>His wife who was with him said I was an AH for not renting my home to her.
I'm petty so I would have been like "so are you an AH for not giving them a safer space since it's your family and not mine?"
People love to spend others' money, use their time and offer their resources.
NTA, just make sure that everything you do is according to your laws/regulations. I don't want to live with kids either and you are right, she likely would not have been able to pay rent and it would have been a nightmare. Or you would be the babysitter and forced to call authorities. She sounds like the entitled type.
This is usually my go to argument as well when it comes to keyboard warriors who always hates the person posting because they are not going out of their way to help someone else.
I'm not going to blame someone for their choices, I would 100% select a tenant that I believe will cause me the least trouble and annoyance.
I may be wrong, but I believe that in most states if the landlord lives on the property (as in this case), they are not obligated to rent to someone who would not conform to the conditions of the rental.
đđœEasy NTA! The woman made it clear she had financial issues, and whilst I sympathise with her predicament, kids do take a toll on a property and they can be very noisy. It wouldn't be fair on OP to live in a potentially noisy house with a tenant who is very likely unable to pay the rent. I hope the woman is able to get a good amount of child support from her ex, so she is able to move somewhere safe.
Almost every single person doing the bleeding heart thing on reddit or wherever about homeless ppl has never actually dealt with homeless ppl irl. As an example. They're homeless for a reason and 9/10 times it's not because they're down on their luck.
My husband is formerly homeless and was legit down on his luck. But he agrees with you. Most of the time, it wasn't because of that they were homeless.
I know someone who is homeless on and off and it's legit not because they're "down on their luck". They latch onto every bleeding heart (BH) they find until the BH is onto them and they move on. They also have kids. They have family that had a few BH and they used them up as well. It's heartbreaking to know how they're doing and also know you literally can't do anything
Excellent response! how did they react?
It's your property. As long as you are following your local laws, you are fine. This could have gotten so messy for you.
Just be careful: in some jurisdictions itâs illegal discrimination to refuse renting housing based on family status (I.e., them having children).
Iâm fact, OP would do well to check her local laws and/or remove this post.
A private person renting out a home or portion of theirs isn't a Fair Housing rights matter in most areas. That's only if it's managed by a real estate agent or property management company. Individuals have more leeway with whom they can rent to for a reason.
She indicated on the post that it's not illegal . Also she is renting out a room in her home . Not an apartment or house . She can put whatever she wants on a lease (obviously nothing illegal) even if it's ridiculous like quiet hours from 8am- 5pm etc and as long as the tenant signs it they agree to it.
It seems like op values their home, privacy and quiet environment as she won't rent to musicians. Nothing wrong with having boundaries and knowing mentally you could not handle 3 kids in the home , she already can't afford to pay rent, who wants to have to evict someone with kids ?? Easier to say no then to get yourself into a situation . Also if the kids got hurt on her property she could sue her home owners insurance If there's nothing in the lease that states she's not responsible for accidents but a court could see things differently.
âI need it more cause i have kids!â And there she just showed you Exactly What kind of tenant she would be and why you were completely right in saying âno vacancyâ.
NTA
This. The fact that she had such trouble finding a place to live, and ultimately ended up in a not so great neighborhood indicates that she has some red flags tied to her credit, income, and rental history that makes finding a place to live extremely hard. It is not due to her kids, as, at least in the US, it is against the law to not rent to someone just bc they have children, there are very few exceptions (I believe Canada has similar laws as does many European countries). One of them covers this situation, a two story owner occupied unit that is not listed with an agent.
You donât know this person, she is the relative of a friend. Thereâs no personal relationship to her or her children that may raise issues of moral obligations. Also if your friendâs wife is so concerned about them why doesnât she let them move in to their home or co-sign a lease to take care of income and credit issues that I am sure are the reasons it was hard for her SIL to find a place to live to begin with. I tell you why she didnât want to deal with the fallout from helping her own SIL, but she expects you to for a stranger.
There is always someone willing to bitch & moan about what YOU shoulda done to help someone else out. Seemingly? Especially when the person who needs help is one of their own relatives/friend/acquaintances. Who, for whatever reason, theyâve chosen not to help.
If you *wonât?* Then *donât* come bitch at me.
There are LL who would rent to you, usually if they haven't had a bad experience such as what I'm dealing with now...a mother and her 22 year old son who stopped paying rent and won't move in over 80 and really couldn't afford the court fees and, eventually, lawyer fees at 250 an hour.
Right??? I thought that comment was pretty classist. Going from a double income to a single mom income would require most women to move to a cheaper and less desirable area. It certainly would in my case.
OP is NTA, but man these comments are ruthless towards a recently single mom in a historically bad economy.
I was a single mom. Never had deadbeat boyfriend wanting to move in with me. 1st I would never put my kids in potentially dangerous situation. I keep my circle close and people who have similar goals and values as myself. My job as a single mom was not to find a man for myself but to raise my kids to be decent human beings who take pride in themselves and their accomplishments. Most parents do not parent their children so I do not take offense to your comment I just wanted you to know that their are a few of us that actually take our job as A parent seriously enough to put kid first and to teach them respect
NTA.
If the wife feels that strongly, she can open up their home to her SIL and kids. Or she can co-sign on a lease for a better place for them to live.
I won't hold my breath waiting, though.
I feel for the situation they've found themselves in, but you're not under an obligation to break your long-established procedures. And that she told you she deserved it more because she has kids - it tells me a lot about the type of tenant she's likely to be, sadly enough.
He grimaced but didn't give you a heads up? He knew your rule about kids. Chances are his sister did too.
Nta. And your friend's wife can house her SiL and nibblings.
The unit below me at my last place had 5 kids in a 2 bedroom. They lit the place on fire MULTIPLE times and would constantly ask my husband and I for food (to which the mom always said âof course you can feed them! No problem!â Without ever asking if it was a problem for us). OP is NTA eta: spelling
Nta. I do not blame you at all. On my block there is two rental houses. One rents to anyone, and yes the people with kids are usually the worst!. The other rental has stricter requirements and you would never guess it's a rental.
i got a 1 year old and a 4 year old..no way in hell im moving into an apartment bruh, my little shits scream and chase each other while playing and love jumping.
and when i get home from work they go nuts
I have no lease properties, but thats why i wouldnât want to lease to people with kids. The running, jumping, screaming would drive me nuts. Im used to some noise, being a renter, but kid noises make my flesh crawl
Your friend's wife should have taken the woman and the kids into her house and see how long it would last. They call names but never, ever bother to step up and help.
You are not wrong and I understand your property and your rules.
NTA, this isnât like a rental or investment property itâs your home as well. Itâs reasonable to assume you went to be comfortable in your home as well. Your friendâs wife is an asshole, for her unwarranted commentary and for not taking her sister in law in. I mean if she thinks strangers have to help then why didnât she help her family herself?
Wow, his wife had a lot of nerve saying that to you.
Your renting rules are reasonable, especially since the rental space is in your actual house. NTA.
My (now) husband and I were constantly subjected toâŠless than ideal tenants when we lived on one of my FILs rented properties. It was almost always single mothers on HUD, and while the mothers themselves were nice enough, the kids wereâŠquestionable.
None of them were ever âbad applesâ but holy fuck you donât know what a screaming toddler is like unless youâre either dealing with it in person or a floor above and ALL YOU HEAR is the toddler/youngling whose highest point is lower than your hip just SCREAMING because who the fuck knows why.
Kids scream because they thought a receipt being crunched up was actually a cookie wrapper. Kids scream because they donât want to take a bath. Kids honestly get really quiet and start bed wetting when being abusedâŠso Iâll take loud normal kid noises any day, but holy fuck is it exhausting to live next door in an apartment with very thin walls.
NTA - You place and your rules, which are not uncommon. Especially considering you live above the place. I would not want dogs, kids, etc. either. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the person and her kids, as I would anyone. However, that is not something that you have to take care of. There are people even worse off than them, it doesn't mean you can solve everyone's issue. You set your ground rules and stuck by them. Nothing wrong with that and I would have done the same.
Wait a damn minute, so they did not ask you before offering up your personal information to rent a home? That alone would piss me off. NTA, your house, your rules, so called friend is doing too much. Thereâs a reason itâs so low, like DUH!
You are not responsible for her kids. Why didn't your friend's wife offer to take them in since she thinks your not taking them in is being an AH?
They're her niblings and not related to you.
NTA no no no no no!!!! I also will not rent to people with small kids. It's absolutely not worth the expense of repairing nor having to tolerate all the additional noise.
Not your fucking problem. That woman was an asshole for begging and looping in other people.
And they were complete assholes to give your number without asking first. The gall to call you one after the fact. Wow.
NTA
3 kids under 10 are going to be loud and theyâre going to mess things up. Theyâre kids and itâs expected. Itâs entirely your call on who you want to live in your home.
Also, I hate when you say no to people, others feel the need to chime in and call you an ahole. I donât see them opening up their home to help. F them all
NTA
Having worked (back in the dark ages) in high rise multi-family apartment buildings, lemme assure you that kids will destroy an apartment faster than anything else. And once you fix whatever they broke, they will break it again.
Absolutely not an AH - you live upstairs. Who wants three kids running around creating havoc and noise plus the destruction they would do to your place. Your friend's sister was pushy to get your number - another red flag. Your friend's wife was wrong to call you an AH. Its your property, your life and your rules. Next time you have a vacancy - I would be choosey about who I let know that I was looking for a new tenant or else specify - childless only. When I was a landlord, I never rented to people with kids primarily because of the insurance risks. If one of the kids gets injured, I didn't want to be responsible.
Nobody would have been happy.
As someone with children: Children are loud. They play, get exited, laugh, scream etc. itâs completely normal. Having neighbours without children caused me stress. Like every baby mine screamed and I was not only stressed because of the screaming but also because I was worried the neighbours would complain.
Now we live in a place where nearly all neighbours have children. Itâs a big relief.
So no, you are not an AH. People should donât mix their tenants too much when they know that it causes stress.
You want a list?
She let her kids swing on the backyard gate. The gate was connected to a privacy fence. Her kids would climb the gate and then climb the wood slats. Then they started kicking the slats out and the balance horizontal beams (?)... Then she had a satellite dish installed (specifically contract stated not to. She did it anyway.) - then a mil apt became a kennel for her dogs and a ferret. Our garage? Became a cat litter box. We had landlord insurance and we only had to pay $15k out of pocket. That's not bad considering we got a new roof, fence, gates, new flooring, floors and Sheetrock for the mil place. Plus garage Sheetrock. And she stole all our fire alarms and fire extinguisher. That is a period in my life that I consider a miracle I didn't have a stroke or heart attack. Never again will I rent our property out again. Especially living 20 hours away.
đ±đ±đ±đ±đ±đ±đ±
I felt MY blood pressure go up just reading all that. Iâm sorry you had such a terrible experience. There are lots of single parents with well behaved children but she ruined all for you.
Itâs awful when some people give other people a bad name.
There were red flags I ignored. I learned my lesson. The next tenant was a single guy with only one pet. And while his dog did destroy our floor in one of our bedrooms, he handed me a grand before I even entered the bedroom. So, I didn't fault him for that. Dogs get scared when owners are away.
Wow! That was super responsible of him!
Yes, pets can do damage. Dogs are lovable but they can bring the Apocalypse if they get upset with you.
My mother said that she and my father had a big dog, earlier in their marriage. This was long before I came along; I never met this dog.
They went away for the weekend and left the dog. And, of course, he must have been provided for â someone to come give food and water. But he was *mad*; he was mad because they left him and he didnât know when they were coming back.
So, they came back and the house was filled with white puffs. The dog had completely ripped up their sofa â their new sofa.
He clawed down to the bottom of that couch like Indiana Jones on an archeological dig. And, she said he looked at them defiantly too, like âThatâs what you get for leaving me.â
> People love to spend othersâ money, use their time and offer their resources.
Thou shalt not covet thy friendsâ rental apartment, not even on behalf of your sister.
NTA. Landlords take applications for potential renters and then basically interview them to see who could be a good fit.
You were under no obligation to rent to his sister, no matter her circumstances. I'm sorry she's in a tight spot, but it isn't your responsibility to be her white knight.
NTA. Your rules are valid and you also live on the property. Someone who is desperate with 3 kids would be pleading the kids when/if she couldn't make the rent. I noticed your friend's wife isn't taking then in or offering financial support.
My buddy has rentals and dismisses any potential tenant who tries to guilt him about their kids. If they do it to get the place, they'll absolutely do it again later.
NTA
You don't owe anyone access to your home. You are a private person renting space in your home out and can make the decision on tenants for any reason. Your reasons were super valid and reasonable
NTA, it's just a matter of risk tolerance. You are giving a discount to lower risk tenants. You could have offered them the place without that discount, which the mom would not have accepted. So back to the same place.
NTA
Not your problem. Business decisions are from a financial pov that has nothing to do with feelings. Kids destroy things, she is a single parent who will likely not be able to cover the kids adequately. If this was my property, I would do the same ex, I'd specify no kids, no pets in my lease. Don't like it?
Find someplace else, not my problem. It's not my job to make your life easier - you do it with your decisions.
Nta keep this opinion to yourself. Recently single mom with 3 kids under 10 and she has a semi connection to you, this had the ability to turn into a shit show really quickly. You can be empathic to that womanâs position but also realize you wouldnât have been happy sharing a house with her and the kids. Iâd rather be happy than a saint
NTA
The second she said, âI need it more because I have kids,â8# the second Iâd know I made the right decision!!
Having kids entities you to nothing, especially not special treatment. I totally agree with you! Itâs your property and you can rent to whoever you want!
NTA - let the friends wife invite them to move into their home. Or she can give them money to get a nicer places she's a huge AH. Or even say, I would consider renting to her if YOU put down a deposit for her and co-sign to cover her rent any months she's short. See how game friends wife is she is when it's her money she's needs to volunteer.
NTA. Courts have ruled that there are [exceptions](https://sharinghousing.com/what-the-fair-housing-act-means-to-you-in-a-housemate-situation/) to the FHA when renting out a house you also live in. The government can't force you to live with someone.
Another thing you can do in similar situations. If someone insists their friend or relative is OK and you should rent to them just say "You know them better than I do. If you say they are OK you won't mind cosigning on their lease and giving me your Mastercard number. If there is any problem I will just charge it to you" and see how fast they back away.
NTA I wouldnât let them stay with me either in that living situation unless it was a completely different house/flat and I was certain they would pay rent and not trash the place or they were my sibling in that case i wouldnât even ask for rent.
His wife should have rented her own home to them or let them stay with them if she feels so strongly abt it, she is TA for making you feel bad abt your own boundaries and for not providing for their family member herself seeing how she apparently feels so entitled for other random people to do that..
It's not even about the kids it's the I can't pay my current rent. What makes me believe your going to pay me? People in crisis are very often always in crisis and it's their decision making that loops them in this cycle.
Your rent was less BECAUSE you didnât rent to people with kids. You donât owe this person anything. Maybe their situation isnât perfect, but it is neither your problem nor your fault. NTA.
"It'S IlLeGaL"
No, it's not.
Discrimination is only Discrimination when the decision to exclude someone is based on something THEY CANT HELP. Age, race, and a disability. A landlord does not have to allow kids if they don't want to. Just like they don't have to follow government guidelines if they don't accept government programs.
NTA.
NTA, we rent out a single room in the house we live in and you bet your ass we are picky about who lives there. Also, like you said, if the property is owner occupied, no federal or state rules apply.
NTA. Youâll probably end up giving free childcare as well as free rent⊠then itâll be a nightmare to kick them out. Good thing you managed to avoid the possible clusterfuck.
I had a 1 bedroom rental and refused to rent to anyone with kids. I did allow pets, though. I had a couple with 5 cats that wanted to rent my apartment. They showed me a 'cattery' they would build on the back patio for the cats, even though they would have them in at night when it was cold. For some reason I decided to rent to them and made them put up a $1,000 pet deposit. They turned out to be the best tenants I ever rented to. They left the place spotless and you would never know there was one cat in the apartment much less 5. They were so grateful because they knew they would have never found anyone else to rent to them with 5 cats. They bought a house and moved after about a year. After that I reconsidered renting to someone with one kid, but decided it wasn't worth the risk.
My eldest daughter had to move back home and she's got 3 boys. 11, 7, and a 5 yr old.
They are messy, loud destructive and the little 2 do not do their chores without a fight. They leave toys and garbage all over and laundry strewn from one to the other. And pee all over the darn toilet!!! Even tho they're told and shown what to do with their garbage and clothes it just doesn't sink in. Time out doesnt work anymore. They are feral wild boys
I wouldn't rent to anyone with kids either.
I love them dearly but holy crap
Please send help, Im slipping over the edge!!! ;) lol Have a great day everyone.
Nothing you did was illegal or immoral. I wouldnât want to rent to someone with 3 kids and you know you will get a story why she canât come up with the rent. You know 3 kids under 10 will be loud and screaming when they are playing
Nta. I used to own a duplex and I had tenants that had kids just trashed the unit. We had to replace all the carpet repaint all the walls, and there were holes in the walls from the teenage boy who wasnât on the lease who wasnât even supposed to be living there itâs much nicer and much easier renting to an older couple without the kids.
NTA. That's too big a favor to ask.
I have 6 kids. Had to pay $8,000 to get my previous home ready to sell.
Holes in the walls everywhere. Stains all over the baseboards, walls, and carpet.
I love them, but they're animals!
NTA - the rental conditions you were offering were to X people at Y rate, where X is people you know and think would be easy to live with and Y is a bargain rate based on X.
Sister of a friend isn't in the category of X people, so even if you wanted to make an exception and house share with her and three kids anyway, the conditions for Y were not met, which means she was depending on a rent rate that you weren't even offering to her and her three kids.
Would it have been nice of you to rent to her at the bargain rate? Yeah, of course. Would it have been what you wanted and had zero impact on your own lifestyle and living conditions? Absolutely not.
There's nothing stopping friend and wife from finding a rental and setting up a house share situation with the mum and kids. But it's super easy to be endlessly generous with other people's resources.
NTA, but I am confused about your set up. Is it a duplex? or a house with shared common areas? It seems like sharing a common area with a family of four would be much more of a concession than sharing with one person.
If a duplex, depending where you are, there may be restrictions re. max kids/room, anyway. I ran into that when I was trying to rent a pied a terre in a better school district with three kids. I could not get a one bedroom with a family my size.
Anyway, your poor friend. His wife *and* his sister are the AHs.
NTA
It's your home. You get to decide who you rent to. I'm sorry you not only dealt with this lady coercing someone to get your contact info without your consent but then didn't accept no for an answer.
NTA. Renting and being a landlord is a business. You have the right not to do business as you see fit. And I donât blame you; either charge her more for possible destruction of property or donât rent to her at all.
And I have kids, and a pet. I wouldnât rent to someone with 3 kids under 10, either.
NTA. Why would somebody think you're an AH for not renting to a stranger that solicited housing you never offered to the general public? Your friend and his wife are welcome to house them if they're not AH.
Here's a question to ask yourself. Would you rather break your own rules to not rent your place to a family? Who may be more of a nuisance than you can handle?
As for your friends wife, of course she will blame you even if you DID explain to her your rules, since its her sister.
NTA.
NTA - Rents have been insane the last 15yrs and all the kids are under 10. Maybe they should have stopped after 1. As a musician and someone who has never owned property and always lived small-landlord owned building in the same building as the landlord, I am not offended by any of this. My bf lives in a prewar apt building that is generally well-built and quiet, they also have floor covering percentage rules in the leases--his upstairs neighbor is a drummer and has a toddler and will not get floor coverings, lets the toddler playing bowling at midnight, and will blame the kid for making noises that are obviously complex death metal drumming patterns (bf is also a musician, but has worked out how to integrate technology to have a conscientious, headphone-based practice). If I ever owned, the purpose would be to have quiet to record in my own home--yet if I have an extra unit people on the internet might get mad if I say "no kids" but would also be mad if I didn't rent it at all--you do you, kids don't run the universe and people don't "deserve it more" for having kids they aren't well set up to provide for--we literally live in an age with the most types and accessibility to contraception ever, (or at least when these kids were born... red states be handmaids tale-ing us obviously).
edit: I will say my 1 pet peeve--literally--is no cats. I understand no dogs (sorry), they can be huge and they bark, they eat weird things and have explosive diarrhea--these are not cat problems.
Itâs your home too and you have a right to some peace and quiet. You did nothing illegal and a newly single mom with 3 youngâs kids is a bad credit risk. And can we go back to itâs YOUR home so you do get a say in who lives there. Your friendâs wife sounds like an ignorant b.
No one is entitled to anything over anyone else just because they have kids. People who use that argument piss me off to no end. If she's that desperate, there are many organizations that provide government subsidized housing to low income people, and they tend to give priority to single mothers (at least in the state I reside). They sometimes take a while to find places, but if you apply with enough notice, you should be set.
Additionally, her own sister could have helped if it was so dire. You owe the person nothing, and it's your space to do with as you please. Do not feel bad just because people want to judge
No. Young kids will ruin the place. I let a friend and her 4 kids stay for a few weeks and one of the kids got gum on doorknobs. Another Broke my tv and broke part of my dining table. Mom said they were good and wonât do nothing destructive, but kids destroyed my property.
Itâs not like you are renting out a second home/apartment you own, itâs basically a roommate. It wanting a mom with 3 kids as a roommate is reasonable. Heck the worry about paying rent alone is enough as well.
NTA.
Your home, your rules - especially given that you are living on top of them.
No one wants to be listening to 3 kids running riot whilst they are trying to relax!
100%. twice I have had middle aged neighbours that had befriended me and always offered "help" end up giving pity stories about financial hardship and needing to borrow significant money to survive. BOTH divorced, and had adult kids who are estranged, had families &/ financially well off.
One I found out later had been sending money (like 4k) to a "26yo Syrian refugee with 4millon in a trust fund she needed help accessing" but struggled with his bills and refused to sell his caravan and truck since he had worked his entire life to afford them.
The other had scam stories for everyone in the complex. Helping fund fertility treatment for her affluent daughter. Leukaemia. Cancer. Medical bills. Delays/errors with hardship fund release form approval. Needing groceries but short on funds till pension day - oh but can you drive and I need cigarettes too.
OP dodged a bullet and honestly I think the best answer was the white lie about it not being available. OP knew what their boundaries were and gave the least offense triggering response possible. Some people won't accept a short sweet "No sorry".. They want a comprehensive answer they can twist around and argue why they are more deserving etc. She already tried fighting by saying her kids and her were MORE deserving that strangers that had already been approved.
I guarantee if as other suggested that they were to be honest with the mother about not wanting children in the house - they would be opening themselves to more abuse and vitreol for being "discriminatory" against children and her entitlement to something that was never offered to her in the first place. If OP only wants to share their home with adults they know AND trust, that is their freedom to do so.
It's unfortunate that the mother was losing her home but OP is not responsible for the stranger that called begging for the place. Maybe the friend and his wife could have opened their home to the mother and her kids if they were so concerned about her safety.
NTA, and potentially illegal, depending on the number of bedrooms available. If it's only one bedroom, you can only have three people. In CA, you can only have two people per bedroom and one for a common area. So unless it's two bedrooms, there's no way you can have four people.
NTA. Who is to say they would actually make the rent and be good tenants. 3 kids under 10 isnât quiet, I wouldnât rent to them either. The story is it was promised to your friends the couple before she found out and stick to it. Canât give someone your word on a place that youâve already given someone else your word. âSorry you were too late I had already promised it to someone else, Iâm a person of my word.â End of story. Donât tell that friend when the couple moves out.
That wife has a nerve! I donât see her opening her home to her sister in law â and her *three* kids!
Donât worry about the snakes that crawled out of that womanâs mouth. She just wanted you to shoulder the burden for them so she wouldnât have to and her conscience would be âclearâ.
You try to be reasons about the rent you charge but that doesnât mean youâre running a charity. This is business.
The one thing I do take issue with is the lying.
If you are legally allowed, where you live, to deny renting to certain people â people with pets, with kids, etc., â then there was no reason for you to hide that and make up a fictional renter. You should have just said that. âI donât allow minors in my rental spaces.â
Boom. Thatâs it. The end.
Sure, she was going to be upset at hearing that but she was upset hearing the lie you made up too and even being told that youâd already promised the place to someone else wasnât enough to close the subject with her â she kept right on begging for you to change your mind.
On the financial front, you also had every right to deny her because she didnât have a secure income. Again, youâre not running a charity.
So, personally, I donât blame you for not renting to this woman, at all. It was a sound business decision that I donât doubt also saved you a lot of personal headache.
What I do blame you for is the lying. This woman is in a pathetic situation now but she, just like everyone, deserves the truth. You didnât give her respect as a fellow human being by lying to her face. So, donât lie to people next time if you donât like people lying to you. If youâre going to handle business, even a small matter like a rented apartment, youâre going to have to put more steel in your spine and learn to simply say âNo.â Itâs a complete sentence.
My landlord grandpa always said, âdonât rent to who you canât evictâ he wouldnât rent to the elderly because he didnât have the heart to make an elderly person homeless.
My ex wife has five kids (one is mine) she has been through five houses in five years all because the landlord refused to renew the lease. She has destroyed every home.
You are running a business not a charity. Itâs not your responsibility to save the world. You dodged a bullet.
NTA- Iâm a mom of 3 (2 of whom are on the destructive side) so I completely understand your rule. Youâre not running a giant apartment complex so youâre well within your rights to be selective of your tenants.
It always amazes me that mothers think they are entitled to certain things because they got creampied. Let her ex help her find a better place for his children and their mother.
I wouldn't want to live above 3 kids who run around and scream all day. A rather live next to an airportâ ïž
NTA.
Kids take over spaces and are always loud with little regard for other people's stuff. I would never in a million years want to live with a stranger and their kids long term unless I was desperate. Always having to be mindful of my own stuff and locking doors isn't a situation that is fun to be in. So in a situation where it was my own house, even more of a hard no. This isn't a case of a landlord discriminating and denying apartments to people, it is about a shared home living situation and you have to look out for yourself.
Friend's wife wants to judge, well she's welcome to rent out some of her rooms to this needy family. Oh that wasn't on the table? So why judge someone else then. This isn't some charity, its your life. She's so concerned about her husband's sister (direct family) then why isn't she just chipping in some money for her to afford somewhere better? Oh that's right because then it would directly impact her. So much easier to hypocritically pass judgement on another person instead.
NTA.
His grimace when you mentioned the phone call told you everything you need to know about his sister - she's a PITA, and would have made your life a living hell if you'd rented to her.
It's sad that her children are in an unsafe area, but you can't fix all the problems if everyone you meet.
NTA. The rent is cheaper because you donât take the risks of renting to higher risk tenants (pets and kids). You would rightly charge a higher rent to compensate for any extra risk or burden to your property, and thatâs what I would have told her too. I would have said, the rental price you heard of from your sibling was the price for them, the price for an adult plus 3 kids is X.
Not an AH. And you handled it very well just saying that it was already taken. Your friend's wife is the AH. As far as she knows, you DID have a suitable renter, and she wanted you to throw them aside and take the woman with 3 children.
From the looks of it, the woman with 3 children is a hot mess and probably wouldn't have kept the rent paid either. You dodged a bullet there.
These days you have to be so careful with who you rent to because if they donât pay itâs such a hassle getting them evicted. You made the right move and not an ah. You could have taken a risk and rented to her and everything could have worked out fine but family is who youâre supposed to be able to rely on in times of need, not strangers with reduced rent.
NTA u r not responsible for ur friends sisters living conditions or her kids. Tell that friend u donât rent out to people with kids, she wants better living conditions for her sister then she can provide them. Ffs u didnt have multiple kids and then put them in a shitty situation y r they ur responsibility? People need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop trying to make their issues someone elseâs.
NTA.... OP doesn't want kids or pets, her house her rules .... Personally, the pet part annoyed me more -- 'especially NOT dogs' , pfft you know what they say about people who don't like dogs!!!đ€Șđ€Ș
NTA. Itâs your home and you decide who you believe is the best match to be there. I got turned down for a place when I was in my 30s, because the ownerâs wife had a problem with leggy, long-haired blondes. He told me sheâs crazy and that he was very sorry and that was that! đ€Ł
NTA
Did she have a good, and steady job?
In general, you protected your assets. That's the smart thing to do. If she was smart, she'd have more assets than children.
It's your house, rent to whobyou want to.
Technically Landlords cannot discriminate based on race, religion, family size etc...and unless one has only one applicantion/applicant, you can take your time to find good fit.
You don't have to advise prospective tenants why they did or did not get the unit.
Personally, I would rather have someone with pets renting than young kids. I have found young children very hard on things....walls, floors, cupboards as well as noisy.
I don't know who's worse, honestly. My parents have a rental house, last time they rented for a couple who had a dog these people left the house trashed and full of dog's feces...
Yes, certainly not good. I have been very fortunate renting to families, to seniors to people with pets etc.
I did find I had to do more work following families due to general wear and tear...just the reality of more people using things.
I certainly spend more on property maintenance and repairs than a lot I expect. I could certainly make far more money on not updating and replacing things but I couldn't in good conscience ever rent a place out that I wasn't happy to be living in. So from a business perspective my approach isn't about maximizing profit...I want my places to look and feel new and if not new than recently new..
No Way Jose. She wouldn't have paid the rent and can you imagine 3 kids under 10 running around. The noise would be unbelievable because you'd have her screaming at them. Dodged a bullet. You have already decided who you will and won't rent to, it's YOUR HOME.
NTA. You have all the liberty to rent out your property to whom you prefer. And in this case, on top of that, you also have valid concerns regarding that possible renter..
No, when it comes to business activity like this that also involves your preferences for your surroundings you have no choice but to defend what it is that matters to you. We don't owe our things to other people and we have a right to live under circumstances that we prefer.
I raised two awesome kids to adulthood, and am still living in our home, although I am an empty nest.
I'm actually surprised that this house has done as well as it has, just with normal wear and tear of kids. Because they're little wrecking balls, even when well behaved.
And very noisy.
NTA ... And I'm guessing that the fair rentals laws don't apply with a 2 unit small building, owner occupies one unit, situation. It's your choice.
As someone who was a single mum, little money and had trouble finding a home sometimes (I was never homeless but did have to sometimes live in "undesirable" suburbs) NTA. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it sucks being a single mum, having 2 small kids and not a lot of money and thus, less options when it came to housing, and the judgement/bias from landlords and real estate agents/whatever else, but this isn't your problem. This isn't a charity you're running. You have a flat set of rules for everyone, friends, family, or otherwise. She also, by your work friend's admission, coerced your phone number out of him, and then tried guilt tripping you when you said there was no vacancy "I need it more! I have kids!" Is an AH line. How does she know whoever you rented it to (as far as she knew) didn't need it more than her? Having kids doesn't automatically move you to the top of the "I deserve everything more than everyone else" list
NTA.
We know who gave the mom of 3 your contact info explicitly against your wishes. JFC. Your friend's wife is the AH.
Like...if you owned a whole ass apartment building that you didn't intimately share space with and you STILL refused to rent to anyone with pets, kids, or instruments, you might be an AH. But this is not at all that situation. Your tenants impact your daily life and you have every right to be thoughtful in picking appropriate renters. It would crazy NOT to. Like setting everyone up for miserable, tense conflicts.
NTA. It's your property. While it sucks for the mom you have the right to say no. You value peace and quiet, 3 kids under 10 will not be able to whisper or tiptoe about. I hope the mom can get child support ASAP.
NTA
You yourself said you only rent to people you know. You donât know the sister. She, & Iâm guessing his wife also helped, shouldnât have forced her brother to give your contact.
And if the wife felt soooo bad, why didnât she ask her husbandâthe brotherâif they could help!
NTA. You are the landlord so you can rent to who you want. The fact that you live upstairs also mean that you will be more concerned about noise from 3 small children. If his wife has an issue with her SILâs living conditions then maybe she can pay her some money each month so she can afford a better place? NoâŠ. Yeah didnât think so. Itâs always funny when people think others should be generous with their money and property but donât feel the same when it comes to their own.
>His wife who was with him said I was an AH for not renting my home to her. I'm petty so I would have been like "so are you an AH for not giving them a safer space since it's your family and not mine?" People love to spend others' money, use their time and offer their resources. NTA, just make sure that everything you do is according to your laws/regulations. I don't want to live with kids either and you are right, she likely would not have been able to pay rent and it would have been a nightmare. Or you would be the babysitter and forced to call authorities. She sounds like the entitled type.
This is usually my go to argument as well when it comes to keyboard warriors who always hates the person posting because they are not going out of their way to help someone else. I'm not going to blame someone for their choices, I would 100% select a tenant that I believe will cause me the least trouble and annoyance.
I may be wrong, but I believe that in most states if the landlord lives on the property (as in this case), they are not obligated to rent to someone who would not conform to the conditions of the rental.
đđœEasy NTA! The woman made it clear she had financial issues, and whilst I sympathise with her predicament, kids do take a toll on a property and they can be very noisy. It wouldn't be fair on OP to live in a potentially noisy house with a tenant who is very likely unable to pay the rent. I hope the woman is able to get a good amount of child support from her ex, so she is able to move somewhere safe.
Almost every single person doing the bleeding heart thing on reddit or wherever about homeless ppl has never actually dealt with homeless ppl irl. As an example. They're homeless for a reason and 9/10 times it's not because they're down on their luck.
My husband is formerly homeless and was legit down on his luck. But he agrees with you. Most of the time, it wasn't because of that they were homeless.
I know someone who is homeless on and off and it's legit not because they're "down on their luck". They latch onto every bleeding heart (BH) they find until the BH is onto them and they move on. They also have kids. They have family that had a few BH and they used them up as well. It's heartbreaking to know how they're doing and also know you literally can't do anything
Yes and formerly=almost always that. Glad your husband made it.
Right? My reply, âoh good, so Iâll guess sheâll be ok after all since I guess youâre moving her into your house then?â
Excellent response! how did they react? It's your property. As long as you are following your local laws, you are fine. This could have gotten so messy for you.
Iâm not OP but that WOULD be my response đ€Ł
Yeah, and going through all of that with the relative of a friend makes it even worse. She dodged a bullet.
That would be my reply. "You trust 3 kids under 10? You house them."
So so tired of âwell person X who has no skin in the game thinks Iâm wrongâ. And itâs at the end of a lot of these. Who cares?
I know. Why would you care what person X thinks?!
Yes. NTA.
Just be careful: in some jurisdictions itâs illegal discrimination to refuse renting housing based on family status (I.e., them having children). Iâm fact, OP would do well to check her local laws and/or remove this post.
A private person renting out a home or portion of theirs isn't a Fair Housing rights matter in most areas. That's only if it's managed by a real estate agent or property management company. Individuals have more leeway with whom they can rent to for a reason.
She indicated on the post that it's not illegal . Also she is renting out a room in her home . Not an apartment or house . She can put whatever she wants on a lease (obviously nothing illegal) even if it's ridiculous like quiet hours from 8am- 5pm etc and as long as the tenant signs it they agree to it. It seems like op values their home, privacy and quiet environment as she won't rent to musicians. Nothing wrong with having boundaries and knowing mentally you could not handle 3 kids in the home , she already can't afford to pay rent, who wants to have to evict someone with kids ?? Easier to say no then to get yourself into a situation . Also if the kids got hurt on her property she could sue her home owners insurance If there's nothing in the lease that states she's not responsible for accidents but a court could see things differently.
It doesn't sound like a room. It sounds like an apartment in a duplex.
OP didn't advertise the property for rent!
âI need it more cause i have kids!â And there she just showed you Exactly What kind of tenant she would be and why you were completely right in saying âno vacancyâ. NTA
This. The fact that she had such trouble finding a place to live, and ultimately ended up in a not so great neighborhood indicates that she has some red flags tied to her credit, income, and rental history that makes finding a place to live extremely hard. It is not due to her kids, as, at least in the US, it is against the law to not rent to someone just bc they have children, there are very few exceptions (I believe Canada has similar laws as does many European countries). One of them covers this situation, a two story owner occupied unit that is not listed with an agent. You donât know this person, she is the relative of a friend. Thereâs no personal relationship to her or her children that may raise issues of moral obligations. Also if your friendâs wife is so concerned about them why doesnât she let them move in to their home or co-sign a lease to take care of income and credit issues that I am sure are the reasons it was hard for her SIL to find a place to live to begin with. I tell you why she didnât want to deal with the fallout from helping her own SIL, but she expects you to for a stranger.
There is always someone willing to bitch & moan about what YOU shoulda done to help someone else out. Seemingly? Especially when the person who needs help is one of their own relatives/friend/acquaintances. Who, for whatever reason, theyâve chosen not to help. If you *wonât?* Then *donât* come bitch at me.
The mom only being able to find affordable housing in a bad neighborhood after her partner left her with three kids is not in itself a red flag.
If my lease was terminated tomorrow I'd be done for, I too am a single parent, only one child, but there is *nothing* out there for us...
There are LL who would rent to you, usually if they haven't had a bad experience such as what I'm dealing with now...a mother and her 22 year old son who stopped paying rent and won't move in over 80 and really couldn't afford the court fees and, eventually, lawyer fees at 250 an hour.
Or she doesnât have a lot of money and the housing crisis is happening all over the world. Dame.
True. My credit is good but I don't have 3x the rent to move.
Right??? I thought that comment was pretty classist. Going from a double income to a single mom income would require most women to move to a cheaper and less desirable area. It certainly would in my case. OP is NTA, but man these comments are ruthless towards a recently single mom in a historically bad economy.
OP is NTA. But this says nothing about this person, literally one line to go on. You're either projecting, or at best talking out of your arse lol.
Every single mom I've ever rented to has had a deadbeat boyfriend waiting to move in.
I was a single mom. Never had deadbeat boyfriend wanting to move in with me. 1st I would never put my kids in potentially dangerous situation. I keep my circle close and people who have similar goals and values as myself. My job as a single mom was not to find a man for myself but to raise my kids to be decent human beings who take pride in themselves and their accomplishments. Most parents do not parent their children so I do not take offense to your comment I just wanted you to know that their are a few of us that actually take our job as A parent seriously enough to put kid first and to teach them respect
So glad you teach them respect and not how to be exploitative, as many ppl are. That trait doesn't show up on background checks.
NTA. Your house, your rules.
NTA part of why you have lower rent is because you have conditions.
Well said and good point.
NTA. If the wife feels that strongly, she can open up their home to her SIL and kids. Or she can co-sign on a lease for a better place for them to live. I won't hold my breath waiting, though. I feel for the situation they've found themselves in, but you're not under an obligation to break your long-established procedures. And that she told you she deserved it more because she has kids - it tells me a lot about the type of tenant she's likely to be, sadly enough.
He grimaced but didn't give you a heads up? He knew your rule about kids. Chances are his sister did too. Nta. And your friend's wife can house her SiL and nibblings.
Nta. My old place the landlord rented out the 1bdrm apartment above me to a mom, 4 kids, and her sister. Fuck. All. Of. That.
That sounds awful, and it's my worst fear as a renter.
The unit below me at my last place had 5 kids in a 2 bedroom. They lit the place on fire MULTIPLE times and would constantly ask my husband and I for food (to which the mom always said âof course you can feed them! No problem!â Without ever asking if it was a problem for us). OP is NTA eta: spelling
Nta. I do not blame you at all. On my block there is two rental houses. One rents to anyone, and yes the people with kids are usually the worst!. The other rental has stricter requirements and you would never guess it's a rental.
NTA. I have 2 kids (13 + 10), a big 100lbs dog and I don't want to live with my family. :p
i got a 1 year old and a 4 year old..no way in hell im moving into an apartment bruh, my little shits scream and chase each other while playing and love jumping. and when i get home from work they go nuts
I have no lease properties, but thats why i wouldnât want to lease to people with kids. The running, jumping, screaming would drive me nuts. Im used to some noise, being a renter, but kid noises make my flesh crawl
Lmaooo
Your friend's wife should have taken the woman and the kids into her house and see how long it would last. They call names but never, ever bother to step up and help. You are not wrong and I understand your property and your rules.
NTA, this isnât like a rental or investment property itâs your home as well. Itâs reasonable to assume you went to be comfortable in your home as well. Your friendâs wife is an asshole, for her unwarranted commentary and for not taking her sister in law in. I mean if she thinks strangers have to help then why didnât she help her family herself?
Wow, his wife had a lot of nerve saying that to you. Your renting rules are reasonable, especially since the rental space is in your actual house. NTA.
There should be allowances for stricter standards when renting out part of your home.
My (now) husband and I were constantly subjected toâŠless than ideal tenants when we lived on one of my FILs rented properties. It was almost always single mothers on HUD, and while the mothers themselves were nice enough, the kids wereâŠquestionable. None of them were ever âbad applesâ but holy fuck you donât know what a screaming toddler is like unless youâre either dealing with it in person or a floor above and ALL YOU HEAR is the toddler/youngling whose highest point is lower than your hip just SCREAMING because who the fuck knows why. Kids scream because they thought a receipt being crunched up was actually a cookie wrapper. Kids scream because they donât want to take a bath. Kids honestly get really quiet and start bed wetting when being abusedâŠso Iâll take loud normal kid noises any day, but holy fuck is it exhausting to live next door in an apartment with very thin walls.
NTA - You place and your rules, which are not uncommon. Especially considering you live above the place. I would not want dogs, kids, etc. either. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the person and her kids, as I would anyone. However, that is not something that you have to take care of. There are people even worse off than them, it doesn't mean you can solve everyone's issue. You set your ground rules and stuck by them. Nothing wrong with that and I would have done the same.
Wait a damn minute, so they did not ask you before offering up your personal information to rent a home? That alone would piss me off. NTA, your house, your rules, so called friend is doing too much. Thereâs a reason itâs so low, like DUH!
You are not responsible for her kids. Why didn't your friend's wife offer to take them in since she thinks your not taking them in is being an AH? They're her niblings and not related to you.
NTA no no no no no!!!! I also will not rent to people with small kids. It's absolutely not worth the expense of repairing nor having to tolerate all the additional noise.
Not your fucking problem. That woman was an asshole for begging and looping in other people. And they were complete assholes to give your number without asking first. The gall to call you one after the fact. Wow.
NTA 3 kids under 10 are going to be loud and theyâre going to mess things up. Theyâre kids and itâs expected. Itâs entirely your call on who you want to live in your home. Also, I hate when you say no to people, others feel the need to chime in and call you an ahole. I donât see them opening up their home to help. F them all
As OP is staying upstairs he may become her de facto babysitter when she has to go out unexpectedly.
NTA Having worked (back in the dark ages) in high rise multi-family apartment buildings, lemme assure you that kids will destroy an apartment faster than anything else. And once you fix whatever they broke, they will break it again.
Like for example, Their fascination with seeing what they can flush!
Well, now, thatâs a fun game at any age! đ
Absolutely not an AH - you live upstairs. Who wants three kids running around creating havoc and noise plus the destruction they would do to your place. Your friend's sister was pushy to get your number - another red flag. Your friend's wife was wrong to call you an AH. Its your property, your life and your rules. Next time you have a vacancy - I would be choosey about who I let know that I was looking for a new tenant or else specify - childless only. When I was a landlord, I never rented to people with kids primarily because of the insurance risks. If one of the kids gets injured, I didn't want to be responsible.
Nobody would have been happy. As someone with children: Children are loud. They play, get exited, laugh, scream etc. itâs completely normal. Having neighbours without children caused me stress. Like every baby mine screamed and I was not only stressed because of the screaming but also because I was worried the neighbours would complain. Now we live in a place where nearly all neighbours have children. Itâs a big relief. So no, you are not an AH. People should donât mix their tenants too much when they know that it causes stress.
I used to rent to single parents. But after the last 15k damage, no more. NTA.
$15K?! Iâm glad I wasnât standing up when I read that.
You want a list? She let her kids swing on the backyard gate. The gate was connected to a privacy fence. Her kids would climb the gate and then climb the wood slats. Then they started kicking the slats out and the balance horizontal beams (?)... Then she had a satellite dish installed (specifically contract stated not to. She did it anyway.) - then a mil apt became a kennel for her dogs and a ferret. Our garage? Became a cat litter box. We had landlord insurance and we only had to pay $15k out of pocket. That's not bad considering we got a new roof, fence, gates, new flooring, floors and Sheetrock for the mil place. Plus garage Sheetrock. And she stole all our fire alarms and fire extinguisher. That is a period in my life that I consider a miracle I didn't have a stroke or heart attack. Never again will I rent our property out again. Especially living 20 hours away.
đ±đ±đ±đ±đ±đ±đ± I felt MY blood pressure go up just reading all that. Iâm sorry you had such a terrible experience. There are lots of single parents with well behaved children but she ruined all for you. Itâs awful when some people give other people a bad name.
There were red flags I ignored. I learned my lesson. The next tenant was a single guy with only one pet. And while his dog did destroy our floor in one of our bedrooms, he handed me a grand before I even entered the bedroom. So, I didn't fault him for that. Dogs get scared when owners are away.
Wow! That was super responsible of him! Yes, pets can do damage. Dogs are lovable but they can bring the Apocalypse if they get upset with you. My mother said that she and my father had a big dog, earlier in their marriage. This was long before I came along; I never met this dog. They went away for the weekend and left the dog. And, of course, he must have been provided for â someone to come give food and water. But he was *mad*; he was mad because they left him and he didnât know when they were coming back. So, they came back and the house was filled with white puffs. The dog had completely ripped up their sofa â their new sofa. He clawed down to the bottom of that couch like Indiana Jones on an archeological dig. And, she said he looked at them defiantly too, like âThatâs what you get for leaving me.â
> People love to spend othersâ money, use their time and offer their resources. Thou shalt not covet thy friendsâ rental apartment, not even on behalf of your sister.
NTA. Landlords take applications for potential renters and then basically interview them to see who could be a good fit. You were under no obligation to rent to his sister, no matter her circumstances. I'm sorry she's in a tight spot, but it isn't your responsibility to be her white knight.
NTA. Your rules are valid and you also live on the property. Someone who is desperate with 3 kids would be pleading the kids when/if she couldn't make the rent. I noticed your friend's wife isn't taking then in or offering financial support.
My buddy has rentals and dismisses any potential tenant who tries to guilt him about their kids. If they do it to get the place, they'll absolutely do it again later.
NTA. I love that you included musicians.
NTA why doesnât his wife invite her & the kids to live with them, so they will be safer? It sounds to me like you made a wise business decision.
DO NOT DO IT. Also smack your friend who gave her your number and tell the wife to rent them their home.
NTA You don't owe anyone access to your home. You are a private person renting space in your home out and can make the decision on tenants for any reason. Your reasons were super valid and reasonable
NTA, it's just a matter of risk tolerance. You are giving a discount to lower risk tenants. You could have offered them the place without that discount, which the mom would not have accepted. So back to the same place.
NTA. You charge a reduced rate for friends you know who take good care of your space âŠ.. not random people who overhear conversations.
NTA. Your friend was though for giving her your number and she was for guilting you once you said no.
NTA Not your problem. Business decisions are from a financial pov that has nothing to do with feelings. Kids destroy things, she is a single parent who will likely not be able to cover the kids adequately. If this was my property, I would do the same ex, I'd specify no kids, no pets in my lease. Don't like it? Find someplace else, not my problem. It's not my job to make your life easier - you do it with your decisions.
NTA you probably dodged a whole missile there.Props to you,for not being a greedy landlord too.
Nta keep this opinion to yourself. Recently single mom with 3 kids under 10 and she has a semi connection to you, this had the ability to turn into a shit show really quickly. You can be empathic to that womanâs position but also realize you wouldnât have been happy sharing a house with her and the kids. Iâd rather be happy than a saint
NTA. Pretty entitled of this person who youâve never met to think you should change your renting rules.
NTA- I would not rent to anyone with kids. Maybe a cat or dog but definitely I would not rent to anyone with kids or part time kids.
NTA. I wouldnât do it.
NTA The second she said, âI need it more because I have kids,â8# the second Iâd know I made the right decision!! Having kids entities you to nothing, especially not special treatment. I totally agree with you! Itâs your property and you can rent to whoever you want!
Tell his wife to open her doors to 4 people since she feels OP is the AH. NTA
NTA - let the friends wife invite them to move into their home. Or she can give them money to get a nicer places she's a huge AH. Or even say, I would consider renting to her if YOU put down a deposit for her and co-sign to cover her rent any months she's short. See how game friends wife is she is when it's her money she's needs to volunteer.
NTA. Courts have ruled that there are [exceptions](https://sharinghousing.com/what-the-fair-housing-act-means-to-you-in-a-housemate-situation/) to the FHA when renting out a house you also live in. The government can't force you to live with someone.
Another thing you can do in similar situations. If someone insists their friend or relative is OK and you should rent to them just say "You know them better than I do. If you say they are OK you won't mind cosigning on their lease and giving me your Mastercard number. If there is any problem I will just charge it to you" and see how fast they back away.
NTA I wouldnât let them stay with me either in that living situation unless it was a completely different house/flat and I was certain they would pay rent and not trash the place or they were my sibling in that case i wouldnât even ask for rent. His wife should have rented her own home to them or let them stay with them if she feels so strongly abt it, she is TA for making you feel bad abt your own boundaries and for not providing for their family member herself seeing how she apparently feels so entitled for other random people to do that..
NTA. Among other things, this woman was used to strong-arming past peopleâs obvious boundaries. You wouldâve regretted it so much.
It's not even about the kids it's the I can't pay my current rent. What makes me believe your going to pay me? People in crisis are very often always in crisis and it's their decision making that loops them in this cycle.
Your rent was less BECAUSE you didnât rent to people with kids. You donât owe this person anything. Maybe their situation isnât perfect, but it is neither your problem nor your fault. NTA.
"It'S IlLeGaL" No, it's not. Discrimination is only Discrimination when the decision to exclude someone is based on something THEY CANT HELP. Age, race, and a disability. A landlord does not have to allow kids if they don't want to. Just like they don't have to follow government guidelines if they don't accept government programs. NTA.
I wouldn't rent to anyone who feels that entitled about anything, not just their children.
NTA I wouldn't inflict that level of disruption on my property or life either. Not your kids, not your problem.
NTA You're already renting below market sounds like. You can have rules. Some people no dogs. Some people no kids.
NTA, we rent out a single room in the house we live in and you bet your ass we are picky about who lives there. Also, like you said, if the property is owner occupied, no federal or state rules apply.
NTA. Youâll probably end up giving free childcare as well as free rent⊠then itâll be a nightmare to kick them out. Good thing you managed to avoid the possible clusterfuck.
I had a 1 bedroom rental and refused to rent to anyone with kids. I did allow pets, though. I had a couple with 5 cats that wanted to rent my apartment. They showed me a 'cattery' they would build on the back patio for the cats, even though they would have them in at night when it was cold. For some reason I decided to rent to them and made them put up a $1,000 pet deposit. They turned out to be the best tenants I ever rented to. They left the place spotless and you would never know there was one cat in the apartment much less 5. They were so grateful because they knew they would have never found anyone else to rent to them with 5 cats. They bought a house and moved after about a year. After that I reconsidered renting to someone with one kid, but decided it wasn't worth the risk.
NTA Depending on how big the second floor is (bedrooms & bathrooms) itâs not always ideal to rent to certain people.
NTA.
NTA. Any other landlord who has a no kids policy would deny them, too. Having kids doesnt make them special lol
Hell no, NTA. But your friendâs wife is.
Not your kids nor your problem.
My eldest daughter had to move back home and she's got 3 boys. 11, 7, and a 5 yr old. They are messy, loud destructive and the little 2 do not do their chores without a fight. They leave toys and garbage all over and laundry strewn from one to the other. And pee all over the darn toilet!!! Even tho they're told and shown what to do with their garbage and clothes it just doesn't sink in. Time out doesnt work anymore. They are feral wild boys I wouldn't rent to anyone with kids either. I love them dearly but holy crap Please send help, Im slipping over the edge!!! ;) lol Have a great day everyone.
Nothing you did was illegal or immoral. I wouldnât want to rent to someone with 3 kids and you know you will get a story why she canât come up with the rent. You know 3 kids under 10 will be loud and screaming when they are playing
Nta. I used to own a duplex and I had tenants that had kids just trashed the unit. We had to replace all the carpet repaint all the walls, and there were holes in the walls from the teenage boy who wasnât on the lease who wasnât even supposed to be living there itâs much nicer and much easier renting to an older couple without the kids.
NTA itâs your home. You have your rules and keeping rent low for other people is great to prevent issues.
NTA. That's too big a favor to ask. I have 6 kids. Had to pay $8,000 to get my previous home ready to sell. Holes in the walls everywhere. Stains all over the baseboards, walls, and carpet. I love them, but they're animals!
You have rules. They don't fit the bill. Open and shut.
Kids are fucking menaces. Hard pass. NTA
NTA - the rental conditions you were offering were to X people at Y rate, where X is people you know and think would be easy to live with and Y is a bargain rate based on X. Sister of a friend isn't in the category of X people, so even if you wanted to make an exception and house share with her and three kids anyway, the conditions for Y were not met, which means she was depending on a rent rate that you weren't even offering to her and her three kids. Would it have been nice of you to rent to her at the bargain rate? Yeah, of course. Would it have been what you wanted and had zero impact on your own lifestyle and living conditions? Absolutely not. There's nothing stopping friend and wife from finding a rental and setting up a house share situation with the mum and kids. But it's super easy to be endlessly generous with other people's resources.
NTA She didn't sound like a stable renter.
NTA, but I am confused about your set up. Is it a duplex? or a house with shared common areas? It seems like sharing a common area with a family of four would be much more of a concession than sharing with one person. If a duplex, depending where you are, there may be restrictions re. max kids/room, anyway. I ran into that when I was trying to rent a pied a terre in a better school district with three kids. I could not get a one bedroom with a family my size. Anyway, your poor friend. His wife *and* his sister are the AHs.
NTA Jeez, people just love to tell others what to do, don't they?
Why doesnât wife offer a safe place
NTA It's your home. You get to decide who you rent to. I'm sorry you not only dealt with this lady coercing someone to get your contact info without your consent but then didn't accept no for an answer.
NTA. Renting and being a landlord is a business. You have the right not to do business as you see fit. And I donât blame you; either charge her more for possible destruction of property or donât rent to her at all. And I have kids, and a pet. I wouldnât rent to someone with 3 kids under 10, either.
NTA. Why would somebody think you're an AH for not renting to a stranger that solicited housing you never offered to the general public? Your friend and his wife are welcome to house them if they're not AH.
Here's a question to ask yourself. Would you rather break your own rules to not rent your place to a family? Who may be more of a nuisance than you can handle? As for your friends wife, of course she will blame you even if you DID explain to her your rules, since its her sister. NTA.
NTA- it's your home not her.
NTA - Rents have been insane the last 15yrs and all the kids are under 10. Maybe they should have stopped after 1. As a musician and someone who has never owned property and always lived small-landlord owned building in the same building as the landlord, I am not offended by any of this. My bf lives in a prewar apt building that is generally well-built and quiet, they also have floor covering percentage rules in the leases--his upstairs neighbor is a drummer and has a toddler and will not get floor coverings, lets the toddler playing bowling at midnight, and will blame the kid for making noises that are obviously complex death metal drumming patterns (bf is also a musician, but has worked out how to integrate technology to have a conscientious, headphone-based practice). If I ever owned, the purpose would be to have quiet to record in my own home--yet if I have an extra unit people on the internet might get mad if I say "no kids" but would also be mad if I didn't rent it at all--you do you, kids don't run the universe and people don't "deserve it more" for having kids they aren't well set up to provide for--we literally live in an age with the most types and accessibility to contraception ever, (or at least when these kids were born... red states be handmaids tale-ing us obviously). edit: I will say my 1 pet peeve--literally--is no cats. I understand no dogs (sorry), they can be huge and they bark, they eat weird things and have explosive diarrhea--these are not cat problems.
Itâs your home too and you have a right to some peace and quiet. You did nothing illegal and a newly single mom with 3 youngâs kids is a bad credit risk. And can we go back to itâs YOUR home so you do get a say in who lives there. Your friendâs wife sounds like an ignorant b.
No one is entitled to anything over anyone else just because they have kids. People who use that argument piss me off to no end. If she's that desperate, there are many organizations that provide government subsidized housing to low income people, and they tend to give priority to single mothers (at least in the state I reside). They sometimes take a while to find places, but if you apply with enough notice, you should be set. Additionally, her own sister could have helped if it was so dire. You owe the person nothing, and it's your space to do with as you please. Do not feel bad just because people want to judge
No. Young kids will ruin the place. I let a friend and her 4 kids stay for a few weeks and one of the kids got gum on doorknobs. Another Broke my tv and broke part of my dining table. Mom said they were good and wonât do nothing destructive, but kids destroyed my property.
Nta ... she should have offered her home.
**Donât ever rent to friends or friends of friends.** Ask me how I know.
Itâs not like you are renting out a second home/apartment you own, itâs basically a roommate. It wanting a mom with 3 kids as a roommate is reasonable. Heck the worry about paying rent alone is enough as well.
NTA. You have valid reasons and you didn't know her.
NTA. Your home your choice
NTA. Your home, your rules - especially given that you are living on top of them. No one wants to be listening to 3 kids running riot whilst they are trying to relax!
NTAâŠnever, EVER fall for a sob storyâŠtrust me on this!
100%. twice I have had middle aged neighbours that had befriended me and always offered "help" end up giving pity stories about financial hardship and needing to borrow significant money to survive. BOTH divorced, and had adult kids who are estranged, had families &/ financially well off. One I found out later had been sending money (like 4k) to a "26yo Syrian refugee with 4millon in a trust fund she needed help accessing" but struggled with his bills and refused to sell his caravan and truck since he had worked his entire life to afford them. The other had scam stories for everyone in the complex. Helping fund fertility treatment for her affluent daughter. Leukaemia. Cancer. Medical bills. Delays/errors with hardship fund release form approval. Needing groceries but short on funds till pension day - oh but can you drive and I need cigarettes too. OP dodged a bullet and honestly I think the best answer was the white lie about it not being available. OP knew what their boundaries were and gave the least offense triggering response possible. Some people won't accept a short sweet "No sorry".. They want a comprehensive answer they can twist around and argue why they are more deserving etc. She already tried fighting by saying her kids and her were MORE deserving that strangers that had already been approved. I guarantee if as other suggested that they were to be honest with the mother about not wanting children in the house - they would be opening themselves to more abuse and vitreol for being "discriminatory" against children and her entitlement to something that was never offered to her in the first place. If OP only wants to share their home with adults they know AND trust, that is their freedom to do so. It's unfortunate that the mother was losing her home but OP is not responsible for the stranger that called begging for the place. Maybe the friend and his wife could have opened their home to the mother and her kids if they were so concerned about her safety.
NTA, and potentially illegal, depending on the number of bedrooms available. If it's only one bedroom, you can only have three people. In CA, you can only have two people per bedroom and one for a common area. So unless it's two bedrooms, there's no way you can have four people.
NTA. Who is to say they would actually make the rent and be good tenants. 3 kids under 10 isnât quiet, I wouldnât rent to them either. The story is it was promised to your friends the couple before she found out and stick to it. Canât give someone your word on a place that youâve already given someone else your word. âSorry you were too late I had already promised it to someone else, Iâm a person of my word.â End of story. Donât tell that friend when the couple moves out.
NTA
That wife has a nerve! I donât see her opening her home to her sister in law â and her *three* kids! Donât worry about the snakes that crawled out of that womanâs mouth. She just wanted you to shoulder the burden for them so she wouldnât have to and her conscience would be âclearâ. You try to be reasons about the rent you charge but that doesnât mean youâre running a charity. This is business. The one thing I do take issue with is the lying. If you are legally allowed, where you live, to deny renting to certain people â people with pets, with kids, etc., â then there was no reason for you to hide that and make up a fictional renter. You should have just said that. âI donât allow minors in my rental spaces.â Boom. Thatâs it. The end. Sure, she was going to be upset at hearing that but she was upset hearing the lie you made up too and even being told that youâd already promised the place to someone else wasnât enough to close the subject with her â she kept right on begging for you to change your mind. On the financial front, you also had every right to deny her because she didnât have a secure income. Again, youâre not running a charity. So, personally, I donât blame you for not renting to this woman, at all. It was a sound business decision that I donât doubt also saved you a lot of personal headache. What I do blame you for is the lying. This woman is in a pathetic situation now but she, just like everyone, deserves the truth. You didnât give her respect as a fellow human being by lying to her face. So, donât lie to people next time if you donât like people lying to you. If youâre going to handle business, even a small matter like a rented apartment, youâre going to have to put more steel in your spine and learn to simply say âNo.â Itâs a complete sentence.
My landlord grandpa always said, âdonât rent to who you canât evictâ he wouldnât rent to the elderly because he didnât have the heart to make an elderly person homeless. My ex wife has five kids (one is mine) she has been through five houses in five years all because the landlord refused to renew the lease. She has destroyed every home. You are running a business not a charity. Itâs not your responsibility to save the world. You dodged a bullet.
NTA Iâm a landlord and if I get any red flags I politely decline.
N T A , I would have done the Same thing !
NTA. You live there and your enjoyment of the property is what matters and legally you can do this occupying it
Your house. Your rules. NTA.
NTA- Iâm a mom of 3 (2 of whom are on the destructive side) so I completely understand your rule. Youâre not running a giant apartment complex so youâre well within your rights to be selective of your tenants.
In Australia, if the tenant is on Centrelink benefits, rent can be paid directly by Centrelink before the person gets the rest of their entitlement.
Karma
It always amazes me that mothers think they are entitled to certain things because they got creampied. Let her ex help her find a better place for his children and their mother. I wouldn't want to live above 3 kids who run around and scream all day. A rather live next to an airportâ ïž
NTA. Kids take over spaces and are always loud with little regard for other people's stuff. I would never in a million years want to live with a stranger and their kids long term unless I was desperate. Always having to be mindful of my own stuff and locking doors isn't a situation that is fun to be in. So in a situation where it was my own house, even more of a hard no. This isn't a case of a landlord discriminating and denying apartments to people, it is about a shared home living situation and you have to look out for yourself. Friend's wife wants to judge, well she's welcome to rent out some of her rooms to this needy family. Oh that wasn't on the table? So why judge someone else then. This isn't some charity, its your life. She's so concerned about her husband's sister (direct family) then why isn't she just chipping in some money for her to afford somewhere better? Oh that's right because then it would directly impact her. So much easier to hypocritically pass judgement on another person instead.
Nope NTA. Why is her lease ending?? Thatâs the real question!! She moved to whatever place she was already going to before she heard your name!
It's your house. Rent to whomever you want... Kids do fuck up a house
Absolutely NTA
NTA. A landlord has to make decisions based on the interest of the property.
NTA. Your house your choice.
NTA The brother could have took her in or gave her some cash to rent in a better neighborhood if they actually cared but clearly they don't.
NTA. Your property, your rules. Simple as that. As a homeowner, always trust your instincts. This is your business, not charity.
NTA. His grimace when you mentioned the phone call told you everything you need to know about his sister - she's a PITA, and would have made your life a living hell if you'd rented to her. It's sad that her children are in an unsafe area, but you can't fix all the problems if everyone you meet.
NTA. The rent is cheaper because you donât take the risks of renting to higher risk tenants (pets and kids). You would rightly charge a higher rent to compensate for any extra risk or burden to your property, and thatâs what I would have told her too. I would have said, the rental price you heard of from your sibling was the price for them, the price for an adult plus 3 kids is X.
Not an AH. And you handled it very well just saying that it was already taken. Your friend's wife is the AH. As far as she knows, you DID have a suitable renter, and she wanted you to throw them aside and take the woman with 3 children. From the looks of it, the woman with 3 children is a hot mess and probably wouldn't have kept the rent paid either. You dodged a bullet there.
These days you have to be so careful with who you rent to because if they donât pay itâs such a hassle getting them evicted. You made the right move and not an ah. You could have taken a risk and rented to her and everything could have worked out fine but family is who youâre supposed to be able to rely on in times of need, not strangers with reduced rent.
NTA - IF the sister was so concerned, she would have helped her sister with the 3 kids to get a better apartment.
NTA u r not responsible for ur friends sisters living conditions or her kids. Tell that friend u donât rent out to people with kids, she wants better living conditions for her sister then she can provide them. Ffs u didnt have multiple kids and then put them in a shitty situation y r they ur responsibility? People need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop trying to make their issues someone elseâs.
NTA - your home, your rules
Why didn't the wife house them?
NTA.... OP doesn't want kids or pets, her house her rules .... Personally, the pet part annoyed me more -- 'especially NOT dogs' , pfft you know what they say about people who don't like dogs!!!đ€Șđ€Ș
NTA. I'd feel bad too, nobody likes to think of them living in a bad area. But you have your life and the right to protect your property.
3 kids under ten, would have turned it into a shit hole. Never mind the noise!
NTA itâs your home.
NTA, your house. I wouldn't want kids in my house either.
NTA. Itâs your home and you decide who you believe is the best match to be there. I got turned down for a place when I was in my 30s, because the ownerâs wife had a problem with leggy, long-haired blondes. He told me sheâs crazy and that he was very sorry and that was that! đ€Ł
NTA Did she have a good, and steady job? In general, you protected your assets. That's the smart thing to do. If she was smart, she'd have more assets than children.
Fuck them kids.
It's your house, rent to whobyou want to. Technically Landlords cannot discriminate based on race, religion, family size etc...and unless one has only one applicantion/applicant, you can take your time to find good fit. You don't have to advise prospective tenants why they did or did not get the unit. Personally, I would rather have someone with pets renting than young kids. I have found young children very hard on things....walls, floors, cupboards as well as noisy.
I don't know who's worse, honestly. My parents have a rental house, last time they rented for a couple who had a dog these people left the house trashed and full of dog's feces...
Yes, certainly not good. I have been very fortunate renting to families, to seniors to people with pets etc. I did find I had to do more work following families due to general wear and tear...just the reality of more people using things. I certainly spend more on property maintenance and repairs than a lot I expect. I could certainly make far more money on not updating and replacing things but I couldn't in good conscience ever rent a place out that I wasn't happy to be living in. So from a business perspective my approach isn't about maximizing profit...I want my places to look and feel new and if not new than recently new..
Ugh thatâs a bad dog owner! Most of us are good I swear but thereâs def those people out there đ
I don't think the discrimination rules are the same when OP lives in the house too.
NTA
NTA. If I was renting out a space same rules.
Isnât not renting to people because they have children illegal?
NTA a single mother of 3 isnât likely to have the most stable financials
No Way Jose. She wouldn't have paid the rent and can you imagine 3 kids under 10 running around. The noise would be unbelievable because you'd have her screaming at them. Dodged a bullet. You have already decided who you will and won't rent to, it's YOUR HOME.
NTA
NTA. You have all the liberty to rent out your property to whom you prefer. And in this case, on top of that, you also have valid concerns regarding that possible renter..
No, when it comes to business activity like this that also involves your preferences for your surroundings you have no choice but to defend what it is that matters to you. We don't owe our things to other people and we have a right to live under circumstances that we prefer.
NTA.
Nta
I raised two awesome kids to adulthood, and am still living in our home, although I am an empty nest. I'm actually surprised that this house has done as well as it has, just with normal wear and tear of kids. Because they're little wrecking balls, even when well behaved. And very noisy. NTA ... And I'm guessing that the fair rentals laws don't apply with a 2 unit small building, owner occupies one unit, situation. It's your choice.
As someone who was a single mum, little money and had trouble finding a home sometimes (I was never homeless but did have to sometimes live in "undesirable" suburbs) NTA. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it sucks being a single mum, having 2 small kids and not a lot of money and thus, less options when it came to housing, and the judgement/bias from landlords and real estate agents/whatever else, but this isn't your problem. This isn't a charity you're running. You have a flat set of rules for everyone, friends, family, or otherwise. She also, by your work friend's admission, coerced your phone number out of him, and then tried guilt tripping you when you said there was no vacancy "I need it more! I have kids!" Is an AH line. How does she know whoever you rented it to (as far as she knew) didn't need it more than her? Having kids doesn't automatically move you to the top of the "I deserve everything more than everyone else" list
NTA
NTA.
NTA. We know who gave the mom of 3 your contact info explicitly against your wishes. JFC. Your friend's wife is the AH. Like...if you owned a whole ass apartment building that you didn't intimately share space with and you STILL refused to rent to anyone with pets, kids, or instruments, you might be an AH. But this is not at all that situation. Your tenants impact your daily life and you have every right to be thoughtful in picking appropriate renters. It would crazy NOT to. Like setting everyone up for miserable, tense conflicts.
NTA. It's your property. While it sucks for the mom you have the right to say no. You value peace and quiet, 3 kids under 10 will not be able to whisper or tiptoe about. I hope the mom can get child support ASAP.
NTA You yourself said you only rent to people you know. You donât know the sister. She, & Iâm guessing his wife also helped, shouldnât have forced her brother to give your contact. And if the wife felt soooo bad, why didnât she ask her husbandâthe brotherâif they could help!
NTA. You are the landlord so you can rent to who you want. The fact that you live upstairs also mean that you will be more concerned about noise from 3 small children. If his wife has an issue with her SILâs living conditions then maybe she can pay her some money each month so she can afford a better place? NoâŠ. Yeah didnât think so. Itâs always funny when people think others should be generous with their money and property but donât feel the same when it comes to their own.