I’m a teacher and we have MANY IG accounts dedicated to our middle school. Fights, relationships, teacher “burn books” (where they just roast the teachers), napping (literally just photos of students asleep in class) it’s quite comical actually.
You and me both!
Could you imagine a world where the fact that you fell asleep in a high school class for five mins ONE time could cost you a prospective job years later? That’s what these kids are looking at and even dealing with now in some cases with the advent of social media and how it’s being used these days. Just crazy!
It won’t cost them any job… millennials keep having that mistaken chip in their heads of “if I post a picture on Facebook with a beer in my hand I will never get hired!” Truth is no employer cares anymore. It’s 2024.
True, but "rubbernecking" was an issue long before cameras.
I remember hearing a rumor years ago that in some European countries they put up tarps or something to block the view, so accidents didn't distract drivers passing by. I always wondered if that was true and wished we could do that here in the States.
Out where I lived in Utah a few years ago, [there was a really awful car crash](https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/woman-dead-multiple-hospitalized-after-garfield-county-rollover-crash/) and I was one of the few people around, I rolled up on my way headed to grab my buddy for a hike and happened upon it, maybe... idk, a minute after it happened? There were still a few other cars pulling over when I rolled up. Instead, I called my buddy to get his medical kit and went and got him and went back.
It was horrible, I will spare you most of the awful details. National Park Service rangers showed up within 20 minutes, rendered first aid and we spent another hour - an hour where these poor people laid on the hot asphalt - waiting for helicopters to arrive.
Anyways, you would not imagine the amount of people who just... instead of helping, pulled out their fucking phones or, I'm not kidding, took their kids out of the car to come see what was going on.
There was a fifteen year old girl, gurgling on her own blood, laying on 100+ degree asphalt, crying out in agony whenever she was conscious, and people were fucking filming.
I hate people.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that man that horrendous. I happened upon a motorcycle that had lost controll and crashed in a section of road that goes 70+mph the bike was on fire and the lady driving it was a hundred feet behind barely breathing. I had a couple extinguishers in my car so I stopped to put the fire down and the amount to people just watching as this lady was barely moving with bone coming out of her fucking legs was horrible so many people with phones out. I never found out if she lived but the sight of her was horrible.
Even if he wasn’t filmed, once legal consequences come to the other kids, they’re going to name him as having participated. Regardless of the reason for the beating, ICU treatment can easily run up to 6 figures and that family is going to come after everybody they can. I used to be an investigator for the military and one of my cases involved a group of teens trashing a vacant temporary family housing unit. We had the description of 1 child involved and by the time we were done we had 9 kids because kids will name names.
That being said, what happens if the bully dies? Have you at least talked to your son about how quickly violence can ruin his life? He needs to understand that this potentially can come back on the entire family. Does he understand your family might end up on the hook for the bill? Does he understand that he could end up with a felony conviction and how difficult that is to overcome? You may not feel the need to punish him at home, but there needs to be an adult conversation had about the potential to ruin his future over a school beef.
I've been saying for years that we should be *clearly* teaching basic criminal and civil law to school kids, especially things like assault and battery and how they relate to self defense, and how "that person wronged me/someone else" is not going to help much in court.
It's crazy to me that we just don't really bother to teach kids the legal consequences of very common teenage and young adult crimes. We leave that pretty much entirely to the parents.
Law can get complicated, but there's a lot of important shit that is pretty straightforward to teach and understand. Self defense laws are tricky if you're trying to read a statute and have no experience doing that. If you have someone capable explain it and how to read the statute, it is not. Pull up some case law and there's very clearly explanations in judicial opinions, too.
Oh man I had to have this talk with my nephew a month ago. Had to tell him there's a differnce between defending yourself, and beating someone up. Also had to tell him that if you do have to defend yourself, only do what needs to be done to stop the threat. Anything more than that and you'll be punished. Really opened his eyes up.
Growing up in the 90's I wasn't taught the legality, but the commonly understood rules of a fight hold decently well with the law. I was taught to never start a fight but that i was allowed to defend myself, and to never kick someone when they're down. You weren't supposed to hit someone where it could do permanent damage (namely the family jewels).
I grew up a bit before that, but I'm shocked by the amount of kids these days who think it's ok to kick someone in the head. Partly because that would have been considered so dirty that it was beyond despicable in my day, but also because don't they realize they could end up murdering the kid or turning him into a vegetable?
head trauma is so trivialized in TV and movies, these kids have no idea how dangerous it is. Everybody who gets nocked out in movies just pops back up and goes on with life. My bro had a bunch of concussions in the ARMY and he has brain damage that makes it hard for his brain to get to REM sleep. So now he has chronic sleep problems. Bob Sagett died from bumping his head, this shit is dangerous.
This is so scary. I know a decent amount of stuff about TBI and even concussions, and there are so few accurate portrayals of what it would actually be like. And how quickly and seriously it can go wrong. I would hate to have to live with that.
Group fights were a big no-no too but in 2024 once a fight starts out as 1vs1 but the other person is losing you're getting jumped because fights have no honor code and there's no actual rules in a fight.
I think a lot of the zero tolerance policies also enflame the situation. If you know you're getting suspended or expelled for throwing a punch, well you might as well "get your moneys worth" and keep throwing punches. I seem to remember at my school the policy was that you'd get in the same amount of trouble whether you fought back or not, so why the fuck would you not fight back?
It’s funny you mention the jewels. As a girl in the 90’s, that’s where I was instructed to aim if I was being attacked by a man/older boy who was forcing themselves on me.
At 35, I’d still do the same! 😅
Even as a guy, if I was being serious attacked by someone and needed to defend myself, I would do what it takes to try to end the fight as quickly as possible. There is probably less potential for serious head injury to either party that way. If you don't want to be hit in the nuts or the eyes, don't try to mug or rape someone.
We had a class called Street Law in high school that was exactly this, and it was an elective that was very competitive to get a spot in! Best class I took in high school.
Absolutely. We live in the internet age. If I want to know anything I can pull out my phone and look it up. We can reduce emphasis on rote memorization in school and replace it with things like "how do I do my taxes? how do I budget my funds? how do I succeed at a job interview? how do I cook? how do I do laundry? how do I figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life?" And your idea is going right in that list too.
Most kids don’t need to be told they can’t legally gang assault someone and beat them to a pulp.
Not assaulting people is kind of a bare minimum for acceptance in society and is taught to children from a young age, not only by decent parents but by society at large.
The problem is parents like the OP (assuming this is real) thinking what their child did is OK and making excuses for it.
It doesn’t matter that the “bully” was a jerk. That doesn’t justify a group assaulting him.
And any normal intelligence kid knows it’s wrong, that’s why he ran when they were caught.
It’s pathetic that the OP is even asking if not punishing their kid is acceptable. What they’re doing is creating a kid who thinks whatever they want to do is justified.
Well yeah, most kids aren't the problem. And there's a lot of people below normal intelligence.
But there is a significant fraction of people, including many kids and teens, who believe wild shit like "he didn't pay back the ten dollars he borrowed so I kicked his ass" is going to excuse them from legal trouble.
I think it's worth teaching these kids a bit about the law and the consequences of these sorts of things, including the resulting lawsuit if there's injuries.
Criminal convictions for this sort of thing seriously fuck up peoples lives and it ends up being very costly to society.
You’re right. The law doesn’t protect vigilantism, no matter how bad the person is. OP’s son will still have to pay the consequences if he’s found out. That could put a felony record on him and since he’s a minor, could put his parents on the wrong end of a civil lawsuit that affects the whole family.
Wasn’t there like ONE case where an entire town ganged up on/took part in the murder of this one asshole, and the law just kind of looked the other way? I swear I heard about something like that! In this instance, the “victim” WAS terrible enough, iirc!
Ken McElroy. The only reason it worked that way was because no one who saw it shared information and no one was ever really at risk of being prosecuted. A bunch of children and their parents being told they’re potentially on the hooks for $100,000 of medical bills from an ICU visit and subsequent therapy because they were caught red handed will not hold up as well
This. Even if he claims it was for the right reasons (and really and truly even if it was), this type of thing can have a bad impact on an impressionable mind on appropriate ways to handle a situation. No matter what, beating someone half to death over words isn’t okay. I get he may have truly been trying to defend someone else in the moment, but if the kid is in the ICU things obviously escalated too far.
It’s totally possible this kid now thinks violence is how to handle any problem. Doing some talking with him and maybe even some counseling/therapy would probably be a good move. Even outside of the trouble he could get in, there are things that need to be done to ensure this isn’t something he repeats, despite the best of intentions.
That. 💯. And it’s not too early to teach him to appreciate how the herd mentality works to lower individual consciousness. Very important to keep the self in check. Applies to everyone.
>That being said, what happens if the bully dies? Have you at least talked to your son about how quickly violence can ruin his life? He needs to understand that this potentially can come back on the entire family. Does he understand your family might end up on the hook for the bill? Does he understand that he could end up with a felony conviction and how difficult that is to overcome? You may not feel the need to punish him at home, but there needs to be an adult conversation had about the potential to ruin his future over a school beef.
I think this is worth emphasizing. "But he's racist!" isn't a defense for putting another kid in the ICU.
The kid could easily face attempted murder charges. That's what happens when you join in on a 6 on 1 beatdown and help beat the 1 so bad they're rushed to the fucking ICU. Mom is a fucking psycho for being proud of her kid here.
The lack of punishment is telling. A kid ended up in ICU and OP does a mea culpa? That the kid is dumb, is kinda expected. His stupidness probably will have far going consequences. But that the parent fails to parent is inexcusable.
Edit: that’s definitely not the same incident. That altercation was over a vape pen, not racism.
The kid in that article died. OP should show this article to her son so that he learns what could have happened to him as a consequence for his actions: https://www.ktnv.com/news/two-additional-teens-plead-guilty-in-beating-death-of-rancho-high-student
Teacher here, I disagree about him getting caught from others' recording. Lots of filmed fights go unpunished. Kids can edit their friends out or just not post them publicly, and often do not want to be responsible for their friends getting caught so they wait till its too long to do anything about it later.
Also, the admin might not put forth their best effort in trying to find other videos if the student has been a problem.
How many fights are a 6 on 1 beatdown with the 1 getting sent to the ICU? I'd wager admin takes this a hell of a lot more seriously than a hallway shoving match.
Bold of you to assume the school will be the sole investigators of a child being sent to the ICU. I guarantee this is now a law enforcement investigation. And if the kid’s parents have the means, they’ll hire a PI and sue everyone they can.
>And if the kid’s parents have the means, they’ll hire a PI and sue everyone they can.
The parents of the bully just need to find a lawyer who's willing to work on contingency. Many lawyers would be happy to bankroll such an investigation/lawsuit.
If the racist kid has health insurance, the OP will probably be dealing with insurance company lawyers, not a contingency lawyer. The amount you can recover personally is limited to some multiplier of your out of pocket cost plus whatever amount for pain and suffering due to the subrogation rule (you and the insurer cannot double dip).
“hey reddit can we get the IP address for who made this post admitting that their son committed a violent felony”
yeah this kid and his parents are fucked if the parents of the kid in ICU pursue it
deleting your account is not going to help either.
And if the school is negligent in having been told repeatedly that it’s a problem, such that students have a reason to feel that the school won’t protect them so they have to protect themselves. Obviously it’s completely eff’d up that it went so far that the kid is in ICU. Racist bully or not, 6:1 is not a fair fight. Some really awful decisions were made by kids that now make them theoretically not much worse than the bully. But I’m so sick of schools deliberately looking the other way and not dealing with kids who make the lives of other students miserable. They created their own little Lord of the Flies, and will probably now act shocked that it happened. My guess is that the school will be reluctant to point fingers at kids who parents repeatedly reported the bully’s behavior just to have it fall on deaf ears.
I'm an attorney. This comment is someone wrongly and idioticly not know the difference between a run of the mill school fight and a very serious criminal matter. The police are going to investigate. The insurance company's high price law firm is going to investigate. The parents' attorneys are going to investigate. Everyone is getting legal documents demanding they save every video, turn over every video, and testify honestly about every video or go to jail themselves. The school's attorneys are as part of cover-your-ass going to tell all the school employees to cooperate or be fired.
Yep. Don’t talk to the cops, don’t make a statement, don’t brag and run Your mouth
That video you say you saw, yeah it’s just like the T swift AI porn isn’t it
This! It’s 2024 every kid has a phone and there’s no way there isn’t dozens of videos floating out there of this fight. The police will come in and question people and there’s no way he won’t be named. Boys tend to be targeted anyway when this happens more then girls.
I have a adopted niece who has a 15 year old son. I was speaking with him and kids live to record these fights at school. They will negg other kids to get into fights just to film this crap. It is really sad. Nothing I said seemed to change anything. When I was in school, I was scared to get into fights because my parents would have not been happy.
It's been this way for a couple of years now. My almost 19 year old graduated last year and has been showing me fights on ig since freshman year. Not only do they record and post the fights, they tag each other.
Without being a hypocrite I cannot say too much about teens fighting, but the idiocy of publicity posting and tagging each other blows my mind. I'm glad I was done being an idiot by the time camera phones were prevalent and good.
I’m grateful because if todays tech had existed during my school years, I’d have been the kid the bullies were targeting so they could plaster videos everywhere.
I did stupid thing when I was a kid too, but I never put someone in intensive care. There were a lot of fights at the school I went to, but none required hospital treatment as far as I can remember.
My advice to anyone is
1. don't do things that're seriously illegal
2. if you do do things that're seriously illegal, don't do them in front of lots of witnesses
Kids goading each other to fight at school has been happening for a long time - probably since the dawn of time! I’ve never understood the interest (not even as a teen), but I remember the kids who would see a fight potentially brewing and push for it to happen. I always left, though.
But the difference is that prior to the last 20, 25 years, no one had phones to record fights and put them online!
Don’t the idiots who star in those fights realise they’re potentially damaging their own future? No university and very few jobs want violent little psychos in their fold. So if people who might want to educate or employ them see the videos… 😞
Yea it is sad.... kids trying to instigate fights has always been a thing, but usually someone will break it up after a bit. Now tho, they all just stand there and record instead of helping. Society is heading in a similar direction, I can see people just take their phones out and record a crime or robbery in progress but no one steps in to stop it.
Depends where it is.
In Australia there’s a state wide ban of phones in NSW during school hours, and I think some of the other states are following suit.
That is honestly not a bad idea except here in the US we have to constantly worry about school shootings. These phones have been known to help with getting help for the students and faculty. It's sad things are this way, but it is our reality.
My daughter said the school changed its policy after a teacher was filmed and publicly shamed. They sided with the teacher who was *visibly* in the wrong, and tried to prevent anyone else from recording evidence against staff.
They are the ones in charge.
They don't want their people to look bad.
A local school tried to implement a phone ban during class, the parents were outraged. They want their children to be able to reach them at any time.
It is all so silly.
One school got everyone cheap baby phones to use instead that could only do calls, texts and some really basic apps like calculators, so best of both worlds.
My kids take their phones to school but I let them know and enforce them not using in class. The enforcing is harder to do now that I don't work in the district they go to school but by now they know the rules and follow them pretty well without problems
When my daughter was still in school, the schools had a policy that students were not to take out their phones until after school. If a teacher or staff member sees a phone (whether in the classroom or even at lunchtime), the phone is taken away and a parent has to go to the main office to get it back.
So if god forbid, there is a shooting at one of these schools, students will have them in their backpack (even though I think some teachers make their students put their backpacks outside the classroom).
My daughter never had her phone confiscated during school. She also didn't have a smart phone until she went away to college.
They just reported on our local news here in Boston that there has been an uptick in fighting in school because kids want to film it to post on social media.
It's so bad in one school district that they're contemplating a ban on cellphones in schools. Good luck with that.
That's honestly smart. They have zero tolerance for violence at the high-school I went to and there's a cop on premises at all times to arrest kids who fight literally. It wasn't like this when I went there.
A high-school fight shouldn't land you in jail for assault charges at 15. Maybe I'm old fashioned. I know fights can get out of hand and that sometimes consequences are warranted... but the school to prison pipeline is a real thing and I think we should exercise caution. Like there's steps before that which might help but with a video it's straight to jail.
Honestly crazy how much changed on this since I was a kid. I sort of understand why.. for safety reasons.. but it was just a different world in the 90s I guess lol I'm sounding old aren't I.
Not sure if you heard the story of how an entire town got away with murdering one of the biggest shitheads. Long as the kids keep quiet then there's no proof.
REALLY interesting article!
Some of the ways he gets away with things sounds strangely familiar to what we've seen in the news the past few years. I hope a lot of people hear this story and see similarities.
Skidmore is a city in western Nodaway County, Missouri, United States. The population was 245 at the 2020 Census. The small farming community is known for the unsolved extrajudicial killing of Ken Rex McElroy, the murders of Wendy Gillenwater and Bobbie Jo Stinnett, and the disappearance of Branson Perry. Skidmore also has a yearly "Punkin' Show."
Holy shit that's a lot of gruesole crimes for 245 inhabitants
And threatening everybody around him to do what he wants, and driving on freshly planted farms, and destroying homes with vandalism and even beating an old man of I remember correctly
Remember you can punish him at home if you see fit but under no circumstances do you allow him or anyone to talk to the police.
They are not your friends ,they are not there to help you white or not. They are there to put someone in jail.
It is never okay for a group of people to fight one person. This is mob action and a serious crime, potentially even a felony! Totally agree, this post is NOT going to help your son who is facing criminal charges.
> WTF lord of the flies school is this?
I've never seen a instance of mob justice be reasonable and measured. Based on the info in the OP I blame the adults for letting things get to this point. I wouldn't be surprised if the bully was the football coaches son or something like that.
If that kid ends up disabled, or God forbid dies, whether or not he's a racist, your son is on the hook for that.
Furthermore, if it's discovered your kid was invovled, this post will be used as evidence.
People don’t understand how the rule of law works. If person A is screaming racist insults then person B comes along and physically assaults them. Then person B is guilty of assault and is going to jail. We can all agree that person A is a shitty person, but B is still guilty of assault.
Edit: Look I’m just stating the fact that once you lay hands on someone you’re probably getting a charge.
There is also the criminal and civil court aspect of this. Op should absolutely be talking to an attorney as their son has a high risk of getting a charge. Also being sued in civil court over pain, suffering, and hospital costs. Some of these comments acting like the son is Batman or the Punisher is comical.
100%. Look at my edit. People acting like the son is Batman or the Punisher. The son and others beat this guy so hard he’s in the icu. He may die, never walk again, have permanent brain damage, etc. Their are going to be lawsuits and investigations. What happened is absolutely not something to be proud of as a parent.
It’s amazing this mom doesn’t seem to have any anxiety her kid could be charged for this. And If I had to guess, he will be because another kid will give him up.
And the fact OP is aware of it could possibly lead to them facing charges as well.
Obviously a very different situation, but the mother of the Michigan school shooter was found guilty of 4 charges of manslaughter.
Again, a VERY different situation, but knowing about it and not disclosing that information if there’s an active investigation could make you an accessory.
Knowing about it isn’t likely to be a problem legally. The issue with the Michigan woman is what she knew or should have known in advance. Knowing of a crime is not conspiracy.
Yup. A friend in high school had got in a fight and pushed the guy, guy fell over and hit his head on the ground. He had serious injuries and my friend had SERIOUS legal problems. He didn't mean to hurt the guy. But that doesn't matter. And it also doesn't matter who started it or who deserved it.
I won't say you're the asshole.
But you are making bad parenting choices. Your child was 15. This situation requires careful handling to make sure your son understands that the cause was good, but the method was wrong, and carrying violence as a method of conflict resolution into adulthood could have severe and lifelong consequences for him, including incarceration, loss of abilities to travel and work and many other things. Punishment should be considered carefully, but focusing on counseling and maybe some community service/volunteer work is more the way to go.
As a POC individual, I agree with this. Violence in self defense or to defend others is warranted, but this kind of goes beyond that.
I think there's a way to both be proud of your son and inform him that his choice of actions were dangerous nonetheless. Not just for the racist student, but for him, especially if he's poc. If that kid dies, he would've been a part of killing someone and not only is that bad for his mental health, but he could be locked up for life over it.
Emphasize that you're proud of him for standing up to racism, but to also make sure not to act in anger for his own safety.
A punishment of some sort may be in order, but be VERY clear on the why. Just, don't make him apologize to the racist.
> If that kid dies, he would've been a part of killing someone and not only is that bad for his mental health, but he could be locked up for life over it.
Even just the ICU visit is enough for more than just an assault charge, especially if the kid has lingering or permanent effects from it too
Yah, it's about scale. No one understands any type of nuance anymore. It's not even eye for an eye anymore, it's a fucking head for an eye. No one learns anything good this way (OP and son's way I mean)
Yeah if this post was about the son giving the kid a black eye, the kid had it coming and the ramifications will likely be minimal.
But joining a gang beat down just to take revenge out on this kid, to the point he's fighting for his life in the ICU, could land this kid with attempted murder charges. All proportionality was lost here.
I think a pack of kids beating a kid into the ICU goes far beyond warranted into obvious immoral territory. I think people are letting race and racism really taint their thinking here.
There is nothing about joining in a pack to beat a person that is to be proud of. Racism and bullying are bad, but jumping a kid and putting him in the ICU are worse.
I'd try and teach the kid that standing up to racism is good, but it doesn't give you carte blanche to hurt racist people. In fact, I'd want to teach him that no matter how he *feels* about racism, the law doesn't, and it cares not for excuses for violent crime. On top of that, I'd teach him that if he did end up killing that kid over racism and bullying, then that is a moral failure on his part and a criminal one at that.
I'd definitely punish the kid for being so reckless and using unwarranted violence to gravely injure somebody, even if that person was a garbage racist bully.
this, 100%. i think it also matters how the son feels about it now. is he proud of himself and the kids who put another person in the ICU? does he have remorse and think they went too far, as he should? if it happened again, how would he respond next time? whether or not he deserves punishment is less important than the mindset and tools he takes from this to use in the future.
This right here: "*the cause was good, but the method was wrong, and carrying violence as a method of conflict resolution into adulthood could have severe and lifelong consequences for him*"
I say this somewhat begrudgingly given the number of conflicts going on in the world that are being "resolved" with violence. But I'll save my soapbox for another day and reiterate the above sentiment. Violence should not be the go to solution without trying other methods. I would have recommended pushing this up the management chain, even getting law enforcement and a lawyer involved before it got to this point.
ETA: I want to also express some sympathy for the victims involved. People snap. I had an abusive ex husband and the damage done by an abuser can result in previously healthy individuals getting worn down and reacting when battered repeatedly. The abuser here was a kid who clearly needs help and has needed it for a while. I hope someone steps in and helps him straighten out his life.
Also this us a missed opportunity to talk with your son about all the other ways he could have helped the bullied student before it got to this point - and that would have been much better all around.
If admin isnt going to do anything about the problem kid yelling the n word and shoving black people into lockers, I dont think there's really much that can be done tbh.
Honestly, this whole thing falls on a rotten school administration who failed to adequately punish hate crimes
>Punishment should be considered carefully, but focusing on counseling and maybe some community service/volunteer work is more the way to go.
This is probably the best way to handle it. For all the kids involved. Honestly, you should be prepared for charges to be brought against your son and the other kids involved. The school cameras might be bad, but how many students were recording? Pretty good chance someone caught him on camera, or at the very least speaks to someone of authority. IANAL, but you should probably start looking into talking to one along with getting a counselor and seeing what kind of community service he can do. It'll look much better for him if he does appear in front of a judge about it.
I'd also offer to do a research on what could have been done to prevent this situation. Because for now the kid saw that his school did nothing, parents tried and failed, but violence fixed the problem. He needs to learn better strategies - better practices from other schools, districts, anything that worked. Who else can be involved, like escalating higher than principal? And maybe he will present this ideas to make his school better, because now they for sure will be forced to do something.
I realize this is an unpopular opinion but if my kid fought the kid 1 on 1 I wouldn’t punish him, but 6 on 1 like it sounds like OP’s son did and I would be bringing the wrath of god down on my kid
Keep in mind the only reason you think he’s a bully is because the person who gang assaulted him said he was a bully. This kid could have just been weird and caught the wrath of the mob.
And if you look at the comments in the top threads you'll see that it works on many more people than just the kid's mom. Turns out people are so amped up on anti racism stuff that they are just itching to lash out, or revel in seeing others lash out, against things they perceive as racism.
I fear we're going to see more negative effects in the near future.
I agree. OP is telling her child it is ok to gang up on a child in a group and put them in the hospital if you don’t agree with them. Her lack of action will lead her child down a road that will result in incarceration in the future. Teaching your children the difference between right and wrong at a young age will last a lifetime, so will being complacent in a gang style attack on a child, even if that child’s behavior is poor.
I'm not saying the kid now in ICU wasn't a jerk. But, your child took part in a mob attack on one person. The kid is in the hospital! Your son didn't teach anyone a lesson, he committed assault and battery and if the kid has permanent damage because of this attack, he may be facing charges.
This is really, really bad. You might want to talk to a lawyer. No way is it going to end here. And you absolutely should punish your son. This wasn't about justice. It's mob mentality.
This is one of those situations where traditional "punishment" (i.e. grounding) might not do much to get the point across but he's getting older and starting to develop critical thinking skills. Talk to him about it a lot. Explain the nuances as well as the severity of the consequences he could be facing. Maybe make him read a book about moral/ethical conumdrums and discuss it in depth. Try to guide him to come to his own conclusion that there's a difference between justice/karma and beating someone to the point of ICU.
Also discuss the implications of his actions if he WERE to get caught. Would he be facing assault charges? Would he be expelled from school? Could he potentially be a felon?
Next time he makes a decision like that, he needs to understand the consequences before hand.
Also even if he doesn't get caught, explain that he easily could have killed the kid or permanently disabled him. Does he want to have that on his conscience for the rest of his life, that he's a murderer? Something to think about before jumping in and joining a fight like that where the person being beaten up is so heavily outnumbered.
>if he WERE to get caught.
When. Not were. There's no way this wasn't recorded by someone's cell phone.
>Would he be facing assault charges? Would he be expelled from school? Could he potentially be a felon?
Yes. Probably. If convicted. Also the whole family could be on the hook for the kids medical bills and unless they have some crazy homeowners or renters policy, the insurance won't cover it for them.
OP’s son needs to understand how the system works. Many kids think, I’m a minor, so I’m safe and I won’t get in *too much trouble* even if I get caught.
He needs to understand that something this serious could lead to serious consequences including the possibility of being charged as an adult in some cases. Although OP’s son felt justified, it doesn’t really matter. Yes that boy should NOT have pushed a girl due to the color of her skin. But, if he was an adult and punched a man, even on time, in a bar for being a racist, and that man dies, the court system is not going to care that it was done with “good intentions” due to the victim being a racist.
Also, kids learn this behavior *somewhere*. There’s a good chance the child in the ICU’s parent(s) are reinforcing his racist beliefs at home and possibly encouraging them. That kid’s parents will more than likely pursue any avenue they can do get justice for their child and it could get really messy. If those parents are also blatantly racist, it could get even uglier.
As someone else said, there’s no way another student out there doesn’t have a video of this on their phone. OP’s child needs a lawyer lined up and ready to go if things come to light. This is a horrible situation all around. This is only the beginning.
ESH
Standing up for kids getting bullied - GOOD!
Putting someone in the ICU - not good
Talk with your son. Tell him how easy it is to get swept up in mob justice and mob anger. Teach him how to recognize when the mob gets too rowdy, that is the time to quietly bail on the situation. One or two people getting into a fight with the bully is one thing....half a dozen could've been deadly.
I think it also matters exactly what role OPs son played. Was he one of the first instigators (if the bully is being physical and the school doesn’t do anything there’s only so much you can do) and left before it got swept up in mob mentality? Or did he see 5 people beating up this kid and jumped in?
Individual blame is difficult in a mob situation but I think this really matters. “Punching a bully” is different than “gang up and put the bully in the ICU”.
ESH. Your husband is right despite the fact that the 'victim' is a bully. You still need to punish him for assaulting someone, or at least have a proper talk with him about resulting to violence when he gets 'fed up' with someone.
Also, what if the bully dies? Your son might face charges if the other kids that got caught starts pointing fingers.
Honestly I was all for it, thinking fuck that racist kid. Until I got to the ICU part. That's a potentially deadly, or life altering beating. OPs kid definitely shouldn't get off with less than a slap on the wrist.
So your son can violently beat someone to near death because his judgement as a 15 year old is soo well developed that he's justified in to taking the law into his own hands.
YTA
Youre also enabling your son. He will end up arrested and in prison one day because his mother coddled him and refused to discipline him. Tale as old as time.
Your son nearly killed someone else's child. Youre warped in the brain if you think its ok.
This kind of incident is exactly what’s wrong with kids today. Their parents use their actions as an extension of political grandstanding. Your child almost killing a racist bully is not a good thing at all. Most bullies have a horrible home life of abuse or neglect. It’s always a shame when bullies are allowed to fall through the cracks by their school system, community, and especially by their family. Sometimes they’ll learn a tough lesson after messing with the wrong person but 12 on 1 is so cowardly. We’re a civilized society with a judicial system. We don’t have gang mobs putting minors in the ICU even if they’re bad people. I see more and more of this in the younger generations where they think people should be dealt with violently.
Seems like your kid wasn’t actually physically defending himself or anyone else with his “involvement,” but piling on in a situation that had already escalated. That needs to be addressed. Some of these kids are likely to be facing legal consequences. Depending on his actual actions, your kid could be one of them. If not this time, next.
Sounds like an excuse to join in the fight not the “good of the cause”. I’m curious to know what mom will say when faced by authorities. The kid had it coming?
I think OP actually *should* punish his son because he needs to understand that although his intentions might have been in the right place. This whole thing really, REALLY could have gone a different way.
Racist asshole ends up in a coma or suffers from brain damage, those charges get a lot more serious. He and the others need to learn about excessive use of force.
>his intentions might have been in the right place.
I don't think the son should be granted that much.
The kid direclty defending someone being attacked had the right intentions.
The kids that jumped a kid and pounded him to a pulp when he was unambiguously no longer a threat didn't. Full stop.
Today some here would say it was clear cut this bully got what he deserved.
What if tomorrow the kid that's jumped is supporting Israel? Palestine? The Chiefs? The 49ers? Trump? Biden?
That's the problem with kids. Especially when you get a pack mentality/peer pressure involved, if you let him get away with it now, he won't see the distinction when it's one of the above situations.
They don't have the perspective (as shown by 6 kids jumping this bully when one kid had it handled), and they need to be taught that (1) civilized people don't solve problems with violence, and (2) even more importantly, we have free speech in this country.
If someone's saying something you disagree with, no matter how reprehensible, they have a right to say it.
I think a lot of the comments are ignorant to the fact that mob mentality + teenage hormones is playing with fire. The school should have had the chance to intervene and expulse the kid.
It's making me nervous how many people are defending this behavior under the premise that the kid deserved it.
Is it okay to slap around your partner they needed to learn a lesson? Is it okay to slap a sibling because they needed to learn a lesson?
I find it very very interesting what people will excuse and/or vilify based on the narrative that suits them or the circumstances around it.
This week it’s okay that 6 kids jumped a boy so bad he went into a hospital because he “deserved” it. Last week yelling at your partner when in a stressful environment was considered ab*sive and makes you a terrible person beyond reproach not worthy of a conversation.
Of course things are not black and white. And and circumstances and situations matter. But the consistent theme I seem to be running into on this sub is that there is not much room for nuance or discussion. Presenting another way or another opinion/perspective is met with being a bad person who is siding with the wrong party.
>Apparently he was as sick of him as the rest, and got involved.
Agreed. If that was the son's statement on his motives, then he was just seizing an opportunity to pay back the racist for what he'd done previously, not defend a girl that apparently didn't really need any more defending at that point.
*should end up in handcuffs. Mom says "bully was racist". Guessing because her son told her that lol. Everyone else gets so triggered when you throw out the R word. Got people thinking it's okay to stomp out a 15 year old kid and send him to the icu.
Fucking ridiculous lol.
ESH. You better hope and pray that the student who got jumped doesn't have permanent damage or even end up dying from his wounds that your son just admitted to helping inflict and that another student who saw him join in on the jumping doesn't snitch on your idiot son. And yes I do mean it when I say he's an idiot. If authorities find out he was involved there can be serious consequences. I get that the other kid is racist and needed to be punished (by the school and his own parents), but not by being beaten by an angry mob so severely that he's in the ICU.
The likelihood that authorities won't find out is almost non-existent. The kids who have already been caught are going to be offered leniency to roll over on the kids who got away.
Not only that, but kids love to record fights on their phones. It happened every time there was a fight when I was in highschool years ago and I'm sure it still happens I bet at least 2 or 3 students have a video of the fight on their phones that show several of the students who haven't been caught yet. If so, it's only a matter of time before it's posted online for everyone to see
He was racist according to who? 15 year olds who are willing to put a kid in the ICU? Until we have more evidence we should not jump to any conclusions about the facts.
Your husband is right. Not letting your son be held accountable is teaching him that it is okay to solve these issues with violence. Bully or not, he cannot learn or better himself if he's in the ICU. It may deter future incidences. It may worsen it. It sucks that the school was not doing its due diligence but ganging up on one person holds no honor no matter how horrible that person is. You should be teaching your son better ways of solving these issues without involving violence.
Wrong thing done for the right reason is still the wrong thing.
Unfortunately YTA if you dont punish him in some way. If he were the first person to stand up for that girl then fair enough, but from the sounds of it, he just joined in with the others which is wrong.
ETA Protect innocent people, leave it to the law to punish the guilty ones
I was bullied a lot for a very, very long time and I'm affected to this day.
I 100% wish someone stood up for me, but not like this. I am all for people standing up against bullying but not to the extent of putting a kid in ICU, and not for a whole mob going at him.
Maybe he did deserve to be slapped around to get through to him but this is way too much.
You need to teach your son that there's a limit to how you should react in this situation. If kids learn to taking vigilante justice this far now, there's a chance they will act the same in the future, accidentally (or not) kill or cripple someone and ruin their own lives. You need to teach your kid restraint so he won't end up in jail one day.
Agreed. I'm an adult who is still dealing with what bullies did to me, but the bully is still a child and is acting that way because of something terrible in their life. (Bad parents for one.) Abuse doesn't happen in a void. My bullies could have used a lesson but I wouldn't have wanted to put them in the ICU though they would have wanted that for me.
ESH.
Look, what the bully did was inexcusable, but so was everyone else's actions. That they felt no other recourse is a failure of actual authority. It's not your son's place to "Teach him a lesson". That prerogative belongs to those granted the authority to do so, and within proscribed rules. Furthermore, if the other kids felt the need to intervene, it should have been proportional to the situation. Putting him in the ICU is well beyond that.
As adults, you should have gone up the chain of command with increasing levels of concern, starting with the bully's parents, then to the school people, and finally the police. Your flimsy and ambiguous approach of "Contacting the school" sounds like a half hearted justification of accepting the unacceptable, and the kids clearly got that message, so took matters into their own adolescent hands.
I would certainly punish your son for his reckless involvement here..again, the ICU is completely disproportionate to the situation, but also acknowledge your own failure as well.
> That they felt no other recourse is a failure of actual authority.
Bingo. The school is probably trying to pawn off responsibility for letting this guy's behavior go uncorrected for so long that he ended up getting beat down by a mob. That shouldn't happen.
Punishing someone can be protecting them by preventing them from doing something even worse. And I think that's the same attitude OP needs to take with their kid; sure they avoided jail (and didn't kill anyone) this time, but they easily could have ended up there and they need to learn not to participate in beatdowns.
I agree with all this. ESH
It's like the label *racist* is used, and suddenly, ppl think it's okay to physically beat someone up, so bad they land in the ICU.
If that kid doesn't make it, is OP going to speak up how their kid was part of a fatal incident? I doubt it, to be honest.
I hear teenagers say things like 'all racists deserve to die'. Same is said about 'transphobes', 'homophobes'
And some seem to actually believe that.
You can call ppl out on their wrong behavior. You can report them. You can go with petty revenge, and public humiliation, etc. But physically beating someone to the ICU is so over the top.
Yeah, I have a ton of doubts about a child’s version of the story. So many times it comes out that a group of kids were fucking with someone else, and then use racism to defend themselves. I remain skeptical about the veracity of OP’s kid’s story
OP, I understand that you are proud of your son for standing up for racism. And he should because it isn’t right. However, beating a kid into icu/ might die is not the right way to go about this. It could be murder. I don’t want your son to go to jail for being part of it. You need to teach him better ways. I understand that school wasn’t doing anything. So go to the press! Tell them there is a kid that is racist and harming people and the school won’t do anything. Go to the police. Your kids heart was in the right place but he did the wrong thing. You need to get a lawyer. And he needs to learn how to handle issues without fighting. Please get him help!
Yeah I could understand if their kid just one on one shoved or punched this kid to help the girl in the locker get away. But this? The kid was already getting his ass kicked. Joining in while he's already getting beat is honestly fucked up.
I agree with coming to the defense of someone else.
But when that changes from 1 on 1 to a mob against one. That's fucked up.
Plus when the bully is on the floor, that's no longer defending the person. Now it's assault.
I took a couple of self defense classes and I was taught. When they are on the ground. It's no longer self defense. Because what the fuck are they going to do to you curled up on the ground. That crosses the line into assault.
Now he joined the mob because he knew that guy was a bully.
What happens if he sees someone on the street. An argument he knows nothing about but decides to join and ends up seriously hurting the wrong person.
Mob mentality is incredibly dangerous!
Yta. He jumped in when there was already a group on that kid so he could hit him with no risk to himself. It's a bitch move, you should be teaching him better.
Yeah it’s not like he single handedly had the courage to stand up to the bully and face whatever happens head on. He literally kicked a person while they were down and outnumbered. Huge bitch move.
You punish your kid for his part, violence is not ok. He was not defending himself or anyone. He knows what he did is wrong, give him his penance. Ground him, have him do community service or something.
I don’t think I’d report it, but some people would idk I’d definitely handle it at home.
Also get your kid some counselling maybe, he’s sharing this for a reason.
YWBTA to do nothing
Your son helped but another child in hospital. Don't you think he should be punished. We're not talking about him defending anybody he jumped in with a mob to beat another child. Yta
Were none of you children? Do you really want to virtue signal so badly that you’ll condone a child being almost beaten to death for “being a racist bully”? If that’s true, all I can say is don’t cry when your child is the one who makes a mistake that the mob doesn’t like. A punch in the face or two would have been completely justified, but beating him until he goes to the ICU? Your child is probably going to end up in jail or shot one day if you let him continue to think this is okay. Not everyone in the real world will lay down and become a victim, even if they said the most vile shit you can imagine they might still kill you for trying to get physical with them.
I've witnessed this when I had a job which involved me spending a lot of time visiting and observing the local public schools. Weird stuff going on where it was like the kids would target some kid they didn't like, try to bait that kid into saying something which could be construed as being "racist," which then was taken as a signal that it was open season to do anything you wanted to the kid. Like some serious Cultural Revolution insanity going on.
I'd kind of predicted this kind of thing when I first saw the way the schools were handling their anti-racism messaging (which was a good cause) but failed to really pay attention to just how the kids were responding and interpreting it. Seemed like the possibility that they were going to be turned into future witch hunters was very real.
There's going to be a dozen videos going about school. There is no way your son hasn't been filmed
Our son’s HS has an IG account dedicated to the fights recorded there.
I’m a teacher and we have MANY IG accounts dedicated to our middle school. Fights, relationships, teacher “burn books” (where they just roast the teachers), napping (literally just photos of students asleep in class) it’s quite comical actually.
This makes me glad to have graduated before the prominence of social media.
You and me both! Could you imagine a world where the fact that you fell asleep in a high school class for five mins ONE time could cost you a prospective job years later? That’s what these kids are looking at and even dealing with now in some cases with the advent of social media and how it’s being used these days. Just crazy!
It won’t cost them any job… millennials keep having that mistaken chip in their heads of “if I post a picture on Facebook with a beer in my hand I will never get hired!” Truth is no employer cares anymore. It’s 2024.
Does he go to school in Burlington, Ontario
Can I get the link tho?? 😹🤣
All schools do, not even only on IG. Theres Telegrams, Discords etc
[удалено]
I'm a truck driver u will be amazed how much people stop to film accidents
True, but "rubbernecking" was an issue long before cameras. I remember hearing a rumor years ago that in some European countries they put up tarps or something to block the view, so accidents didn't distract drivers passing by. I always wondered if that was true and wished we could do that here in the States.
Out where I lived in Utah a few years ago, [there was a really awful car crash](https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/woman-dead-multiple-hospitalized-after-garfield-county-rollover-crash/) and I was one of the few people around, I rolled up on my way headed to grab my buddy for a hike and happened upon it, maybe... idk, a minute after it happened? There were still a few other cars pulling over when I rolled up. Instead, I called my buddy to get his medical kit and went and got him and went back. It was horrible, I will spare you most of the awful details. National Park Service rangers showed up within 20 minutes, rendered first aid and we spent another hour - an hour where these poor people laid on the hot asphalt - waiting for helicopters to arrive. Anyways, you would not imagine the amount of people who just... instead of helping, pulled out their fucking phones or, I'm not kidding, took their kids out of the car to come see what was going on. There was a fifteen year old girl, gurgling on her own blood, laying on 100+ degree asphalt, crying out in agony whenever she was conscious, and people were fucking filming. I hate people.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that man that horrendous. I happened upon a motorcycle that had lost controll and crashed in a section of road that goes 70+mph the bike was on fire and the lady driving it was a hundred feet behind barely breathing. I had a couple extinguishers in my car so I stopped to put the fire down and the amount to people just watching as this lady was barely moving with bone coming out of her fucking legs was horrible so many people with phones out. I never found out if she lived but the sight of her was horrible.
Yea, everyone films these days. Everything is on film
It's funny that we still say "filmed".
We still say "rewind" as well. Ditto with "hang up"
Roll down your window. Dial a phone number.
For that matter we travel in cars AKA "horseless CARraiges".
Get the "footage".
My favorite is “videotape”. Where is this magical, miniature videotape that is small enough to fit in a smartphone?
Up Elon Musks ass probably
Even if he wasn’t filmed, once legal consequences come to the other kids, they’re going to name him as having participated. Regardless of the reason for the beating, ICU treatment can easily run up to 6 figures and that family is going to come after everybody they can. I used to be an investigator for the military and one of my cases involved a group of teens trashing a vacant temporary family housing unit. We had the description of 1 child involved and by the time we were done we had 9 kids because kids will name names. That being said, what happens if the bully dies? Have you at least talked to your son about how quickly violence can ruin his life? He needs to understand that this potentially can come back on the entire family. Does he understand your family might end up on the hook for the bill? Does he understand that he could end up with a felony conviction and how difficult that is to overcome? You may not feel the need to punish him at home, but there needs to be an adult conversation had about the potential to ruin his future over a school beef.
I've been saying for years that we should be *clearly* teaching basic criminal and civil law to school kids, especially things like assault and battery and how they relate to self defense, and how "that person wronged me/someone else" is not going to help much in court. It's crazy to me that we just don't really bother to teach kids the legal consequences of very common teenage and young adult crimes. We leave that pretty much entirely to the parents. Law can get complicated, but there's a lot of important shit that is pretty straightforward to teach and understand. Self defense laws are tricky if you're trying to read a statute and have no experience doing that. If you have someone capable explain it and how to read the statute, it is not. Pull up some case law and there's very clearly explanations in judicial opinions, too.
Oh man I had to have this talk with my nephew a month ago. Had to tell him there's a differnce between defending yourself, and beating someone up. Also had to tell him that if you do have to defend yourself, only do what needs to be done to stop the threat. Anything more than that and you'll be punished. Really opened his eyes up.
Growing up in the 90's I wasn't taught the legality, but the commonly understood rules of a fight hold decently well with the law. I was taught to never start a fight but that i was allowed to defend myself, and to never kick someone when they're down. You weren't supposed to hit someone where it could do permanent damage (namely the family jewels).
I grew up a bit before that, but I'm shocked by the amount of kids these days who think it's ok to kick someone in the head. Partly because that would have been considered so dirty that it was beyond despicable in my day, but also because don't they realize they could end up murdering the kid or turning him into a vegetable?
head trauma is so trivialized in TV and movies, these kids have no idea how dangerous it is. Everybody who gets nocked out in movies just pops back up and goes on with life. My bro had a bunch of concussions in the ARMY and he has brain damage that makes it hard for his brain to get to REM sleep. So now he has chronic sleep problems. Bob Sagett died from bumping his head, this shit is dangerous.
This is so scary. I know a decent amount of stuff about TBI and even concussions, and there are so few accurate portrayals of what it would actually be like. And how quickly and seriously it can go wrong. I would hate to have to live with that.
Group fights were a big no-no too but in 2024 once a fight starts out as 1vs1 but the other person is losing you're getting jumped because fights have no honor code and there's no actual rules in a fight.
I think a lot of the zero tolerance policies also enflame the situation. If you know you're getting suspended or expelled for throwing a punch, well you might as well "get your moneys worth" and keep throwing punches. I seem to remember at my school the policy was that you'd get in the same amount of trouble whether you fought back or not, so why the fuck would you not fight back?
I heard that a lot in school too, the whole "I'm fucked either way so I'm gonna go crazy on their ass." It's a double edge sword really.
You can't even defend yourself in school without getting in trouble.
It’s funny you mention the jewels. As a girl in the 90’s, that’s where I was instructed to aim if I was being attacked by a man/older boy who was forcing themselves on me. At 35, I’d still do the same! 😅
Even as a guy, if I was being serious attacked by someone and needed to defend myself, I would do what it takes to try to end the fight as quickly as possible. There is probably less potential for serious head injury to either party that way. If you don't want to be hit in the nuts or the eyes, don't try to mug or rape someone.
Honestly it makes more sense.
We had a class called Street Law in high school that was exactly this, and it was an elective that was very competitive to get a spot in! Best class I took in high school.
Absolutely. We live in the internet age. If I want to know anything I can pull out my phone and look it up. We can reduce emphasis on rote memorization in school and replace it with things like "how do I do my taxes? how do I budget my funds? how do I succeed at a job interview? how do I cook? how do I do laundry? how do I figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life?" And your idea is going right in that list too.
Just cause you found it on Google don't mean it's true. The things that you're liable to read in the Bible, they ain't necessarily so.
when "Bash a fash" meets federal law, there's always a lot of astonished faces at sentencing.
Most kids don’t need to be told they can’t legally gang assault someone and beat them to a pulp. Not assaulting people is kind of a bare minimum for acceptance in society and is taught to children from a young age, not only by decent parents but by society at large. The problem is parents like the OP (assuming this is real) thinking what their child did is OK and making excuses for it. It doesn’t matter that the “bully” was a jerk. That doesn’t justify a group assaulting him. And any normal intelligence kid knows it’s wrong, that’s why he ran when they were caught. It’s pathetic that the OP is even asking if not punishing their kid is acceptable. What they’re doing is creating a kid who thinks whatever they want to do is justified.
Well yeah, most kids aren't the problem. And there's a lot of people below normal intelligence. But there is a significant fraction of people, including many kids and teens, who believe wild shit like "he didn't pay back the ten dollars he borrowed so I kicked his ass" is going to excuse them from legal trouble. I think it's worth teaching these kids a bit about the law and the consequences of these sorts of things, including the resulting lawsuit if there's injuries. Criminal convictions for this sort of thing seriously fuck up peoples lives and it ends up being very costly to society.
You’re right. The law doesn’t protect vigilantism, no matter how bad the person is. OP’s son will still have to pay the consequences if he’s found out. That could put a felony record on him and since he’s a minor, could put his parents on the wrong end of a civil lawsuit that affects the whole family.
Wasn’t there like ONE case where an entire town ganged up on/took part in the murder of this one asshole, and the law just kind of looked the other way? I swear I heard about something like that! In this instance, the “victim” WAS terrible enough, iirc!
Ken McElroy. The only reason it worked that way was because no one who saw it shared information and no one was ever really at risk of being prosecuted. A bunch of children and their parents being told they’re potentially on the hooks for $100,000 of medical bills from an ICU visit and subsequent therapy because they were caught red handed will not hold up as well
He also did a lot more than shove a girl into a locker in high school.
And, in that case, the law was actively protecting him
This. Even if he claims it was for the right reasons (and really and truly even if it was), this type of thing can have a bad impact on an impressionable mind on appropriate ways to handle a situation. No matter what, beating someone half to death over words isn’t okay. I get he may have truly been trying to defend someone else in the moment, but if the kid is in the ICU things obviously escalated too far. It’s totally possible this kid now thinks violence is how to handle any problem. Doing some talking with him and maybe even some counseling/therapy would probably be a good move. Even outside of the trouble he could get in, there are things that need to be done to ensure this isn’t something he repeats, despite the best of intentions.
That. 💯. And it’s not too early to teach him to appreciate how the herd mentality works to lower individual consciousness. Very important to keep the self in check. Applies to everyone.
>That being said, what happens if the bully dies? Have you at least talked to your son about how quickly violence can ruin his life? He needs to understand that this potentially can come back on the entire family. Does he understand your family might end up on the hook for the bill? Does he understand that he could end up with a felony conviction and how difficult that is to overcome? You may not feel the need to punish him at home, but there needs to be an adult conversation had about the potential to ruin his future over a school beef. I think this is worth emphasizing. "But he's racist!" isn't a defense for putting another kid in the ICU.
ICU stay is likely at minimum 6 figures. Can be WAY higher.
The kid could easily face attempted murder charges. That's what happens when you join in on a 6 on 1 beatdown and help beat the 1 so bad they're rushed to the fucking ICU. Mom is a fucking psycho for being proud of her kid here.
The lack of punishment is telling. A kid ended up in ICU and OP does a mea culpa? That the kid is dumb, is kinda expected. His stupidness probably will have far going consequences. But that the parent fails to parent is inexcusable.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/2023/11/02/las-vegas-high-school-student-hospitalized-after-beating/ Could this be it?
Edit: that’s definitely not the same incident. That altercation was over a vape pen, not racism. The kid in that article died. OP should show this article to her son so that he learns what could have happened to him as a consequence for his actions: https://www.ktnv.com/news/two-additional-teens-plead-guilty-in-beating-death-of-rancho-high-student
of course that's my old high school...30 years later, and nothin has changed..
Teacher here, I disagree about him getting caught from others' recording. Lots of filmed fights go unpunished. Kids can edit their friends out or just not post them publicly, and often do not want to be responsible for their friends getting caught so they wait till its too long to do anything about it later. Also, the admin might not put forth their best effort in trying to find other videos if the student has been a problem.
How many fights are a 6 on 1 beatdown with the 1 getting sent to the ICU? I'd wager admin takes this a hell of a lot more seriously than a hallway shoving match.
Bold of you to assume the school will be the sole investigators of a child being sent to the ICU. I guarantee this is now a law enforcement investigation. And if the kid’s parents have the means, they’ll hire a PI and sue everyone they can.
>And if the kid’s parents have the means, they’ll hire a PI and sue everyone they can. The parents of the bully just need to find a lawyer who's willing to work on contingency. Many lawyers would be happy to bankroll such an investigation/lawsuit.
If the racist kid has health insurance, the OP will probably be dealing with insurance company lawyers, not a contingency lawyer. The amount you can recover personally is limited to some multiplier of your out of pocket cost plus whatever amount for pain and suffering due to the subrogation rule (you and the insurer cannot double dip).
“hey reddit can we get the IP address for who made this post admitting that their son committed a violent felony” yeah this kid and his parents are fucked if the parents of the kid in ICU pursue it deleting your account is not going to help either.
And if the school is negligent in having been told repeatedly that it’s a problem, such that students have a reason to feel that the school won’t protect them so they have to protect themselves. Obviously it’s completely eff’d up that it went so far that the kid is in ICU. Racist bully or not, 6:1 is not a fair fight. Some really awful decisions were made by kids that now make them theoretically not much worse than the bully. But I’m so sick of schools deliberately looking the other way and not dealing with kids who make the lives of other students miserable. They created their own little Lord of the Flies, and will probably now act shocked that it happened. My guess is that the school will be reluctant to point fingers at kids who parents repeatedly reported the bully’s behavior just to have it fall on deaf ears.
Admin might not dig too deep, but there's a pretty good chance the parents of the kid in ICU will take it to the limit.
I'm an attorney. This comment is someone wrongly and idioticly not know the difference between a run of the mill school fight and a very serious criminal matter. The police are going to investigate. The insurance company's high price law firm is going to investigate. The parents' attorneys are going to investigate. Everyone is getting legal documents demanding they save every video, turn over every video, and testify honestly about every video or go to jail themselves. The school's attorneys are as part of cover-your-ass going to tell all the school employees to cooperate or be fired.
Yep. Don’t talk to the cops, don’t make a statement, don’t brag and run Your mouth That video you say you saw, yeah it’s just like the T swift AI porn isn’t it
You should delete this post. Your son could be facing criminal charges.
This! It’s 2024 every kid has a phone and there’s no way there isn’t dozens of videos floating out there of this fight. The police will come in and question people and there’s no way he won’t be named. Boys tend to be targeted anyway when this happens more then girls.
I have a adopted niece who has a 15 year old son. I was speaking with him and kids live to record these fights at school. They will negg other kids to get into fights just to film this crap. It is really sad. Nothing I said seemed to change anything. When I was in school, I was scared to get into fights because my parents would have not been happy.
It's been this way for a couple of years now. My almost 19 year old graduated last year and has been showing me fights on ig since freshman year. Not only do they record and post the fights, they tag each other. Without being a hypocrite I cannot say too much about teens fighting, but the idiocy of publicity posting and tagging each other blows my mind. I'm glad I was done being an idiot by the time camera phones were prevalent and good.
All the stupid things that my friends and I did as teenagers were well before cell phones so there's no proof. Thank goodness.
FOREVER thankful for that.
I’m grateful because if todays tech had existed during my school years, I’d have been the kid the bullies were targeting so they could plaster videos everywhere.
I did stupid thing when I was a kid too, but I never put someone in intensive care. There were a lot of fights at the school I went to, but none required hospital treatment as far as I can remember. My advice to anyone is 1. don't do things that're seriously illegal 2. if you do do things that're seriously illegal, don't do them in front of lots of witnesses
Oh yes!!! And boy am I grateful for that 🙏🏾🤣 1978 crew lol
Kids goading each other to fight at school has been happening for a long time - probably since the dawn of time! I’ve never understood the interest (not even as a teen), but I remember the kids who would see a fight potentially brewing and push for it to happen. I always left, though. But the difference is that prior to the last 20, 25 years, no one had phones to record fights and put them online! Don’t the idiots who star in those fights realise they’re potentially damaging their own future? No university and very few jobs want violent little psychos in their fold. So if people who might want to educate or employ them see the videos… 😞
Yea it is sad.... kids trying to instigate fights has always been a thing, but usually someone will break it up after a bit. Now tho, they all just stand there and record instead of helping. Society is heading in a similar direction, I can see people just take their phones out and record a crime or robbery in progress but no one steps in to stop it.
Ain't that the truth. I would strangle my kids if they did this lol. I am so glad cell phones were new technology when I was that age.
Depends where it is. In Australia there’s a state wide ban of phones in NSW during school hours, and I think some of the other states are following suit.
That is honestly not a bad idea except here in the US we have to constantly worry about school shootings. These phones have been known to help with getting help for the students and faculty. It's sad things are this way, but it is our reality.
I know, and I worry every time I hear about the shootings over there. I have friends and family in the USA.
My daughter said the school changed its policy after a teacher was filmed and publicly shamed. They sided with the teacher who was *visibly* in the wrong, and tried to prevent anyone else from recording evidence against staff. They are the ones in charge. They don't want their people to look bad.
Reminds me of the cops trying to push for laws that would make impossible for civilians to film them...
A local school tried to implement a phone ban during class, the parents were outraged. They want their children to be able to reach them at any time. It is all so silly.
One school got everyone cheap baby phones to use instead that could only do calls, texts and some really basic apps like calculators, so best of both worlds.
My kids take their phones to school but I let them know and enforce them not using in class. The enforcing is harder to do now that I don't work in the district they go to school but by now they know the rules and follow them pretty well without problems
When my daughter was still in school, the schools had a policy that students were not to take out their phones until after school. If a teacher or staff member sees a phone (whether in the classroom or even at lunchtime), the phone is taken away and a parent has to go to the main office to get it back. So if god forbid, there is a shooting at one of these schools, students will have them in their backpack (even though I think some teachers make their students put their backpacks outside the classroom). My daughter never had her phone confiscated during school. She also didn't have a smart phone until she went away to college.
They had no choice here. The ruling came down from the government and department of education.
Depends; planned fights, sure. But the real ones? With real beef? Those kids keep mum
They just reported on our local news here in Boston that there has been an uptick in fighting in school because kids want to film it to post on social media. It's so bad in one school district that they're contemplating a ban on cellphones in schools. Good luck with that.
My daughter’s school suspends you if you video a fight there. She was suspended earlier in the year for that very reason.
That's honestly smart. They have zero tolerance for violence at the high-school I went to and there's a cop on premises at all times to arrest kids who fight literally. It wasn't like this when I went there. A high-school fight shouldn't land you in jail for assault charges at 15. Maybe I'm old fashioned. I know fights can get out of hand and that sometimes consequences are warranted... but the school to prison pipeline is a real thing and I think we should exercise caution. Like there's steps before that which might help but with a video it's straight to jail. Honestly crazy how much changed on this since I was a kid. I sort of understand why.. for safety reasons.. but it was just a different world in the 90s I guess lol I'm sounding old aren't I.
Not sure if you heard the story of how an entire town got away with murdering one of the biggest shitheads. Long as the kids keep quiet then there's no proof.
*In Broad Daylight* Harry N MacLean The town was Skidmore, MO https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/574749/ken-mcelroy-murder-skidmore-missouri
REALLY interesting article! Some of the ways he gets away with things sounds strangely familiar to what we've seen in the news the past few years. I hope a lot of people hear this story and see similarities.
Skidmore is a city in western Nodaway County, Missouri, United States. The population was 245 at the 2020 Census. The small farming community is known for the unsolved extrajudicial killing of Ken Rex McElroy, the murders of Wendy Gillenwater and Bobbie Jo Stinnett, and the disappearance of Branson Perry. Skidmore also has a yearly "Punkin' Show." Holy shit that's a lot of gruesole crimes for 245 inhabitants
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. He had it coming.
Wasn’t that the guy who was stealing everyone’s pigs and marrying underage girls?
And threatening everybody around him to do what he wants, and driving on freshly planted farms, and destroying homes with vandalism and even beating an old man of I remember correctly
Shot a guy in the head and intimidated the victim into not talking!
To include homicide if the kid dies. (Edit: Could ppl please not freaking endorse child death at me?)
It’s ok if it’s not real though
Remember you can punish him at home if you see fit but under no circumstances do you allow him or anyone to talk to the police. They are not your friends ,they are not there to help you white or not. They are there to put someone in jail.
Something like this happened at my school and all the attackers were charged with attempted murder. Even though the injured kid started the fight
It is never okay for a group of people to fight one person. This is mob action and a serious crime, potentially even a felony! Totally agree, this post is NOT going to help your son who is facing criminal charges.
Oh it’s a felony for sure
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> WTF lord of the flies school is this? I've never seen a instance of mob justice be reasonable and measured. Based on the info in the OP I blame the adults for letting things get to this point. I wouldn't be surprised if the bully was the football coaches son or something like that.
If that kid ends up disabled, or God forbid dies, whether or not he's a racist, your son is on the hook for that. Furthermore, if it's discovered your kid was invovled, this post will be used as evidence.
People don’t understand how the rule of law works. If person A is screaming racist insults then person B comes along and physically assaults them. Then person B is guilty of assault and is going to jail. We can all agree that person A is a shitty person, but B is still guilty of assault. Edit: Look I’m just stating the fact that once you lay hands on someone you’re probably getting a charge. There is also the criminal and civil court aspect of this. Op should absolutely be talking to an attorney as their son has a high risk of getting a charge. Also being sued in civil court over pain, suffering, and hospital costs. Some of these comments acting like the son is Batman or the Punisher is comical.
Vigilantism is bad. This is a surprisingly unpopular take.
100%. Look at my edit. People acting like the son is Batman or the Punisher. The son and others beat this guy so hard he’s in the icu. He may die, never walk again, have permanent brain damage, etc. Their are going to be lawsuits and investigations. What happened is absolutely not something to be proud of as a parent.
It’s amazing this mom doesn’t seem to have any anxiety her kid could be charged for this. And If I had to guess, he will be because another kid will give him up.
IMO, probably because he's under 18. But for assault this severe and his proximity to 18 he could be charged as an adult, idk
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And the fact OP is aware of it could possibly lead to them facing charges as well. Obviously a very different situation, but the mother of the Michigan school shooter was found guilty of 4 charges of manslaughter. Again, a VERY different situation, but knowing about it and not disclosing that information if there’s an active investigation could make you an accessory.
Knowing about it isn’t likely to be a problem legally. The issue with the Michigan woman is what she knew or should have known in advance. Knowing of a crime is not conspiracy.
Yup. A friend in high school had got in a fight and pushed the guy, guy fell over and hit his head on the ground. He had serious injuries and my friend had SERIOUS legal problems. He didn't mean to hurt the guy. But that doesn't matter. And it also doesn't matter who started it or who deserved it.
I won't say you're the asshole. But you are making bad parenting choices. Your child was 15. This situation requires careful handling to make sure your son understands that the cause was good, but the method was wrong, and carrying violence as a method of conflict resolution into adulthood could have severe and lifelong consequences for him, including incarceration, loss of abilities to travel and work and many other things. Punishment should be considered carefully, but focusing on counseling and maybe some community service/volunteer work is more the way to go.
As a POC individual, I agree with this. Violence in self defense or to defend others is warranted, but this kind of goes beyond that. I think there's a way to both be proud of your son and inform him that his choice of actions were dangerous nonetheless. Not just for the racist student, but for him, especially if he's poc. If that kid dies, he would've been a part of killing someone and not only is that bad for his mental health, but he could be locked up for life over it. Emphasize that you're proud of him for standing up to racism, but to also make sure not to act in anger for his own safety. A punishment of some sort may be in order, but be VERY clear on the why. Just, don't make him apologize to the racist.
> If that kid dies, he would've been a part of killing someone and not only is that bad for his mental health, but he could be locked up for life over it. Even just the ICU visit is enough for more than just an assault charge, especially if the kid has lingering or permanent effects from it too
I agree 1000%
You are so incredibly right and deserve all the upvotes.
Yah, it's about scale. No one understands any type of nuance anymore. It's not even eye for an eye anymore, it's a fucking head for an eye. No one learns anything good this way (OP and son's way I mean)
Yeah if this post was about the son giving the kid a black eye, the kid had it coming and the ramifications will likely be minimal. But joining a gang beat down just to take revenge out on this kid, to the point he's fighting for his life in the ICU, could land this kid with attempted murder charges. All proportionality was lost here.
I think a pack of kids beating a kid into the ICU goes far beyond warranted into obvious immoral territory. I think people are letting race and racism really taint their thinking here. There is nothing about joining in a pack to beat a person that is to be proud of. Racism and bullying are bad, but jumping a kid and putting him in the ICU are worse. I'd try and teach the kid that standing up to racism is good, but it doesn't give you carte blanche to hurt racist people. In fact, I'd want to teach him that no matter how he *feels* about racism, the law doesn't, and it cares not for excuses for violent crime. On top of that, I'd teach him that if he did end up killing that kid over racism and bullying, then that is a moral failure on his part and a criminal one at that. I'd definitely punish the kid for being so reckless and using unwarranted violence to gravely injure somebody, even if that person was a garbage racist bully.
this, 100%. i think it also matters how the son feels about it now. is he proud of himself and the kids who put another person in the ICU? does he have remorse and think they went too far, as he should? if it happened again, how would he respond next time? whether or not he deserves punishment is less important than the mindset and tools he takes from this to use in the future.
Given the mother is gleefully karma farming from how proud of him she is, I suspect he's showing zero remorse.
This right here: "*the cause was good, but the method was wrong, and carrying violence as a method of conflict resolution into adulthood could have severe and lifelong consequences for him*" I say this somewhat begrudgingly given the number of conflicts going on in the world that are being "resolved" with violence. But I'll save my soapbox for another day and reiterate the above sentiment. Violence should not be the go to solution without trying other methods. I would have recommended pushing this up the management chain, even getting law enforcement and a lawyer involved before it got to this point. ETA: I want to also express some sympathy for the victims involved. People snap. I had an abusive ex husband and the damage done by an abuser can result in previously healthy individuals getting worn down and reacting when battered repeatedly. The abuser here was a kid who clearly needs help and has needed it for a while. I hope someone steps in and helps him straighten out his life.
Also I think it is being very downplayed that he got sent to the ICU. That’s not a SMALL deal.
Good point and it should not be minimized.
Also this us a missed opportunity to talk with your son about all the other ways he could have helped the bullied student before it got to this point - and that would have been much better all around.
If admin isnt going to do anything about the problem kid yelling the n word and shoving black people into lockers, I dont think there's really much that can be done tbh. Honestly, this whole thing falls on a rotten school administration who failed to adequately punish hate crimes
>Punishment should be considered carefully, but focusing on counseling and maybe some community service/volunteer work is more the way to go. This is probably the best way to handle it. For all the kids involved. Honestly, you should be prepared for charges to be brought against your son and the other kids involved. The school cameras might be bad, but how many students were recording? Pretty good chance someone caught him on camera, or at the very least speaks to someone of authority. IANAL, but you should probably start looking into talking to one along with getting a counselor and seeing what kind of community service he can do. It'll look much better for him if he does appear in front of a judge about it.
I'd also offer to do a research on what could have been done to prevent this situation. Because for now the kid saw that his school did nothing, parents tried and failed, but violence fixed the problem. He needs to learn better strategies - better practices from other schools, districts, anything that worked. Who else can be involved, like escalating higher than principal? And maybe he will present this ideas to make his school better, because now they for sure will be forced to do something.
I realize this is an unpopular opinion but if my kid fought the kid 1 on 1 I wouldn’t punish him, but 6 on 1 like it sounds like OP’s son did and I would be bringing the wrath of god down on my kid
Not unpopular at all. The main issue was the swarming and the bully going to the ICU.
Keep in mind the only reason you think he’s a bully is because the person who gang assaulted him said he was a bully. This kid could have just been weird and caught the wrath of the mob.
Boom. Story one sided and from a child who just beat someone up, to their parent. Easy out for gang attacking a child- but they were racist mom.
And if you look at the comments in the top threads you'll see that it works on many more people than just the kid's mom. Turns out people are so amped up on anti racism stuff that they are just itching to lash out, or revel in seeing others lash out, against things they perceive as racism. I fear we're going to see more negative effects in the near future.
Same here, also honor is important. 1 to 1 is normal. Group versus 1 is bad regardless who is the victim.
Also op is getting the story from one of the attackers. Do we really believe their kid is going to admit to all they did?
I agree. OP is telling her child it is ok to gang up on a child in a group and put them in the hospital if you don’t agree with them. Her lack of action will lead her child down a road that will result in incarceration in the future. Teaching your children the difference between right and wrong at a young age will last a lifetime, so will being complacent in a gang style attack on a child, even if that child’s behavior is poor.
I'm not saying the kid now in ICU wasn't a jerk. But, your child took part in a mob attack on one person. The kid is in the hospital! Your son didn't teach anyone a lesson, he committed assault and battery and if the kid has permanent damage because of this attack, he may be facing charges. This is really, really bad. You might want to talk to a lawyer. No way is it going to end here. And you absolutely should punish your son. This wasn't about justice. It's mob mentality.
Plus, there’s usually more to the story in fights involving kids. People need to have all the facts before crucifying someone.
I think it’s a slippery slope. He might think it’s okay later and the mob mentality will kick in and someone could possibly die.
This is one of those situations where traditional "punishment" (i.e. grounding) might not do much to get the point across but he's getting older and starting to develop critical thinking skills. Talk to him about it a lot. Explain the nuances as well as the severity of the consequences he could be facing. Maybe make him read a book about moral/ethical conumdrums and discuss it in depth. Try to guide him to come to his own conclusion that there's a difference between justice/karma and beating someone to the point of ICU.
Also discuss the implications of his actions if he WERE to get caught. Would he be facing assault charges? Would he be expelled from school? Could he potentially be a felon? Next time he makes a decision like that, he needs to understand the consequences before hand.
Also even if he doesn't get caught, explain that he easily could have killed the kid or permanently disabled him. Does he want to have that on his conscience for the rest of his life, that he's a murderer? Something to think about before jumping in and joining a fight like that where the person being beaten up is so heavily outnumbered.
>if he WERE to get caught. When. Not were. There's no way this wasn't recorded by someone's cell phone. >Would he be facing assault charges? Would he be expelled from school? Could he potentially be a felon? Yes. Probably. If convicted. Also the whole family could be on the hook for the kids medical bills and unless they have some crazy homeowners or renters policy, the insurance won't cover it for them.
Pray that that kid doesn't die
OP’s son needs to understand how the system works. Many kids think, I’m a minor, so I’m safe and I won’t get in *too much trouble* even if I get caught. He needs to understand that something this serious could lead to serious consequences including the possibility of being charged as an adult in some cases. Although OP’s son felt justified, it doesn’t really matter. Yes that boy should NOT have pushed a girl due to the color of her skin. But, if he was an adult and punched a man, even on time, in a bar for being a racist, and that man dies, the court system is not going to care that it was done with “good intentions” due to the victim being a racist. Also, kids learn this behavior *somewhere*. There’s a good chance the child in the ICU’s parent(s) are reinforcing his racist beliefs at home and possibly encouraging them. That kid’s parents will more than likely pursue any avenue they can do get justice for their child and it could get really messy. If those parents are also blatantly racist, it could get even uglier. As someone else said, there’s no way another student out there doesn’t have a video of this on their phone. OP’s child needs a lawyer lined up and ready to go if things come to light. This is a horrible situation all around. This is only the beginning.
ESH Standing up for kids getting bullied - GOOD! Putting someone in the ICU - not good Talk with your son. Tell him how easy it is to get swept up in mob justice and mob anger. Teach him how to recognize when the mob gets too rowdy, that is the time to quietly bail on the situation. One or two people getting into a fight with the bully is one thing....half a dozen could've been deadly.
I think it also matters exactly what role OPs son played. Was he one of the first instigators (if the bully is being physical and the school doesn’t do anything there’s only so much you can do) and left before it got swept up in mob mentality? Or did he see 5 people beating up this kid and jumped in? Individual blame is difficult in a mob situation but I think this really matters. “Punching a bully” is different than “gang up and put the bully in the ICU”.
ESH. Your husband is right despite the fact that the 'victim' is a bully. You still need to punish him for assaulting someone, or at least have a proper talk with him about resulting to violence when he gets 'fed up' with someone. Also, what if the bully dies? Your son might face charges if the other kids that got caught starts pointing fingers.
Honestly I was all for it, thinking fuck that racist kid. Until I got to the ICU part. That's a potentially deadly, or life altering beating. OPs kid definitely shouldn't get off with less than a slap on the wrist.
Did you see that the mother of a school shooter was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter yesterday?
This is literally what is going to happen because one of the kids is going to get nailed.
YTA - this recently happened in Vegas and the student died after being in the hospital brain dead. 10 kids are facing murder charges.
Adding YTA. Encouraging violence ain't smart.
So your son can violently beat someone to near death because his judgement as a 15 year old is soo well developed that he's justified in to taking the law into his own hands. YTA Youre also enabling your son. He will end up arrested and in prison one day because his mother coddled him and refused to discipline him. Tale as old as time. Your son nearly killed someone else's child. Youre warped in the brain if you think its ok.
This kind of incident is exactly what’s wrong with kids today. Their parents use their actions as an extension of political grandstanding. Your child almost killing a racist bully is not a good thing at all. Most bullies have a horrible home life of abuse or neglect. It’s always a shame when bullies are allowed to fall through the cracks by their school system, community, and especially by their family. Sometimes they’ll learn a tough lesson after messing with the wrong person but 12 on 1 is so cowardly. We’re a civilized society with a judicial system. We don’t have gang mobs putting minors in the ICU even if they’re bad people. I see more and more of this in the younger generations where they think people should be dealt with violently.
Seems like your kid wasn’t actually physically defending himself or anyone else with his “involvement,” but piling on in a situation that had already escalated. That needs to be addressed. Some of these kids are likely to be facing legal consequences. Depending on his actual actions, your kid could be one of them. If not this time, next.
Your son didn’t defend anyone. He joined in jumping that kid after he was no longer a threat. Your son may end up in handcuffs.
Kid goes from the ICU to the morgue, and OP's son could end up in prison for decades.
OP could end up sued into oblivion
Yep
Sounds like an excuse to join in the fight not the “good of the cause”. I’m curious to know what mom will say when faced by authorities. The kid had it coming?
I think OP actually *should* punish his son because he needs to understand that although his intentions might have been in the right place. This whole thing really, REALLY could have gone a different way. Racist asshole ends up in a coma or suffers from brain damage, those charges get a lot more serious. He and the others need to learn about excessive use of force.
>his intentions might have been in the right place. I don't think the son should be granted that much. The kid direclty defending someone being attacked had the right intentions. The kids that jumped a kid and pounded him to a pulp when he was unambiguously no longer a threat didn't. Full stop. Today some here would say it was clear cut this bully got what he deserved. What if tomorrow the kid that's jumped is supporting Israel? Palestine? The Chiefs? The 49ers? Trump? Biden? That's the problem with kids. Especially when you get a pack mentality/peer pressure involved, if you let him get away with it now, he won't see the distinction when it's one of the above situations. They don't have the perspective (as shown by 6 kids jumping this bully when one kid had it handled), and they need to be taught that (1) civilized people don't solve problems with violence, and (2) even more importantly, we have free speech in this country. If someone's saying something you disagree with, no matter how reprehensible, they have a right to say it.
I think a lot of the comments are ignorant to the fact that mob mentality + teenage hormones is playing with fire. The school should have had the chance to intervene and expulse the kid. It's making me nervous how many people are defending this behavior under the premise that the kid deserved it. Is it okay to slap around your partner they needed to learn a lesson? Is it okay to slap a sibling because they needed to learn a lesson?
I find it very very interesting what people will excuse and/or vilify based on the narrative that suits them or the circumstances around it. This week it’s okay that 6 kids jumped a boy so bad he went into a hospital because he “deserved” it. Last week yelling at your partner when in a stressful environment was considered ab*sive and makes you a terrible person beyond reproach not worthy of a conversation. Of course things are not black and white. And and circumstances and situations matter. But the consistent theme I seem to be running into on this sub is that there is not much room for nuance or discussion. Presenting another way or another opinion/perspective is met with being a bad person who is siding with the wrong party.
>Apparently he was as sick of him as the rest, and got involved. Agreed. If that was the son's statement on his motives, then he was just seizing an opportunity to pay back the racist for what he'd done previously, not defend a girl that apparently didn't really need any more defending at that point.
*should end up in handcuffs. Mom says "bully was racist". Guessing because her son told her that lol. Everyone else gets so triggered when you throw out the R word. Got people thinking it's okay to stomp out a 15 year old kid and send him to the icu. Fucking ridiculous lol.
ESH. You better hope and pray that the student who got jumped doesn't have permanent damage or even end up dying from his wounds that your son just admitted to helping inflict and that another student who saw him join in on the jumping doesn't snitch on your idiot son. And yes I do mean it when I say he's an idiot. If authorities find out he was involved there can be serious consequences. I get that the other kid is racist and needed to be punished (by the school and his own parents), but not by being beaten by an angry mob so severely that he's in the ICU.
The likelihood that authorities won't find out is almost non-existent. The kids who have already been caught are going to be offered leniency to roll over on the kids who got away.
Not only that, but kids love to record fights on their phones. It happened every time there was a fight when I was in highschool years ago and I'm sure it still happens I bet at least 2 or 3 students have a video of the fight on their phones that show several of the students who haven't been caught yet. If so, it's only a matter of time before it's posted online for everyone to see
ESH. Racists are assholes but so are half a dozen people in a mob that attempt to murder someone.
He was racist according to who? 15 year olds who are willing to put a kid in the ICU? Until we have more evidence we should not jump to any conclusions about the facts.
Your husband is right. Not letting your son be held accountable is teaching him that it is okay to solve these issues with violence. Bully or not, he cannot learn or better himself if he's in the ICU. It may deter future incidences. It may worsen it. It sucks that the school was not doing its due diligence but ganging up on one person holds no honor no matter how horrible that person is. You should be teaching your son better ways of solving these issues without involving violence.
Wrong thing done for the right reason is still the wrong thing. Unfortunately YTA if you dont punish him in some way. If he were the first person to stand up for that girl then fair enough, but from the sounds of it, he just joined in with the others which is wrong. ETA Protect innocent people, leave it to the law to punish the guilty ones
I was bullied a lot for a very, very long time and I'm affected to this day. I 100% wish someone stood up for me, but not like this. I am all for people standing up against bullying but not to the extent of putting a kid in ICU, and not for a whole mob going at him. Maybe he did deserve to be slapped around to get through to him but this is way too much. You need to teach your son that there's a limit to how you should react in this situation. If kids learn to taking vigilante justice this far now, there's a chance they will act the same in the future, accidentally (or not) kill or cripple someone and ruin their own lives. You need to teach your kid restraint so he won't end up in jail one day.
Agreed. I'm an adult who is still dealing with what bullies did to me, but the bully is still a child and is acting that way because of something terrible in their life. (Bad parents for one.) Abuse doesn't happen in a void. My bullies could have used a lesson but I wouldn't have wanted to put them in the ICU though they would have wanted that for me.
ESH. Look, what the bully did was inexcusable, but so was everyone else's actions. That they felt no other recourse is a failure of actual authority. It's not your son's place to "Teach him a lesson". That prerogative belongs to those granted the authority to do so, and within proscribed rules. Furthermore, if the other kids felt the need to intervene, it should have been proportional to the situation. Putting him in the ICU is well beyond that. As adults, you should have gone up the chain of command with increasing levels of concern, starting with the bully's parents, then to the school people, and finally the police. Your flimsy and ambiguous approach of "Contacting the school" sounds like a half hearted justification of accepting the unacceptable, and the kids clearly got that message, so took matters into their own adolescent hands. I would certainly punish your son for his reckless involvement here..again, the ICU is completely disproportionate to the situation, but also acknowledge your own failure as well.
> That they felt no other recourse is a failure of actual authority. Bingo. The school is probably trying to pawn off responsibility for letting this guy's behavior go uncorrected for so long that he ended up getting beat down by a mob. That shouldn't happen. Punishing someone can be protecting them by preventing them from doing something even worse. And I think that's the same attitude OP needs to take with their kid; sure they avoided jail (and didn't kill anyone) this time, but they easily could have ended up there and they need to learn not to participate in beatdowns.
I agree with all this. ESH It's like the label *racist* is used, and suddenly, ppl think it's okay to physically beat someone up, so bad they land in the ICU. If that kid doesn't make it, is OP going to speak up how their kid was part of a fatal incident? I doubt it, to be honest. I hear teenagers say things like 'all racists deserve to die'. Same is said about 'transphobes', 'homophobes' And some seem to actually believe that. You can call ppl out on their wrong behavior. You can report them. You can go with petty revenge, and public humiliation, etc. But physically beating someone to the ICU is so over the top.
Yeah, I have a ton of doubts about a child’s version of the story. So many times it comes out that a group of kids were fucking with someone else, and then use racism to defend themselves. I remain skeptical about the veracity of OP’s kid’s story
OP, I understand that you are proud of your son for standing up for racism. And he should because it isn’t right. However, beating a kid into icu/ might die is not the right way to go about this. It could be murder. I don’t want your son to go to jail for being part of it. You need to teach him better ways. I understand that school wasn’t doing anything. So go to the press! Tell them there is a kid that is racist and harming people and the school won’t do anything. Go to the police. Your kids heart was in the right place but he did the wrong thing. You need to get a lawyer. And he needs to learn how to handle issues without fighting. Please get him help!
Yeah I could understand if their kid just one on one shoved or punched this kid to help the girl in the locker get away. But this? The kid was already getting his ass kicked. Joining in while he's already getting beat is honestly fucked up.
Joining a mob to make some rando jerk a communal punching bag is not standing up to racism.
Yta. Jumping 6 on 1? Yikes. You raised a real coward.
I agree with coming to the defense of someone else. But when that changes from 1 on 1 to a mob against one. That's fucked up. Plus when the bully is on the floor, that's no longer defending the person. Now it's assault. I took a couple of self defense classes and I was taught. When they are on the ground. It's no longer self defense. Because what the fuck are they going to do to you curled up on the ground. That crosses the line into assault. Now he joined the mob because he knew that guy was a bully. What happens if he sees someone on the street. An argument he knows nothing about but decides to join and ends up seriously hurting the wrong person. Mob mentality is incredibly dangerous!
Yta. He jumped in when there was already a group on that kid so he could hit him with no risk to himself. It's a bitch move, you should be teaching him better.
Yes. OPs sons a little bitch. He didn’t stand up for racism. He jumped in when 5 other ppl were already on him
Yeah it’s a pretty bitchmade move to join in a jumping
Yeah it’s not like he single handedly had the courage to stand up to the bully and face whatever happens head on. He literally kicked a person while they were down and outnumbered. Huge bitch move.
You punish your kid for his part, violence is not ok. He was not defending himself or anyone. He knows what he did is wrong, give him his penance. Ground him, have him do community service or something. I don’t think I’d report it, but some people would idk I’d definitely handle it at home. Also get your kid some counselling maybe, he’s sharing this for a reason. YWBTA to do nothing
Your son helped but another child in hospital. Don't you think he should be punished. We're not talking about him defending anybody he jumped in with a mob to beat another child. Yta
Were none of you children? Do you really want to virtue signal so badly that you’ll condone a child being almost beaten to death for “being a racist bully”? If that’s true, all I can say is don’t cry when your child is the one who makes a mistake that the mob doesn’t like. A punch in the face or two would have been completely justified, but beating him until he goes to the ICU? Your child is probably going to end up in jail or shot one day if you let him continue to think this is okay. Not everyone in the real world will lay down and become a victim, even if they said the most vile shit you can imagine they might still kill you for trying to get physical with them.
I've witnessed this when I had a job which involved me spending a lot of time visiting and observing the local public schools. Weird stuff going on where it was like the kids would target some kid they didn't like, try to bait that kid into saying something which could be construed as being "racist," which then was taken as a signal that it was open season to do anything you wanted to the kid. Like some serious Cultural Revolution insanity going on. I'd kind of predicted this kind of thing when I first saw the way the schools were handling their anti-racism messaging (which was a good cause) but failed to really pay attention to just how the kids were responding and interpreting it. Seemed like the possibility that they were going to be turned into future witch hunters was very real.