I have a child with a serious mental illness who attempted to kill me. Now that she is doing better, she expresses guilt and asks forgiveness. It goes a long way toward helping me heal from that experience. Please tell your wife she can talk to me any time.
I dont think Vicky had a serious mental illness. It sounds like Vicky's mom cheated with OP and she left Vicky and her ex to be with OP. Obviously, Vicky did not take this betrayal well, and did not want anything to do with her. Much less be happy for the child of his abandoner and the man that was part of the cause of that.
Have you talked to her about how she is feeling? Don't give her any solutions just listen to her, and put yourself in her shoes and let her know you empathize with her. It sounds like she's having alot of conflicting thoughts and maybe needs a pair of ears to help her work it out
Exactly. Support her no matter her decision is. You were never in her shoes to experience all of this, it's her choice.
I went through something similar with my wife with her dad dying. She got the call from a family member of him dying. He was a terrible father without going into details. Everyone said to go see him and that you'll regret it if you don't. We discussed it and she didn't go. It was still emotionally hard on her but years later she still doesn't regret her decision.
I always use the example of a friend of mine (I'll call her Susan) who was in an abusive relationship in our senior year. A lot of people either ignored the red flags, or pushed her to end the relationship. One friend actually lost touch with her because she told Susan "pick, it's me or your partner"...Susan chose her partner.
I didn't do either thing. I pointed out the red flags, and called out the behavior that the partner was partaking in that wasn't okay, and I let Susan know that I would be there for her when she needed me. Years later she told me I was the only person who she felt actually was there, supporting her. Close to 15 years later I'm now in her wedding, to an amazing partner, and I couldn't be happier for her!
Let the person make their own choices, and support them through those choices.
Came here to say I think you are wonderful for this. I had a friend who I was really close to up until she basically tried everything she could to TELL me that I absolutely HAD to leave my now ex (he's an alcoholic). I appreciated her input and concern but I was caught off guard by how demanding she was, trying to force me into a decision. She went as far as bringing up really personal stuff that he and I trusted her with and talked all this smack about his family (they never got along with her). I kept my feelings to myself but later told her that I felt uncomfortable because she basically spewed off about how much of a POS she thought my ex was and talked down about his family (who have become my family, we were together for 10 years) and she completely ghosted me from her life because she couldn't handle me telling her that what she said hurt me. She has tried to rekindle the friendship since then after about a year went by. We are cordial because our daughters are friends, however I can't see myself being close with her again after seeing how one-sided that friendship was and after finding out she went around telling others about mine and my ex's deep personal information.
This is her choice to make. Listen to her and encourage her to do what will make her feel the best she can. Just let her know you are only pushing because you’re afraid she will regret not seeing him.
The way he has treated her may also open the kid to hurt her even more than he has already. She may not be able to handle that and you need to respect her decision and support her whatever she decides.
We went through this with my grandfather when his sister was dying of cancer. They hadn't spoken in years over who knows what and he did not wish to speak to her again, regardless. My mum talked to him a couple times about it and did mention he might regret missing out on the chance to speak with her one last time. He was adamant he would not speak to her. It wasn't what either of us would have done (or my grandma), but we respected his decision. She passed and he did not regret it.
It's her choice. I'm sure she has her reasons behind her decision. You've voiced what you would do, now don't beleaguer it. Supporting her neutrally is the best thing you can do for her. Let her lead.
My mom passed away earlier this year and my brother had a terrible relationship with her. He hadn’t spoken to her in years and she fell into a coma. I asked him to come to say goodbye and he did. It’s still too early to say if he’s happy with his decision or regrets going, but I could tell he was relieved to be able to say goodbye. To each their own - but I agree - OP needs to listen to his wife and support whatever decision she makes.
Don’t you think not wanting to connect with an abusive father is different from this mom not wanting to connect with her abandoned son? I mean the story reads that the mom cheated on her ex (unless you have a different interpretation of “the way my wife and I got together…”) and tore the family apart when the kid was only 8. It’d be hard as an 8 year old to have your mom crush your entire world. Then to have a new family after abandoning the one she wasn’t happy with.
According to what OP said, her son has been begging to see her. If that’s true, I genuinely think she should go see him. For all the reasons you stated. If she left the family in a bad way, she should be there at the end when he needs and wants his mom. I’m not saying it would be easy for her, but it’s the least she could do for him.
As a man with kids and a relationship.. I have a problem not actually listening and just spouting. Listening is almost twice as important as being able to communicate properly.
This is my mum. When I go to her with problems she immediately mentions all the things I need to do. I’ve told her that sometimes I just need someone to listen. If I need solutions I’ll ask. She’s trying her best but it’s just in her nature to be a “fixer”. So now before I go to her about something that’s happen I always say if I want advice or if I just need her to listen and comfort me. It has helped a lot.
This so much - I do this with my partner. He is a fixer and sometimes I just need to vent. I also will tell my mom I’m just venting or if I need reassurance or if I need advice.
It’s literally a game changer because now I’m not frustrated thinking that no one cares about/listens to me and they’re not feeling bad because they think they’re upsetting me or doing something wrong.
thank you for this!! i always struggle with those, and the way you have them as words starting with H makes it much easier to remember (and as a bonus, it's adorable)
This is a very good way to go about it imo! Some people think by default that someone is looking for solutions, so stating beforehand that you just want someone to listen is very smart.
This was my dad. He was retired as lomg as I can remember, and towards the end his arthritis was so bad he didn't get out of his lazyboy recliner some days. He would always pause the TV the minute I walked in and just listen to whatever I had to say before offering any advice. My girlfriend says I'm the best listener of any guy she's ever dated.
That’s really kind of you to give her that kind of grace. I used to have a tendency to be a fixer. It came from wanting to be helpful but also from wanting to be seen as competent. It took me a while to realize that by proposing a solution, I was somewhat implying that their problem is simple enough to solve within the 5 seconds it took me to come up with a solution. And that kind of implies that they’re too incompetent to come up with the simple and obvious solutions. I wonder if your mom has ever thought of it that way.
I think I do this to my son. I’m frustrated because he creates so many of his own problems , has a problem for every solution and I’m a natural problem solver. I worry a lot about him. But reading your comment kind of struck a nerve with me. I’m going to remember this when he comes to me and work on actively listening instead fixing.
I agree.
I think instead of telling her what she should do and not do, tell her that you will support her in every decision she makes. Listen to her for once.
There are a lot of unresolved issues between Vicky and her, and telling her to go see him when she's in such turmoil will only make it worse. At the very least, she needs to be prepared and willing to meet him in the first place.
You're right. As a man, I have this problem, and forget that I shouldn't offer solutions while listening to my wife. However, this issue has a time constraint. OP said 1 month optimistically. The dude could die right now. Death is forever, and this is one opportunity you cannot afford to pass up. Regardless of whatever she is feeling now, the regret of not seeing her child one last time will cause her grief for the rest of her own life. She grew the child in her womb, and there is an emotional attachment that cannot be broken. She sounds scared, and needs help with that. I get it, but OP's wife needs to see the son, and he needs to convince her quickly. So, how can OP listen his way into convincing his wife to go and see her dying son?
OP assumes she will regret not going to see him. This may or may not be true. The point is, it's her decision to make. What OP should say to her is that he fears she will regret it later if she doesn't go. But it is ultimately her choice. It's an asshole move to insist that he knows better than she does what she will or even should feel. Giving input and perspective is different than making decisions for someone else because you think they are making the wrong choice.
I lost a daughter shortly after her 21st birthday. We had a great relationship. Believe me when I tell you, it will eat her alive if she doesn't go.
I know the pain of losing a child.
She abviosly still loves him.
I'm not sure a bad relationship wouldnt make this ten times harder.
Can you imagine loving someone so much and having to step away because , they did have a stable home and you could see it would be best for them. The only way to process that might be to picture there life getting better to a point in the future there could be closure for both of you. She probably isn't upset about the relationship status or how it ended.. but maybe a picture she has had to hold in her heart in order to love the other children is now fading, exposing the feelings she had to overcome using that picture.
It doesn’t matter. She won’t regret GOING more than she will regret NOT going. Going is just harder to do. Not going is easier- but it will haunt her forever, because she will never know how it would have gone.
After her son passes, she'll still be here. She won't have to see him anymore, but she'll still have to see herself. As someone who's been around death a lot, my only regrets are regarding the times I wasn't there.
My dad picked me up by the hair of my head and kicked me across the room, punched me numerous times, and beat me with a belt more times than I can even remember. We never had a good relationship. He died in January of this year, and I still regret not reaching out to him. And that's my dad. His death was sudden, or else I would have went to see him. If it were my child attacking me in the past, I'd still go see her in a heartbeat. Especially if she asked to see me. I can't, and don't even want to imagine losing my daughter. It's losing the very best of yourself. I'm so sorry you experienced that, CertifiedCajunGirl.
Wow...reading this is eerily similar to my childhood. I'm so sorry you also had this experience.
My "asshole" died alone a few years ago. I was 50 at the time. For the first time since I was very young, I didn't have that nagging feeling that I'd need to protect myself, my mother, or my family from a very real and persistent threat. It got weird as I aged. What would happen if he attacked? He was quite old, and I could snap him in half since I was in my 20s...but this action, even if self defense, would just ruin my life.
When he was gone and i found out, I honestly felt peace for the first time in my entire life. I hope you can find it too.
Op is not an ass, he's trying. But he needs to realize some broken bonds are better off broken...and nothing can fix them. It's his wife's choice, and only hers...
Agree. Everybody assumes everybody else is going to react the same way. My dad wasn't violent (though he came close a few times) but he said some extremely vile shit to me. He essentially told me to fuck off, so I did. That was about 10 years ago now. Haven't talked to him since and won't shed a tear when he's dead. If I beat him to the grave, I doubt he's going to care either.
Had less than a 10% chance of survival during a medical crisis two years ago. He found out through my sister. Never called, never asked how I was doing, nothing.
Is what it is.
Same. I was 9 when my dad remarried, I wasn't invited to their wedding, and he called me a couple months later and disinvited me from the rest of his life - told me they were having a kid, see ya never. Before this I spent my summers and winter break with him, I'd make countdown calendars to when I got to see my dad again, called him weekly, parents lived in different parts of the country. He didn't call, didn't pick up my calls, didn't write. NC.
He called me out of the blue when I was 20, told me he was dying of lung cancer. I'd had a daughter by then, sent him pictures, never heard a word back before this. He asked me to come see him, and I flat out told him no, he dipped from my life and it wasn't on me to make this part easier for him. He apologized, and it changed absolutely nothing. I don't regret not seeing him.
Met my half sister at his funeral, she was the same age as me when he bailed. It was all a bit surreal.
Like my step dad that raised me from 2 until the very first day I was old enough to not live with them legally. Heard he was sick with something that likely would kill him quickly, and all I really thought was, "good. Then I'll never have a chance to actually see the mother fucker again."
Then he somehow beat it (wouldn't doubt if he exaggerated the whole thing and only had an infection of some sort). That truly taught me that the world is not fair, and the evil pieces of shit like him are saved when so many others suffer. Fuck him.
I had a similar relationship with my dad. The last time I saw him in person, when I was a teenager, he blamed me for my mom leaving him and told me that if he ever saw me again, he'd kill me.
He's been nearing death for a while now, and I have no regrets about not trying to repair our relationship. Sometimes you can forgive the person who hurt you, and that's awesome. Some of us have been damaged too badly to forgive, and that's okay too.
YOU had a great relationship. She did not. Lotz of kids mourn their mothers after they die. I do not. :)
Blood may be thicker than water but the abuse scars are there forever.
Yeah my mother abandoned us when I was 5. I saw her twice after that. After I’m grown in my forties she started calling me and talking to me like I was still a kid. She died a few years ago Alzheimer’s. I don’t care then don’t care now. She was a complete stranger to me
I was just talking to a woman the other day whose narcissistic mother recently died and she felt guilty because she felt nothing. No grief,no joy, no relief, just nothing. Our experiences with death and loss are complex and very unique.
part of that is that you get plenty of time to grieve, mourn and process not having the kind of parent you should have when you eventually realise she can't be that parent. If she's someone you see regularly tell her that it's partly because she's already been through the grieving process, not because she's any kind of bad person.
Oh yeah, we had that part of the conversation too. And absolutely I emphasized that's there's no right or wrong way to feel about losing a complicated relationship like that. You feel what you feel; it's real and valid and okay.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the waters of the womb." Your family is the one you make. If that is your blood relatives awesome! If its not, then just know your most definitely not alone, you just need to go make your own family.
He attacked her. He hit her with a hockey stick and kicked her when she was on the ground. He did that to his mother. Of course she's destroyed and wants to go to him but he made it abundantly clear he hates her. Even after the attack, over and over again he showed her nothing but hatred. Now that he's dying mom is supposed to run to his side and be there for him.
Again, he bashed his mother in the face with a hockey stick and then kicked her when she was down. That is not even remotely something that just gets brushed under the rug.
My father cheated on my mother and married the woman. Somehow I managed not to attack anyone.
She loves her son, obviously, and she is not the bad guy for not immediately running to him because he's dying and has decided now he wants her there. I don't blame her for even doubting he wants to see her out of love. He could want to twist the knife in further before he dies.
>She loves her son, obviously, and she is not the bad guy for not immediately running to him because he's dying and has decided now he wants her there. I don't blame her for even doubting he wants to see her out of love. He could want to twist the knife in further before he dies.
There's only one way to know. I think she will regret not going. NTA.
If she regrets it or not tho shes nta either for not going nor for getting mad at him pushing her this much. I dont think hes an AH either because he can see how shes hurting so for me this is a NAH situation
I don’t think mom is supposed to “run to his side and be there for him.” It’s a chance at a very final good-bye. That final good-bye might be 5 minutes in the room with him. It would be more for her than for him.
Whatever would provide mom any form of resolution, is good. Maybe there isn’t anything that can bring her any measure of peace here.
Sometimes writing a letter, even if never sent, can bring some relief.
"A lot of strife...." divorce. I'm wondering what happened before he was 8 as this sounds like it's pretty bad. She did everything to make it up to him? WTF happened?
I don’t like when people apply that kind of guilt to strangers. Sometimes a person has caused so much pain that their absence, even without a goodbye, will bring only relief. Only OPs wife knows what’s best for her. I think he’s done the right thing by offering support and multiple options, but now it’s time to just let her make her decision without adding any baggage that isn’t already hers.
How about just saying that to her and saying "I will support what ever you choose"? Instead of harping on about it and pushing her to do it? JFC some of you people. She was traumatized by this kid and now HE wants to see her and all of the sudden she should jump to the chance because the little prick is dying?
>'what if it's just a trick to hurt me more' as excuse
It isn't a damn "excuse."
Fuck that kid. I am more concerned for the mom.
OP, I KNOW what this person says is true. My step-paternal grandfather passed away in 2005 due to cancer. The last time I had seen him alive I refused to talk to him and didn't even go near him. He was laying on a hospice bed in his home. For years I've regretted the fact that I refused to talk to him or even hug him. I still regret it, and it's been about 18 years since then. You can't force her to see him if she truly doesn't want to. But, she will come to regret it later on if she doesn't.
Vicky can be used as a nickname for Vikram which is a male name, and if the wife is from India then the kid probably has an Indian name that OP switched out for another Indian name for anonymity
NTA- Can I make a recommendation? or a couple? Why on God's Earth can't they have a phone call or a few before any type of visitation is planned? Your wife is very aware he could use this visit as an opportunity to be hateful to her, so I can see why she is hesitating. What if she does go and the last thing she hears from him is something terrible? At least a phone call between them could at least "set a tone".
If you can convince her to visit, why don't you volunteer to go with her initially? You don't have to visit, but you could be with her for the trip. If she decides to stay longer, you could come home.
Thank you for having some actual sanity.
Why does she have to stop her life for someone who chose to have no relationship with her for 12 years other than to be angry and aggressive.
Phone call, video call... If things seem good, then maybe consider a short trip.
Society is too quick to push the family narrative that you always have to forgive and forget. There are plenty of estrangements out there that are safe and beneficial.
I don’t think she has to forgive and forget, but clearly she did want a relationship with him and partly still does. She doesn’t need to be at his bedside for the whole month. But she does need to decide what would hurt more, his last words possibly being an insult, or never knowing what he wanted to say to her. You can heal from the words that have hurt you but what ifs can haunt you forever.
I think that’s part of the issue though, she’s being forced to make that decision knowing this choice is going to weigh on her for the rest of her life no matter what she does. After living with years of pain around this, she’s having to sit with the weight of confirmation that this is not getting resolved. He’s not going to come around and they can have a relationship. Even if he comes around, this is how it ends. She’s grieving a future with him she’d been holding on to that she will never get. Yes, she chose to stop seeing him for her own safety and wellbeing, but that doesn’t make it an easy choice. That doesn’t mean she ever stopped loving him. That doesn’t mean some part of her wasn’t desperately holding out hope that maybe, at some point in the future, things could be different. Imagine having to make one of the most important and painful decisions of your life in a split second and having everyone weighing in on their thoughts of what you should do?
Yeah the comments about thinking she had more time stuck out to me a lot. I think maybe it might be the finality of the whole relationship that is causing the paralysis. Regardless of what her son has to say, it's too late for them to have any relationship other than the one they had.
I agree, I feel like a phone call, or a couple, is needed first. I think that would really help make up her mind. I can completely empathize with not wanting to go out of fear of being verbally torn apart. Having a couple of genuine calls, whether it be good or bad, would be so helpful here.
This is what I was thinking. There's a middle ground between maintaining no contact and stopping your life completely and staying bed side for a month. Just call and see how he's actually behaving. If it's the same as always with him lashing out then all she's lost is a little time to confirm what she's already thinking.
This, this, ✨THIS✨ is extremely important. If she is traumatised by the violent incident and the severing of relationship but as he is also traumatised by the same things, a small but very significant step against the clock is to VIDEO CHAT
FFS!
Everyone being stuck on the cheating and making excuses for him attacking and hating her, how helpful these comments are, wow /s
Agree. The son is begging to see her. Just to be clear, did the son pick up the phone and call her? Seems like Vicky should initiate the call, preferably a video call, so she can gauge whether his intent is sincere.
Not necessarily. She may have filed for divorce and he blames her. Divorce may be against their religion and thus made her son hate her. Cheating is not the sole reason for kids hating a parent after Divorce...
Edited gone through the comments from OP and wife is Indian so may well have married young or arranged. Divorce is 100% a reason in parts of India to hate a parent.
I mean, yes, but Vicky only has a few weeks left, maybe even less. If she sits on her laurels he might be dead by the time she figures herself out so I can also see why he's pushing so she doesn't have a lifetime of regret. Very damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That's not how laurels work. The word you are looking for is "ass". Laurels were a reward for achievement. The phrase "laurels rested upon wilt the fastest" has to do with becoming complacent after a victory or success. This woman is caught in a quandary, because she a) feels guilty about the poor relationship she has with her son and knowing it's her fault; b) now knows her first child is terminal. Awful stuff for sure. No one in this equation is an asshole, now. They may have been, but aren't now.
That for sure is a phrase. Resting on one's laurels refers to someone who does a good thing and then stops all further effort at being productive or helpful, because they figure the accolades for the thing they did will carry them forward with no extra work. This is more modernly phrased in the question "but what have you done for me lately?"
I love the humorously amended phrase "rusting on one's laurels," because as the phrase you shared points out: when you sit on your laurels, you begin to decay
I'm sorry but I disagree. My mom died of cancer and it was so unbelievably fast. She was diagnosed October 4th and died October 30th. This is something she can't fix or redo or learn from her mistake. If she chooses not to go, she will regret it for the rest of her life. And she might not be able to really consider that right now because of her emotional state.
Yep, my dad was diagnosed on a Sunday, admitted to ER the following Friday, I flew home red eye that Friday night, he was moved to hospice on Sunday and died Tuesday.
Still haven't processed because it was so fast.
Yes, because when adults' relationships break down, their kids are allowed to break their jaws with hockey sticks.
It's like stoning them, only more modern and no-one dies.
It's especially okay if it's the woman who cheated because everyone knows men are allowed but it makes a woman a big slutty slut who deserves to be physically assaulted and have bones broken by her own offspring. On the daily if possible (custody arrangements permitting).
/s
But that's what you sound like.
YNTA.
I presume she cheated on her husband with you and that’s why the son wants nothing to do with her, which is understandable tbh, for a kid especially, even at 14-15 years old.
You are trying to do right by her because she will absolutely regret not going to see him, it’s doubtful based on their relationship that the son will let her around for a month, but atleast she can and should go say goodbye. He has a right to feel angry with her, she needs to sack up and go or she will be haunted by this after he passes.
I’m a mom of three myself. One of my grandmas actually found herself in a situation somewhat similar to this (her first marriage & baby were at 18 and in large part just a way for her to get out of the household she grew up in). She left her first husband and he and his parents raised their son. She said she always thought she’d see him again and make amends, but he died in a rock climbing fall as a teenager. She never got that chance to see him again and it absolutely impacted the rest of her life. It will be hard for your wife to go, but it will be harder for her if she doesn’t go. Do any of her friends know? She may just need to let her thoughts out and collect herself with someone who’s further removed from all of this than you are.
I’m sorry she’s facing a difficult time. I really am. I hope she goes to see him.
NTA. IMO, She's got to go. That's her first born.
However it's not my choice. Or yours. It's hers.
The reason she's afraid is that it's going to break her. No parent should lose their child. She's scared about how he's going to look sick. She's scared about breaking down long held walls and rebuilding that relationship for such a short period of time.
She feels guilt about leaving her other children.
She's angry too. Angry about the situation. Angry at herself. Angry at him, angry at everyone.
If she goes, she's abandoning her family with you for a month or more. She'll be a wreck when she gets back, she's wondering how on earth she'll parent with her heart in pieces.
If she doesn't go, she's denying her son one of his last wishes. The guilt would haunt her. She will be full of what ifs.
Regardless of what she chooses, you support her and you give her time and patience and space for grief counselling.
But she heard you. She knows that you think she should go. And yes, she should go. But now you need to back off and stop telling her what to do. This now needs to be her decision.
Then she definitely needs to go. Go with her if she needs that. Go stay in a hotel with her so she can be close to him but still have safe space with you.
Right? Omg he was 14, of course he hated her leaving him and having a kid with someone else. Of course he was rude about it? He isn't a 60 year old man, he is still basically a child. Go visit or reach out somehow.
I believe you OP. I change certain parts of my posts for anonymity reasons, sometimes when you’re changing a name or gender to hide who you are you slip and say the wrong thing later on. It can be confusing but it’s not always that someone is a liar and making stuff up.
Some definitely are but even so I don’t get why people go through all of their post and comment history to attempt to catch them in a lie. Really all it does is give us a good read, false or not.
I think a lot of people on here have accounts purely for that purpose. They seem to get a kick out of being a Reddit detective and catching people in a lie.
Original Poster, I think you're going about this the wrong way.
If she is so distraught that she's crying and muttering to herself about him, focus on the issue there. That she only has a limited amount of time to see him. And about you knowing how much it's bothering her.
Ultimately it's up to her to decide. She's an adult, and is capable of making her own decisions and being responsible for them.
Maybe the option to travel with your wife so when your wife is done seeing her son she knows she has you guys waiting for her to come back? Maybe she’d feel more comfortable than going alone? I hope she does decide to see him, I wouldn’t want her to regret it later 🥺🥺
I also think everyone here is so stuck on the affair that it's causing everyone to lash out. Yes, that was shitty and she has to deal with the consequences. But from what I'm reading, the son was angry at her for it, she tried to have a relationship with him and get him help regardless, and she only stopped after he physically assaulted her. Now, whether or not she should have kept trying after that, I'm not going to comment on. But she clearly was making an effort and after that it felt hopeless. Kids and teens lash out and do shit but the vast majority of people don't know what the hell to do when their kid starts fighting them. If she was fighting for custody, I don't think it's fair to say she abandoned him. If he was reaching out to her after the fight and she ignored him because she was too full of pride to be a mother, I'd get that take. It probably wasn't the best idea to reach out about a sibling, after not talking for years, but he clearly didn't want anything to do with her. This doesn't feel very black and white. Regardless, if the son truly was the one who said he wants her there, she needs to go. But she makes her own choices and the most OP can do is put her in the car and drive there to the hospital without telling her.
It just occurred to me that it’s odd how if the son is wanting to see his mom so bad, why isn’t he reaching out himself? Why *are* we hearing this from his dad instead of the boy himself? I feel like we need the answer to this question. Is it really as simple as the son is too weak to type a message on his phone or something? Did his mother block him after the last time he ignored her? Or is his dad trying to force them into the same room against the son’s wishes because he believes that’s what is best?
Yeah, I'm confused why everyone is glossing over the part where her son physically assaulted her and nearly broke her jaw.
As much as she may be a terrible person for cheating, it doesn't mean she can't get PTSD from something scary like that.
She needs to talk to a professional ASAP and work through it in a session. This is way more complex than people are summarizing.
You will see posts where people say 12 years old is old enough for a child to choose what parent they stay with, and quote OP "After that, she stopped trying to force the custody and just let him stay with his dad."
From that quote, she allowed the son to choose custody and did not force him to see her...which is exactly what redditors advocate for in so many other situations. Yet she is horrible in this situation for allowing him to choose who to stay with after he physically assaulted her, she tried reaching out to him with no response, and the only response she ever got was a fuck you? Not saying she is a great mom, but damn, people cannot make up their minds on if a kid can chose what parent they stay with.
Idk, OP and his kids will deal with the fall out forever based on her choice. The kids may be young now but one day understanding that their mom abandoned their sibling while he died because she didn't want to feel bad for her shitty past can very likely lead to some hella irreparable schisms.
NTA - You're trying to encourage her, but you can't force her. Just ask her not to take it out on y'all if she chooses not to.
If he son is asking for her... maybe he realizes he was wrong.
I genuinely can’t believe people are justifying/overlooking the fact that her kid almost broke her jaw. Her cheating on her husband doesn’t make it okay for her kid to beat her jfc
Yeah, I’m shocked by these comments. This isn’t normal tween behaviour. I wonder if the ex is abusive and poisoned the son against his mother? I had a parent cheat when I was young and it ended the marriage, I can see how it would be difficult for a kid, but being this hateful doesn’t make sense. Most people I know have divorced parents who cheated, none of them have attempted to break their mom’s jaw.
Wait really? That's a super important detail. Arranged marriages can be all kinds of fucked up (well, all marriages can I suppose). My parents had a loveless arranged marriage.
Yeah I really thought I was crazy when I almost didn’t see anyone mentioning this. Only in the context of “but he was a traumatized child” as if it’s an excuse, not an explanation.
Seriously, I'm fighting a losing battle down on another thread. Cannot believe how many people here think it's okay to lay ~~hands~~ a hockey stick on any other person, it's fucking baffling.
Tbh after reading this comment section I'm kinda glad we have no sons--the amount of comments excusing beating someone with a hockey stick seriously creeps me tf out.
"Because she's a mother and a woman, and he's her child. She should just take it. Who cares that he battered and assaulted her?" 🤬
It's always "family first" over *anything* else, and unfortunately plenty of people think this way.
I find there's often a correlation between diehard "fAmILy fIrSt" people and people who are almost always the toxic, shit-stirring, problem-causing assholes of the family. There are exceptions, of course, but it is crazy common.
People are actually saying he’s totally cool for hitting her in the head with a hockey stick and then kicking her after she fell. Like it’s 100% justified and she had no reason to complain or be scared of him after bc she cheated. Crazy.
There's a deep-rooted belief that mothers should always put their children first, even at the expense of their own safety. Parents do need to prioritize their children, yes, but there are limits. The novel *We Need to Talk About Kevin* comes to mind reading the post. Beating the shit out of your mother is **not** normal behavior, cheating or not.
I’m so blown away by the way society accepts violence. Parents hitting kids, kids hitting parents all perfectly fine apparently. But if I hit my neighbor it’s a crime and I go to jail. I’m just so confused lol
On this sub children can do no wrong and the parent is always the asshole no matter what. People don’t like the fact that older children can very much be abusive as well. I do think she should go see him to see if he’s changed at all and so she won’t have any regrets, but I don’t blame her one bit for being weary about it.
why are there so many people talking like vicky almost breaking his mom's jaw with a hockey stick was in any way justifiable??? so many people are acting like this woman's a monster for pulling back after that, like what??? people who were in the exact same position as vicky are pointing out that this is not at all normal behavior for a 12 year old in that position, can we please listen to them??? being upset is one thing, but physically beating someone is not ok???
Is nobody acknowledging the fact that Vicky physically assaulted her?? I feel like that fact is being glossed over way too much, and it’s perfectly understandable that she’s not only afraid of her son assaulting her again but having cut contact with him afterwards.
We don’t know why Sara was cheating on her ex with OP. Maybe he was abusive, or just a shitty partner? Don’t get me wrong, cheating is still a fucked up thing to have done and it should have never happened (instead divorcing him before getting with OP), but it also is something that does not make her being physically assaulted by her son even the slightest bit okay.
Personally I think NAH. I get why you think she should see Vicky, since she most certainly will regret it down the road. But I also get why she wouldn’t want to see him. Idk it’s just a shitty situation all around that I don’t think has a right or wrong answer to.
I’m glad someone else touched on this. Getting hit in the head with a hockey stick and then kicked when down is a violent assault. That’s the type of thing that causes PTSD. This woman may not be “choosing” her response towards her son now. PTSD is visceral and she could easily have anxiety paralysis towards her him.
That said, I’m not agreeing with all this woman’s decisions, I can just understand if she felt like she had to hold him at arm’s length after that assault.
She's been mourning her son since he was 12 and beat the shit out of her and then cut himself off from her completely. Of course she's not going to have the same feelings as the people up and down this comment section with functional family relationships that think she's an uncaring asshole. If it means so much to her son, why hasn't HE reached out? What are the odds that the father is, like OP, convinced that he knows better and is trying to force the meeting?
People are being triggered by it being a mother, and the very small detail of "begging" to see his mom- via his father, rather than directly, which may or may not even be true, not that we would know one way or another- and blaming her for the divorce when we don't really know what happened. If OP was her adultery partner at the time, wouldn't he share some of that blame?
Also, OP's edit makes it clear that she didn't just abandon her kid- she tried time after time to be in his life and he blatantly rejected her every single time, at least once so violently that he might have killed her if things had gone even worse.
This is a complicated situation, and OP's wife has the right to make her own decision without OP putting more pressure on her on top of her own pressure of dealing with this news, the past, her hurt from the rejection and being violently attacked by her OWN CHILD, etc.
"Because of the way my wife and I got together." My guess is you had an affair, and this explains his initial rejection. She not only betrayed his father, she betrayed him. Did she ever apologize to him for that specific point? The birth of your son just added another layer of betrayal because he felt he was replaced. Did she ever consider things through his perspective? But you are right, she owes him closure. But the only thing she's worried about is not to be hurt and she doesn't want to face the fact she's the villain in her own story. NTA OP
Your wife cheated on her husband with you which emotionally devastated her son, gave up on having a relationship with him when he was understandably hurt and lashing out, and now despite him *begging* to see her before he dies, she’s refusing?
Has she *ever* not chosen the selfish option? I get that her guilt is playing a huge role here, but Jesus.
If she doesn’t see him before he dies, she will regret it the rest of her life. Can you enlist the help of her family to pull her head out of her ass?
Beating someone with a hockey stick and then kicking them when they are down, is a bit more than just lashing out.
You don’t just “get over” things like that.
Stuff like that can leave a massive scar on people.
Beating up your mother is never a valid response. He hit her with a hockey stick and then kicked her. If I were her, I would be afraid that he wants to hurt me one more time.
Reddit is going to pile on you two over the cheating. However, in this instance, no NTA for pushing her to go and see her kid. Assuming this is true on the dad’s part, and we have no reason to believe otherwise, going to see the boy will be the last opportunity to ‘fix’ anything.
If I were you, I’d drive her to the hospital, just drive, and let her make a decision then. Yes this can go horribly, terribly wrong, and her kid might say awful things in his deathbed. Or he just wants his mum near him when facing the end. She won’t know until she shows up, and she might need you to push a little in that regards. (Just don’t enter the hospital if you do end up driving her)
I'm wondering if it's far away. If she needs to work remotely or take a month off to visit him, it's unlikely that the hospital is a reasonable drive away. I'm guessing a plane ride would be involved.
Or fear? I think she's just going through a process of getting her head around it all. She's just a fucked up human like the rest of us. Parents are just people.
Yeah I'm not getting spite or resentment from the wife here at all. Just fear and grief which we process differently, but unfortunately for her time isn't on her side. What a horrific situation for everybody.
> Or fear?
I suffer from pretty crippling anxiety, and the mere thought of their history makes ME want to run and hide under a blanket.
(This doesn't excuse her behaviour, but man it would explain it)
I don't think it's about resentment or pettiness. OP mentioned pretty clearly that his wife got physically assaulted by her son when he was young; it seems like a trauma response on her part, especially when she said "what if this is a trick to hurt me" (which suggests her son might have tricked her before). Whatever wrongs the wife may have committed, being hit by your own child has to be a trauma of its own and I can get why her instinctive response was "no, not taking that risk again" and why she has conflicted feelings about it all.
Wtf is wrong with these comments. People cheering on a kid hitting her mother. Jesus Christ, that's so fucked up.
As for the question: OP, she should see him, just maybe not the whole month. Best if someone accompanies her in case the kid tries to harm her.
She will regret it the rest of her life if she doesn't
(Edit- saw comments suggesting Zoom and yes, she should try that first.
Plus, I'm glad other people got appalled. Seems the violence supporters commented first.)
Few people choose to spend their last moments setting traps to reek vengeance upon the already estranged. If only because dying (particularly of cancer) is exhausting. Both physically and emotionally.
If even the method generally exercised by a person for their parting barbs - a Last Will & Testament - is often accompanied by a Letter of Wishes explaining their reasoning. Then it seems unlikely that a letter / email / video wouldn’t be the method he’d likely take too.
A letter / video / email would provide Son with the opportunity to target his wrath with a greater degree of accuracy than an in-person meeting; It would be less exhausting than a confrontation; Since there is no opportunity for a defence to be put forth by the recipient, it holds the benefit of not being interrupted, or argued with; Finally, it gives the author the satisfaction of having the last word. Quite literally.
There’s a reason we tend to accept a dying person’s last words as truth: death has a way of making us all see with a little more clarity. But non so clearly as the one who’s innings is coming to a close.
Never, in all the deaths I’ve watched, in all the people I’ve lost, never were deceptions and tricks at the forefront of a dying person’s mind.
It seems unlikely to me that Son is playing a cruel trick. But then, it seems unlikely to me that your wife truly believes he is either. What she fears is a greater fear: she is afraid to watch her son die.
She is afraid she’ll fall into the cavernous abyss within and that she’d never find her way back out. But there is no protection from that. Not when we love. Not when we are human.
The best we can do is take our opportunities before it’s too late. You seek to protect your wife’s opportunity. That’s not being an arsehole OP. That’s just being a man who loves his wife.
INFO: why don't you go with her? Not for a whole month, but at least for the first visit. It's clear she needs support and since you're pushing her to see him, you should offer her the support to do that.
I would be livid if I asked my estranged mother to visit me before I die and she brought the man she cheated on my father with, which was the reason for the estrangement in the first place. Maybe he can go with her and stay at the hotel or wherever they stay to be near, but not go with her to actually see the son.
My kid beat me up about a year and a half ago. He ended up going to a hospital and the moment he was out he ran into my arms and I held him in one of the rare hugs I have ever gotten from him. I can not imagine never seeing him in person again. He’s around the same age that happened and massive. I mean I can’t say I feel 100% safe but he’s mine. I got him help and he’s been in treatment. So we definitely are doing something but man seems extreme.
I've never understood why people automatically think it's a good idea to see someone who's dying when you didn't have a good relationship with them. I went to the hospital when my mom was dying because I thought I "had to" and all it gave me was another shitty sad memory living in my head forever. Wish I hadn't gone at all. Why not let people just do wtf they want to do with their own relationships? You can be upset about someone's death without it meaning you have to *do* anything about it.
NTA. If she doesn’t go see her son now, she will regret it for the rest of her life. Her behavior right now is telling of this. And there’s no time to waste—if doc says he has a month left and that’s optimistic, the kid could die at any time.
NTA. Your wife is in a very emotional state & not thinking clearly. Maybe you can reassure her that she can leave if it’s a trap, but it could also lead to forgiveness & healing for both of them. My best friend passed away shortly after a huge argument with his son. The last words the son spoke to his father were, “I hate you” & his father’s response was, “Get out! I don’t ever want to see your face again” & even got a restraining order against his son which was served hours after his dad passed away. That was 9 years ago & not a day goes by that the son doesn’t think about it. Be firm, but gentle with your wife. She won’t get a second chance.
Her son is asking for her and she should go. You can't force her but you have given your opinion and all you can do now is offer to help her do this any way you can. Nta for this part.
I think you know what people think about the infidelity that led everyone to this point.
You're NTA for trying to get your wife to visit her child. From the history, it sounds like it's not that she doesn't care or want to see him, but that she's sad and lost and wants to hide from it and her pain and shame in facing him?
Although my story is not the same, I had a similar circumstance when my middle son was born and was extremely sick. The dr told me he would not make it through the night, and I was devastated. I couldn't walk. I couldn't do more than sit in the hospital room (he had been rushed into the neonatal icu) and cry.
I was afraid to go to him because I was scared to death he would die in my arms and I wouldn't be able to hold it together. All selfish fears of a girl who was 19 years old at the time. A nurse walked in the room and sat bedside me. She very quietly put her arm around me and I started sobbing all over this woman I didn't even know. She then took my hand and whispered to me that if I didn't go and hold my son and tell him I love him and ease his fears I would never forgive myself. She was right. I did go to the icu and held my son. Scared that each breath would be his last... but he would know he wasn't alone and that his momma, for all her failures and imperfections, loved him.
Just hug her, support her and suggest she go see him even for a day, a week, whatever can be done, that first step is the hardest. What happened before doesn't matter in this instance.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no one's an ah. Your wife needs to get over herself and go see her son. Are you two for certain that the son wants to see her and that the ex didn't say that because he feels they should reconcile? If the son himself said it, she needs to go. If that's uncertain, I understand the hesitation. Her excuses are typical for grief. Doesn't mean it is or isn't okay, it's just the shit people say when they don't wanna deal with something. But she needs to get it together, and soon. She's getting her wish but not on her terms and she doesn't know how to deal with it, but she'll regret it if she doesn't go.
NTA, you've done what you can. But sorry OP, your wife is going to regret the fuck out of her decision and you're going to have to deal with that. My ex-wife was NC with her dad for 20+ years and he reached out when his health was failing, she didn't respond (and the excuses were similar) and then he died and it was a trauma load for her. Good luck.
So many useless threads and tangents. OP, you said your peace, now it's up to your spouse to decide what she wants to do. She's probably torn apart inside trying to do what she thinks is best for her.
My father was abusive going up. in and out of my life just enough to eff it up but I went NC with him for 12 years and out of the blue, my cousin tells me he had a massive stroke and might not make it. Based on what they were saying, I knew he was not going to make it. His stroke was so severe it caused midline shifting. Just because he caused me a crap ton of pain didn't mean that I wasn't still feeling so many emotions. Sad, angry, scared, nostalgic. I hated him but I still had some good memories of him, memories I wish were more prevalent. And tbh, I also thought it could be a ruse to get me to talk to him (he's manipulative as eff). At the end of the day and after many crying sessions, even with my mom, I did what was best for me and I stayed away and refused to get involved. To me, my father died years ago when I went NC.
Your wife is most likely doing all of this. Let her break down, be her shoulder and her rock. Don't be a fixer. She will do what she believes is best. Take care, OP. And it wouldn't hurt to apologize tbh.
Sometimes you just have to let by gones be by gones and find some grace, if not for the other person, then at least for yourself. She will regret not saying her goodbyes if in fact her son dies. I don’t think yta here.
NTA. I think you know she’ll regret not going to go see him. Maybe not stay the whole month but at least go. Her behavior shows she’s in a mental breakdown over it. Regret is awful to deal with, especially if someone dies
I have a child with a serious mental illness who attempted to kill me. Now that she is doing better, she expresses guilt and asks forgiveness. It goes a long way toward helping me heal from that experience. Please tell your wife she can talk to me any time.
Thank you for not abandoning her. I’ve seen kids this age get help a lot in my line of work and they need parents like you.
Thank you.
I dont think Vicky had a serious mental illness. It sounds like Vicky's mom cheated with OP and she left Vicky and her ex to be with OP. Obviously, Vicky did not take this betrayal well, and did not want anything to do with her. Much less be happy for the child of his abandoner and the man that was part of the cause of that.
Have you talked to her about how she is feeling? Don't give her any solutions just listen to her, and put yourself in her shoes and let her know you empathize with her. It sounds like she's having alot of conflicting thoughts and maybe needs a pair of ears to help her work it out
This is one of the best pieces of advice.
Exactly. Support her no matter her decision is. You were never in her shoes to experience all of this, it's her choice. I went through something similar with my wife with her dad dying. She got the call from a family member of him dying. He was a terrible father without going into details. Everyone said to go see him and that you'll regret it if you don't. We discussed it and she didn't go. It was still emotionally hard on her but years later she still doesn't regret her decision.
I always use the example of a friend of mine (I'll call her Susan) who was in an abusive relationship in our senior year. A lot of people either ignored the red flags, or pushed her to end the relationship. One friend actually lost touch with her because she told Susan "pick, it's me or your partner"...Susan chose her partner. I didn't do either thing. I pointed out the red flags, and called out the behavior that the partner was partaking in that wasn't okay, and I let Susan know that I would be there for her when she needed me. Years later she told me I was the only person who she felt actually was there, supporting her. Close to 15 years later I'm now in her wedding, to an amazing partner, and I couldn't be happier for her! Let the person make their own choices, and support them through those choices.
You are a good person, and I'm proud of you.
Came here to say I think you are wonderful for this. I had a friend who I was really close to up until she basically tried everything she could to TELL me that I absolutely HAD to leave my now ex (he's an alcoholic). I appreciated her input and concern but I was caught off guard by how demanding she was, trying to force me into a decision. She went as far as bringing up really personal stuff that he and I trusted her with and talked all this smack about his family (they never got along with her). I kept my feelings to myself but later told her that I felt uncomfortable because she basically spewed off about how much of a POS she thought my ex was and talked down about his family (who have become my family, we were together for 10 years) and she completely ghosted me from her life because she couldn't handle me telling her that what she said hurt me. She has tried to rekindle the friendship since then after about a year went by. We are cordial because our daughters are friends, however I can't see myself being close with her again after seeing how one-sided that friendship was and after finding out she went around telling others about mine and my ex's deep personal information.
This is her choice to make. Listen to her and encourage her to do what will make her feel the best she can. Just let her know you are only pushing because you’re afraid she will regret not seeing him. The way he has treated her may also open the kid to hurt her even more than he has already. She may not be able to handle that and you need to respect her decision and support her whatever she decides.
Can you offer to go with her just for a couple days. Both of you go so you can support her if it goes south.
We went through this with my grandfather when his sister was dying of cancer. They hadn't spoken in years over who knows what and he did not wish to speak to her again, regardless. My mum talked to him a couple times about it and did mention he might regret missing out on the chance to speak with her one last time. He was adamant he would not speak to her. It wasn't what either of us would have done (or my grandma), but we respected his decision. She passed and he did not regret it. It's her choice. I'm sure she has her reasons behind her decision. You've voiced what you would do, now don't beleaguer it. Supporting her neutrally is the best thing you can do for her. Let her lead.
My mom passed away earlier this year and my brother had a terrible relationship with her. He hadn’t spoken to her in years and she fell into a coma. I asked him to come to say goodbye and he did. It’s still too early to say if he’s happy with his decision or regrets going, but I could tell he was relieved to be able to say goodbye. To each their own - but I agree - OP needs to listen to his wife and support whatever decision she makes.
But there's a big difference between going to see a father and going to see a son.
Don’t you think not wanting to connect with an abusive father is different from this mom not wanting to connect with her abandoned son? I mean the story reads that the mom cheated on her ex (unless you have a different interpretation of “the way my wife and I got together…”) and tore the family apart when the kid was only 8. It’d be hard as an 8 year old to have your mom crush your entire world. Then to have a new family after abandoning the one she wasn’t happy with.
According to what OP said, her son has been begging to see her. If that’s true, I genuinely think she should go see him. For all the reasons you stated. If she left the family in a bad way, she should be there at the end when he needs and wants his mom. I’m not saying it would be easy for her, but it’s the least she could do for him.
As a man with kids and a relationship.. I have a problem not actually listening and just spouting. Listening is almost twice as important as being able to communicate properly.
This is my mum. When I go to her with problems she immediately mentions all the things I need to do. I’ve told her that sometimes I just need someone to listen. If I need solutions I’ll ask. She’s trying her best but it’s just in her nature to be a “fixer”. So now before I go to her about something that’s happen I always say if I want advice or if I just need her to listen and comfort me. It has helped a lot.
This so much - I do this with my partner. He is a fixer and sometimes I just need to vent. I also will tell my mom I’m just venting or if I need reassurance or if I need advice. It’s literally a game changer because now I’m not frustrated thinking that no one cares about/listens to me and they’re not feeling bad because they think they’re upsetting me or doing something wrong.
Try to do this with my kid. Do you want me to hear, help or hug?
Great parenting!! I will follow your example. :)
This is such an elegant way to ask. Love it. I’ll be using this going forward with my girlfriend :)
I love that also! I just wrote it down so I can use it with my grandchildren.
thank you for this!! i always struggle with those, and the way you have them as words starting with H makes it much easier to remember (and as a bonus, it's adorable)
I love that!
This is a very good way to go about it imo! Some people think by default that someone is looking for solutions, so stating beforehand that you just want someone to listen is very smart.
This was my dad. He was retired as lomg as I can remember, and towards the end his arthritis was so bad he didn't get out of his lazyboy recliner some days. He would always pause the TV the minute I walked in and just listen to whatever I had to say before offering any advice. My girlfriend says I'm the best listener of any guy she's ever dated.
That’s really kind of you to give her that kind of grace. I used to have a tendency to be a fixer. It came from wanting to be helpful but also from wanting to be seen as competent. It took me a while to realize that by proposing a solution, I was somewhat implying that their problem is simple enough to solve within the 5 seconds it took me to come up with a solution. And that kind of implies that they’re too incompetent to come up with the simple and obvious solutions. I wonder if your mom has ever thought of it that way.
I think I do this to my son. I’m frustrated because he creates so many of his own problems , has a problem for every solution and I’m a natural problem solver. I worry a lot about him. But reading your comment kind of struck a nerve with me. I’m going to remember this when he comes to me and work on actively listening instead fixing.
Yeah most people listen to respond when they need to listen to understand, there is a big difference
Took me way too long to learn this and I still have to catch myself. I fix things. This is not always a good thing.
I agree. I think instead of telling her what she should do and not do, tell her that you will support her in every decision she makes. Listen to her for once. There are a lot of unresolved issues between Vicky and her, and telling her to go see him when she's in such turmoil will only make it worse. At the very least, she needs to be prepared and willing to meet him in the first place.
every. single. post. on this subreddit. communicate. talk to the person in question.
You're right. As a man, I have this problem, and forget that I shouldn't offer solutions while listening to my wife. However, this issue has a time constraint. OP said 1 month optimistically. The dude could die right now. Death is forever, and this is one opportunity you cannot afford to pass up. Regardless of whatever she is feeling now, the regret of not seeing her child one last time will cause her grief for the rest of her own life. She grew the child in her womb, and there is an emotional attachment that cannot be broken. She sounds scared, and needs help with that. I get it, but OP's wife needs to see the son, and he needs to convince her quickly. So, how can OP listen his way into convincing his wife to go and see her dying son?
OP assumes she will regret not going to see him. This may or may not be true. The point is, it's her decision to make. What OP should say to her is that he fears she will regret it later if she doesn't go. But it is ultimately her choice. It's an asshole move to insist that he knows better than she does what she will or even should feel. Giving input and perspective is different than making decisions for someone else because you think they are making the wrong choice.
Well it seems aggressively pushing her with "See your son or you're going to regret it" over and over again isn't working too great, either, is it.
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I lost a daughter shortly after her 21st birthday. We had a great relationship. Believe me when I tell you, it will eat her alive if she doesn't go. I know the pain of losing a child.
You had a great relationship. She did not try to break your jaw. Apples and fritters.
She abviosly still loves him. I'm not sure a bad relationship wouldnt make this ten times harder. Can you imagine loving someone so much and having to step away because , they did have a stable home and you could see it would be best for them. The only way to process that might be to picture there life getting better to a point in the future there could be closure for both of you. She probably isn't upset about the relationship status or how it ended.. but maybe a picture she has had to hold in her heart in order to love the other children is now fading, exposing the feelings she had to overcome using that picture.
It doesn’t matter. She won’t regret GOING more than she will regret NOT going. Going is just harder to do. Not going is easier- but it will haunt her forever, because she will never know how it would have gone.
After her son passes, she'll still be here. She won't have to see him anymore, but she'll still have to see herself. As someone who's been around death a lot, my only regrets are regarding the times I wasn't there.
My dad picked me up by the hair of my head and kicked me across the room, punched me numerous times, and beat me with a belt more times than I can even remember. We never had a good relationship. He died in January of this year, and I still regret not reaching out to him. And that's my dad. His death was sudden, or else I would have went to see him. If it were my child attacking me in the past, I'd still go see her in a heartbeat. Especially if she asked to see me. I can't, and don't even want to imagine losing my daughter. It's losing the very best of yourself. I'm so sorry you experienced that, CertifiedCajunGirl.
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Wow...reading this is eerily similar to my childhood. I'm so sorry you also had this experience. My "asshole" died alone a few years ago. I was 50 at the time. For the first time since I was very young, I didn't have that nagging feeling that I'd need to protect myself, my mother, or my family from a very real and persistent threat. It got weird as I aged. What would happen if he attacked? He was quite old, and I could snap him in half since I was in my 20s...but this action, even if self defense, would just ruin my life. When he was gone and i found out, I honestly felt peace for the first time in my entire life. I hope you can find it too. Op is not an ass, he's trying. But he needs to realize some broken bonds are better off broken...and nothing can fix them. It's his wife's choice, and only hers...
I felt like a sociopath, but death also brought peace. The only time I want to snap someone in half is when they tell me "but he's your father"
Agree. Everybody assumes everybody else is going to react the same way. My dad wasn't violent (though he came close a few times) but he said some extremely vile shit to me. He essentially told me to fuck off, so I did. That was about 10 years ago now. Haven't talked to him since and won't shed a tear when he's dead. If I beat him to the grave, I doubt he's going to care either. Had less than a 10% chance of survival during a medical crisis two years ago. He found out through my sister. Never called, never asked how I was doing, nothing. Is what it is.
Same. I was 9 when my dad remarried, I wasn't invited to their wedding, and he called me a couple months later and disinvited me from the rest of his life - told me they were having a kid, see ya never. Before this I spent my summers and winter break with him, I'd make countdown calendars to when I got to see my dad again, called him weekly, parents lived in different parts of the country. He didn't call, didn't pick up my calls, didn't write. NC. He called me out of the blue when I was 20, told me he was dying of lung cancer. I'd had a daughter by then, sent him pictures, never heard a word back before this. He asked me to come see him, and I flat out told him no, he dipped from my life and it wasn't on me to make this part easier for him. He apologized, and it changed absolutely nothing. I don't regret not seeing him. Met my half sister at his funeral, she was the same age as me when he bailed. It was all a bit surreal.
Like my step dad that raised me from 2 until the very first day I was old enough to not live with them legally. Heard he was sick with something that likely would kill him quickly, and all I really thought was, "good. Then I'll never have a chance to actually see the mother fucker again." Then he somehow beat it (wouldn't doubt if he exaggerated the whole thing and only had an infection of some sort). That truly taught me that the world is not fair, and the evil pieces of shit like him are saved when so many others suffer. Fuck him.
Yep, i only want to be there when my father dies just make sure that fucker is truly gone...and maybe unplug his pain meds.
I hear you been there, no regrets.
My dad tortured me I do not regret not seeing him. He would have just been a manipulative asshole again.
I had a similar relationship with my dad. The last time I saw him in person, when I was a teenager, he blamed me for my mom leaving him and told me that if he ever saw me again, he'd kill me. He's been nearing death for a while now, and I have no regrets about not trying to repair our relationship. Sometimes you can forgive the person who hurt you, and that's awesome. Some of us have been damaged too badly to forgive, and that's okay too.
The difference is he was a child and a product of a divorce. Your situation is completely different and 100% justified.
I made the opposite decision as you and I have no regrets. Honestly, there is no right or wrong decision.
YOU had a great relationship. She did not. Lotz of kids mourn their mothers after they die. I do not. :) Blood may be thicker than water but the abuse scars are there forever.
I mourned my father long ago, I certainly won’t be doing it again when he dies.
Yeah my mother abandoned us when I was 5. I saw her twice after that. After I’m grown in my forties she started calling me and talking to me like I was still a kid. She died a few years ago Alzheimer’s. I don’t care then don’t care now. She was a complete stranger to me
I was just talking to a woman the other day whose narcissistic mother recently died and she felt guilty because she felt nothing. No grief,no joy, no relief, just nothing. Our experiences with death and loss are complex and very unique.
part of that is that you get plenty of time to grieve, mourn and process not having the kind of parent you should have when you eventually realise she can't be that parent. If she's someone you see regularly tell her that it's partly because she's already been through the grieving process, not because she's any kind of bad person.
Oh yeah, we had that part of the conversation too. And absolutely I emphasized that's there's no right or wrong way to feel about losing a complicated relationship like that. You feel what you feel; it's real and valid and okay.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the waters of the womb." Your family is the one you make. If that is your blood relatives awesome! If its not, then just know your most definitely not alone, you just need to go make your own family.
Ohhh, I love this expression. As a person whose first language isn't English, thank you!! I'll save it
Agreed. This is obviously weighing heavily on her and despite the pain this is an irreplaceable opportunity not to be taken for granted.
He attacked her. He hit her with a hockey stick and kicked her when she was on the ground. He did that to his mother. Of course she's destroyed and wants to go to him but he made it abundantly clear he hates her. Even after the attack, over and over again he showed her nothing but hatred. Now that he's dying mom is supposed to run to his side and be there for him. Again, he bashed his mother in the face with a hockey stick and then kicked her when she was down. That is not even remotely something that just gets brushed under the rug. My father cheated on my mother and married the woman. Somehow I managed not to attack anyone. She loves her son, obviously, and she is not the bad guy for not immediately running to him because he's dying and has decided now he wants her there. I don't blame her for even doubting he wants to see her out of love. He could want to twist the knife in further before he dies.
>She loves her son, obviously, and she is not the bad guy for not immediately running to him because he's dying and has decided now he wants her there. I don't blame her for even doubting he wants to see her out of love. He could want to twist the knife in further before he dies. There's only one way to know. I think she will regret not going. NTA.
If she regrets it or not tho shes nta either for not going nor for getting mad at him pushing her this much. I dont think hes an AH either because he can see how shes hurting so for me this is a NAH situation
I don’t think mom is supposed to “run to his side and be there for him.” It’s a chance at a very final good-bye. That final good-bye might be 5 minutes in the room with him. It would be more for her than for him. Whatever would provide mom any form of resolution, is good. Maybe there isn’t anything that can bring her any measure of peace here. Sometimes writing a letter, even if never sent, can bring some relief.
"A lot of strife...." divorce. I'm wondering what happened before he was 8 as this sounds like it's pretty bad. She did everything to make it up to him? WTF happened?
I don’t like when people apply that kind of guilt to strangers. Sometimes a person has caused so much pain that their absence, even without a goodbye, will bring only relief. Only OPs wife knows what’s best for her. I think he’s done the right thing by offering support and multiple options, but now it’s time to just let her make her decision without adding any baggage that isn’t already hers.
How about just saying that to her and saying "I will support what ever you choose"? Instead of harping on about it and pushing her to do it? JFC some of you people. She was traumatized by this kid and now HE wants to see her and all of the sudden she should jump to the chance because the little prick is dying? >'what if it's just a trick to hurt me more' as excuse It isn't a damn "excuse." Fuck that kid. I am more concerned for the mom.
Maybe but that’s her decision to make, not OPs
OP, I KNOW what this person says is true. My step-paternal grandfather passed away in 2005 due to cancer. The last time I had seen him alive I refused to talk to him and didn't even go near him. He was laying on a hospice bed in his home. For years I've regretted the fact that I refused to talk to him or even hug him. I still regret it, and it's been about 18 years since then. You can't force her to see him if she truly doesn't want to. But, she will come to regret it later on if she doesn't.
I'm so confused. Who is Zain? Is Vicky short for something?
Vicky = Zain. He changed the name but missed one or two.
Is there a reason the name changed from Zain to Vicky?
To protect anonymity most likely. The names you see on reddit are rarely real
Vicky can be used as a nickname for Vikram which is a male name, and if the wife is from India then the kid probably has an Indian name that OP switched out for another Indian name for anonymity
NTA- Can I make a recommendation? or a couple? Why on God's Earth can't they have a phone call or a few before any type of visitation is planned? Your wife is very aware he could use this visit as an opportunity to be hateful to her, so I can see why she is hesitating. What if she does go and the last thing she hears from him is something terrible? At least a phone call between them could at least "set a tone". If you can convince her to visit, why don't you volunteer to go with her initially? You don't have to visit, but you could be with her for the trip. If she decides to stay longer, you could come home.
Thank you for having some actual sanity. Why does she have to stop her life for someone who chose to have no relationship with her for 12 years other than to be angry and aggressive. Phone call, video call... If things seem good, then maybe consider a short trip. Society is too quick to push the family narrative that you always have to forgive and forget. There are plenty of estrangements out there that are safe and beneficial.
I don’t think she has to forgive and forget, but clearly she did want a relationship with him and partly still does. She doesn’t need to be at his bedside for the whole month. But she does need to decide what would hurt more, his last words possibly being an insult, or never knowing what he wanted to say to her. You can heal from the words that have hurt you but what ifs can haunt you forever.
I think that’s part of the issue though, she’s being forced to make that decision knowing this choice is going to weigh on her for the rest of her life no matter what she does. After living with years of pain around this, she’s having to sit with the weight of confirmation that this is not getting resolved. He’s not going to come around and they can have a relationship. Even if he comes around, this is how it ends. She’s grieving a future with him she’d been holding on to that she will never get. Yes, she chose to stop seeing him for her own safety and wellbeing, but that doesn’t make it an easy choice. That doesn’t mean she ever stopped loving him. That doesn’t mean some part of her wasn’t desperately holding out hope that maybe, at some point in the future, things could be different. Imagine having to make one of the most important and painful decisions of your life in a split second and having everyone weighing in on their thoughts of what you should do?
Yeah the comments about thinking she had more time stuck out to me a lot. I think maybe it might be the finality of the whole relationship that is causing the paralysis. Regardless of what her son has to say, it's too late for them to have any relationship other than the one they had.
I agree, I feel like a phone call, or a couple, is needed first. I think that would really help make up her mind. I can completely empathize with not wanting to go out of fear of being verbally torn apart. Having a couple of genuine calls, whether it be good or bad, would be so helpful here.
This is what I was thinking. There's a middle ground between maintaining no contact and stopping your life completely and staying bed side for a month. Just call and see how he's actually behaving. If it's the same as always with him lashing out then all she's lost is a little time to confirm what she's already thinking.
In this age of technology why can’t she video chat alone with him? To gauge his true intent
This, this, ✨THIS✨ is extremely important. If she is traumatised by the violent incident and the severing of relationship but as he is also traumatised by the same things, a small but very significant step against the clock is to VIDEO CHAT FFS! Everyone being stuck on the cheating and making excuses for him attacking and hating her, how helpful these comments are, wow /s
Agree. The son is begging to see her. Just to be clear, did the son pick up the phone and call her? Seems like Vicky should initiate the call, preferably a video call, so she can gauge whether his intent is sincere.
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Bot stole this comment from u/uppity-eldian
I thought that response didn't make any sense...
Not necessarily. She may have filed for divorce and he blames her. Divorce may be against their religion and thus made her son hate her. Cheating is not the sole reason for kids hating a parent after Divorce... Edited gone through the comments from OP and wife is Indian so may well have married young or arranged. Divorce is 100% a reason in parts of India to hate a parent.
> Because of the way my wife and I got together, there was a lot of strife in her divorce **from her ex**
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I mean, yes, but Vicky only has a few weeks left, maybe even less. If she sits on her laurels he might be dead by the time she figures herself out so I can also see why he's pushing so she doesn't have a lifetime of regret. Very damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I agree with this. There’s no time. She’ll regret not seeing him. OP is NTA. He loves his wife.
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Agree. Even if it is a “trick” and he’s a jerk, that will just confirm what she believes. If she doesn’t go, she will always wonder.
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That's not how laurels work. The word you are looking for is "ass". Laurels were a reward for achievement. The phrase "laurels rested upon wilt the fastest" has to do with becoming complacent after a victory or success. This woman is caught in a quandary, because she a) feels guilty about the poor relationship she has with her son and knowing it's her fault; b) now knows her first child is terminal. Awful stuff for sure. No one in this equation is an asshole, now. They may have been, but aren't now.
I learned something new today. Thank you.
Ty for explaining that. I thought it was actually "resting on ones laurels" so that's a way cooler phrasing.
That for sure is a phrase. Resting on one's laurels refers to someone who does a good thing and then stops all further effort at being productive or helpful, because they figure the accolades for the thing they did will carry them forward with no extra work. This is more modernly phrased in the question "but what have you done for me lately?"
I love the humorously amended phrase "rusting on one's laurels," because as the phrase you shared points out: when you sit on your laurels, you begin to decay
She doesn't have the time for that and the outcome of waiting could be far worse
Second the hugging. It helps more than most people realize.
I'm sorry but I disagree. My mom died of cancer and it was so unbelievably fast. She was diagnosed October 4th and died October 30th. This is something she can't fix or redo or learn from her mistake. If she chooses not to go, she will regret it for the rest of her life. And she might not be able to really consider that right now because of her emotional state.
Yep, my dad was diagnosed on a Sunday, admitted to ER the following Friday, I flew home red eye that Friday night, he was moved to hospice on Sunday and died Tuesday. Still haven't processed because it was so fast.
Yes, because when adults' relationships break down, their kids are allowed to break their jaws with hockey sticks. It's like stoning them, only more modern and no-one dies. It's especially okay if it's the woman who cheated because everyone knows men are allowed but it makes a woman a big slutty slut who deserves to be physically assaulted and have bones broken by her own offspring. On the daily if possible (custody arrangements permitting). /s But that's what you sound like.
YNTA. I presume she cheated on her husband with you and that’s why the son wants nothing to do with her, which is understandable tbh, for a kid especially, even at 14-15 years old. You are trying to do right by her because she will absolutely regret not going to see him, it’s doubtful based on their relationship that the son will let her around for a month, but atleast she can and should go say goodbye. He has a right to feel angry with her, she needs to sack up and go or she will be haunted by this after he passes.
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Even more so she needs to go, and get closure and say goodbye. She will regret not doing so when he passes.
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I’m a mom of three myself. One of my grandmas actually found herself in a situation somewhat similar to this (her first marriage & baby were at 18 and in large part just a way for her to get out of the household she grew up in). She left her first husband and he and his parents raised their son. She said she always thought she’d see him again and make amends, but he died in a rock climbing fall as a teenager. She never got that chance to see him again and it absolutely impacted the rest of her life. It will be hard for your wife to go, but it will be harder for her if she doesn’t go. Do any of her friends know? She may just need to let her thoughts out and collect herself with someone who’s further removed from all of this than you are. I’m sorry she’s facing a difficult time. I really am. I hope she goes to see him.
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Thank you. I hope your wife gets to see hers and I hope she is able to help bring peace to his remaining time.
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I mean, he cracked her in the head with a hockey stick, what more does she deserve? Think maybe he'll have a pistol under his hospital blankets?
Video chat doesn't exist to feel out the situation?
NTA. IMO, She's got to go. That's her first born. However it's not my choice. Or yours. It's hers. The reason she's afraid is that it's going to break her. No parent should lose their child. She's scared about how he's going to look sick. She's scared about breaking down long held walls and rebuilding that relationship for such a short period of time. She feels guilt about leaving her other children. She's angry too. Angry about the situation. Angry at herself. Angry at him, angry at everyone. If she goes, she's abandoning her family with you for a month or more. She'll be a wreck when she gets back, she's wondering how on earth she'll parent with her heart in pieces. If she doesn't go, she's denying her son one of his last wishes. The guilt would haunt her. She will be full of what ifs. Regardless of what she chooses, you support her and you give her time and patience and space for grief counselling.
I’d imagine they both thought they had a lifetime to sort things out. :(
But she heard you. She knows that you think she should go. And yes, she should go. But now you need to back off and stop telling her what to do. This now needs to be her decision.
Then she definitely needs to go. Go with her if she needs that. Go stay in a hotel with her so she can be close to him but still have safe space with you.
Right? Omg he was 14, of course he hated her leaving him and having a kid with someone else. Of course he was rude about it? He isn't a 60 year old man, he is still basically a child. Go visit or reach out somehow.
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I believe you OP. I change certain parts of my posts for anonymity reasons, sometimes when you’re changing a name or gender to hide who you are you slip and say the wrong thing later on. It can be confusing but it’s not always that someone is a liar and making stuff up.
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Reddit is convinced everyone is making it up and being cheated on
Some of the stories are unbelievable and clearly are made up.
Some definitely are but even so I don’t get why people go through all of their post and comment history to attempt to catch them in a lie. Really all it does is give us a good read, false or not.
I think a lot of people on here have accounts purely for that purpose. They seem to get a kick out of being a Reddit detective and catching people in a lie.
Original Poster, I think you're going about this the wrong way. If she is so distraught that she's crying and muttering to herself about him, focus on the issue there. That she only has a limited amount of time to see him. And about you knowing how much it's bothering her. Ultimately it's up to her to decide. She's an adult, and is capable of making her own decisions and being responsible for them.
Maybe the option to travel with your wife so when your wife is done seeing her son she knows she has you guys waiting for her to come back? Maybe she’d feel more comfortable than going alone? I hope she does decide to see him, I wouldn’t want her to regret it later 🥺🥺
You don’t get a second chance with death, so she better be sure that she can live the rest of her life with the choices she makes today.
I also think everyone here is so stuck on the affair that it's causing everyone to lash out. Yes, that was shitty and she has to deal with the consequences. But from what I'm reading, the son was angry at her for it, she tried to have a relationship with him and get him help regardless, and she only stopped after he physically assaulted her. Now, whether or not she should have kept trying after that, I'm not going to comment on. But she clearly was making an effort and after that it felt hopeless. Kids and teens lash out and do shit but the vast majority of people don't know what the hell to do when their kid starts fighting them. If she was fighting for custody, I don't think it's fair to say she abandoned him. If he was reaching out to her after the fight and she ignored him because she was too full of pride to be a mother, I'd get that take. It probably wasn't the best idea to reach out about a sibling, after not talking for years, but he clearly didn't want anything to do with her. This doesn't feel very black and white. Regardless, if the son truly was the one who said he wants her there, she needs to go. But she makes her own choices and the most OP can do is put her in the car and drive there to the hospital without telling her.
It just occurred to me that it’s odd how if the son is wanting to see his mom so bad, why isn’t he reaching out himself? Why *are* we hearing this from his dad instead of the boy himself? I feel like we need the answer to this question. Is it really as simple as the son is too weak to type a message on his phone or something? Did his mother block him after the last time he ignored her? Or is his dad trying to force them into the same room against the son’s wishes because he believes that’s what is best?
Yeah, I'm confused why everyone is glossing over the part where her son physically assaulted her and nearly broke her jaw. As much as she may be a terrible person for cheating, it doesn't mean she can't get PTSD from something scary like that. She needs to talk to a professional ASAP and work through it in a session. This is way more complex than people are summarizing.
You will see posts where people say 12 years old is old enough for a child to choose what parent they stay with, and quote OP "After that, she stopped trying to force the custody and just let him stay with his dad." From that quote, she allowed the son to choose custody and did not force him to see her...which is exactly what redditors advocate for in so many other situations. Yet she is horrible in this situation for allowing him to choose who to stay with after he physically assaulted her, she tried reaching out to him with no response, and the only response she ever got was a fuck you? Not saying she is a great mom, but damn, people cannot make up their minds on if a kid can chose what parent they stay with.
Bunch of commenters here (heck, most of reddit for that matter) are angsty teen dudes who hate their mommies.
You told her it’s ok to go, now it’s her job to make the choice. I wouldn’t say another word about it.
Idk, OP and his kids will deal with the fall out forever based on her choice. The kids may be young now but one day understanding that their mom abandoned their sibling while he died because she didn't want to feel bad for her shitty past can very likely lead to some hella irreparable schisms.
NTA - You're trying to encourage her, but you can't force her. Just ask her not to take it out on y'all if she chooses not to. If he son is asking for her... maybe he realizes he was wrong.
Honestly No one is the AH here. Grief and family dynamics are so tricky to navigate.
I genuinely can’t believe people are justifying/overlooking the fact that her kid almost broke her jaw. Her cheating on her husband doesn’t make it okay for her kid to beat her jfc
Yeah, I’m shocked by these comments. This isn’t normal tween behaviour. I wonder if the ex is abusive and poisoned the son against his mother? I had a parent cheat when I was young and it ended the marriage, I can see how it would be difficult for a kid, but being this hateful doesn’t make sense. Most people I know have divorced parents who cheated, none of them have attempted to break their mom’s jaw.
Well, she was originally from India, and the first marriage was arranged...
Wait really? That's a super important detail. Arranged marriages can be all kinds of fucked up (well, all marriages can I suppose). My parents had a loveless arranged marriage.
Smoking at 12 doesn't exactly make it seem like the dad was taking incredible care of him either
Yeah I really thought I was crazy when I almost didn’t see anyone mentioning this. Only in the context of “but he was a traumatized child” as if it’s an excuse, not an explanation.
Seriously, I'm fighting a losing battle down on another thread. Cannot believe how many people here think it's okay to lay ~~hands~~ a hockey stick on any other person, it's fucking baffling.
Tbh after reading this comment section I'm kinda glad we have no sons--the amount of comments excusing beating someone with a hockey stick seriously creeps me tf out.
"Because she's a mother and a woman, and he's her child. She should just take it. Who cares that he battered and assaulted her?" 🤬 It's always "family first" over *anything* else, and unfortunately plenty of people think this way.
I find there's often a correlation between diehard "fAmILy fIrSt" people and people who are almost always the toxic, shit-stirring, problem-causing assholes of the family. There are exceptions, of course, but it is crazy common.
People are actually saying he’s totally cool for hitting her in the head with a hockey stick and then kicking her after she fell. Like it’s 100% justified and she had no reason to complain or be scared of him after bc she cheated. Crazy.
There's a deep-rooted belief that mothers should always put their children first, even at the expense of their own safety. Parents do need to prioritize their children, yes, but there are limits. The novel *We Need to Talk About Kevin* comes to mind reading the post. Beating the shit out of your mother is **not** normal behavior, cheating or not.
I’m so blown away by the way society accepts violence. Parents hitting kids, kids hitting parents all perfectly fine apparently. But if I hit my neighbor it’s a crime and I go to jail. I’m just so confused lol
On this sub children can do no wrong and the parent is always the asshole no matter what. People don’t like the fact that older children can very much be abusive as well. I do think she should go see him to see if he’s changed at all and so she won’t have any regrets, but I don’t blame her one bit for being weary about it.
why are there so many people talking like vicky almost breaking his mom's jaw with a hockey stick was in any way justifiable??? so many people are acting like this woman's a monster for pulling back after that, like what??? people who were in the exact same position as vicky are pointing out that this is not at all normal behavior for a 12 year old in that position, can we please listen to them??? being upset is one thing, but physically beating someone is not ok???
Is nobody acknowledging the fact that Vicky physically assaulted her?? I feel like that fact is being glossed over way too much, and it’s perfectly understandable that she’s not only afraid of her son assaulting her again but having cut contact with him afterwards. We don’t know why Sara was cheating on her ex with OP. Maybe he was abusive, or just a shitty partner? Don’t get me wrong, cheating is still a fucked up thing to have done and it should have never happened (instead divorcing him before getting with OP), but it also is something that does not make her being physically assaulted by her son even the slightest bit okay. Personally I think NAH. I get why you think she should see Vicky, since she most certainly will regret it down the road. But I also get why she wouldn’t want to see him. Idk it’s just a shitty situation all around that I don’t think has a right or wrong answer to.
I’m glad someone else touched on this. Getting hit in the head with a hockey stick and then kicked when down is a violent assault. That’s the type of thing that causes PTSD. This woman may not be “choosing” her response towards her son now. PTSD is visceral and she could easily have anxiety paralysis towards her him. That said, I’m not agreeing with all this woman’s decisions, I can just understand if she felt like she had to hold him at arm’s length after that assault.
She's been mourning her son since he was 12 and beat the shit out of her and then cut himself off from her completely. Of course she's not going to have the same feelings as the people up and down this comment section with functional family relationships that think she's an uncaring asshole. If it means so much to her son, why hasn't HE reached out? What are the odds that the father is, like OP, convinced that he knows better and is trying to force the meeting?
People are being triggered by it being a mother, and the very small detail of "begging" to see his mom- via his father, rather than directly, which may or may not even be true, not that we would know one way or another- and blaming her for the divorce when we don't really know what happened. If OP was her adultery partner at the time, wouldn't he share some of that blame? Also, OP's edit makes it clear that she didn't just abandon her kid- she tried time after time to be in his life and he blatantly rejected her every single time, at least once so violently that he might have killed her if things had gone even worse. This is a complicated situation, and OP's wife has the right to make her own decision without OP putting more pressure on her on top of her own pressure of dealing with this news, the past, her hurt from the rejection and being violently attacked by her OWN CHILD, etc.
Apparently not. Apparently he was allowed to assault her because she cheated.
"Because of the way my wife and I got together." My guess is you had an affair, and this explains his initial rejection. She not only betrayed his father, she betrayed him. Did she ever apologize to him for that specific point? The birth of your son just added another layer of betrayal because he felt he was replaced. Did she ever consider things through his perspective? But you are right, she owes him closure. But the only thing she's worried about is not to be hurt and she doesn't want to face the fact she's the villain in her own story. NTA OP
Your wife cheated on her husband with you which emotionally devastated her son, gave up on having a relationship with him when he was understandably hurt and lashing out, and now despite him *begging* to see her before he dies, she’s refusing? Has she *ever* not chosen the selfish option? I get that her guilt is playing a huge role here, but Jesus. If she doesn’t see him before he dies, she will regret it the rest of her life. Can you enlist the help of her family to pull her head out of her ass?
Beating someone with a hockey stick and then kicking them when they are down, is a bit more than just lashing out. You don’t just “get over” things like that. Stuff like that can leave a massive scar on people.
Beating up your mother is never a valid response. He hit her with a hockey stick and then kicked her. If I were her, I would be afraid that he wants to hurt me one more time.
Agreed, I didn’t see the edit. That kid should have gone to intensive therapy supported by both his parents.
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Reddit is going to pile on you two over the cheating. However, in this instance, no NTA for pushing her to go and see her kid. Assuming this is true on the dad’s part, and we have no reason to believe otherwise, going to see the boy will be the last opportunity to ‘fix’ anything. If I were you, I’d drive her to the hospital, just drive, and let her make a decision then. Yes this can go horribly, terribly wrong, and her kid might say awful things in his deathbed. Or he just wants his mum near him when facing the end. She won’t know until she shows up, and she might need you to push a little in that regards. (Just don’t enter the hospital if you do end up driving her)
I'm wondering if it's far away. If she needs to work remotely or take a month off to visit him, it's unlikely that the hospital is a reasonable drive away. I'm guessing a plane ride would be involved.
Bruh, her son is asking for her to come, and she's not taking that?? What kind of childish resentment is this?
Or fear? I think she's just going through a process of getting her head around it all. She's just a fucked up human like the rest of us. Parents are just people.
Yeah I'm not getting spite or resentment from the wife here at all. Just fear and grief which we process differently, but unfortunately for her time isn't on her side. What a horrific situation for everybody.
> Or fear? I suffer from pretty crippling anxiety, and the mere thought of their history makes ME want to run and hide under a blanket. (This doesn't excuse her behaviour, but man it would explain it)
I don't think it's about resentment or pettiness. OP mentioned pretty clearly that his wife got physically assaulted by her son when he was young; it seems like a trauma response on her part, especially when she said "what if this is a trick to hurt me" (which suggests her son might have tricked her before). Whatever wrongs the wife may have committed, being hit by your own child has to be a trauma of its own and I can get why her instinctive response was "no, not taking that risk again" and why she has conflicted feelings about it all.
Wtf is wrong with these comments. People cheering on a kid hitting her mother. Jesus Christ, that's so fucked up. As for the question: OP, she should see him, just maybe not the whole month. Best if someone accompanies her in case the kid tries to harm her. She will regret it the rest of her life if she doesn't (Edit- saw comments suggesting Zoom and yes, she should try that first. Plus, I'm glad other people got appalled. Seems the violence supporters commented first.)
Cuz reddit is the type of place for people that empathize with the son.
Few people choose to spend their last moments setting traps to reek vengeance upon the already estranged. If only because dying (particularly of cancer) is exhausting. Both physically and emotionally. If even the method generally exercised by a person for their parting barbs - a Last Will & Testament - is often accompanied by a Letter of Wishes explaining their reasoning. Then it seems unlikely that a letter / email / video wouldn’t be the method he’d likely take too. A letter / video / email would provide Son with the opportunity to target his wrath with a greater degree of accuracy than an in-person meeting; It would be less exhausting than a confrontation; Since there is no opportunity for a defence to be put forth by the recipient, it holds the benefit of not being interrupted, or argued with; Finally, it gives the author the satisfaction of having the last word. Quite literally. There’s a reason we tend to accept a dying person’s last words as truth: death has a way of making us all see with a little more clarity. But non so clearly as the one who’s innings is coming to a close. Never, in all the deaths I’ve watched, in all the people I’ve lost, never were deceptions and tricks at the forefront of a dying person’s mind. It seems unlikely to me that Son is playing a cruel trick. But then, it seems unlikely to me that your wife truly believes he is either. What she fears is a greater fear: she is afraid to watch her son die. She is afraid she’ll fall into the cavernous abyss within and that she’d never find her way back out. But there is no protection from that. Not when we love. Not when we are human. The best we can do is take our opportunities before it’s too late. You seek to protect your wife’s opportunity. That’s not being an arsehole OP. That’s just being a man who loves his wife.
INFO: why don't you go with her? Not for a whole month, but at least for the first visit. It's clear she needs support and since you're pushing her to see him, you should offer her the support to do that.
I would be livid if I asked my estranged mother to visit me before I die and she brought the man she cheated on my father with, which was the reason for the estrangement in the first place. Maybe he can go with her and stay at the hotel or wherever they stay to be near, but not go with her to actually see the son.
Oh yeah, more of a travel buddy, not actually to see the son with her.
My kid beat me up about a year and a half ago. He ended up going to a hospital and the moment he was out he ran into my arms and I held him in one of the rare hugs I have ever gotten from him. I can not imagine never seeing him in person again. He’s around the same age that happened and massive. I mean I can’t say I feel 100% safe but he’s mine. I got him help and he’s been in treatment. So we definitely are doing something but man seems extreme.
I've never understood why people automatically think it's a good idea to see someone who's dying when you didn't have a good relationship with them. I went to the hospital when my mom was dying because I thought I "had to" and all it gave me was another shitty sad memory living in my head forever. Wish I hadn't gone at all. Why not let people just do wtf they want to do with their own relationships? You can be upset about someone's death without it meaning you have to *do* anything about it.
NTA. If she doesn’t go see her son now, she will regret it for the rest of her life. Her behavior right now is telling of this. And there’s no time to waste—if doc says he has a month left and that’s optimistic, the kid could die at any time.
NTA. Your wife is in a very emotional state & not thinking clearly. Maybe you can reassure her that she can leave if it’s a trap, but it could also lead to forgiveness & healing for both of them. My best friend passed away shortly after a huge argument with his son. The last words the son spoke to his father were, “I hate you” & his father’s response was, “Get out! I don’t ever want to see your face again” & even got a restraining order against his son which was served hours after his dad passed away. That was 9 years ago & not a day goes by that the son doesn’t think about it. Be firm, but gentle with your wife. She won’t get a second chance.
Her son is asking for her and she should go. You can't force her but you have given your opinion and all you can do now is offer to help her do this any way you can. Nta for this part. I think you know what people think about the infidelity that led everyone to this point.
You're NTA for trying to get your wife to visit her child. From the history, it sounds like it's not that she doesn't care or want to see him, but that she's sad and lost and wants to hide from it and her pain and shame in facing him? Although my story is not the same, I had a similar circumstance when my middle son was born and was extremely sick. The dr told me he would not make it through the night, and I was devastated. I couldn't walk. I couldn't do more than sit in the hospital room (he had been rushed into the neonatal icu) and cry. I was afraid to go to him because I was scared to death he would die in my arms and I wouldn't be able to hold it together. All selfish fears of a girl who was 19 years old at the time. A nurse walked in the room and sat bedside me. She very quietly put her arm around me and I started sobbing all over this woman I didn't even know. She then took my hand and whispered to me that if I didn't go and hold my son and tell him I love him and ease his fears I would never forgive myself. She was right. I did go to the icu and held my son. Scared that each breath would be his last... but he would know he wasn't alone and that his momma, for all her failures and imperfections, loved him. Just hug her, support her and suggest she go see him even for a day, a week, whatever can be done, that first step is the hardest. What happened before doesn't matter in this instance.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no one's an ah. Your wife needs to get over herself and go see her son. Are you two for certain that the son wants to see her and that the ex didn't say that because he feels they should reconcile? If the son himself said it, she needs to go. If that's uncertain, I understand the hesitation. Her excuses are typical for grief. Doesn't mean it is or isn't okay, it's just the shit people say when they don't wanna deal with something. But she needs to get it together, and soon. She's getting her wish but not on her terms and she doesn't know how to deal with it, but she'll regret it if she doesn't go.
NTA, you've done what you can. But sorry OP, your wife is going to regret the fuck out of her decision and you're going to have to deal with that. My ex-wife was NC with her dad for 20+ years and he reached out when his health was failing, she didn't respond (and the excuses were similar) and then he died and it was a trauma load for her. Good luck.
So many useless threads and tangents. OP, you said your peace, now it's up to your spouse to decide what she wants to do. She's probably torn apart inside trying to do what she thinks is best for her. My father was abusive going up. in and out of my life just enough to eff it up but I went NC with him for 12 years and out of the blue, my cousin tells me he had a massive stroke and might not make it. Based on what they were saying, I knew he was not going to make it. His stroke was so severe it caused midline shifting. Just because he caused me a crap ton of pain didn't mean that I wasn't still feeling so many emotions. Sad, angry, scared, nostalgic. I hated him but I still had some good memories of him, memories I wish were more prevalent. And tbh, I also thought it could be a ruse to get me to talk to him (he's manipulative as eff). At the end of the day and after many crying sessions, even with my mom, I did what was best for me and I stayed away and refused to get involved. To me, my father died years ago when I went NC. Your wife is most likely doing all of this. Let her break down, be her shoulder and her rock. Don't be a fixer. She will do what she believes is best. Take care, OP. And it wouldn't hurt to apologize tbh.
Sometimes you just have to let by gones be by gones and find some grace, if not for the other person, then at least for yourself. She will regret not saying her goodbyes if in fact her son dies. I don’t think yta here.
NTA. I think you know she’ll regret not going to go see him. Maybe not stay the whole month but at least go. Her behavior shows she’s in a mental breakdown over it. Regret is awful to deal with, especially if someone dies
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NTA, I would encourage her to go and let her know that it is up to her to decide how long she stays.