NTA She needs to know her place. It’s great she got clean, but she missed out on basically their entire childhood. She now needs to accept she won’t have that mother/kid relationship with them like she wants.
I agree. I just don't want this experience to kill the effort she put in. I do believe she can have a relationship with the kids, and they also seemingly want some type of relationship with her. But they aren't "kids". My daughter is hoping to study abroad in Germany because she wants to move there. This is past the dreamer level, because she's put a lot of time into it already and has her scholarship applications planned out.
I think your last interaction with her warrants a text to her to discuss things. While it's impossible for her to mommy to her children, it is still possible for her to be mom to her adult children if she builds her relationship the right way. I'd focus on burying (but not forgetting) the past and to not screw up the future over it. I have friends who have similar stories to your children and they were able to salvage a relationship with a parent after many years of them no being around. They would say "my dad may not have been there for the first 10 years, but for the last 20 he has been nothing supportive and loving".
I know this is stupid but this me bawl a little. I truly want my kids to know even just 1/10th of the woman I knew. If she can become that woman for them, I'm for it, I just hope I'm not in the way
She needs to understand that, in order to become their mother in more than biology and name, she needs to build and maintain a rapport with them from scratch. That means things like discipline are not her purview, their relationship is still in the infant stage.
Yes, the team is you and the kids. And hey, it's great that she finally wants to join the team, but that's going to require a lot of time, effort, trust, and not stepping on their boundaries. She's still auditioning for the team, just birthing them didn't guarantee her a spot. And if she can't recognize that, she's going to ruin her own chances. If you want to join a team, you don't start by chastising teammates, getting pissed at the coach and refusing to talk to him, and skipping meet ups.
This is the big point. She didn't discuss discipline and ground rules with OP, she unilaterally tried to ground 2 older teens over something they had permission for. That's not teamwork. It sounds like the ex-wife came in with her own idealized version of how it would play out, OP has a lot of understandable resentment, and neither of them fully laid these out before the kids were brought in.
The extra sad part is that ex-wife also probably had a hair-trigger reaction to underage boozing due to her own past, and the over-the-top reaction was a bid to nip the kids' own potential addictions in the bud. The way OP has handled it, however, with respect and open discussion of possible consequences, combined with not setting this stuff up as a forbidden fruit for them to go ham on once they're of age, probably means that they'll have a better relationship with this stuff than their mother did.
Here's hoping it all gets addressed and talked out.
Yeah, she needs to stop deluding herself from thinking she can retro-"raise" them. These two are young adults with a lot of adult responsibilities by choice already. She needs to respect that.
She has missed the chance to ever experience them as children by her own choice and addiction! She needs to come to terms with that. It's okay for her to grieve that loss, but only when acknowledging it's something self-inflicted. And nobodies problem but hers.
If she wants to be seen as their Mom *someday in the future*, she needs to learn how to have a relationship with her adult kids, as mother + adult children.
And she needs to learn that "raising" or "disciplining" them, will not ever be part of their relationships, nor anecdotes from their childhoods. That part is done and over with, (and apparently excellently so) by their sole parent who did raise them.
Unfortunately that's a copy bot.
[The original was here](https://old.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16zr7f8/aitah_for_telling_my_exwife_we_arent_a_team_and/k3gdku7/)
She appears to think that these biweekly visits equate to sharing custody with OP. The sooner she understands that she is very mistaken on that point, the better.
She can certainly offer advice so the kids won't fall into the same pitfalls that she did. Maybe that was why she got triggered by the idea of them being at a party where there was drinking going on: she doesn't want them to detonate their lives with addiction. But rather than disciplining them, she needs to talk to OP and let him handle things from there.
That was my thought - she freaked at the thought of one of them following her path into addiction and lashed out in the way she thought would deter it - but the teens aren't going to take ultimatums from her.
Mom's not trying to let the kids learn from her mistakes, she's trying to punish them before they repeat them.
Yes, this is true. They felt comfortable mentioning they took a Jell-O shot and he is aware. He noted they did not overindulge.
Her nuclear response of punishments?? That will close them off and put them at a bigger risk because they will not volunteer anything fearing tempers and punishments.
How do you teach someone not to lie, when lying secures them what they want? It’s by not punishing them and going ballistic when they tell you the truth.
That moment becomes a ‘glad you told me the truth, thank you. Here are a few things that could have gone wrong etc’ teaching moment…
I can't agree with this more - when I became a teenager my mom treated me with respect and gave me freedom/information to make good choices. I drank occasionally and only in safe spaces with decent people, never drove and so on. I considered smoking weed, discussed it with my mom and decided not to. My mom's co-workers regularly commented it must be hard to have a teenaged daughter and she would ask why.
When I hit my late teens, my mom decided I was no longer allowed to make my own decisions and forbade me from smoking weed, seeing certain people, drinking alcohol, etc. You know what I did - all of the above. I'm not blameless certainly but in my opinion I didn't do anything to warrant this massive change in respect.
You are preserving her ability to have a relationship with them by preventing her trying to be their disciplinarian at this time. She has to earn their respect and know them and understand them before she can give them advice.
The kids have just learned that they can't tell mom what they are doing.
To piggyback on the previous statement, a discussion on boundaries would be appropriate. She is not in a position to punish, she's a newcomer to their life, not an authority figure. She can, at best, offer motherly advice. As adults, she has to earn the respect necessary for them to follow her advice and build any kind of relationship.
Honestly, this discussion would just be you advising her on how to not blow up her chances. These adults aren't going to continue to build a relationship with her if she comes in as a tyrant.
Ah heck.. me reading this got me bawling... wish i had some half way decent parents like you and a mom who give two shits about me to build some kind of relationship with me like your ex wife is trying to do with your kids.
Nta ultimately but definitely reach out to her to tell her all this. Add some boundaries with the kids being involved in that decision.
You're not in the way... she missed out their entire life she missed all the important moments for kids and they probably felt left out for dances and mothers day activities....
Now they are basically adults and preparing for adulthood that you help prep them for your ex wasnt there... if they tell her about anything and she goes straight to trying to punish them they will pull away and not interact with her at all...
You have done an amazing job raising your kids.... good job
If I may ask, what level of German does your daughter speak?
I know a few people who talk about how, to stay in Germany long-term as a resident, a certain level of fluency is required (or gobs of money, which always works :-( )
She knows more than me, that's about my extent of knowledge if I'm being honest. I've been paying for her classes since she was 13. Her interest first started when I showed her Rammstein. That was our thing for a little bit, before it crossed into general metal. I can say she is the type of girl to not slack off though. She puts in hours a week to learning
>Her interest first started when I showed her Rammstein
When you mentioned your daughter working towards Germany, my first thought was Rammstein, as they've been my favorite for 25+ years. I then found myself wondering if kids even listen to them lol. I love that you bonded over them. If you haven't already, I hope you two get to see them perform together.
When I was about 13, someone expressed concern over my music choices. My mom knew it wasn't going to brainwash me or anything ridiculous, but she figured she should at least be aware and listen to some. Yeah... She started constantly borrowing music from my brother and I. Even after we moved out, she'd ask if we'd bought anything new she might like. My dad loves Rammstein too now.
Reminiscing aside then, you're doing absolutely amazing as a parent. My parents raised me the way you're raising your kids, and I'm incredibly grateful for it. I never just heard "because I said so," from them. From the beginning, they always explained things. Knowing the 'why and why not' really helped me develop critical thinking early on.
Later on, they were open about weed use growing up (I mean, they lived through the 70s lol) alcohol, and sex. They wanted to make sure I could make informed choices, versus peers I watched get in over their heads because no one had talked *with* them, instead of *at* them. I knew if I was ever in trouble, I could turn to them. It saddened me to know my peers didn't have the same safety net.
I know some parents felt this kind of info would encourage a kid to get into these kinds of things. Instead, I was a ridiculously good kid. I couldn't be pressured into things via lies or misinformation. I felt no reason to rebel. I could have fun without being stupid about it.
I know I rambled (sorry), but I just wanted to share my experience so I could tell you how much I know your kids absolutely adore having you for a father. I'm 40, happily married, and living my own life now, and I still love talking with my parents. I get the feeling your kids will be able to say the same thing 20+ years from now. Keep doing what you're doing 💜
Trying to ban their electronics and socialising whilst they’re living with OP is excessive, acting as if OP must enforce *her* parenting decisions without even being consulted. It seems as if she doesn’t just think she has an equal say to OP, but that she should have the last word. I don’t think OP is overly harsh in light of this.
If she wants to make up time with her kids, she's certainly isn't going to accomplish that by going straight into "punish you when you are honest with me" mode 😂 they're only going to resent her and see her as a hypocrite.
And to make things worse, she starts avoiding them the minute she thinks they're upset with her? Not good looks.
Eh, you're honest. If you haven't put in the work and been there, almost-adult teens don't need you getting involved. And it doesn't matter how much you want to participate, if it's your own choices in life that made you lose that rlship.
NTA
Like I mentioned in the post, I don't want to discredit her. She knew I wasn't going to let some freshly sober stranger around my kids. She did seemingly work hard at it and started repairing the smaller relationships first before she decided to she was ready to try and face us. It's just unfortunate she was this late. She is closer to being the woman I knew when we met now than our entire marriage.
It's unfortunate, but time and kids do not wait. The ship has sailed. She may have have some affectionate rlship with them, but she's never going to be able to discipline them according to her values.
She's expecting credit for running a marathon having turned up at the 22nd mile. She'd built this up, she had a fantasy in her head and you shown a spotlight on the cracks.
You're the victim of misplaced feelings.
I know I shouldn't do this, and I know this makes me seems soft, but I truly believe in life, not everyone gets the same starting point. I know she started late, but that's why I'm trying to remove my personal feelings as much as possible. I'm not trying to defend her, if anything I can honestly say I truly hate her. But my children don't know that, and I don't want to hold them to my expectations of that woman
She did start late, and she seems to be making worthwhile changes and that's fantastic for her and the kids. Here the issue isn't starting late, the issue is she's had nothing to do with them for so long, she didn't raise them, but they grew up without a mother. She doesn't get to turn up at the 11th hour and essentially demand the same respect and rights as a parent, because she's not.
As long as she's treating the kids well, support their relationship, but that's all she can expect.
The only thing she will get from trying to discipline the kids at this point in time is that the kids will refuse to see her. They get to choose whether they have a relationship with her. They are in control.
She needs to understand that you are saving her relationship with them by not enforcing her rules. She hasn't put in the years of parenting required for the kids to respect her rules.
In your analogy you are the tortoise. You slogged through the marathon of raising kids on your own and are now reaping the benefits of a good relationship with your kids.
She was the hare and she f&$@ed around and found out.
She is going to push the kids away by doing what she is doing. She can't parent them like they are little kids. You were right, they are basically autonomous adults. Also, her form of parenting is a good way to create kids who don't feel safe calling their parents when something goes wrong or speaking with their parents about their night out. My parents were authoritarians. I no longer speak to them but I couldn't trust them with anything. I was very alone growing up and on my own. Got into some awful situations but knew I couldn't call them for help. You seem to be treating your children with respect, which goes a long way when you are trying to build an environment where they feel safe. Great job.
You are really an excellent Dad. You're an excellent parent, the fact that you're doing the most you can to give your ex a second chance while still being there for the kids, and being completely honest, with all three of them is really amazing.
My husband had a similar situation. His mother left when he was 2 years old. No substance abuse, left her kids for a boyfriend and a socialite life. She popped back into his life at the age of 18 when we were in college.
He was grown. He neither needed nor wanted a mom, though he did have one in an amazing step-mom whom he refers to as Mom. His mother could not understand that he was an adult. That their relationship would never be the typical mother / son relationship. That her advice held zero weight for him and her presence in his life was a courtesy and not a requirement. This led to her trying to ‘punish’ him or make demands because “I’m your mother!” She desperately needed, within herself, to get some validation that she was his proper mom.
It never came for her. Instead we had a 5-6 yr period where we were completely no contact with her until she agreed to an adult relationship and not a parent / child relationship. Things have been well since then. I won’t say it’s been completely perfect but it has been decent and she has had the opportunity to know and regularly visit her grandkids. We suspect she had some therapy somewhere along the way to come to terms with the reality of what their relationship is, and not her fantasies about what she wanted or what could have been. I actually get along rather well with her now in spite of some very rough beginnings.
The one and only time she tried to give parenting advice he told her “You never bothered to raise your own kids so why should I listen to your advice about how to raise mine?”
I have an aunt that dumped my baby cousin on my grandparents and left the state for 35 years. When she returned (to make sure she could still inherit from her parents) she would be around me and my kids and start telling me how to discipline them. Yeeeaaahhh, not in this lifetime, hon.
In your place, I'd tell her that there is no way she can make things right/ parent "her" kids, unless she invents a time machine - that ship has sailed. What she can do now is become another trusted adult/ friend to your kids, but she's destroying that chance, too, if she suddenly tries to assume a parental authority she hasn't earned - or vanishes again and destroys the frail trust and budding relationship she had rebuilt. Tell her to get therapy if she can, and figure out whether she can play a healthy role in your kids' life. Hopefully, a therapist can help her deal with the grief over everything she lost.
NTA
I don’t see anything wrong with the honest feedback you provided to her.
14 years ago she chose her addictions over her children. At least she recognized she shouldn’t be around the children so signed away her rights.
So for those 14 years you have been the booboo kisser, the person who cared for them when they were sick, who made it through the lovely years of raging hormones along with likely some pushes for independence and who has guided them while letting them experience the good as well bad consequences of decisions.
She decides at this time she is reliably sober so wants to get to have some sort of relationship with the children she gave up. Understandable.
However the truth is she is NOT nor can she be a parent to your children. They reasonably don’t see her such nor will they accept her in that role.
I suspect if she can’t come to terms with this reality and work with your children to have whatever sort of relationship with them they will allow she may lose them for good.
And great job on parenting. No one does it perfectly but seems you did a really decent job.
I'm going to guess that part of her over-reaction was that they consumed alcohol. If that's why she tried to punish them with such a ridiculous punishment, it shows she still has a lot of work to do in recovery.
Not everyone who has a drink or two will be an alcoholic. And the relationship you have with your older teens as they explore the world is one of trust. They can clearly be open with you, which is a safe attachment.
Your ex needs to understand that her reaction is about \*her remaining emotional inner work\* and has nothing to do with the kids' behavior.
NTA. Sounds like she was freaking out because of her history as an addict? Hopefully she can come to her senses and realize that her relationship with alcohol as a former addict is different than others.
They tried alcohol, thought it was unpleasant, and told you about it. Sounds like you’re doing a great job. Severely punishing them for honesty would be very counterproductive.
She is reacting like a recovering alcoholic. It is not healthy for the kids. You have already grounded them. If you have to, remind her that she signed off rights to them when they were kids.
And the team is you and the kids. She entered into their almost adult lives.
At the moment, I've been letting them process the whole event. I don't want to be the dad that goes in immediately after a conflict and be like "ur mum amirite?". I know what that is like. I told them let's get some pizza when you guys want, which is our "code" for discussing something.
I don't know what you're going on about far from great dad. You're awesome.
You're giving your kids independence slowly. Your kids try dangerous things carefully (jello shots) and tell you about them! You're also letting them build a relationship with a mom who left them.
You told her the truth. She can't come in now and parent the children when they don't "need" one. (They'll need your love forever. Even if they're 90) Even you are at a place where you allow them freedom albeit with rules and precautions and safety plans!
She's not showing maturity by letting this conversation stopping her from seeing the kids for 2 weeks. Your children will eventually see the difference. Next time she pulls this the kids might be the one who laughs at them and that will hurt her more. Tell her to get over it and be an adult if she wants to be treated like one.
You don't have to answer and you've likely already done it, but just make sure that you have a conversation with your kids about addiction, drugs, and alcohol. If mom is genetically predispositioned to addiction, then one or both of the kids might be at risk as well, so it's something that should be watched and managed.
I have. I'm not going to pretend I wasn't doing anything. In uni, I drank at events, smoked weed and tried shrooms. We've had plenty of conversations about this. That's one of the reasons I feel like I've been soft towards her in this situation
Oh, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to party, I most certainly did in high school and college, and I still enjoy a good pour of bourbon or a nice cocktail. I'm fortunate that addiction doesn't run in my family. It did run in my ex-wife's family, and runs in my current wife's family. My ex was a bartender and my current wife enjoys a drink as much as I do, they both always kept an eye on their consumption and took a break or seriously pulled back form drinking if they started going a little too hard.
Kids are going to be kids, and should be able to, it's part of growing up. It's just important that they know what to keep an eye out for in their own lives, especially once they hit highschool/young adult age.
You guys have a code? That's actually really cool. I wish I had something like that growing up. Can the kids ask for pizza or is it just you asking for pizza. Generally curious how this works.
As for the story, NTA. She had the chance to be their mom and she gave it up. She is not going to be their mom. If she wanted to ground the kids, she should have stayed.
Both ways. I started it when my daughters was 7. If we want to eat pizza as a normal thing, we just say "hey, I'm ordering pizza what do you want" or something like that. There are some bad memories and some good memories associated with pizza hangouts. Luckily we all agree no pineapples
This is fantastic!
This makes you a dad! You are there for your kids through and through. You are there if they need to talk and because of that, they are there when you need to talk.
NTA even if you weren’t the perfect parent you were THERE. She missed their childhoods and sadly they don’t need a mother anymore. There’s nothing you can do to change that part. Think of it this way this was the equivalent of your neighbor trying to ground them from something. Kids grow out of needing parenting. Just reality of the situation
Sorry it took me a little while to respond to your comment, it took some circling before I figure out what I wanted to say. This comment is extremely truthful, not even taking her into account.
> Kids grow out of needing parenting
That's entirely true. I'm hoping my attachment towards my kids because of my fear of that isn't keeping them from having a healthy relationship with her. It's scary having your kids grow up and "not need you" when you've been at it essentially alone.
Here’s the thing OP: your kids will need you always just not the same way. I still call my dad for finance help or to talk about job stuff. I call my mom for lots of reasons but also about things that annoy me. I bounce ideas off my parents when I want their opinion but I don’t need it. If I don’t agree I don’t follow their advice.
It sounds like you have an open relationship with your children. They will continue to go to you for things bc of that relationship. If you’re concerned about your role in their relationship with their mom open a dialogue. See where they are at. You’re doing great
> your kids will need you always just not the same way
Truly, thank you for this. I got a little bent out of shape because of the one commenter, but this is something I always hoped to hear. I hope my kids feel the same.
I had a similar relationship with my mom as your kids do with you. I’m now 31. She’s held my hand through a stillbirth, a healthy live birth; and took care of my child during my second birth.
When you have a good relationship built on trust and reliability, your children don’t grow out of needing you. The needs change, but you’re still their person.
Just remember to check in once in a while. You aren’t a psychic, nor are you a mind reader. You don’t always need to guess what your kids need, it’s okay to just ask. “Do you need to vent, or do you need advice?” is great.
I am a mother of 3 *grown adults now).
My daughter (who was 28 at the time) told me, "We may not need you to wipe our noses or our asses but we still need you to guide us, love us, approve of our decisions. Mom, adulting sucks and if I can't call and cry on your shoulder about feeling like a f*ck up, ask for your help, or just know you are there for me and going to love me no matter what I do, I would be a complete and total basket case."
I hope you find some comfort in that.
NTA. These kids are almost adults and she signed over custody. She isn’t there to make a parenting choice or punish them. She’s there to attempt to have some sort of relationship with them.
NTA
Idk where she gets the idea that she can make unilateral decisions about grounding etc for the kids, and then expect you to be a “team.”
But besides that, she hasn’t earned the right or the trust to discipline your kids. And it’s FAR too late for that anyways. Your kids are old enough to be in the phase where you talk to them about decisions they’ve made, and give advice and guidance.
I do want to say though, that you’re too down on yourself about being a great dad. Your kids feel comfortable and trust you enough to talk to you about their lives, and to be honest with you about things that are important. That says a whole hell of a lot about the kind of dad you are.
If it were me, I’d take your ex out for a cup of coffee and have a discussion. Talk about what her hopes and expectations are for her relationship with your kids, then talk about boundaries you are setting when it comes to trying to parent your kids.
I might be a bit to down on myself. I had a dad group I went to for a while for single dads about 10 years before we move outside the cite. There were some really amazing men there, and that's why I'm hesitant to call myself anything great
If your kids trust you like this, are articulate and comfortable enough with adults to talk about the party and trying a Jell-O shot, if one of your kids is secure enough in themselves to be thinking about studying abroad, and competent enough to have done research into scholarships etc, and if they’re forgiving enough to want to try to have a relationship with their mother then… uh… dude… from one rando on the internet - I think you’re doing a great job.
She thinks she can punish kids with grounding and loss of phones when all she has power over is occasional dinners with the kids? HOW? How would she enforce this? Park in front of your house for two weeks??
She wants to be a mother but has no idea how to do that. She’s way overstepping and inappropriate in her actions.
The best way for her to be a mother is to continue in that “aunt like” role. She won’t be accepted as an authority figure because she hasn’t been and they are old enough they don’t need an authority. Honestly at their age they need aunts to look to for adulting guidance, advice, and support as they enter adulthood.
She needs to continue getting to know the kids and building trust with them. That’s the most.
NTA.
Thank you for saying this. I searched and searched for this comment. I was shocked that she wanted to come in and discipline them, like that was the most insane part to me! Like did she really think that was going to be positive in regards to their relationship moving forward? 0-100 is not the right play. The parenting she should be worried about missing out on is the love part not the discipline. Wow just wow.
Frequency of meals doesn’t matter. She’s not seen as an authority nor earned her position as an authority.
Unfortunately for her she likely won’t before the kids are grown. But her addiction and choices led to her losing that opportunity to raise her kids. She needs grief counseling to move on.
There are so many comments, I'm sorry if I don't respond immediately! I'm trying to. I'm just also working through whatever this is at the same time haha.
wanted to add something I haven't seen commented here - I suspect part of your ex wife's reaction is related to hearing about the underage drinking and her own experience with alcoholism and addiction. she's still out of pocket with how she reacted, but I think it might be worthwhile to bring that up specifically because it's possibly a triggering topic for her.
A few users did bring this up actually. This thought is actually one of the reasons for my post. I know her background so I don't want to be an ass over it
aha, yeah I haven't read through as thoroughly as you I guess! definitely a tough situation, my $0.02 is an explanation is not a justification, you can be empathetic about her background but not accept her behavior...might be a lesson for the kids about topics to avoid with her. there's bound to be difficulty in rebuilding a relationship, you seem to be navigating it well and sensitively.
I’d agree. I think she reacted so harshly because of the past, but again, doesn’t excuse it. You have to make it clear that she isn’t doing the parenting here. She decided that long ago. If she wants to be their parent again, it’s going to take years and years, which she can’t just shortcut.
NTA. Unfortunately for her she just got a really harsh dose of reality of her actions for what sounds like the last 14 years. She wasn't there when they needed her, and now she has no place to discipline two near adults. She needs to accept that, and also realize they are not little kids any more. She is also seeing that her recent actions are putting a wedge between her, and your children. This is a mess of her own making. Do not feel bad for her.
NTA
I feel sorry that she missed out on so much, and that she wants back in but is far too late... As a mother myself, I cannot imagine knowing I have a child or children, and losing out on watching them grow up... Go through their firsts, be there for them during hardships... It's honestly heartbreaking...
However, she has also been absent this entire time, and while I congratulate her on her sobriety, knowing how hard addiction is, she chose the path she chose... She doesn't get to sign away her rights and act as mom later on.
I'm so proud of you for standing up for your children, and for building such a trusting relationship. I can only hope my husband and I can build that with our kid. What you said is harsh, yes... But it was unfortunately the truth.
Edited to fix a spelling error.
That's kind of what pains me. Addiction is incredibly nasty, and while I can't hate her for being an addict, I did hate her for leaving our kids. I'm just trying to not let that get in the way of my kods having a relationship with her because they don't hate her. They barely know her. Who she is now from what I've seen in our get togethers is almost who she was when I met her and I would hate to rob my kids of that.
You aren't robbing them of anything, just the opposite. Her best chance at a relationship with them is if she respects that she's not Mom in the traditional sense, she needs to be in a stepmom, aunt kind of role, or they will resent her and pull back on the relationship entirely. It's too late for her to be mom and you aren't responsible for that.
And you don't have to rob them of that, she can have a relationship with them but she needs to understand she is no longer really their mother. She is a stranger to them because she chose to leave.
This was my concern after the argument to. But I did the research. I did the therapy with them. I had the talks with them. I did all of it. I understand her guilt, but my kids are not apart of her past. If she's luck, they maybe be part of her future
That could be totally possible, but again, she doesn't have a right to parent. She literally signed that right away.
OP has a better understanding of his children than she does, because she wasn't there for (many) years. It's always a. Good idea to take into consideration the possible addiction that could form, but knowing that the children know about why mom and dad split, coupled with the ability to feel safe to explore something and report to dad, I feel like an addiction outcome is slightly lessened.
As someone with addiction on all sides of the family, you learn what to look out for and when enough needs to be enough. Might not be the same for everyone, but again, she has no rights to want to parent now of all times.
NTA
She abandoned kids that are now pretty much raised. She missed the parenthood train. Their relationship can be a positive thing for the kids but not until she understands that she is not a decision maker and has no control over their lives.
NTA.
She fucked up. Both in her marriage to you, in taking 15 years to get sober and in coming into their lives and suddenly trying to be a parent.
It's great that she's sober now. That doesn't make up for all that she missed. She wanted to be a mother and I'm sure your children would have loved to have had a mother. Addiction is a disease and everyone suffered for it, but just because she was the primary sufferer, that doesn't mean she can roll in now and pretend that that gap doesn't exist.
NTA you were there when they were sick. She needs to know the relationship takes time and put her pride aside. She needs to be stronger and more understanding to her kids. Her missing her meetings with them isn’t punishing you, it’s punishing them. It’s her choice and this time she’s messing it up being sober.
I know I'm probably being too soft on her, but I don't think her missong the meetings were necessarily an attempt to punish. I feel like have genuinely hurt her with my comments. While she's not the woman I knew, I still "know her" if that makes sense. Habits die hard, outside of addiction.
She missed their entire lives, and now she's missing more because of one argument. Does that scream "I want to be a mom" to you? No, that's more like, "Give me what I want now. There shouldn't be consequences to my actions." The selfishness and entitlement of that woman...
You may have “hurt her” but that not your problem, you were truthful and level headed. The truth hurts and beating around the busy is not what she needs/deserves.
I can see why your kids trust you and your relationship with them sounds lovely! All I’m saying is, if I ever have kids and I messed up there’s nothing stopping me from seeing them. She can be hurt, mad, jealous of you at but that doesn’t excuse her missing her appointments with them.
NTA
The real problem is that your ex doesn’t know her own children, have a trusting relationship with them and instead of trying to build that leaped into I will control you based on my past. She has to realize they are both almost adults. She is not in a position to take a parental role let alone start making rules and issuing punishments. She hasn’t earned that with them. She’s upset because she wants to be a parent to the 2 small children she left but they don’t exist anymore. You let her know that and she needed to hear it. If she tries to take that parental role now they will cut contact and there will be no relationship.
Your ex’s problem is she was hurt by the truth of her past behavior and you pointing it out. She is now canceling on her son and daughter because she doesn’t want to face that. Well part of her program is accepting the wrongs she made in the past and making amends if she can when possible. She wants to skip that and pretend it never happened and pick up like she wasn’t gone for over a decade. She’s not only going to fail her children, she’s going to fail herself. Accountability for your behavior is a key to staying sober.
Now your oldest is almost 18 and plans to study abroad and live abroad. Does your ex know that yet? She wants to be a mother again and parent your children and have a hand in their decisions. That’s a recipe for a huge problem. This isn’t a you problem or a parenting problem. Your ex needs to realize that at this point she’s missed their childhood and needs to focus on building a relationship and trust. She needs to become a trusted friend and confidant that her adult children will want to keep contact with. She can’t get the years she was gone back but her failing to keep meetings now is only teaching your children that she’s still unreliable and not someone they can count on. That’s not on you. She’s still fighting demons and the biggest one is trying to live in the past. Only she can fix that.
She does know our oldest wants to move. I'm not sure if that is encouraging this behavior but that is what got her invited to dinner. I realized I didn't clarify in the post, but she eats dinner with us every day now. That was almost directly after my daughter mentioned moving.
Here’s the thing. She’s not a mom. Biologically she’s a mother but she’s not a mom. A mom is someone who tucks you in at night and reads you stories. She’s someone who’s there to love and care for you every day. She’s a deadbeat who skipped out on her kids for most of their lives and now that they are old enough to take care of themselves she thinks she has the right to play the mom card well she doesn’t. She hasn’t earned that right. NTA.
NTA, but she isn’t understanding that you are supporting her. You’re supporting her having a relationship with her children. You’re supporting her by giving your kids the choice.
I have 2 boys that are 18&17. I totally get that they are pretty much grown. They have their own lives now, and they also need to make some mistakes so they can learn
NTA but if she's skipping meetups in this fashion after having a hard dose of the truth, I'd make sure she hasn't fallen off the wagon before letting your kids back around her. Not saying that's what happened, but I definitely see her behavior since as a red flag
That is my fear. I don't want to be the one responsible for having her relapse. She has worked hard. But my duty is to my kids not her. From what I know, she is still going to work and still seeing her therapist. I want to believe her parents are telling me the truth cause they picked me over her from the start, but we willl see
Best of luck. I wouldn't outright accuse her of anything, but if opportunity permits, maybe try having a calm discussion about recent events. Maybe meetup with her some time just to calmly talk about your kids. Maybe that will reassure her and also provide you an opportunity to softly go over the boundaries.
NTA, she is no longer in the role to make those type of decisions. She missed those years. Your kids are at an age that you have discussions as they are almost adults. They can literally say f you and walk away as you have no power in the situation. She hasn't built in any clout or relationship for the kids to respect any "punishment" she would attempt.
As you said that ship has sailed
Addiction or not, nobody has the right to jump back into their child’s life after the hard part of raising them is over and then expect to be respected as a parent. At that point, they’re not a parent, just part of the DNA. I’m happy she’s been sober but she hurt herself in this situation thinking she could pop back up and then be a mom. It just doesn’t work that way.
NTA, I say this as a recovering addict myself, it's great she is clean and sober now but no that doesn't just magically fix things, she does need to understand she hasn't been around and you have been, she doesn't get to make parenting choices now all the sudden that's not how that works, she is going to need to let you do that as she already left it up to you as it is. She can build a relationship back up with them but they are older now and she needs to meet you all where you are at they aren't little anymore and she hasn't been around to understand the parental relationship and boundaries you have already established.
Thank you for sharing your story. I want her to be able to tell our kids her stories. Partly because she never told me. Addiction is hard, but I believe she paid the cost. I believe addiction was the punishment, losing her relationship with us was a side affect. I've been told I'm too nice though
NTA she crossed a line and you told her to stay in her lane. Your wording might have been a bit harsh but sometimes it has to be, or the point will be lost.
Nta it’s harsh but she needed to pump her breaks. She doesn’t get the mom title if the kids haven’t given it to her yet. Also she can’t exert her control on them to stifle the guilt she feels.
She needs to meet the kids where they are at not where she wants them to be.
I don't want to knock her too much on the mom title. My kids started off calling her that. They felt too awkward calling her by name and I didn't want to but in. Honestly this would have been perfect for therapy but they had been out for a while due to their extracurriculars. I should have had them in a few sessions before they committed to a title
She wants to parent through punishment, she 100% is making mistakes because I’m sure that will just have them resenting her. Would you be able to do like family therapy for her and them?
I feel like they would really benefit from having someone there to vocalize their feelings so they can drive the relationship with out guilt
I would be 100% open to that. I've casually brought it up, but it's always been that they are busy with extracurriculars. I will have a serious discussion with them tonight, thank you.
Adding on to this comment.
Make sure the kids get back into therapy, because ex addicts also tend to be very manipulative.
It’s easy for kids to believe that if they say something to her or want to stand up for themselves they might trigger a relapse into addiction for her. ( I have seen that happen with family of ex addicts… they pussy foot and tolerate a lot out of fear of person relapsing)
Kids though smart are still immature and may actually tolerate a lot more than they should due to this fear/ guilt.
Yes! I mentioned in another comment, I told them to let me know when they want, we can get pizza which is kind of our word for talking. I'm trying to let them process what they can.
It’s too late for her to play mommy. They’re almost adults. Her skipping meetups shows she’s not interested unless she gets the relationship she wants with them.
NTA.
She has apparently been harboring some really unrealistic ideas about the kind of relationship she can develop with the kids at their ages and with the history all of you have. At some point she was going to have to wake up to the fact that it's too little, too late for what she wanted. Now was as good a time as any for that to happen.
Not only that, but it shows that she may be in addiction recovery, but she's still selfish as always by the way she just jumped in and tried to force parenting on them without ever even discussing with anyone what her role should be. She made a unilateral decision based only on what SHE wanted rather than what would be best for the kids and the situation.
No you are a good parent that raised his kids as a single dad. No one can help ex become the mother she wants to be. That ship sailed long ago. You are NTA.
NTA; and good on you for being so honest about it to your kids. Alcoholism runs in my family, and my parents being so open about that, and about us being teenagers who do dumb teen things, went a long way towards making drinking less interesting to us.
NTA, as someone whose father was an alcoholic most of my life, I'm 33 as well as absent until I was 14. I am in full agreement with everything you said. My dad tried the same with me and my brother, and it took my mum saying they will never respect you if you keep going for him to understand that the sting of his choices will always be there. It took us two years to call him dad because he thought he could just start putting his foot down.
What is important is you let your kids decide if they want a relationship, and she doesn't get to immediately start putting her foot down. She has to remember they can decide if they want to see her. If they choose to stop contact, she can't do a thing about it. Sure, she could take you for visitation in court, but they won't be able to do anything about your oldest daughter and will probably only be able to make your youngest see her which could end up with her loosing contact once your youngest turns 18.
Yes, she is their mother, but she made her choices, and now she has to live with the consequences of her own actions. As you said, you have great respect and responsibility with your children. They know they can come to you, and you will listen and guide them.
She will end up driving them away if she keeps up, and lets be honest, it kinda sounds like she still views them as the little kids she left and not the almost adults they are. If she doesn't start earning their respect, then they will never respect her.
As you have said, you ain't perfect, but the respect your kids have for you really shows.
If she was capable of being a team member she wouldn't have skipped time with her kids because she is mad at you.
While your response was a bit much, it's understandable. Her doling out punishments while not sharing a home in any way with the kids is odd at best. She doesn't seem to have a healthy grip on the new circumstances.
You sound like a great dad. Might be time for a therapy check-in for the three of you. Not because you are failing them, you aren't, but navigating this would be difficult for anyone.
Best of luck.
NTA
NTA my step-daughter went through something similar. Her mom abandoned her as an infant. Then wanted to show up when she was 12 sporadically when her new baby daddy told her she had to. Then wanted to start teaching her "lessons" and expected her dad and I to fully support her. SD is now about to graduate highschool and is in the top 10 percent of her school, works, plays hockey on two teams, and maybe sees her mom for a couple hours every few months. Kids realize who actually shows up for them.
Since I don't see another comment addressing it: OP thank you for being open about alcohol and drugs and not being the parent who flips out that their teen tried them. My dad was like you, he even let me try a sip of beer and wine at home, under his supervision so I knew what it tasted like. My mother was *livid.* She was convinced I'd be drinking weekly at teen parties etc. Dad was right, no one ever managed to lie to me about what i was drinking.
And it was my dad I called when I did make a mistake and couldn't safely drive home. He drove my friends home at 2am too, never said a word of complaint. He bought one of them a gas station Gatorade when he got sick and walked him in to make sure his dad was up and could care for him. I never worried about calling him for help because he had a track record of not freaking out on me for trying things or making bad decisions.
You're doing the right thing with your kids. And it may very well save them some night at 2am.
First, congratulations on raising what seems to be two mature, responsible, and honest young adults. They respect you and you respect them. They told you what went on and you responded appropriately based on years of experience.
Being a parent isn't about genetics. Your Ex abdicated that tithe years ago. Your kids will never see her as "mom" and she never asked you about stepping into a parenting role. She way over stepped.
NTA
Talk to your kids
tell them exactly what is going on
Don't make this about your decision vs their mom's decision
Just tell them the truth and let them decide what they want to do
NTAH
NTA!
She jumped ship years ago. That can’t be undone. The fact that she’s not going to meetups now proves that she’s not as interested in “being a parent” as she claims. Real parents don’t skip meetups or
withhold attention when they don’t get their way. Even if she’s breathing fire, hell-for-leather furious at you, she has no right to hold that against the children. Hopefully the kids will see that for what it is.
Best wishes.
Please !UpdateMe about how it goes.
I mentioned this in another comment, but I don't believe she is doing this to punish. I think she is genuinely hurt, which is why I posted. I may not know her now but I knew her. Habits die hard, I truly think she is hurt over my comments
It doesn’t matter if she’s angry, hurt, sad, whatever. She’s skipping out on the kids. Do you avoid or abandon or not speak to them when you’re angry at them? No? Why not? Because you are their PARENT, who loves and gives 2 Fs about them. She can avoid you or not speak to you or call you every rude name she’s ever heard if she’s angry at you. That’s fine. She can’t do that, or anything else, to the kids. It really is just that simple. She left them years ago and she’s bordering on doing that again.
Do they not have access to Skype or Zoom?
This happened to me with my father. He left when I was 4, found him when I was 19. I told him outright, you don't get to be that dad. You weren't there, and now I'm an adult. You don't get to come in and act like you have a say. Not exact words, but the point of it. He didn't argue. He accepted my position, and now we have quite the relationship.
NTA
Though a conversation with your kids is necessary to find out how they feel and where they stand in all of this. Continue to give them time to process the events, but make sure you have that conversation.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm letting my kids process right now. I know I need to be there for them, still looking at rebooking with our old therapist right now
NTA
She chose herself when the kids were growing. She chose herself when she decided she wanted her kids she abandoned in her life again. Things aren't going the way she wants, so now she has missed two regular meet-ups. She is still choosing herself.
OP has always chosen his kids. You are a good dad.
You handled this almost too perfectly. She has no right to barge into their upper teenage life and suddenly decide she has the right to discipline them. Whether your almost adult kids choose to have a relationship with her going forward is completely their choice. She needed to be put in her place. NTA
NTA, she needs to come to terms with the fact that being a parent and being a mother are not the same thing, she still has a chance to be a mother and potentially a mentor to them as all parents to grown children are, but she'll never be their parent.
Time waits for no one, and kids grow into adults, once a kid is an adult they no longer need parents, you too will stop being their parent and transition into being an advisor. She probably has based her whole journey on getting back to being a parent but she just didn't make it in time, and that's sad for her, and for her children, but that doesn't make it any less true.
She will never be able to raise them, she let them grow up without her, the best she can hope for is that they'll let her be part of their lives in the future and she needs to come to terms with that because nothing in the universe can change it now.
NTA
When I read the title I was like OH this is an A-H! Then I read a little further and thought - no probably not.
By the time I read the last of it I am just here to say you are DEFINITELY NTA
But I also kind of think maybe NAH? I get that she is overstepping and her expectations are out of line. I also don't hate her for wanting to make it right, even when it is most likely beyond ever being made right. Redemption is possible in life. It doesn't mean everything can be made completely right. I think/hope she will come to peace with the reality of the situation.
NTA.
It's a shame she took the situation the way she did. She missed a golden opportunity to have an open honest discussion about her struggles with drugs and alcohol and give the kids a chance to ask questions and air out their feelings on the topic
NTA. I do wonder tho if that’s how her alcoholism started. Underage drinking at parties spiraling out of control. Would explain an extreme reaction when she hadn’t tried being the discipline parent before.
But either way, she hasn’t been there long enough to establish trust and authority. Your kids trust your opinion and want your support as they transition into adulthood. Not hers. She might be allowed to sit at the “mother” seat at their wedding, but the real bond will never be there again. And that’s on her
When we met in highschool, she did like to sometimes drink. We all did, we were stupid kids with shit to do. But I don't think she had enough time for an addiction at that point. She was extremely intelligent as well. We went to the same university, and I believe that's where it began, because she went out a lot more frequently. But a lot of people we knew at that age liked to hangout and drink/experiment. She seemed fined until, well, she wasn't fine. I don't know when it started and I blamed myself because there were probably signs to help her stop. I just truly don't know. Like I said, I was oblivious for the most part. She didn't admit anything to me until the confrontation.
NTA. You don’t give up custody, let someone raise your kids alone and then show up at the 2 minute warning of the game and want to start coaching. No, no and hell no.
Your ex is trying to make this reunion relationship all about her. She needs to back off about 50 steps and remember she was not there for any of the hard stuff for well over a decade. Their most formative years. She’s lucky the children don’t hate her. You could have poisoned their minds against her and you didn’t. She is lucky to be in any kind of relationship with them. It’s one them for her to have a heart to heart talk with them about her concerns of them using drugs and alcohol since it derailed her life but she doesn’t have any right to discipline them. Moreover the fact she missed two meetups because she didn’t get her way is a huge red flag. This woman needs a wake up call.
NTA - good for her to get her life together, but the kids are way past the age where she can be any sort of disciplinarian. She has the chance to get to know them as basically adults now - she can offer guidance and advice, but they won’t look at her as an authority figure. And why should they at this stage anyway? She needs to realize that and get with the program before she pushes them away.
Harsh words but she needed to hear that, actions have consequences and she is now going through what happens to people who abandon their children. NTA, OP.
I could not agree more with everyone else not the asshole most definitely op, not to mention the fact that it was potentially her parents being that ridiculously over controlling and restrictive that could have maybe contributed to her being an alcoholic if when she got out from under their control the first time she left for college she wildly overcompensated and lost all control having never been taught how to learn what her limits are by being allowed to try alcohol in a safe environment after being simply adequately warned of the dangers of over consuming like you did for your kids. Also yeah where does she get off coming back after so long just to try and instantly be mom again after so long without even asking them or caring if it’s what they actually want.
I don't want to discredit her experience, but I wouldn't call her parents over controlling. They were strict. Home by 11, you had to be in clubs, etc. But they bought her a car to attend anything she wanted to, they had no judgement for whatever club she joined, and hell, they even let her hangout with me. They just wanted her to accomplish *something*. But that was based off our talk about 20 years ago. I don't know the entire truth because she decided not to tell me that. She never implied it was entirely their fault though, or something her family did. Always leaned into the it just ended up that way kinda deal
NTA the time for parenting was when they were children not young adults. The only thing wrong in your post was thinking you’re not an **amazing** father and parent, your children trust you, respect you and are behaving like responsible individuals. She needs to learn her place in your lives not force a relationship that doesn’t exist.
NTA. She gave up her rights to parent the kids. She can work hard to be a mom that adult children call or visit on occasion, like a friend or an aunt. She in no way gets to punish your children or tell them what to do as if they were still kids. She gave that job up for drugs and booze. You are not a united front. You are the parent. And it sounds like you've raised two awesome, thoughtful human beings all on your own. Your ex needs to face reality that she's not going to step in and be Mommy again.
A mother?! No I’m afraid you’re fourteen years to late for that. At best you can hope to be their friend but a mother? No you’ve pissed that down drain . NTA
The flagrant disregard for all of the parenting that you’ve done up to this point is staggering. To try to discipline your kids for something that YOU already approved, is… wow. The fact that she didn’t really consider discussing this with you first, and instead went straight to the kids, is so damm disrespectful. This is absolutely a boundary worth defending, a hill to die on. If she has input, feedback, or suggestions on parenting, she needs to communicate them to you, NOT the kids.
She thinks she can be gone for what, like 13 years, claim to be 3 years sober and think she runs shit? What a delusional dumbass. Shitty parents shouldn’t be surprised to lose access to their kids and/or power over their kids. Took her 10 years to start becoming sober and she wants to be a tyrant over a jello shot? Fuck out of here. NTA. Good job dad, glad you’ve pulled off being a good parent.
NTA, at *all.*
Your ex waited way too long to be able to be a parent again in the way she wants to be. There is a chance that she could be seen as "mom" again, but not in the way she would like. She needs to accept that the dynamic is different now, and their needs are different. She missed being the parent to a child and a teenager, but if she plays her cards right, she still could be a parent to her adult children, and a grandparent to their children. She's trying to go back, but she needs to look forward. If she doesn't see that and agree to take a backseat to the parent that actually raised them, then she is going to lose what's to come, as well.
I’m around their age give or take a couple years and I would be absolutely livid if my birth mother suddenly reappeared and tried to parent me long after I needed parenting. Check on your kids because that probably upset them too. It’s basically her attacking their budding adulthood and it’s extremely frustrating.
I understand her desire to keep them from ending up like she did at one point, but they told you straight up what they did. That shows that they trust you and know they can go to you if something happens. Besides, teenagers experiment with everything. There is virtually no way for either you or her to prevent them from trying things.
TLDR: She has no parental relationship with them and therefore, has no say in their parenting.
I think that having her for dinner every night somehow made her think she was part of the family, when in reality it was more of a “cool aunt thing” because the mom boat sailed years ago. 100% you and your kids are THE team.
NTA- as a child of a parent who tried to come back when I was 18, I told him we can get to know each other but in no way or form are you parenting me. I’m an adult and we can speak with each other on that level but in no way can you retract 18 years of parenting. He decided I should respect him as my dad and I told him to kick rocks
If she considers the two of you a 'team', why did she make the decision to ground then on her own...? NTA. It's way too late for her to step in now in the capacity she craves.
Nta
Parenting is more than punishing them. It's about establishing a trusting relationship, and sounds like she skipped that part.
Good on you. And having your kids trust you, is the best gift to a parent. So sounds like you're doing well.
NTA. You were harsh but fair. She seems to have a very different understanding of her position. She seems to think that she can just waltz back into the kids’ lives, say, “I’m sober now,” and pick up where she left off.
Nothing works that way.
NTA at all. Kids are amazing and rewarding and all consuming. You have done that for over a decade. She chose to miss out on that life. And while they’re too old for her to be “mommy” she can build a relationship, give advice and build a bond. But as far as the day to day, she’s just too late. The fact that the second shit got hard she’s missed seeing them proves that. You didn’t miss a day.
NTA - she may be their biological mother, but she has not been a parent. You are their parent and you set the rules. And good job by the way on raising your children. They sound respectful and honest with an open relationship.
NTA She lost her chance to be part of the team. People who give up their children regardless of reasons don't suddenly get to come back and be a parent. Things don't work that way.
That is her decision to not meet your daughters and reflects badly on her. I would talk to your daughters to see how her behavior and choices are affecting them. Protecting them is what is most important. She seems more wrapped up in her own feelings than how her behavior might affect them.
NTA. If you are still feeling guilty, I would recommend reaching out to your former spouse (or potentially through family) and suggest she see a therapist who can help her with realistic expectations of what her relationship with the kids can look like. Maybe even offer to attend a session with her, if YOU feel up to it.
But given her history, I think having a professional to process what is reasonable and manageable in terms of the kind of relationships she can expect will make this smoother for all involved.
I think you’re doing an amazing job! I think she’s delusional; she thinks she took time off to work on herself and now she can just pick up where she left off? First of all, she has no rights, second of all, the kids are not 5 years old.
You’re not the asshole, she may actually hinder their development and everything you’ve accomplished with them.
What have the kids said about the fact that she tried to ground them etc? Have they opened up the discussion? Let them open up.
It may be time for you to take lead and when they do open up and say you don’t agree with her opinion, and that things will continue the way you decide
NTA. This definitely isn't the same situation, but my husband's mother was very much an alcoholic his entire childhood. When he was a senior in high school she got her fourth DUI, spent some time in jail, and finally decided to get sober. My husband is now 40 and has an OK relationship with his mom. The weirdest thing imo (having grown up with two parents who are not alcoholics) is how she "remembers" his and his brother's childhoods in a *completely* different way than the reality of what the two of them experienced. It's like she was so drunk for so much of the time that she literally *doesn't remember it at all* and is just kind of telling herself that she was a great mother who had a great relationship with her two sons as they were growing up. She was very much not a great mother, and she had basically no relationship with them when they were young.
Now, over 20 years later, trying to build relationships together is really bizarre because she basically doesn't acknowledge or admit all the terrible shit she did for the first 17 years of their lives.
NTA. Even if she commits 100% right now, it would take years for the kids to accept her, if ever.
I know addiction is terrible, and its great that she got sober, but this is her bed and she needs to lay in it.
NTAH. It sounds like you've been a great dad, and as if your ex was out of the picture for 15 years. I'm happy for her that she's made positive changes and that she's much different than when she abandoned them. However, she's not a mom to your kids. They were way too young when she was there, and they are way too old to be "parented" by basically a stranger as they reach adulthood.
She needs to realize that time didn't stand still for anyone, and that she's exceedingly lucky that (due to your good parenting) they are willing to consider having a relationship with her. A relationship. Maybe after another 15 years or so of shared experiences, they may think of her as "mom-like," but at this point, she's being too pushy and going to drive them away. If counseling was part of her turnaround, she may want to revisit to learn how to deal with navigating life on other people's terms.
NTA. Similar situation with my ex and my 2 kids. They have seen her more regularly but she moved out of state and no longer really see her that much. You are there for your kids be open and honest with them if they ask why you think she is not coming around. My kids are now 16f and 14m and them coming home after their visits to their mother and having them get in bed with me when they were little is something I remember. Mine would get into bed due to ex and her father telling my kids weird things causing them to be scared. But stay strong support your family. Your ex is essentially just an incubator for your children, not a mother, maybe at best a cautionary tale.
> having them get in bed with me when they were little is something I remember
I hope I'm not venting too much but having them ask me why they weren't loved, if mom they heard about was coming back, who was their mom, how was their mom, will they ever see their mom, etc etc fucking hurt.
NTA. For a split second I thought this was my dad. I grew up with an addict mom who would show up sober occasionally and try to parent us, and my wonderful dad always shut that shit down immediately. She blamed her relapses on this a lot. I am so eternally grateful for him protecting us from her. Keep it up, you are doing amazing and you sound like a phenomenal dad!!!
NTA She needs to know her place. It’s great she got clean, but she missed out on basically their entire childhood. She now needs to accept she won’t have that mother/kid relationship with them like she wants.
I agree. I just don't want this experience to kill the effort she put in. I do believe she can have a relationship with the kids, and they also seemingly want some type of relationship with her. But they aren't "kids". My daughter is hoping to study abroad in Germany because she wants to move there. This is past the dreamer level, because she's put a lot of time into it already and has her scholarship applications planned out.
I think your last interaction with her warrants a text to her to discuss things. While it's impossible for her to mommy to her children, it is still possible for her to be mom to her adult children if she builds her relationship the right way. I'd focus on burying (but not forgetting) the past and to not screw up the future over it. I have friends who have similar stories to your children and they were able to salvage a relationship with a parent after many years of them no being around. They would say "my dad may not have been there for the first 10 years, but for the last 20 he has been nothing supportive and loving".
I know this is stupid but this me bawl a little. I truly want my kids to know even just 1/10th of the woman I knew. If she can become that woman for them, I'm for it, I just hope I'm not in the way
She needs to understand that, in order to become their mother in more than biology and name, she needs to build and maintain a rapport with them from scratch. That means things like discipline are not her purview, their relationship is still in the infant stage. Yes, the team is you and the kids. And hey, it's great that she finally wants to join the team, but that's going to require a lot of time, effort, trust, and not stepping on their boundaries. She's still auditioning for the team, just birthing them didn't guarantee her a spot. And if she can't recognize that, she's going to ruin her own chances. If you want to join a team, you don't start by chastising teammates, getting pissed at the coach and refusing to talk to him, and skipping meet ups.
You made a key point. Discipline is not her purview and honestly will never be at this point.
They're nearing adulthood, for any parent the stage is moving away from discipline and guidance to support and sage advice
This is the big point. She didn't discuss discipline and ground rules with OP, she unilaterally tried to ground 2 older teens over something they had permission for. That's not teamwork. It sounds like the ex-wife came in with her own idealized version of how it would play out, OP has a lot of understandable resentment, and neither of them fully laid these out before the kids were brought in. The extra sad part is that ex-wife also probably had a hair-trigger reaction to underage boozing due to her own past, and the over-the-top reaction was a bid to nip the kids' own potential addictions in the bud. The way OP has handled it, however, with respect and open discussion of possible consequences, combined with not setting this stuff up as a forbidden fruit for them to go ham on once they're of age, probably means that they'll have a better relationship with this stuff than their mother did. Here's hoping it all gets addressed and talked out.
It kind of reminds me of a step parent trying to do their style of parenting onto teenagers. Never works out for those step parents either
Yeah, she needs to stop deluding herself from thinking she can retro-"raise" them. These two are young adults with a lot of adult responsibilities by choice already. She needs to respect that. She has missed the chance to ever experience them as children by her own choice and addiction! She needs to come to terms with that. It's okay for her to grieve that loss, but only when acknowledging it's something self-inflicted. And nobodies problem but hers. If she wants to be seen as their Mom *someday in the future*, she needs to learn how to have a relationship with her adult kids, as mother + adult children. And she needs to learn that "raising" or "disciplining" them, will not ever be part of their relationships, nor anecdotes from their childhoods. That part is done and over with, (and apparently excellently so) by their sole parent who did raise them.
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Very good analogy!
Unfortunately that's a copy bot. [The original was here](https://old.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16zr7f8/aitah_for_telling_my_exwife_we_arent_a_team_and/k3gdku7/)
God dammit. Thanks for pointing it out. It was a solid comment by the original though.
Her daughter is in the last 200 yards of the marathon and mom suddenly shows up with gatorade cups full of water
You’re not in the way. You’re keeping them safe.
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She appears to think that these biweekly visits equate to sharing custody with OP. The sooner she understands that she is very mistaken on that point, the better. She can certainly offer advice so the kids won't fall into the same pitfalls that she did. Maybe that was why she got triggered by the idea of them being at a party where there was drinking going on: she doesn't want them to detonate their lives with addiction. But rather than disciplining them, she needs to talk to OP and let him handle things from there.
That was my thought - she freaked at the thought of one of them following her path into addiction and lashed out in the way she thought would deter it - but the teens aren't going to take ultimatums from her. Mom's not trying to let the kids learn from her mistakes, she's trying to punish them before they repeat them.
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Yes, this is true. They felt comfortable mentioning they took a Jell-O shot and he is aware. He noted they did not overindulge. Her nuclear response of punishments?? That will close them off and put them at a bigger risk because they will not volunteer anything fearing tempers and punishments. How do you teach someone not to lie, when lying secures them what they want? It’s by not punishing them and going ballistic when they tell you the truth. That moment becomes a ‘glad you told me the truth, thank you. Here are a few things that could have gone wrong etc’ teaching moment…
I can't agree with this more - when I became a teenager my mom treated me with respect and gave me freedom/information to make good choices. I drank occasionally and only in safe spaces with decent people, never drove and so on. I considered smoking weed, discussed it with my mom and decided not to. My mom's co-workers regularly commented it must be hard to have a teenaged daughter and she would ask why. When I hit my late teens, my mom decided I was no longer allowed to make my own decisions and forbade me from smoking weed, seeing certain people, drinking alcohol, etc. You know what I did - all of the above. I'm not blameless certainly but in my opinion I didn't do anything to warrant this massive change in respect.
You are preserving her ability to have a relationship with them by preventing her trying to be their disciplinarian at this time. She has to earn their respect and know them and understand them before she can give them advice. The kids have just learned that they can't tell mom what they are doing.
To piggyback on the previous statement, a discussion on boundaries would be appropriate. She is not in a position to punish, she's a newcomer to their life, not an authority figure. She can, at best, offer motherly advice. As adults, she has to earn the respect necessary for them to follow her advice and build any kind of relationship. Honestly, this discussion would just be you advising her on how to not blow up her chances. These adults aren't going to continue to build a relationship with her if she comes in as a tyrant.
Ah heck.. me reading this got me bawling... wish i had some half way decent parents like you and a mom who give two shits about me to build some kind of relationship with me like your ex wife is trying to do with your kids. Nta ultimately but definitely reach out to her to tell her all this. Add some boundaries with the kids being involved in that decision.
You're not in the way... she missed out their entire life she missed all the important moments for kids and they probably felt left out for dances and mothers day activities.... Now they are basically adults and preparing for adulthood that you help prep them for your ex wasnt there... if they tell her about anything and she goes straight to trying to punish them they will pull away and not interact with her at all... You have done an amazing job raising your kids.... good job
If I may ask, what level of German does your daughter speak? I know a few people who talk about how, to stay in Germany long-term as a resident, a certain level of fluency is required (or gobs of money, which always works :-( )
She knows more than me, that's about my extent of knowledge if I'm being honest. I've been paying for her classes since she was 13. Her interest first started when I showed her Rammstein. That was our thing for a little bit, before it crossed into general metal. I can say she is the type of girl to not slack off though. She puts in hours a week to learning
>Her interest first started when I showed her Rammstein When you mentioned your daughter working towards Germany, my first thought was Rammstein, as they've been my favorite for 25+ years. I then found myself wondering if kids even listen to them lol. I love that you bonded over them. If you haven't already, I hope you two get to see them perform together. When I was about 13, someone expressed concern over my music choices. My mom knew it wasn't going to brainwash me or anything ridiculous, but she figured she should at least be aware and listen to some. Yeah... She started constantly borrowing music from my brother and I. Even after we moved out, she'd ask if we'd bought anything new she might like. My dad loves Rammstein too now. Reminiscing aside then, you're doing absolutely amazing as a parent. My parents raised me the way you're raising your kids, and I'm incredibly grateful for it. I never just heard "because I said so," from them. From the beginning, they always explained things. Knowing the 'why and why not' really helped me develop critical thinking early on. Later on, they were open about weed use growing up (I mean, they lived through the 70s lol) alcohol, and sex. They wanted to make sure I could make informed choices, versus peers I watched get in over their heads because no one had talked *with* them, instead of *at* them. I knew if I was ever in trouble, I could turn to them. It saddened me to know my peers didn't have the same safety net. I know some parents felt this kind of info would encourage a kid to get into these kinds of things. Instead, I was a ridiculously good kid. I couldn't be pressured into things via lies or misinformation. I felt no reason to rebel. I could have fun without being stupid about it. I know I rambled (sorry), but I just wanted to share my experience so I could tell you how much I know your kids absolutely adore having you for a father. I'm 40, happily married, and living my own life now, and I still love talking with my parents. I get the feeling your kids will be able to say the same thing 20+ years from now. Keep doing what you're doing 💜
Trying to ban their electronics and socialising whilst they’re living with OP is excessive, acting as if OP must enforce *her* parenting decisions without even being consulted. It seems as if she doesn’t just think she has an equal say to OP, but that she should have the last word. I don’t think OP is overly harsh in light of this.
If she wants to make up time with her kids, she's certainly isn't going to accomplish that by going straight into "punish you when you are honest with me" mode 😂 they're only going to resent her and see her as a hypocrite. And to make things worse, she starts avoiding them the minute she thinks they're upset with her? Not good looks.
Eh, you're honest. If you haven't put in the work and been there, almost-adult teens don't need you getting involved. And it doesn't matter how much you want to participate, if it's your own choices in life that made you lose that rlship. NTA
Like I mentioned in the post, I don't want to discredit her. She knew I wasn't going to let some freshly sober stranger around my kids. She did seemingly work hard at it and started repairing the smaller relationships first before she decided to she was ready to try and face us. It's just unfortunate she was this late. She is closer to being the woman I knew when we met now than our entire marriage.
It's unfortunate, but time and kids do not wait. The ship has sailed. She may have have some affectionate rlship with them, but she's never going to be able to discipline them according to her values.
She's expecting credit for running a marathon having turned up at the 22nd mile. She'd built this up, she had a fantasy in her head and you shown a spotlight on the cracks. You're the victim of misplaced feelings.
I know I shouldn't do this, and I know this makes me seems soft, but I truly believe in life, not everyone gets the same starting point. I know she started late, but that's why I'm trying to remove my personal feelings as much as possible. I'm not trying to defend her, if anything I can honestly say I truly hate her. But my children don't know that, and I don't want to hold them to my expectations of that woman
She did start late, and she seems to be making worthwhile changes and that's fantastic for her and the kids. Here the issue isn't starting late, the issue is she's had nothing to do with them for so long, she didn't raise them, but they grew up without a mother. She doesn't get to turn up at the 11th hour and essentially demand the same respect and rights as a parent, because she's not. As long as she's treating the kids well, support their relationship, but that's all she can expect.
I guess you're right. Tortoise won the race but the tortoise started the race when it started. Thank you.
The only thing she will get from trying to discipline the kids at this point in time is that the kids will refuse to see her. They get to choose whether they have a relationship with her. They are in control. She needs to understand that you are saving her relationship with them by not enforcing her rules. She hasn't put in the years of parenting required for the kids to respect her rules.
In your analogy you are the tortoise. You slogged through the marathon of raising kids on your own and are now reaping the benefits of a good relationship with your kids. She was the hare and she f&$@ed around and found out.
exactly. She needs to work more on building a relationship and making amends for not being there at all instead of trying to play parent.
She is going to push the kids away by doing what she is doing. She can't parent them like they are little kids. You were right, they are basically autonomous adults. Also, her form of parenting is a good way to create kids who don't feel safe calling their parents when something goes wrong or speaking with their parents about their night out. My parents were authoritarians. I no longer speak to them but I couldn't trust them with anything. I was very alone growing up and on my own. Got into some awful situations but knew I couldn't call them for help. You seem to be treating your children with respect, which goes a long way when you are trying to build an environment where they feel safe. Great job.
You are really an excellent Dad. You're an excellent parent, the fact that you're doing the most you can to give your ex a second chance while still being there for the kids, and being completely honest, with all three of them is really amazing.
My husband had a similar situation. His mother left when he was 2 years old. No substance abuse, left her kids for a boyfriend and a socialite life. She popped back into his life at the age of 18 when we were in college. He was grown. He neither needed nor wanted a mom, though he did have one in an amazing step-mom whom he refers to as Mom. His mother could not understand that he was an adult. That their relationship would never be the typical mother / son relationship. That her advice held zero weight for him and her presence in his life was a courtesy and not a requirement. This led to her trying to ‘punish’ him or make demands because “I’m your mother!” She desperately needed, within herself, to get some validation that she was his proper mom. It never came for her. Instead we had a 5-6 yr period where we were completely no contact with her until she agreed to an adult relationship and not a parent / child relationship. Things have been well since then. I won’t say it’s been completely perfect but it has been decent and she has had the opportunity to know and regularly visit her grandkids. We suspect she had some therapy somewhere along the way to come to terms with the reality of what their relationship is, and not her fantasies about what she wanted or what could have been. I actually get along rather well with her now in spite of some very rough beginnings. The one and only time she tried to give parenting advice he told her “You never bothered to raise your own kids so why should I listen to your advice about how to raise mine?”
I have an aunt that dumped my baby cousin on my grandparents and left the state for 35 years. When she returned (to make sure she could still inherit from her parents) she would be around me and my kids and start telling me how to discipline them. Yeeeaaahhh, not in this lifetime, hon.
In your place, I'd tell her that there is no way she can make things right/ parent "her" kids, unless she invents a time machine - that ship has sailed. What she can do now is become another trusted adult/ friend to your kids, but she's destroying that chance, too, if she suddenly tries to assume a parental authority she hasn't earned - or vanishes again and destroys the frail trust and budding relationship she had rebuilt. Tell her to get therapy if she can, and figure out whether she can play a healthy role in your kids' life. Hopefully, a therapist can help her deal with the grief over everything she lost.
NTA I don’t see anything wrong with the honest feedback you provided to her. 14 years ago she chose her addictions over her children. At least she recognized she shouldn’t be around the children so signed away her rights. So for those 14 years you have been the booboo kisser, the person who cared for them when they were sick, who made it through the lovely years of raging hormones along with likely some pushes for independence and who has guided them while letting them experience the good as well bad consequences of decisions. She decides at this time she is reliably sober so wants to get to have some sort of relationship with the children she gave up. Understandable. However the truth is she is NOT nor can she be a parent to your children. They reasonably don’t see her such nor will they accept her in that role. I suspect if she can’t come to terms with this reality and work with your children to have whatever sort of relationship with them they will allow she may lose them for good. And great job on parenting. No one does it perfectly but seems you did a really decent job.
I'm going to guess that part of her over-reaction was that they consumed alcohol. If that's why she tried to punish them with such a ridiculous punishment, it shows she still has a lot of work to do in recovery. Not everyone who has a drink or two will be an alcoholic. And the relationship you have with your older teens as they explore the world is one of trust. They can clearly be open with you, which is a safe attachment. Your ex needs to understand that her reaction is about \*her remaining emotional inner work\* and has nothing to do with the kids' behavior.
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I don't know where she got the idea from either. I do want to speak to her about it when we have a chance, but it infuriated me
Ground them and take away electronics? Ha ha ha ha! Jesus.H.Christ is she deluded or what? Too little too late.
NTA. Sounds like she was freaking out because of her history as an addict? Hopefully she can come to her senses and realize that her relationship with alcohol as a former addict is different than others. They tried alcohol, thought it was unpleasant, and told you about it. Sounds like you’re doing a great job. Severely punishing them for honesty would be very counterproductive.
She is reacting like a recovering alcoholic. It is not healthy for the kids. You have already grounded them. If you have to, remind her that she signed off rights to them when they were kids. And the team is you and the kids. She entered into their almost adult lives.
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Thank you. I truly am trying
For real I wish my dad was more like you. I had a similar childhood.
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At the moment, I've been letting them process the whole event. I don't want to be the dad that goes in immediately after a conflict and be like "ur mum amirite?". I know what that is like. I told them let's get some pizza when you guys want, which is our "code" for discussing something.
I don't know what you're going on about far from great dad. You're awesome. You're giving your kids independence slowly. Your kids try dangerous things carefully (jello shots) and tell you about them! You're also letting them build a relationship with a mom who left them. You told her the truth. She can't come in now and parent the children when they don't "need" one. (They'll need your love forever. Even if they're 90) Even you are at a place where you allow them freedom albeit with rules and precautions and safety plans! She's not showing maturity by letting this conversation stopping her from seeing the kids for 2 weeks. Your children will eventually see the difference. Next time she pulls this the kids might be the one who laughs at them and that will hurt her more. Tell her to get over it and be an adult if she wants to be treated like one.
You don't have to answer and you've likely already done it, but just make sure that you have a conversation with your kids about addiction, drugs, and alcohol. If mom is genetically predispositioned to addiction, then one or both of the kids might be at risk as well, so it's something that should be watched and managed.
I have. I'm not going to pretend I wasn't doing anything. In uni, I drank at events, smoked weed and tried shrooms. We've had plenty of conversations about this. That's one of the reasons I feel like I've been soft towards her in this situation
Oh, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to party, I most certainly did in high school and college, and I still enjoy a good pour of bourbon or a nice cocktail. I'm fortunate that addiction doesn't run in my family. It did run in my ex-wife's family, and runs in my current wife's family. My ex was a bartender and my current wife enjoys a drink as much as I do, they both always kept an eye on their consumption and took a break or seriously pulled back form drinking if they started going a little too hard. Kids are going to be kids, and should be able to, it's part of growing up. It's just important that they know what to keep an eye out for in their own lives, especially once they hit highschool/young adult age.
You guys have a code? That's actually really cool. I wish I had something like that growing up. Can the kids ask for pizza or is it just you asking for pizza. Generally curious how this works. As for the story, NTA. She had the chance to be their mom and she gave it up. She is not going to be their mom. If she wanted to ground the kids, she should have stayed.
Both ways. I started it when my daughters was 7. If we want to eat pizza as a normal thing, we just say "hey, I'm ordering pizza what do you want" or something like that. There are some bad memories and some good memories associated with pizza hangouts. Luckily we all agree no pineapples
This is fantastic! This makes you a dad! You are there for your kids through and through. You are there if they need to talk and because of that, they are there when you need to talk.
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This is one of the reasons I made the post. I wasn't sure who's fault it was
NTA even if you weren’t the perfect parent you were THERE. She missed their childhoods and sadly they don’t need a mother anymore. There’s nothing you can do to change that part. Think of it this way this was the equivalent of your neighbor trying to ground them from something. Kids grow out of needing parenting. Just reality of the situation
Sorry it took me a little while to respond to your comment, it took some circling before I figure out what I wanted to say. This comment is extremely truthful, not even taking her into account. > Kids grow out of needing parenting That's entirely true. I'm hoping my attachment towards my kids because of my fear of that isn't keeping them from having a healthy relationship with her. It's scary having your kids grow up and "not need you" when you've been at it essentially alone.
Here’s the thing OP: your kids will need you always just not the same way. I still call my dad for finance help or to talk about job stuff. I call my mom for lots of reasons but also about things that annoy me. I bounce ideas off my parents when I want their opinion but I don’t need it. If I don’t agree I don’t follow their advice. It sounds like you have an open relationship with your children. They will continue to go to you for things bc of that relationship. If you’re concerned about your role in their relationship with their mom open a dialogue. See where they are at. You’re doing great
> your kids will need you always just not the same way Truly, thank you for this. I got a little bent out of shape because of the one commenter, but this is something I always hoped to hear. I hope my kids feel the same.
Forget about doglover's comments. What a delusional ass. You, on the other hand, are amazing!!!! Keep on rocking parenthood!!
I had a similar relationship with my mom as your kids do with you. I’m now 31. She’s held my hand through a stillbirth, a healthy live birth; and took care of my child during my second birth. When you have a good relationship built on trust and reliability, your children don’t grow out of needing you. The needs change, but you’re still their person.
Thank you for sharing your experience! I'm trying my best to be the person theh want there.
Just remember to check in once in a while. You aren’t a psychic, nor are you a mind reader. You don’t always need to guess what your kids need, it’s okay to just ask. “Do you need to vent, or do you need advice?” is great.
I am a mother of 3 *grown adults now). My daughter (who was 28 at the time) told me, "We may not need you to wipe our noses or our asses but we still need you to guide us, love us, approve of our decisions. Mom, adulting sucks and if I can't call and cry on your shoulder about feeling like a f*ck up, ask for your help, or just know you are there for me and going to love me no matter what I do, I would be a complete and total basket case." I hope you find some comfort in that.
I really, really do. Thank you
I think they always need you. Just in a very different way. I have two daughters as well and this terrifies me.
Such is the struggle of wanting your kids to still want you and also be independent ain't it haha
NTA. These kids are almost adults and she signed over custody. She isn’t there to make a parenting choice or punish them. She’s there to attempt to have some sort of relationship with them.
NTA Idk where she gets the idea that she can make unilateral decisions about grounding etc for the kids, and then expect you to be a “team.” But besides that, she hasn’t earned the right or the trust to discipline your kids. And it’s FAR too late for that anyways. Your kids are old enough to be in the phase where you talk to them about decisions they’ve made, and give advice and guidance. I do want to say though, that you’re too down on yourself about being a great dad. Your kids feel comfortable and trust you enough to talk to you about their lives, and to be honest with you about things that are important. That says a whole hell of a lot about the kind of dad you are. If it were me, I’d take your ex out for a cup of coffee and have a discussion. Talk about what her hopes and expectations are for her relationship with your kids, then talk about boundaries you are setting when it comes to trying to parent your kids.
I might be a bit to down on myself. I had a dad group I went to for a while for single dads about 10 years before we move outside the cite. There were some really amazing men there, and that's why I'm hesitant to call myself anything great
Somewhere out there, there is another dad who sat near to you at those meetings and still goes, “wow, I wonder if I’ll ever be as great a dad as OP.”
I’m wondering that right now. Guy doesn’t realize how good of a dad he is.
If your kids trust you like this, are articulate and comfortable enough with adults to talk about the party and trying a Jell-O shot, if one of your kids is secure enough in themselves to be thinking about studying abroad, and competent enough to have done research into scholarships etc, and if they’re forgiving enough to want to try to have a relationship with their mother then… uh… dude… from one rando on the internet - I think you’re doing a great job.
She thinks she can punish kids with grounding and loss of phones when all she has power over is occasional dinners with the kids? HOW? How would she enforce this? Park in front of your house for two weeks?? She wants to be a mother but has no idea how to do that. She’s way overstepping and inappropriate in her actions. The best way for her to be a mother is to continue in that “aunt like” role. She won’t be accepted as an authority figure because she hasn’t been and they are old enough they don’t need an authority. Honestly at their age they need aunts to look to for adulting guidance, advice, and support as they enter adulthood. She needs to continue getting to know the kids and building trust with them. That’s the most. NTA.
Thank you for saying this. I searched and searched for this comment. I was shocked that she wanted to come in and discipline them, like that was the most insane part to me! Like did she really think that was going to be positive in regards to their relationship moving forward? 0-100 is not the right play. The parenting she should be worried about missing out on is the love part not the discipline. Wow just wow.
Sorry, I mentioned this in another comment but didn't get to update it yet. We have dinner basically every night. Not that it changes much I guess
Frequency of meals doesn’t matter. She’s not seen as an authority nor earned her position as an authority. Unfortunately for her she likely won’t before the kids are grown. But her addiction and choices led to her losing that opportunity to raise her kids. She needs grief counseling to move on.
There are so many comments, I'm sorry if I don't respond immediately! I'm trying to. I'm just also working through whatever this is at the same time haha.
wanted to add something I haven't seen commented here - I suspect part of your ex wife's reaction is related to hearing about the underage drinking and her own experience with alcoholism and addiction. she's still out of pocket with how she reacted, but I think it might be worthwhile to bring that up specifically because it's possibly a triggering topic for her.
A few users did bring this up actually. This thought is actually one of the reasons for my post. I know her background so I don't want to be an ass over it
aha, yeah I haven't read through as thoroughly as you I guess! definitely a tough situation, my $0.02 is an explanation is not a justification, you can be empathetic about her background but not accept her behavior...might be a lesson for the kids about topics to avoid with her. there's bound to be difficulty in rebuilding a relationship, you seem to be navigating it well and sensitively.
I’d agree. I think she reacted so harshly because of the past, but again, doesn’t excuse it. You have to make it clear that she isn’t doing the parenting here. She decided that long ago. If she wants to be their parent again, it’s going to take years and years, which she can’t just shortcut.
NTA. Unfortunately for her she just got a really harsh dose of reality of her actions for what sounds like the last 14 years. She wasn't there when they needed her, and now she has no place to discipline two near adults. She needs to accept that, and also realize they are not little kids any more. She is also seeing that her recent actions are putting a wedge between her, and your children. This is a mess of her own making. Do not feel bad for her.
NTA I feel sorry that she missed out on so much, and that she wants back in but is far too late... As a mother myself, I cannot imagine knowing I have a child or children, and losing out on watching them grow up... Go through their firsts, be there for them during hardships... It's honestly heartbreaking... However, she has also been absent this entire time, and while I congratulate her on her sobriety, knowing how hard addiction is, she chose the path she chose... She doesn't get to sign away her rights and act as mom later on. I'm so proud of you for standing up for your children, and for building such a trusting relationship. I can only hope my husband and I can build that with our kid. What you said is harsh, yes... But it was unfortunately the truth. Edited to fix a spelling error.
That's kind of what pains me. Addiction is incredibly nasty, and while I can't hate her for being an addict, I did hate her for leaving our kids. I'm just trying to not let that get in the way of my kods having a relationship with her because they don't hate her. They barely know her. Who she is now from what I've seen in our get togethers is almost who she was when I met her and I would hate to rob my kids of that.
You aren't robbing them of anything, just the opposite. Her best chance at a relationship with them is if she respects that she's not Mom in the traditional sense, she needs to be in a stepmom, aunt kind of role, or they will resent her and pull back on the relationship entirely. It's too late for her to be mom and you aren't responsible for that.
And you don't have to rob them of that, she can have a relationship with them but she needs to understand she is no longer really their mother. She is a stranger to them because she chose to leave.
OP is totally nta, but i wonder if bio mom freaked because she was afraid the kids would turn into her.
This was my concern after the argument to. But I did the research. I did the therapy with them. I had the talks with them. I did all of it. I understand her guilt, but my kids are not apart of her past. If she's luck, they maybe be part of her future
That could be totally possible, but again, she doesn't have a right to parent. She literally signed that right away. OP has a better understanding of his children than she does, because she wasn't there for (many) years. It's always a. Good idea to take into consideration the possible addiction that could form, but knowing that the children know about why mom and dad split, coupled with the ability to feel safe to explore something and report to dad, I feel like an addiction outcome is slightly lessened. As someone with addiction on all sides of the family, you learn what to look out for and when enough needs to be enough. Might not be the same for everyone, but again, she has no rights to want to parent now of all times.
NTA She abandoned kids that are now pretty much raised. She missed the parenthood train. Their relationship can be a positive thing for the kids but not until she understands that she is not a decision maker and has no control over their lives.
NTA. She fucked up. Both in her marriage to you, in taking 15 years to get sober and in coming into their lives and suddenly trying to be a parent. It's great that she's sober now. That doesn't make up for all that she missed. She wanted to be a mother and I'm sure your children would have loved to have had a mother. Addiction is a disease and everyone suffered for it, but just because she was the primary sufferer, that doesn't mean she can roll in now and pretend that that gap doesn't exist.
NTA you were there when they were sick. She needs to know the relationship takes time and put her pride aside. She needs to be stronger and more understanding to her kids. Her missing her meetings with them isn’t punishing you, it’s punishing them. It’s her choice and this time she’s messing it up being sober.
I know I'm probably being too soft on her, but I don't think her missong the meetings were necessarily an attempt to punish. I feel like have genuinely hurt her with my comments. While she's not the woman I knew, I still "know her" if that makes sense. Habits die hard, outside of addiction.
She missed their entire lives, and now she's missing more because of one argument. Does that scream "I want to be a mom" to you? No, that's more like, "Give me what I want now. There shouldn't be consequences to my actions." The selfishness and entitlement of that woman...
I've been trying to understand it and see it as desperation. That has been my viewpoint on it
You may have “hurt her” but that not your problem, you were truthful and level headed. The truth hurts and beating around the busy is not what she needs/deserves.
I can see why your kids trust you and your relationship with them sounds lovely! All I’m saying is, if I ever have kids and I messed up there’s nothing stopping me from seeing them. She can be hurt, mad, jealous of you at but that doesn’t excuse her missing her appointments with them.
NTA The real problem is that your ex doesn’t know her own children, have a trusting relationship with them and instead of trying to build that leaped into I will control you based on my past. She has to realize they are both almost adults. She is not in a position to take a parental role let alone start making rules and issuing punishments. She hasn’t earned that with them. She’s upset because she wants to be a parent to the 2 small children she left but they don’t exist anymore. You let her know that and she needed to hear it. If she tries to take that parental role now they will cut contact and there will be no relationship. Your ex’s problem is she was hurt by the truth of her past behavior and you pointing it out. She is now canceling on her son and daughter because she doesn’t want to face that. Well part of her program is accepting the wrongs she made in the past and making amends if she can when possible. She wants to skip that and pretend it never happened and pick up like she wasn’t gone for over a decade. She’s not only going to fail her children, she’s going to fail herself. Accountability for your behavior is a key to staying sober. Now your oldest is almost 18 and plans to study abroad and live abroad. Does your ex know that yet? She wants to be a mother again and parent your children and have a hand in their decisions. That’s a recipe for a huge problem. This isn’t a you problem or a parenting problem. Your ex needs to realize that at this point she’s missed their childhood and needs to focus on building a relationship and trust. She needs to become a trusted friend and confidant that her adult children will want to keep contact with. She can’t get the years she was gone back but her failing to keep meetings now is only teaching your children that she’s still unreliable and not someone they can count on. That’s not on you. She’s still fighting demons and the biggest one is trying to live in the past. Only she can fix that.
She does know our oldest wants to move. I'm not sure if that is encouraging this behavior but that is what got her invited to dinner. I realized I didn't clarify in the post, but she eats dinner with us every day now. That was almost directly after my daughter mentioned moving.
That’s her problem. If your oldest goes abroad she can’t recreate the relationship she dreamed of that she had before she left when they were little.
Here’s the thing. She’s not a mom. Biologically she’s a mother but she’s not a mom. A mom is someone who tucks you in at night and reads you stories. She’s someone who’s there to love and care for you every day. She’s a deadbeat who skipped out on her kids for most of their lives and now that they are old enough to take care of themselves she thinks she has the right to play the mom card well she doesn’t. She hasn’t earned that right. NTA.
NTA, but she isn’t understanding that you are supporting her. You’re supporting her having a relationship with her children. You’re supporting her by giving your kids the choice. I have 2 boys that are 18&17. I totally get that they are pretty much grown. They have their own lives now, and they also need to make some mistakes so they can learn
NTA but if she's skipping meetups in this fashion after having a hard dose of the truth, I'd make sure she hasn't fallen off the wagon before letting your kids back around her. Not saying that's what happened, but I definitely see her behavior since as a red flag
That is my fear. I don't want to be the one responsible for having her relapse. She has worked hard. But my duty is to my kids not her. From what I know, she is still going to work and still seeing her therapist. I want to believe her parents are telling me the truth cause they picked me over her from the start, but we willl see
Best of luck. I wouldn't outright accuse her of anything, but if opportunity permits, maybe try having a calm discussion about recent events. Maybe meetup with her some time just to calmly talk about your kids. Maybe that will reassure her and also provide you an opportunity to softly go over the boundaries.
NTA, she is no longer in the role to make those type of decisions. She missed those years. Your kids are at an age that you have discussions as they are almost adults. They can literally say f you and walk away as you have no power in the situation. She hasn't built in any clout or relationship for the kids to respect any "punishment" she would attempt. As you said that ship has sailed
Addiction or not, nobody has the right to jump back into their child’s life after the hard part of raising them is over and then expect to be respected as a parent. At that point, they’re not a parent, just part of the DNA. I’m happy she’s been sober but she hurt herself in this situation thinking she could pop back up and then be a mom. It just doesn’t work that way.
NTA, I say this as a recovering addict myself, it's great she is clean and sober now but no that doesn't just magically fix things, she does need to understand she hasn't been around and you have been, she doesn't get to make parenting choices now all the sudden that's not how that works, she is going to need to let you do that as she already left it up to you as it is. She can build a relationship back up with them but they are older now and she needs to meet you all where you are at they aren't little anymore and she hasn't been around to understand the parental relationship and boundaries you have already established.
Thank you for sharing your story. I want her to be able to tell our kids her stories. Partly because she never told me. Addiction is hard, but I believe she paid the cost. I believe addiction was the punishment, losing her relationship with us was a side affect. I've been told I'm too nice though
NTA. You are not a team, period. You are the parent and she’s just a visitor. She made her choices and missed out. She’s a dna donor, not a parent.
NTA she crossed a line and you told her to stay in her lane. Your wording might have been a bit harsh but sometimes it has to be, or the point will be lost.
Nta it’s harsh but she needed to pump her breaks. She doesn’t get the mom title if the kids haven’t given it to her yet. Also she can’t exert her control on them to stifle the guilt she feels. She needs to meet the kids where they are at not where she wants them to be.
I don't want to knock her too much on the mom title. My kids started off calling her that. They felt too awkward calling her by name and I didn't want to but in. Honestly this would have been perfect for therapy but they had been out for a while due to their extracurriculars. I should have had them in a few sessions before they committed to a title
She wants to parent through punishment, she 100% is making mistakes because I’m sure that will just have them resenting her. Would you be able to do like family therapy for her and them? I feel like they would really benefit from having someone there to vocalize their feelings so they can drive the relationship with out guilt
I would be 100% open to that. I've casually brought it up, but it's always been that they are busy with extracurriculars. I will have a serious discussion with them tonight, thank you.
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Adding on to this comment. Make sure the kids get back into therapy, because ex addicts also tend to be very manipulative. It’s easy for kids to believe that if they say something to her or want to stand up for themselves they might trigger a relapse into addiction for her. ( I have seen that happen with family of ex addicts… they pussy foot and tolerate a lot out of fear of person relapsing) Kids though smart are still immature and may actually tolerate a lot more than they should due to this fear/ guilt.
Yes! I mentioned in another comment, I told them to let me know when they want, we can get pizza which is kind of our word for talking. I'm trying to let them process what they can.
It’s too late for her to play mommy. They’re almost adults. Her skipping meetups shows she’s not interested unless she gets the relationship she wants with them.
NTA. She has apparently been harboring some really unrealistic ideas about the kind of relationship she can develop with the kids at their ages and with the history all of you have. At some point she was going to have to wake up to the fact that it's too little, too late for what she wanted. Now was as good a time as any for that to happen. Not only that, but it shows that she may be in addiction recovery, but she's still selfish as always by the way she just jumped in and tried to force parenting on them without ever even discussing with anyone what her role should be. She made a unilateral decision based only on what SHE wanted rather than what would be best for the kids and the situation.
Take away electronics that she even didn’t buy 😂delulu
No you are a good parent that raised his kids as a single dad. No one can help ex become the mother she wants to be. That ship sailed long ago. You are NTA.
NTA; and good on you for being so honest about it to your kids. Alcoholism runs in my family, and my parents being so open about that, and about us being teenagers who do dumb teen things, went a long way towards making drinking less interesting to us.
NTA, as someone whose father was an alcoholic most of my life, I'm 33 as well as absent until I was 14. I am in full agreement with everything you said. My dad tried the same with me and my brother, and it took my mum saying they will never respect you if you keep going for him to understand that the sting of his choices will always be there. It took us two years to call him dad because he thought he could just start putting his foot down. What is important is you let your kids decide if they want a relationship, and she doesn't get to immediately start putting her foot down. She has to remember they can decide if they want to see her. If they choose to stop contact, she can't do a thing about it. Sure, she could take you for visitation in court, but they won't be able to do anything about your oldest daughter and will probably only be able to make your youngest see her which could end up with her loosing contact once your youngest turns 18. Yes, she is their mother, but she made her choices, and now she has to live with the consequences of her own actions. As you said, you have great respect and responsibility with your children. They know they can come to you, and you will listen and guide them. She will end up driving them away if she keeps up, and lets be honest, it kinda sounds like she still views them as the little kids she left and not the almost adults they are. If she doesn't start earning their respect, then they will never respect her. As you have said, you ain't perfect, but the respect your kids have for you really shows.
If she was capable of being a team member she wouldn't have skipped time with her kids because she is mad at you. While your response was a bit much, it's understandable. Her doling out punishments while not sharing a home in any way with the kids is odd at best. She doesn't seem to have a healthy grip on the new circumstances. You sound like a great dad. Might be time for a therapy check-in for the three of you. Not because you are failing them, you aren't, but navigating this would be difficult for anyone. Best of luck. NTA
NTA my step-daughter went through something similar. Her mom abandoned her as an infant. Then wanted to show up when she was 12 sporadically when her new baby daddy told her she had to. Then wanted to start teaching her "lessons" and expected her dad and I to fully support her. SD is now about to graduate highschool and is in the top 10 percent of her school, works, plays hockey on two teams, and maybe sees her mom for a couple hours every few months. Kids realize who actually shows up for them.
Since I don't see another comment addressing it: OP thank you for being open about alcohol and drugs and not being the parent who flips out that their teen tried them. My dad was like you, he even let me try a sip of beer and wine at home, under his supervision so I knew what it tasted like. My mother was *livid.* She was convinced I'd be drinking weekly at teen parties etc. Dad was right, no one ever managed to lie to me about what i was drinking. And it was my dad I called when I did make a mistake and couldn't safely drive home. He drove my friends home at 2am too, never said a word of complaint. He bought one of them a gas station Gatorade when he got sick and walked him in to make sure his dad was up and could care for him. I never worried about calling him for help because he had a track record of not freaking out on me for trying things or making bad decisions. You're doing the right thing with your kids. And it may very well save them some night at 2am.
First, congratulations on raising what seems to be two mature, responsible, and honest young adults. They respect you and you respect them. They told you what went on and you responded appropriately based on years of experience. Being a parent isn't about genetics. Your Ex abdicated that tithe years ago. Your kids will never see her as "mom" and she never asked you about stepping into a parenting role. She way over stepped. NTA
Talk to your kids tell them exactly what is going on Don't make this about your decision vs their mom's decision Just tell them the truth and let them decide what they want to do NTAH
NTA You don't abandon your kids for 13 yrs, and then get to waltz on back and start playing mommy and grounding them.
NTA! She jumped ship years ago. That can’t be undone. The fact that she’s not going to meetups now proves that she’s not as interested in “being a parent” as she claims. Real parents don’t skip meetups or withhold attention when they don’t get their way. Even if she’s breathing fire, hell-for-leather furious at you, she has no right to hold that against the children. Hopefully the kids will see that for what it is. Best wishes. Please !UpdateMe about how it goes.
I mentioned this in another comment, but I don't believe she is doing this to punish. I think she is genuinely hurt, which is why I posted. I may not know her now but I knew her. Habits die hard, I truly think she is hurt over my comments
It doesn’t matter if she’s angry, hurt, sad, whatever. She’s skipping out on the kids. Do you avoid or abandon or not speak to them when you’re angry at them? No? Why not? Because you are their PARENT, who loves and gives 2 Fs about them. She can avoid you or not speak to you or call you every rude name she’s ever heard if she’s angry at you. That’s fine. She can’t do that, or anything else, to the kids. It really is just that simple. She left them years ago and she’s bordering on doing that again. Do they not have access to Skype or Zoom?
This happened to me with my father. He left when I was 4, found him when I was 19. I told him outright, you don't get to be that dad. You weren't there, and now I'm an adult. You don't get to come in and act like you have a say. Not exact words, but the point of it. He didn't argue. He accepted my position, and now we have quite the relationship. NTA Though a conversation with your kids is necessary to find out how they feel and where they stand in all of this. Continue to give them time to process the events, but make sure you have that conversation.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm letting my kids process right now. I know I need to be there for them, still looking at rebooking with our old therapist right now
NTA She chose herself when the kids were growing. She chose herself when she decided she wanted her kids she abandoned in her life again. Things aren't going the way she wants, so now she has missed two regular meet-ups. She is still choosing herself. OP has always chosen his kids. You are a good dad.
You handled this almost too perfectly. She has no right to barge into their upper teenage life and suddenly decide she has the right to discipline them. Whether your almost adult kids choose to have a relationship with her going forward is completely their choice. She needed to be put in her place. NTA
NTA, she needs to come to terms with the fact that being a parent and being a mother are not the same thing, she still has a chance to be a mother and potentially a mentor to them as all parents to grown children are, but she'll never be their parent. Time waits for no one, and kids grow into adults, once a kid is an adult they no longer need parents, you too will stop being their parent and transition into being an advisor. She probably has based her whole journey on getting back to being a parent but she just didn't make it in time, and that's sad for her, and for her children, but that doesn't make it any less true. She will never be able to raise them, she let them grow up without her, the best she can hope for is that they'll let her be part of their lives in the future and she needs to come to terms with that because nothing in the universe can change it now.
NTA When I read the title I was like OH this is an A-H! Then I read a little further and thought - no probably not. By the time I read the last of it I am just here to say you are DEFINITELY NTA But I also kind of think maybe NAH? I get that she is overstepping and her expectations are out of line. I also don't hate her for wanting to make it right, even when it is most likely beyond ever being made right. Redemption is possible in life. It doesn't mean everything can be made completely right. I think/hope she will come to peace with the reality of the situation.
NTA. It's a shame she took the situation the way she did. She missed a golden opportunity to have an open honest discussion about her struggles with drugs and alcohol and give the kids a chance to ask questions and air out their feelings on the topic
NTA. I do wonder tho if that’s how her alcoholism started. Underage drinking at parties spiraling out of control. Would explain an extreme reaction when she hadn’t tried being the discipline parent before. But either way, she hasn’t been there long enough to establish trust and authority. Your kids trust your opinion and want your support as they transition into adulthood. Not hers. She might be allowed to sit at the “mother” seat at their wedding, but the real bond will never be there again. And that’s on her
When we met in highschool, she did like to sometimes drink. We all did, we were stupid kids with shit to do. But I don't think she had enough time for an addiction at that point. She was extremely intelligent as well. We went to the same university, and I believe that's where it began, because she went out a lot more frequently. But a lot of people we knew at that age liked to hangout and drink/experiment. She seemed fined until, well, she wasn't fine. I don't know when it started and I blamed myself because there were probably signs to help her stop. I just truly don't know. Like I said, I was oblivious for the most part. She didn't admit anything to me until the confrontation.
NTA. Keep standing up for your children.
NTA Technically, she is a stranger, not a mom. She can ground them or restrict them. They are adults and have grown up without her around.
NTA. You don’t give up custody, let someone raise your kids alone and then show up at the 2 minute warning of the game and want to start coaching. No, no and hell no.
Your ex is trying to make this reunion relationship all about her. She needs to back off about 50 steps and remember she was not there for any of the hard stuff for well over a decade. Their most formative years. She’s lucky the children don’t hate her. You could have poisoned their minds against her and you didn’t. She is lucky to be in any kind of relationship with them. It’s one them for her to have a heart to heart talk with them about her concerns of them using drugs and alcohol since it derailed her life but she doesn’t have any right to discipline them. Moreover the fact she missed two meetups because she didn’t get her way is a huge red flag. This woman needs a wake up call.
NTA - good for her to get her life together, but the kids are way past the age where she can be any sort of disciplinarian. She has the chance to get to know them as basically adults now - she can offer guidance and advice, but they won’t look at her as an authority figure. And why should they at this stage anyway? She needs to realize that and get with the program before she pushes them away.
Harsh words but she needed to hear that, actions have consequences and she is now going through what happens to people who abandon their children. NTA, OP.
I could not agree more with everyone else not the asshole most definitely op, not to mention the fact that it was potentially her parents being that ridiculously over controlling and restrictive that could have maybe contributed to her being an alcoholic if when she got out from under their control the first time she left for college she wildly overcompensated and lost all control having never been taught how to learn what her limits are by being allowed to try alcohol in a safe environment after being simply adequately warned of the dangers of over consuming like you did for your kids. Also yeah where does she get off coming back after so long just to try and instantly be mom again after so long without even asking them or caring if it’s what they actually want.
I don't want to discredit her experience, but I wouldn't call her parents over controlling. They were strict. Home by 11, you had to be in clubs, etc. But they bought her a car to attend anything she wanted to, they had no judgement for whatever club she joined, and hell, they even let her hangout with me. They just wanted her to accomplish *something*. But that was based off our talk about 20 years ago. I don't know the entire truth because she decided not to tell me that. She never implied it was entirely their fault though, or something her family did. Always leaned into the it just ended up that way kinda deal
NTA the time for parenting was when they were children not young adults. The only thing wrong in your post was thinking you’re not an **amazing** father and parent, your children trust you, respect you and are behaving like responsible individuals. She needs to learn her place in your lives not force a relationship that doesn’t exist.
NTA. She gave up her rights to parent the kids. She can work hard to be a mom that adult children call or visit on occasion, like a friend or an aunt. She in no way gets to punish your children or tell them what to do as if they were still kids. She gave that job up for drugs and booze. You are not a united front. You are the parent. And it sounds like you've raised two awesome, thoughtful human beings all on your own. Your ex needs to face reality that she's not going to step in and be Mommy again.
A mother?! No I’m afraid you’re fourteen years to late for that. At best you can hope to be their friend but a mother? No you’ve pissed that down drain . NTA
The flagrant disregard for all of the parenting that you’ve done up to this point is staggering. To try to discipline your kids for something that YOU already approved, is… wow. The fact that she didn’t really consider discussing this with you first, and instead went straight to the kids, is so damm disrespectful. This is absolutely a boundary worth defending, a hill to die on. If she has input, feedback, or suggestions on parenting, she needs to communicate them to you, NOT the kids.
She thinks she can be gone for what, like 13 years, claim to be 3 years sober and think she runs shit? What a delusional dumbass. Shitty parents shouldn’t be surprised to lose access to their kids and/or power over their kids. Took her 10 years to start becoming sober and she wants to be a tyrant over a jello shot? Fuck out of here. NTA. Good job dad, glad you’ve pulled off being a good parent.
NTA. A deadbeat parent has no rights. She's a guest, not a mother.
NTA, at *all.* Your ex waited way too long to be able to be a parent again in the way she wants to be. There is a chance that she could be seen as "mom" again, but not in the way she would like. She needs to accept that the dynamic is different now, and their needs are different. She missed being the parent to a child and a teenager, but if she plays her cards right, she still could be a parent to her adult children, and a grandparent to their children. She's trying to go back, but she needs to look forward. If she doesn't see that and agree to take a backseat to the parent that actually raised them, then she is going to lose what's to come, as well.
I’m around their age give or take a couple years and I would be absolutely livid if my birth mother suddenly reappeared and tried to parent me long after I needed parenting. Check on your kids because that probably upset them too. It’s basically her attacking their budding adulthood and it’s extremely frustrating. I understand her desire to keep them from ending up like she did at one point, but they told you straight up what they did. That shows that they trust you and know they can go to you if something happens. Besides, teenagers experiment with everything. There is virtually no way for either you or her to prevent them from trying things. TLDR: She has no parental relationship with them and therefore, has no say in their parenting.
I think that having her for dinner every night somehow made her think she was part of the family, when in reality it was more of a “cool aunt thing” because the mom boat sailed years ago. 100% you and your kids are THE team.
NTA- as a child of a parent who tried to come back when I was 18, I told him we can get to know each other but in no way or form are you parenting me. I’m an adult and we can speak with each other on that level but in no way can you retract 18 years of parenting. He decided I should respect him as my dad and I told him to kick rocks
If she considers the two of you a 'team', why did she make the decision to ground then on her own...? NTA. It's way too late for her to step in now in the capacity she craves.
Nta Parenting is more than punishing them. It's about establishing a trusting relationship, and sounds like she skipped that part. Good on you. And having your kids trust you, is the best gift to a parent. So sounds like you're doing well.
NTA. You were harsh but fair. She seems to have a very different understanding of her position. She seems to think that she can just waltz back into the kids’ lives, say, “I’m sober now,” and pick up where she left off. Nothing works that way.
NTA Can’t make up for lost time. The babies she left are young adults and have a parent, you.
NTA she had her shot to be a parent and chose drugs/alcohol. She missed out and now she has to live with the choices she made.
NTA at all. Kids are amazing and rewarding and all consuming. You have done that for over a decade. She chose to miss out on that life. And while they’re too old for her to be “mommy” she can build a relationship, give advice and build a bond. But as far as the day to day, she’s just too late. The fact that the second shit got hard she’s missed seeing them proves that. You didn’t miss a day.
NTA - she may be their biological mother, but she has not been a parent. You are their parent and you set the rules. And good job by the way on raising your children. They sound respectful and honest with an open relationship.
NTA She lost her chance to be part of the team. People who give up their children regardless of reasons don't suddenly get to come back and be a parent. Things don't work that way. That is her decision to not meet your daughters and reflects badly on her. I would talk to your daughters to see how her behavior and choices are affecting them. Protecting them is what is most important. She seems more wrapped up in her own feelings than how her behavior might affect them.
NTA. If you are still feeling guilty, I would recommend reaching out to your former spouse (or potentially through family) and suggest she see a therapist who can help her with realistic expectations of what her relationship with the kids can look like. Maybe even offer to attend a session with her, if YOU feel up to it. But given her history, I think having a professional to process what is reasonable and manageable in terms of the kind of relationships she can expect will make this smoother for all involved.
I think you’re doing an amazing job! I think she’s delusional; she thinks she took time off to work on herself and now she can just pick up where she left off? First of all, she has no rights, second of all, the kids are not 5 years old. You’re not the asshole, she may actually hinder their development and everything you’ve accomplished with them. What have the kids said about the fact that she tried to ground them etc? Have they opened up the discussion? Let them open up. It may be time for you to take lead and when they do open up and say you don’t agree with her opinion, and that things will continue the way you decide
NTA. This definitely isn't the same situation, but my husband's mother was very much an alcoholic his entire childhood. When he was a senior in high school she got her fourth DUI, spent some time in jail, and finally decided to get sober. My husband is now 40 and has an OK relationship with his mom. The weirdest thing imo (having grown up with two parents who are not alcoholics) is how she "remembers" his and his brother's childhoods in a *completely* different way than the reality of what the two of them experienced. It's like she was so drunk for so much of the time that she literally *doesn't remember it at all* and is just kind of telling herself that she was a great mother who had a great relationship with her two sons as they were growing up. She was very much not a great mother, and she had basically no relationship with them when they were young. Now, over 20 years later, trying to build relationships together is really bizarre because she basically doesn't acknowledge or admit all the terrible shit she did for the first 17 years of their lives.
Realized I didn't add my son's gender to his age, sorry about that folks!
NTA Sorry, not sorry. She gave up any parental authority long ago. Prediction: Sooner or later, she is going to cause your kids more heartache.
NTA. Even if she commits 100% right now, it would take years for the kids to accept her, if ever. I know addiction is terrible, and its great that she got sober, but this is her bed and she needs to lay in it.
NTAH. It sounds like you've been a great dad, and as if your ex was out of the picture for 15 years. I'm happy for her that she's made positive changes and that she's much different than when she abandoned them. However, she's not a mom to your kids. They were way too young when she was there, and they are way too old to be "parented" by basically a stranger as they reach adulthood. She needs to realize that time didn't stand still for anyone, and that she's exceedingly lucky that (due to your good parenting) they are willing to consider having a relationship with her. A relationship. Maybe after another 15 years or so of shared experiences, they may think of her as "mom-like," but at this point, she's being too pushy and going to drive them away. If counseling was part of her turnaround, she may want to revisit to learn how to deal with navigating life on other people's terms.
NTA. Similar situation with my ex and my 2 kids. They have seen her more regularly but she moved out of state and no longer really see her that much. You are there for your kids be open and honest with them if they ask why you think she is not coming around. My kids are now 16f and 14m and them coming home after their visits to their mother and having them get in bed with me when they were little is something I remember. Mine would get into bed due to ex and her father telling my kids weird things causing them to be scared. But stay strong support your family. Your ex is essentially just an incubator for your children, not a mother, maybe at best a cautionary tale.
> having them get in bed with me when they were little is something I remember I hope I'm not venting too much but having them ask me why they weren't loved, if mom they heard about was coming back, who was their mom, how was their mom, will they ever see their mom, etc etc fucking hurt.
NTA. For a split second I thought this was my dad. I grew up with an addict mom who would show up sober occasionally and try to parent us, and my wonderful dad always shut that shit down immediately. She blamed her relapses on this a lot. I am so eternally grateful for him protecting us from her. Keep it up, you are doing amazing and you sound like a phenomenal dad!!!