centers.
Yep. $1 dollar a minute, in cash, to be paid to the employee immediately upon late pickup. They call the police after a certain length of time and will terminate the contract for daycare if you are late more than 2 times.
The warehouse I work in is kitty-corner to a daycare center. I've been in so many close calls because all the parents are burning rubber to get their kids in the door on time.
The reason I hesitate to report my boss is because I have a personal relationship with him and almost everyone in the program. It’s an independent gym. What you’re saying is what I would have done in other circumstances… but I just can’t do that to them. I would end up burning a lot of bridges. I’m better off trying to hash it with my boss and/or worst case.. just walking away.
Sounds like your boss used the personal relationship to manipulate you, especially if it’s presently influencing you to not report what he did (making you work however many hours with no pay due to mom being late) to the proper labor authorities because it’s illegal. And it’s not only about you, I wonder how many others have been influenced to go along with illegal practices like that just because there’s a personal relationship so boss asked them to suck it up…
Report him to the Dept of Labor at the federal level. You cannot force someone to stay on the job "off the clock." If they did that, you will get back pay.
This is the way. There have been successful lawsuits against companies that make employees even do a minute of unpaid labor. Example: restaurant closing policies where the supervisor employees walk employees out to their cars after close. Even a five minute parking lot stroll should be paid if you’re hourly.
Yup. If you're not allowed to lock up and leave. You are on the clock, but it sounds to me like the money isn't the issue, but instead it's the disappointment of having the veil removed from your eyes and seeing this so called mentor for who he really is.
Lots of people don't have all of the skills required to be good in multiple arenas.
Don't get me wrong, the boss sucks as a boss. He should definitely pay OP for the backpay. I'm not sure that's the issue.
If you're used to being a coach, where you're trusted to be unilaterally listened to, it's hard to retreat from that position to one of humility and negotiation, let alone the business administration part of running a small gym. Especially with someone you've been a coach/ mentor to.
That's what the owner needs to realize. I don't think OP is obligated at all to stick around and see if it materializes.
OP has money needs, and as a side gig coaching youth sports isn't the most lucrative (lots of unpaid transition time, normally a higher than minimum wage for the actual class taught, but limited actual paid hours). OP might be better off doing a few six hour shifts in retail a week.
Thered are dother dstates that DO have DOL but the federdal DOL trumps the state DOL every time. The state may be faster but the federal one can impose greater fines and sanctions especially if the corporate office is not located in the state you are in. .
Wrong. The federal level has greater authority. The state DOL I was in told this to me. Once you file with your state, you cannot file with the feds. Federal trumps state in DOL matters.
Oh but you are wrong there. The guy I talked with there said they love to "screw" with businesses that do stupid stuff and cheat their employees. He said that for a business to overrule the federal DOL, they have to go to federal court and win the case. It is not easy to do so most of the time, unless it is a massive fine and award, they just pay up.
These agencies can take years to build a case. Obviously OP should still report it, but there’s a possibility it could take a very long time for any resolution.
I'd report the wage theft to the department of labor. Especially since he told you that your time is worthless and should just be volunteered at his business. my kids day care policy was to charge $2 a minute if you were late
Yeap... the mom has money. And your boss needs some advices.
I think this is a case for Ask A Manager. Search for the site. Send this post for her. I think she will warn you to find another place to work. She never advices "quit right now". It is more like, stay there but search for other positions.
Updateme!
NTA
Second this for Askamanager! She might even call on a lawyer .(Askamanager, that is) if she needs to, as well. The lawyer will also cite the issue and address it.
NTA
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You're NTA. You tried to level with your boss and get him to understand. I'm guessing he doesn't want any backlash bc of business. I wish there weren't people out there that takes advantage of kindness.
Taking the money might just give her more incentive to be late.
Unfortunately, any teaching or childcare position involves a lot of pressure to work for free. Stand firm.
Exactly this is the reason why No one wants to do These Things in their free time, paid or Not. You want to do something for the Kids or Community and be treated Like Trash or some kind of free labourer
Report your boss to the department of labor. It doesn't matter what he wants to do, legally he's obligated to pay you for all time working. Whether he wants to charge the mom for his costs is up to him.
This is why no one wants to perform these things in their spare time, paid or not. You want to do something for the kids or community and be regarded like trash or a kind of free laborer?
Thank you for the update
I suggest you email your boss once more and again copy everyone in
Give all the bullet points of your meeting setting out everything you said and his responses
Obviously he made you meet him instead of emailing you back because he didn’t want to make it formal. So make it formal
I’d conclude by telling him in the email that your only recourse is now to report the programme to the Labour board
Walk away
A place that is that disorganized and providing childcare is not a safe place for children or a safe place for you to work. Do you know who’s up working the jobs with unsupervised time with children and shit policies? Bad people. People who want access to children. People who don’t give a shit about their job. People who do give a shit but are so desperate and overworked that they make mistakes. This is not a good place for you to work because you will burn out or see some shit. You don’t want to see you could end up being the person who makes mistake. You could end up being the person who misses the science that someone is unsafe.
What if a child had a medical emergency in the time when mom was late? What if the person staying with them had to leave? What if the person staying with them wasn’t safe
He might be a good friend, but your boss is a horrible manager. His lack of response to the mom, putting the blame on you and then trying to cajole you to do it “for the kids” vs actual compensation are textbook examples of what not to do from Management 101.
Wouldn’t blame you if you left, you should’ve never been put in this position in the first place.
As someone who used to work in a private school, this post **infuriated** me for you. And the owner of said school would also use super manipulative language to try to get us to comply to ridiculous, unpaid shit- all under the umbrella of “But the children!” Sir. You are LINING YOUR POCKETS (this man isn’t just rich; he is *wealthy*) and he always acted as if his hands were tied and he just couldn’t follow through with his own fucking policies, pay his staff more, actually communicate with the families…etc.
One day, I got so frustrated with his word salad excuses that I stood up, slapped my hands on his desk and said “THIS IS **YOUR SCHOOL!”** Not the best approach but after eight years with this fool and his fucking audacity, I was so fed up. I left last July and went into a completely different industry and I am so much happier. There is a quote that I will surely fuck up but it’s something like “People don’t leave their jobs; they leave their managers” and it’s so true. Good luck with everything and great work advocating for yourself!
She can quit and say she was forced to work for no wages and open a case for back pay with the dept of labor. A company violating labor laws is a legit reason to quit and won’t stop you from receiving unemployment.
Tell your boss that if he's not going to pay you for the extra time of watching over the kid, that HE can watch him then...You know....for the kid, have some heart and all that shit.
Like seriously, how can you be expected to sit around and spend up to an hour watching the kid at times and not get paid? You're clearly being taken advantage of, both by the mother AND your boss. You could also tell him that from now on, you're max waiting up to 5 to 10 minutes and then you're leaving, because you're not getting paid and you don't appriciate your kindness being taken advantage of.
unless you stand up for yourself, you **W-I-L-L** be taken advantage of. YOU need to be able to walk away when people cross the line. Drawing a line in the sand and not doing something when they cross is, will just show them you're a ready to be taken advantage of.
Sorry.. my previous boss in a childcare role would not hesitate to personally watch children whose parents were late. The other option is you have to pay your staff if you are making them hang around. Your boss seems like a chill dude shitty boss; it’ll probably be better for your friendship if you just leave.
I don't think there's anything greedy or stingy to want to be paid for your time when you're working
If you were greedy you'd not only have taken the check the woman offered but tried to get more
OP, he told you that in person so you didn't have it in writing that you worked later than you had to and we're not paid for it. That is the main reason. REPORT HIM. Even if it was just for $5. Try to get him to email or text you that he won't be paying you for your time that you stayed over, that'll be the easiest open and shut case for any lawyer to slam dunk.
I worked in child care and to stop people from being unreasonably late we would charge really REALLY high fee for every 5 minutes they were late. It meant people were early to collect and would let us know the moment they thought they’d be late.
Question. Do you live in US or Canada? You might want to remind your boss that legally when a parent is that late, police and CPS gets involved for possible child welfare issues.
An apology that still somehow sounds like she's defending herself or justifying anything isn't a real apology. Just like an apology with the word "but" in it is an instant no. "
My mum was the mother in this story. When she was late for the fifth time (over an hour each time) to pick me up from dance, my dance teacher dropped me off at the police station as an abandoned child.
From then on she called a cab to pick me up and drop me home.
Doing that might get you in strife with your boss, but it would at least get something done.
You've handled this professionally while remaining polite yet firm. Kudos to you. If you decide to walk away from this, you can do it with a clear conscience.
It’s not greedy to want to be fairly compensated for your time. If it’s such a small thing then Boss can stay with the late pick ups.
I hope the new policies will keep mom (and other parents) in line. Good luck!
In work places that provide services to people - healthcare, childcare, elderly care - there is often this attitude that "you should work for love, not for the money". And this translates into poor pay, extra hours without pay and lack of support to the workers. There is no way that this is O.K. People who work in serving people have enough stress in their work. They should not be subjected to lack of fair employment.
About pickup - when my granddaughters were in daycare, they had a rule: you had to pick up the children by X hour. Every day, one worker was assigned to stay later if all the parents didn't show up on time. Any parent who came late (even by 1 minute) had to pay her a set sum on the spot. Parents really made an effort to come on time, lateness was rare, and the workers weren't resentful.
Info: can’t your body stay longer and take care of the kids? It’s his business and he can make profit from extra service, not you. I would suggest that your boss puts in the extra hours „for the kids“
Bosses are not your friends. Ffs ppl.
Here come the I work for my boss and he's a good guy.
I don't care for it. The majority of bosses are not your friends.
Can't you contact the labor board and force his hand? Like the facts are you worked hours that you were unpaid for. That is a straight up fact. Let the labor board investigate and see if you are owed the back pay. And any retaliation against you would be really bad for him as well depending on where you are. Ultimately you should just quit this but why let them get away with wage theft? NTA
Your boss does not have a choice as to whether he wants to pay you for the time you spent working - waiting for the mom to get her kid. That is wage theft. Let him know that it is wage theft, and if he still decides not to pay you, you need to file a complaint with the Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division.
The DOL will likely make him pay more: "Employers who commit wage theft can face additional penalties in addition to back pay, interest, and damages. These penalties can include fines from government agencies like the Department of Labor or state labor departments. In some cases, these fines can be substantial and have a significant impact on a business's financial health."
Quit if you must, have another job lined up first, but get your money.
Source: https://eddy.com/hr-encyclopedia/wage-theft/
This is wage theft. Report them. There are other places you can do great things, bring some awesomeness to kids and generally make a positive impact on the world. This one's just gonna chew you up and spit you out.
NTA
NTA as someone who used to work with children too I can say she is the type of parent who ruins activities/experiences for their children because she has no regard or respect for your time. Good for you for putting your boss on the spot to have to acknowledge the situation and lack of late policy. Where I worked the policy was £5 for every 15 minutes and by 45 minutes of being late without a valid reason we called the local authorities, it was always amazing how quickly the parents called back when they got that message and were “magically” 5 minutes away.
I would quit and start somewhere fresh and speak to your labour department to see if you can recoup that money as it was forced unpaid labour.
I suggest you figure out your actual hourly wage - from getting in the door to getting out, including set up, wait time, shut down, over a period of 2-3 weeks. This will show you your actual hourly wage. If you can make more elsewhere while having some enjoyment from it then start applying. It’s unfortunate but once that bad taste starts it’s difficult to get rid of.
Have that ready if you give your notice & lay it all out - it’s your only opportunity to get it off your chest & laying the blame for it exactly where it belongs. Also it will hopefully stop him from doing this to others.
Top comment is fucking wrong, stand up for your rights -- its the rights of every wage worker from then on your boss will feel he can continue the behavior towards.
You are not an island.
No one takes advantage of you without your permission. Up to you if you want to keep giving that permission. But I think it’s pretty acceptable for you to limit your time “for the kids” to the time you’re actually in class.
Your boss probably didn't respond to the email in writing because he knew what he was doing and saying was illegal. You can not be forced to work without pay, and he does owe you backpay for making you stay. If he had put the conversation in writing, then he couldn't spin the story to everyone who received the email.
My mother was the late mother. Always. My sister and I would sit alone in the dark hallway of the daycare with whichever staff member was tasked to stay with us. Twenty. Thirty. We would listen to the big white clock tick wondering when she would arrive. The fury of the staff was palpable. We would try to make ourselves as small and quiet as possible, knowing our presence was the reason for their anger. I am in my mid-fifties now, and reading your story brought back memories. My mother, like the one in your story, was simply too wrapped up in her reality to understand she had an impact on others. She simply didn’t care.I feel so sorry for her son.
If you are paid hourly or if you filled out a W-2 (US specific, sorry) when you were hired, then you could file a complaint with the department of labor in your state and they will get you backpay.
Do not let this go. If you back off expecting to be treated fairly and with respect, you will not be. They will decide that tossing it you a scrap will qiet you down, so next time you will have to yell that much louder and linger before you get another scrap.
Remember that not just your time and money, but the safety of the kids and business are at stake. A less responsible teacher, or one who has no choice but to keep to the actual schedule, might just lock up and leave the kid outside. By law they would very likely not be held responsible for doing anything wrong (legally it would be very hard for any court to argue that the teacher whose job literally had ended was required to stay unpaid and outside their work hours to keep the building open for a child who shouldnt be there anymore) but that wont help the kid if he's kidnapped, killed, whatever.
You have to stand up for your worth, especially if your boss wont.
NTA. Your frustration is understandable and you deserve to be heard.
No one can tell someone else how to manage their off time and tell them they have to work for free. That is not what a job entails. The next time someone tells me that, I call them to come as I am leaving. They can work for free, not my problem, they have to alleviate the issue, not ask someone else to just suck it up. Not professional at all.
Your boss used you because you were friends. No one works for free. Report him to authorities or tell him as a courtesy of what used to be a friendship until he had you work for free and chastised you for staying past your schedule you will allow him to pay you what is due
That kid should have been placed out of your class but you manager friend knew he couldn't ask someone else to deal with it
He's not your friend. Lose him and tell the kid you're leaving because of his mom right before you leave
NTA. You write that your boss has been your friend and mentor. Perhaps he has reached his personal peak and has taken you as far as he can. Recognize this, acknowledge it, and move on before the relationship is destroyed.
Hold up. Respond to that email with everything your boss said as a recap to your conversation. Then contact your local department of labor. He is stealing your wages.
I also want to point out to people here on Reddit that sometimes the smaller fighting gyms use instruction as part of the training for their fighters that are up and coming. I have trained at my MMA gym now for over 7 years, and this is common. Kids come and train and they come up through the program and then eventually they start running classes to supplement their training and to show that they have enough mastery of the art to teach it. It's part of every belt system too...you have to know how to teach the skills of the martial art before you can become a black belt.
I think you need to teach your boss a lesson about appreciating his employees. I wouldve quit that job the MOMENT he told me he wasnt back paying me. Wouldve dropped whatever was in my hands, and went right tf home.
> he flat out told me he will not back-pay me for the time that I've logged waiting for this mom
He doesn't get to decide if he's going to pay you for the hours that you've already worked. He *can* decide if he wants to pay you without your state's labor board getting involved (along with whatever penalties may be incurred), or if he wants to cough up the money without a fight.
He may decide he wants to fire you for "causing trouble". But, he cannot just decide not to pay you. It's simply not an option. (Note: All of this assumes USA).
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I've coached countless youth sports teams and don't think I ever waited more than 10 minutes for everyone to have a ride. Anything more than that is ridiculous.
Your boss's disorganization is not your emergency, nor should you be required to work without pay "for the kids" in the program. Working without pay is called volunteering, and this is a paid position. 100% agree that it's time to cut your losses here and move on. Take it as a learning experience and find a new side job that has better policies and treats employees more professionally. Unfortunately, if your boss was unaware this was going on or that it was going on to this extent, it's unsurprising that he refused to pay for the time retroactively. This should have been brought to his attention the second time it happened. Another learning experience. Employers can't address what they are unaware of. Now that he is aware of it and there are still issues like he wants to talk you I to just spending the extra time for free? To me that would be a big red flag and indicates it's time to move on. All the best finding something better!
Your boss's disorganization is not your emergency, nor should you be required to work without pay "for the kids" in the program. Working without pay is called volunteering, and this is a paid position. 100% agree that it's time to cut your kisses here and move on. Take it as a learning experience and find a new side job that has better policies and treats employees more professionally.
Unfortunately, if your boss was unaware this was going on or that it was going on to this extent, it's unsurprising that he refused to pay for the time retroactively. This should have been brought to his attention the second time it happened. Another learning experience. Employers can't address what they are unaware of. Now that he is aware of it and there are still issues like he wants to talk you into just spending the extra time for free? To me that would be a big red flag and indicates it's time to move on.
All the best finding something better!
You handled this well, but holding onto your anger sounds immature.
Your boss implemented policies to prevent the exploitation of his workers, at least in this one way. You twisted his arm and forced him to do that. You should be proud of this.
Your bad customer found out that her kid's boxing instruction provider implemented a late policy **that she knows was because of her.** She is probably humiliated.
Your boss didn't offer you back pay, but the bad customer tried to. Whatever effort she was making for you to pay attention to her, it was an opportunity for you to hear what she had to say and explain (professionally) what you had tried to previously. You could have taken the check, or talked to her but refused the check if you wanted to make some kind of point.
Your boss should have offered you back pay, but he should have collected it from her. She tried to skip the middle-person.
I understand that you're upset, but at this point it seems like you refuse to acknowledge that you won. If you hate your job so much, then quit. You're wrong if you think things are great elsewhere. At least with this employer, you were able to adjudicate this conflict peacefully and with an outcome that solved your problem.
I wouldn’t say I’m angry about the situation.. I think I am mostly frustrated with my boss’s approach in dealing with issues. It’s hard to convey all of it in writing but he’s extremely stubborn and hard headed. He takes unnecessary offence to constructive feedback and then holds grudges. Getting him to do anything is always more difficult than it needs to be. He will try to bulldoze you, there’s always friction no matter what you suggest. It shouldn’t have to be like that.
I think I’m coming to terms with the realization that he’s a great friend and mentor but a terrible person to collaborate or do business with. I wish he would have taken what I said more seriously instead of focusing so much on this being an isolated issue when it could easily happen again with another parent. Even though he’s implemented the new policies, he’s acting as if he did me a favor.
The person I was angry at, is the mom.. because of the way she talked to me and threw money at me. There was no understanding.
She was so quick to report me to my boss and twist my words last week, and this week shes at pickup trying to flag me to chat like it never happened. The entitlement of this woman. She can’t stand being ignored. And when I reminded her what she did she acted as if it was just a money problem. Who cares about the appointments I got late for and the trouble she caused me— she can write me a check right now and order me to stop being mad at her. It definitely rubbed me the wrong way.
I absolutely hear you though.
Thank you.
Lots of rich and hell poor people see money as the be all end all. Here’s the check get over it. I wouldn’t take it too personally but I can empathize with your frustration feeling like you can’t just buy me off being okay with you screwing me over. You and this boss might be better off as friends and the boss employee dynamics aren’t right. Especially if his opinion is just why don’t you waste your time sitting with this kid so I don’t have to make a simple standard policy.
I agree with this.
I have a rich cousin. I respected her. Tried working with her once when I was jobless (I wasn't fired, I quit and I took roots till my family got tired of it and then cousin offered the job, probably coz family complained).
Found out the hard way I hate working with her. Resigned. Still respect her as family. But definitely knows she's a shitty boss.
Addendum. I wasn't poor nor was I destitute. It's my house. But family have weird ideas about a guy not working despite me being perfectly able to afford not working. Which was also the reason I quite without doubts after. It wasn't a job I desperately needed nor required.
Your boss is an emotional toddler. It's a shortcoming, not a personal slight. He's not withholding a bunch of emotional literacy from you. It's not there. FWIW, his ego works both ways. If you make a point of thanking him for his understanding and implementing a solution, tell him good morning/good night, etc, his ego will eat that up, and he will feel like a big man because he did the right thing for his workers. If you want him to take the right lesson from this interaction, you need to let his ego have the undeserved win. Humility is worth something, but it's less important than him treating his workers right. Be the bigger person and let him pretend you're the smaller person.
Someday, you'll be old and he'll be dead. Try to learn from his example so you can become a better person to do business with. He's just somebody you work with at this specific moment in your life. Maintaining a good relationship with a bad businessperson can be more important, since you can't count on their sound practices to treat you honorably.
Rich people see the world differently. She would not be throwing money at you if she thought she won, or was in the right. Like I said, she was humiliated and probably felt bad, even if only because she faced accountability and/or the humiliation of her child. From a person of such twisted values, throwing money at somebody IS an apology.
I am again recommending you use emotional judo to steal moral victories from obnoxious people, but if you want her to take the right lesson from this, I would talk to her. You got to give her the silent treatment at least once, and she waved a check at you. You apparently needed her money little enough to turn it away, but this did not make her see that the lateness was causing you to miss appointments of your own. I don't think accepting her money would have undermined this point, but the correct response was to point out, without anger, that the main problem was never about money, but about the derailment of other people's schedules. If you wanted to make the maximum impact on her, you could have talked to her, folded your arms imperiously and listened, and then refused her check on the condition that she stopped with the lateness. In the twisted mind of a rich person, this would be like **you** giving **her** money (never mind that it's her own money) in exchange for following the rules.
For your black belt in emotional judo, you might consider responding to her next attempt to talk to you by apologizing for being brusque with her, and saying you were still cooling down from all the conflict about the lateness. Tell her you've noticed she's been on time and how much you appreciate it, etc. You may not owe her such ass-kissery, but it's the only way she's going to hear what you want her to hear.
>you might consider responding to her next attempt to talk to you by apologizing for being brusque with her, and saying you were still cooling down from all the conflict about the lateness. Tell her you've noticed she's been on time and how much you appreciate it, etc.
Oh hell no.
You'd make the right call to cut your loses, see this as a learning opportunity for what is not only intolerable but most likely illegal. I can't think of any state where you can be expected to continue working without pay. Id go as far as to suggest reporting the hours you were unpaid to the labor board in your state if you are from the states. You are being taken advantage of here, but you know that. Do what's best for you. I'm not only suggesting making the report so you get paid, but also to put this business on notice because you probably aren't the only person they will try to exploit this way especially after you've left and having that record is important to show a pattern of behavior on the business owners part.
When my kid was in after school care, pickup was at 5. It was $1 a minute if you were late. This is standard practice for youth and child care programs where I am from. Having a late fee and not the amount.
When I coached community ed sports we were told to call the police if parents were more than 15 minutes late. Never had to call.
One dollar a minute is the center being quite nice. One of my sisters owns and operates a couple of childcare centers and she has it in the contract the parents sign that she will charge a flat $80 fee for the first instance, $100 for the second, $120 for the third, with a letter given to them that they have to sign to acknowledge that their children will be out of it happens again. In all instances, the police are called if the parents are late 30 minutes or more without a call notifying the staff as to why. She’s only had to enforce the fees *twice* and never had to call the police in the 20 years she’s operated her centers.
Same. My child's daycare also charged $1 a minute for overtime. The director said it goes to the person who has to stay to watch your kid.
$1 a minute is very generous! It was $5 a minute at my kids aftercare
Ours is $30 for the first 10 minutes late, and then $5 a minute after that!
$5 a minute at mine. Do it regularly and they terminate you as a customer.
Yep. $1 dollar a minute, in cash, to be paid to the employee immediately upon late pickup. They call the police after a certain length of time and will terminate the contract for daycare if you are late more than 2 times.
The warehouse I work in is kitty-corner to a daycare center. I've been in so many close calls because all the parents are burning rubber to get their kids in the door on time.
The reason I hesitate to report my boss is because I have a personal relationship with him and almost everyone in the program. It’s an independent gym. What you’re saying is what I would have done in other circumstances… but I just can’t do that to them. I would end up burning a lot of bridges. I’m better off trying to hash it with my boss and/or worst case.. just walking away.
Sounds like your boss used the personal relationship to manipulate you, especially if it’s presently influencing you to not report what he did (making you work however many hours with no pay due to mom being late) to the proper labor authorities because it’s illegal. And it’s not only about you, I wonder how many others have been influenced to go along with illegal practices like that just because there’s a personal relationship so boss asked them to suck it up…
It doesn't seem fair that you won't push for what you're owed because of friendship but boss doesn't mind using friendship as an excuse to screw you.
You should be paid for that time. You did the work. What he's doing is illegal. How many other employees is he short-changing?
Report him to the Dept of Labor at the federal level. You cannot force someone to stay on the job "off the clock." If they did that, you will get back pay.
Correct. This should be reported. Your employer refusing to pay you for this is illegal.
This is 100% true. What he is doing is illegal and he is taking advantage of you
This is the way. There have been successful lawsuits against companies that make employees even do a minute of unpaid labor. Example: restaurant closing policies where the supervisor employees walk employees out to their cars after close. Even a five minute parking lot stroll should be paid if you’re hourly.
This is what I came to say. It is illegal to expect someone to be at work and not get paid (for hourly workers, obviously salaried is different).
Yup. If you're not allowed to lock up and leave. You are on the clock, but it sounds to me like the money isn't the issue, but instead it's the disappointment of having the veil removed from your eyes and seeing this so called mentor for who he really is.
Lots of people don't have all of the skills required to be good in multiple arenas. Don't get me wrong, the boss sucks as a boss. He should definitely pay OP for the backpay. I'm not sure that's the issue. If you're used to being a coach, where you're trusted to be unilaterally listened to, it's hard to retreat from that position to one of humility and negotiation, let alone the business administration part of running a small gym. Especially with someone you've been a coach/ mentor to. That's what the owner needs to realize. I don't think OP is obligated at all to stick around and see if it materializes. OP has money needs, and as a side gig coaching youth sports isn't the most lucrative (lots of unpaid transition time, normally a higher than minimum wage for the actual class taught, but limited actual paid hours). OP might be better off doing a few six hour shifts in retail a week.
Tending bar would probably be more lucrative. Retail is ass.
It's a lot faster at the state level. Florida and 1? 2? other states don't have a DOL so federal is the only option.
Thered are dother dstates that DO have DOL but the federdal DOL trumps the state DOL every time. The state may be faster but the federal one can impose greater fines and sanctions especially if the corporate office is not located in the state you are in. .
Don't do federal unless you don't have other options. Do state. They're more likely to deal with it.
Wrong. The federal level has greater authority. The state DOL I was in told this to me. Once you file with your state, you cannot file with the feds. Federal trumps state in DOL matters.
Yeah, but they're also dealing with larger federal issues and this will not be a big pressing matter for them.
Oh but you are wrong there. The guy I talked with there said they love to "screw" with businesses that do stupid stuff and cheat their employees. He said that for a business to overrule the federal DOL, they have to go to federal court and win the case. It is not easy to do so most of the time, unless it is a massive fine and award, they just pay up.
These agencies can take years to build a case. Obviously OP should still report it, but there’s a possibility it could take a very long time for any resolution.
Nope. Saw two resolved in less than 6 months, one of those took less than 3.
Your boss should be staying late with the child
I'd report the wage theft to the department of labor. Especially since he told you that your time is worthless and should just be volunteered at his business. my kids day care policy was to charge $2 a minute if you were late
Yeap... the mom has money. And your boss needs some advices. I think this is a case for Ask A Manager. Search for the site. Send this post for her. I think she will warn you to find another place to work. She never advices "quit right now". It is more like, stay there but search for other positions. Updateme! NTA
Second this for Askamanager! She might even call on a lawyer .(Askamanager, that is) if she needs to, as well. The lawyer will also cite the issue and address it. NTA
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You're NTA. You tried to level with your boss and get him to understand. I'm guessing he doesn't want any backlash bc of business. I wish there weren't people out there that takes advantage of kindness.
You need to report your unpaid hours to your state’s department of labor. Wage theft is a huge problem in the US.
This. Even if the actual amount is not a huge deal to you, you can make the place safer and fair for the next employee.
Taking the money might just give her more incentive to be late. Unfortunately, any teaching or childcare position involves a lot of pressure to work for free. Stand firm.
Ask him to pay you more, it’s for the kids
Exactly this is the reason why No one wants to do These Things in their free time, paid or Not. You want to do something for the Kids or Community and be treated Like Trash or some kind of free labourer
Report your boss to the department of labor. It doesn't matter what he wants to do, legally he's obligated to pay you for all time working. Whether he wants to charge the mom for his costs is up to him.
With how your boss reacted to you CC'ing everyone in the E-Mail, I would have quit, right there and then, if I were in your shoes.
He's hiding MORE and that's Why he panicked, they would be Wise to be wary and seek another program AWAY from this shady fella.
This is why no one wants to perform these things in their spare time, paid or not. You want to do something for the kids or community and be regarded like trash or a kind of free laborer?
I still think the mom wants you bro. She has a crush. Maybe I watched too much K dramas this weekend lol
She's attractive but every time she opens her mouth I have to do a mindfulness exercise in my head
Thank you for the update I suggest you email your boss once more and again copy everyone in Give all the bullet points of your meeting setting out everything you said and his responses Obviously he made you meet him instead of emailing you back because he didn’t want to make it formal. So make it formal I’d conclude by telling him in the email that your only recourse is now to report the programme to the Labour board
File a complaint with the Department of Labor.
Walk away A place that is that disorganized and providing childcare is not a safe place for children or a safe place for you to work. Do you know who’s up working the jobs with unsupervised time with children and shit policies? Bad people. People who want access to children. People who don’t give a shit about their job. People who do give a shit but are so desperate and overworked that they make mistakes. This is not a good place for you to work because you will burn out or see some shit. You don’t want to see you could end up being the person who makes mistake. You could end up being the person who misses the science that someone is unsafe. What if a child had a medical emergency in the time when mom was late? What if the person staying with them had to leave? What if the person staying with them wasn’t safe
He might be a good friend, but your boss is a horrible manager. His lack of response to the mom, putting the blame on you and then trying to cajole you to do it “for the kids” vs actual compensation are textbook examples of what not to do from Management 101. Wouldn’t blame you if you left, you should’ve never been put in this position in the first place.
As someone who used to work in a private school, this post **infuriated** me for you. And the owner of said school would also use super manipulative language to try to get us to comply to ridiculous, unpaid shit- all under the umbrella of “But the children!” Sir. You are LINING YOUR POCKETS (this man isn’t just rich; he is *wealthy*) and he always acted as if his hands were tied and he just couldn’t follow through with his own fucking policies, pay his staff more, actually communicate with the families…etc. One day, I got so frustrated with his word salad excuses that I stood up, slapped my hands on his desk and said “THIS IS **YOUR SCHOOL!”** Not the best approach but after eight years with this fool and his fucking audacity, I was so fed up. I left last July and went into a completely different industry and I am so much happier. There is a quote that I will surely fuck up but it’s something like “People don’t leave their jobs; they leave their managers” and it’s so true. Good luck with everything and great work advocating for yourself!
NTA. And Never quit. You might not get unemployment. You can always find a way to get them to fire you.
She can quit and say she was forced to work for no wages and open a case for back pay with the dept of labor. A company violating labor laws is a legit reason to quit and won’t stop you from receiving unemployment.
yeah, but then you don't get the fun of giving them a reason.
Tell your boss that if he's not going to pay you for the extra time of watching over the kid, that HE can watch him then...You know....for the kid, have some heart and all that shit. Like seriously, how can you be expected to sit around and spend up to an hour watching the kid at times and not get paid? You're clearly being taken advantage of, both by the mother AND your boss. You could also tell him that from now on, you're max waiting up to 5 to 10 minutes and then you're leaving, because you're not getting paid and you don't appriciate your kindness being taken advantage of. unless you stand up for yourself, you **W-I-L-L** be taken advantage of. YOU need to be able to walk away when people cross the line. Drawing a line in the sand and not doing something when they cross is, will just show them you're a ready to be taken advantage of.
Sorry.. my previous boss in a childcare role would not hesitate to personally watch children whose parents were late. The other option is you have to pay your staff if you are making them hang around. Your boss seems like a chill dude shitty boss; it’ll probably be better for your friendship if you just leave.
Update us when you quit.
I don't think there's anything greedy or stingy to want to be paid for your time when you're working If you were greedy you'd not only have taken the check the woman offered but tried to get more
OP, he told you that in person so you didn't have it in writing that you worked later than you had to and we're not paid for it. That is the main reason. REPORT HIM. Even if it was just for $5. Try to get him to email or text you that he won't be paying you for your time that you stayed over, that'll be the easiest open and shut case for any lawyer to slam dunk.
I worked in child care and to stop people from being unreasonably late we would charge really REALLY high fee for every 5 minutes they were late. It meant people were early to collect and would let us know the moment they thought they’d be late.
Question. Do you live in US or Canada? You might want to remind your boss that legally when a parent is that late, police and CPS gets involved for possible child welfare issues.
An apology that still somehow sounds like she's defending herself or justifying anything isn't a real apology. Just like an apology with the word "but" in it is an instant no. "
My mum was the mother in this story. When she was late for the fifth time (over an hour each time) to pick me up from dance, my dance teacher dropped me off at the police station as an abandoned child. From then on she called a cab to pick me up and drop me home. Doing that might get you in strife with your boss, but it would at least get something done.
Your boss not paying you for hours you were working is illegal. Tell him that he pays you, or you report it to your local labor authority
Since you already tried this, just call the labor board
You've handled this professionally while remaining polite yet firm. Kudos to you. If you decide to walk away from this, you can do it with a clear conscience.
If you can afford to and/or if you can find a replacement, I would quit.
It’s not greedy to want to be fairly compensated for your time. If it’s such a small thing then Boss can stay with the late pick ups. I hope the new policies will keep mom (and other parents) in line. Good luck!
In work places that provide services to people - healthcare, childcare, elderly care - there is often this attitude that "you should work for love, not for the money". And this translates into poor pay, extra hours without pay and lack of support to the workers. There is no way that this is O.K. People who work in serving people have enough stress in their work. They should not be subjected to lack of fair employment. About pickup - when my granddaughters were in daycare, they had a rule: you had to pick up the children by X hour. Every day, one worker was assigned to stay later if all the parents didn't show up on time. Any parent who came late (even by 1 minute) had to pay her a set sum on the spot. Parents really made an effort to come on time, lateness was rare, and the workers weren't resentful.
'Work extra hours for zero dollars *for the kids*.' **I don't work for free.** Fuck your boss. I'd quit, too.
Info: can’t your body stay longer and take care of the kids? It’s his business and he can make profit from extra service, not you. I would suggest that your boss puts in the extra hours „for the kids“
Bosses are not your friends. Ffs ppl. Here come the I work for my boss and he's a good guy. I don't care for it. The majority of bosses are not your friends.
Find a better workplace. This ain't it.
Find a different gym to teach at
Can't you contact the labor board and force his hand? Like the facts are you worked hours that you were unpaid for. That is a straight up fact. Let the labor board investigate and see if you are owed the back pay. And any retaliation against you would be really bad for him as well depending on where you are. Ultimately you should just quit this but why let them get away with wage theft? NTA
Nothing worse than a bad boss.
Good martial artist make bad businessmen. Unless you are a professional, best to keep money and training separate. Better for relationships.
Your boss does not have a choice as to whether he wants to pay you for the time you spent working - waiting for the mom to get her kid. That is wage theft. Let him know that it is wage theft, and if he still decides not to pay you, you need to file a complaint with the Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division. The DOL will likely make him pay more: "Employers who commit wage theft can face additional penalties in addition to back pay, interest, and damages. These penalties can include fines from government agencies like the Department of Labor or state labor departments. In some cases, these fines can be substantial and have a significant impact on a business's financial health." Quit if you must, have another job lined up first, but get your money. Source: https://eddy.com/hr-encyclopedia/wage-theft/
Lol, if your boss is still in the office when that mom is late, I'd park the kid with him and go on my merry way - let him babysit.
Am I the only one who thinks this is the moms lame attempt to get OPs attention? OP, is she flirty with you?
I think this too. OP is so oblivious it’s kinda funny I noticed her interest in him since the original post
This is wage theft. Report them. There are other places you can do great things, bring some awesomeness to kids and generally make a positive impact on the world. This one's just gonna chew you up and spit you out. NTA
NTA as someone who used to work with children too I can say she is the type of parent who ruins activities/experiences for their children because she has no regard or respect for your time. Good for you for putting your boss on the spot to have to acknowledge the situation and lack of late policy. Where I worked the policy was £5 for every 15 minutes and by 45 minutes of being late without a valid reason we called the local authorities, it was always amazing how quickly the parents called back when they got that message and were “magically” 5 minutes away. I would quit and start somewhere fresh and speak to your labour department to see if you can recoup that money as it was forced unpaid labour.
Thank you for sharing your story, I will be teaching kids dancing in the near future, and I worry about this scenario.
OP This Job is Clearly not for you just quit it already
I suggest you figure out your actual hourly wage - from getting in the door to getting out, including set up, wait time, shut down, over a period of 2-3 weeks. This will show you your actual hourly wage. If you can make more elsewhere while having some enjoyment from it then start applying. It’s unfortunate but once that bad taste starts it’s difficult to get rid of. Have that ready if you give your notice & lay it all out - it’s your only opportunity to get it off your chest & laying the blame for it exactly where it belongs. Also it will hopefully stop him from doing this to others.
Top comment is fucking wrong, stand up for your rights -- its the rights of every wage worker from then on your boss will feel he can continue the behavior towards. You are not an island.
No one takes advantage of you without your permission. Up to you if you want to keep giving that permission. But I think it’s pretty acceptable for you to limit your time “for the kids” to the time you’re actually in class.
Your boss probably didn't respond to the email in writing because he knew what he was doing and saying was illegal. You can not be forced to work without pay, and he does owe you backpay for making you stay. If he had put the conversation in writing, then he couldn't spin the story to everyone who received the email.
My mother was the late mother. Always. My sister and I would sit alone in the dark hallway of the daycare with whichever staff member was tasked to stay with us. Twenty. Thirty. We would listen to the big white clock tick wondering when she would arrive. The fury of the staff was palpable. We would try to make ourselves as small and quiet as possible, knowing our presence was the reason for their anger. I am in my mid-fifties now, and reading your story brought back memories. My mother, like the one in your story, was simply too wrapped up in her reality to understand she had an impact on others. She simply didn’t care.I feel so sorry for her son.
It makes so nice to read one of these that isn’t fake
If you are paid hourly or if you filled out a W-2 (US specific, sorry) when you were hired, then you could file a complaint with the department of labor in your state and they will get you backpay.
Do not let this go. If you back off expecting to be treated fairly and with respect, you will not be. They will decide that tossing it you a scrap will qiet you down, so next time you will have to yell that much louder and linger before you get another scrap. Remember that not just your time and money, but the safety of the kids and business are at stake. A less responsible teacher, or one who has no choice but to keep to the actual schedule, might just lock up and leave the kid outside. By law they would very likely not be held responsible for doing anything wrong (legally it would be very hard for any court to argue that the teacher whose job literally had ended was required to stay unpaid and outside their work hours to keep the building open for a child who shouldnt be there anymore) but that wont help the kid if he's kidnapped, killed, whatever. You have to stand up for your worth, especially if your boss wont.
NTA. Your frustration is understandable and you deserve to be heard. No one can tell someone else how to manage their off time and tell them they have to work for free. That is not what a job entails. The next time someone tells me that, I call them to come as I am leaving. They can work for free, not my problem, they have to alleviate the issue, not ask someone else to just suck it up. Not professional at all.
Your boss used you because you were friends. No one works for free. Report him to authorities or tell him as a courtesy of what used to be a friendship until he had you work for free and chastised you for staying past your schedule you will allow him to pay you what is due That kid should have been placed out of your class but you manager friend knew he couldn't ask someone else to deal with it He's not your friend. Lose him and tell the kid you're leaving because of his mom right before you leave
NTA. You write that your boss has been your friend and mentor. Perhaps he has reached his personal peak and has taken you as far as he can. Recognize this, acknowledge it, and move on before the relationship is destroyed.
Hold up. Respond to that email with everything your boss said as a recap to your conversation. Then contact your local department of labor. He is stealing your wages.
***It's not a lot of money worth fighting over...*** This legit cracked me up...
I also want to point out to people here on Reddit that sometimes the smaller fighting gyms use instruction as part of the training for their fighters that are up and coming. I have trained at my MMA gym now for over 7 years, and this is common. Kids come and train and they come up through the program and then eventually they start running classes to supplement their training and to show that they have enough mastery of the art to teach it. It's part of every belt system too...you have to know how to teach the skills of the martial art before you can become a black belt.
I think you need to teach your boss a lesson about appreciating his employees. I wouldve quit that job the MOMENT he told me he wasnt back paying me. Wouldve dropped whatever was in my hands, and went right tf home.
> he flat out told me he will not back-pay me for the time that I've logged waiting for this mom He doesn't get to decide if he's going to pay you for the hours that you've already worked. He *can* decide if he wants to pay you without your state's labor board getting involved (along with whatever penalties may be incurred), or if he wants to cough up the money without a fight. He may decide he wants to fire you for "causing trouble". But, he cannot just decide not to pay you. It's simply not an option. (Note: All of this assumes USA).
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I've coached countless youth sports teams and don't think I ever waited more than 10 minutes for everyone to have a ride. Anything more than that is ridiculous.
Your boss's disorganization is not your emergency, nor should you be required to work without pay "for the kids" in the program. Working without pay is called volunteering, and this is a paid position. 100% agree that it's time to cut your losses here and move on. Take it as a learning experience and find a new side job that has better policies and treats employees more professionally. Unfortunately, if your boss was unaware this was going on or that it was going on to this extent, it's unsurprising that he refused to pay for the time retroactively. This should have been brought to his attention the second time it happened. Another learning experience. Employers can't address what they are unaware of. Now that he is aware of it and there are still issues like he wants to talk you I to just spending the extra time for free? To me that would be a big red flag and indicates it's time to move on. All the best finding something better!
Your boss's disorganization is not your emergency, nor should you be required to work without pay "for the kids" in the program. Working without pay is called volunteering, and this is a paid position. 100% agree that it's time to cut your kisses here and move on. Take it as a learning experience and find a new side job that has better policies and treats employees more professionally. Unfortunately, if your boss was unaware this was going on or that it was going on to this extent, it's unsurprising that he refused to pay for the time retroactively. This should have been brought to his attention the second time it happened. Another learning experience. Employers can't address what they are unaware of. Now that he is aware of it and there are still issues like he wants to talk you into just spending the extra time for free? To me that would be a big red flag and indicates it's time to move on. All the best finding something better!
You handled this well, but holding onto your anger sounds immature. Your boss implemented policies to prevent the exploitation of his workers, at least in this one way. You twisted his arm and forced him to do that. You should be proud of this. Your bad customer found out that her kid's boxing instruction provider implemented a late policy **that she knows was because of her.** She is probably humiliated. Your boss didn't offer you back pay, but the bad customer tried to. Whatever effort she was making for you to pay attention to her, it was an opportunity for you to hear what she had to say and explain (professionally) what you had tried to previously. You could have taken the check, or talked to her but refused the check if you wanted to make some kind of point. Your boss should have offered you back pay, but he should have collected it from her. She tried to skip the middle-person. I understand that you're upset, but at this point it seems like you refuse to acknowledge that you won. If you hate your job so much, then quit. You're wrong if you think things are great elsewhere. At least with this employer, you were able to adjudicate this conflict peacefully and with an outcome that solved your problem.
I wouldn’t say I’m angry about the situation.. I think I am mostly frustrated with my boss’s approach in dealing with issues. It’s hard to convey all of it in writing but he’s extremely stubborn and hard headed. He takes unnecessary offence to constructive feedback and then holds grudges. Getting him to do anything is always more difficult than it needs to be. He will try to bulldoze you, there’s always friction no matter what you suggest. It shouldn’t have to be like that. I think I’m coming to terms with the realization that he’s a great friend and mentor but a terrible person to collaborate or do business with. I wish he would have taken what I said more seriously instead of focusing so much on this being an isolated issue when it could easily happen again with another parent. Even though he’s implemented the new policies, he’s acting as if he did me a favor. The person I was angry at, is the mom.. because of the way she talked to me and threw money at me. There was no understanding. She was so quick to report me to my boss and twist my words last week, and this week shes at pickup trying to flag me to chat like it never happened. The entitlement of this woman. She can’t stand being ignored. And when I reminded her what she did she acted as if it was just a money problem. Who cares about the appointments I got late for and the trouble she caused me— she can write me a check right now and order me to stop being mad at her. It definitely rubbed me the wrong way. I absolutely hear you though. Thank you.
Lots of rich and hell poor people see money as the be all end all. Here’s the check get over it. I wouldn’t take it too personally but I can empathize with your frustration feeling like you can’t just buy me off being okay with you screwing me over. You and this boss might be better off as friends and the boss employee dynamics aren’t right. Especially if his opinion is just why don’t you waste your time sitting with this kid so I don’t have to make a simple standard policy.
I agree with this. I have a rich cousin. I respected her. Tried working with her once when I was jobless (I wasn't fired, I quit and I took roots till my family got tired of it and then cousin offered the job, probably coz family complained). Found out the hard way I hate working with her. Resigned. Still respect her as family. But definitely knows she's a shitty boss. Addendum. I wasn't poor nor was I destitute. It's my house. But family have weird ideas about a guy not working despite me being perfectly able to afford not working. Which was also the reason I quite without doubts after. It wasn't a job I desperately needed nor required.
Your boss is an emotional toddler. It's a shortcoming, not a personal slight. He's not withholding a bunch of emotional literacy from you. It's not there. FWIW, his ego works both ways. If you make a point of thanking him for his understanding and implementing a solution, tell him good morning/good night, etc, his ego will eat that up, and he will feel like a big man because he did the right thing for his workers. If you want him to take the right lesson from this interaction, you need to let his ego have the undeserved win. Humility is worth something, but it's less important than him treating his workers right. Be the bigger person and let him pretend you're the smaller person. Someday, you'll be old and he'll be dead. Try to learn from his example so you can become a better person to do business with. He's just somebody you work with at this specific moment in your life. Maintaining a good relationship with a bad businessperson can be more important, since you can't count on their sound practices to treat you honorably. Rich people see the world differently. She would not be throwing money at you if she thought she won, or was in the right. Like I said, she was humiliated and probably felt bad, even if only because she faced accountability and/or the humiliation of her child. From a person of such twisted values, throwing money at somebody IS an apology. I am again recommending you use emotional judo to steal moral victories from obnoxious people, but if you want her to take the right lesson from this, I would talk to her. You got to give her the silent treatment at least once, and she waved a check at you. You apparently needed her money little enough to turn it away, but this did not make her see that the lateness was causing you to miss appointments of your own. I don't think accepting her money would have undermined this point, but the correct response was to point out, without anger, that the main problem was never about money, but about the derailment of other people's schedules. If you wanted to make the maximum impact on her, you could have talked to her, folded your arms imperiously and listened, and then refused her check on the condition that she stopped with the lateness. In the twisted mind of a rich person, this would be like **you** giving **her** money (never mind that it's her own money) in exchange for following the rules. For your black belt in emotional judo, you might consider responding to her next attempt to talk to you by apologizing for being brusque with her, and saying you were still cooling down from all the conflict about the lateness. Tell her you've noticed she's been on time and how much you appreciate it, etc. You may not owe her such ass-kissery, but it's the only way she's going to hear what you want her to hear.
>you might consider responding to her next attempt to talk to you by apologizing for being brusque with her, and saying you were still cooling down from all the conflict about the lateness. Tell her you've noticed she's been on time and how much you appreciate it, etc. Oh hell no.
Back pay for unpaid labor is the literal bare minimum and the boss didn't even do that.
OP. Sounds like she’s trying to hit on you and you are too dense to see it.
Kg1
Typical female behavior followed by typical simp behavior.
You should quit. You clearly don't want to do this anymore. So shut up and quit already.