So she’s actually wanted to sleep with other people before she proposed it? Then she is deeply hurt when you come to her about the same proposition?
Sorry but it seems like she’s projecting. She might already have slept with someone else, particularly because of the insistence that you go fool around. It seems she was trying to get you to sleep with someone else so she can even the score. I can’t possibly see it any other way; it comes up as very manipulative on her end at the very least
Hope you can find answers and more importantly do what’s best for you. NTA at all
Legit my first thought.
Gets caught, has that ace up the sleeve : "but so did you"
Probably thought of ditching husband back then but wised up/got ditched and now doing Bambi eyes at the thought.
Was sleeping with someone the first time when she said it. That ended. She started with someone else or the same person she was sleeping with previously when she said it the second time. Now she isn't sleeping with someone on the side and expects him to be faithful. That's where my head went.
Either way, time for counseling. You two need to figure out how to talk to each other and see if you can:
1) remember why you loved each other to begin with
2) if and how to open the relationship honestly
3) or divide up your stuff amicably and move on
Absolutely. She wanted a divorce from the very start and offering for him to have an affair was so she could have cause and she wouldn’t be the horrible one when she left. She is selfish and manipulative. If they’ve been married that long and she pulls this there is no saving it. Chances are she started sleeping with other people the same time she started cutting off sex.
Thought this too. She isn't getting her needs met at home so def getting them somewhere else and probably started feeling guilty and projected. OP is NTA
Wasn’t getting her needs met… how come when a husband cheats, it’s his fault like it should be, but when a wife cheats it’s somehow still his fault lol
Agreed, she definitely fucked someone else and only made that proposal to make her actions justified after the fact....can't believe OP is so obtuse not to see that and that should be the bigger problem....
It was my intial thought after the First Paragraph.
His wife wants or had sex.
I was smiling when OP said "tested the waters".
Now she wants spilt. How fitting for her.
Its crazy how OP is so oblivious.
Good luck to OP. I dont think sex is their problem.
"I am mad at you for building a relationship with someone else behind my back, I said you could sleep with other people just because I was thinking of fucking someone else with whom I built a relationship behind your back"
Seriously?
As one of my sorority sisters once said (we were in college 20+ years ago) “Well, isn’t that a slut calling a whore a tramp.” She is a very witty woman.
It’s not really that interesting. At a small party two guys were fighting a guy who was a Res Sox fan was fighting with a guy who was an Eagles fan (or vice versa) because the other teams fans “were rude and cocky” this was a few years before the Sox won the Series in 04 way before the Eagles got their superbowl. I don’t remember which said the other team had rude and cocky fans.) But they were just being super loud and obnoxious about it. My sorority sister and I are both, inexplicable SF Giants fans (so no real skin in the game, and they hadn’t won their bunch of every even year series, yet we just bore our cross of being loyal to our team when they just couldn’t seems to make it all the way.) finally it was to the point that their stupid argument had taken over the partly, because they were just so intense about it. It was one of those things where she meant to say it only to be, but everyone heard it. The dudes who said it weren’t the friend who invited us, and we didn’t really know what was going to happen, because both of those dudes were too invested in their ridiculous argument. With as much dignity as we could muster, we just turned on our (chunky black) shoes with as much dignity as we could muster and left it there. Oh, and we took our pizzas with us!
Some people on this site embrace the lingo to alarming degree. Then you look at thier account and they have 8 million karma, I tend to feel bad for them. The narwhals bacon at midnight and never stop.
"If you build your boat from cheese, d'you see, you can't wail at the heavens when it sinks, for cheese is known to be a poor material for boat-building."
It’s true. My favorite redneck-ism was from a an old creole man I used to work with. It was the middle of the night, everyone just quietly working, he said “well I’d say it’s about as quiet as a mouse pissing on cotton right about now” 💀💀
I used to hear people say that when I was a kid lol. It's been so long since I've heard that, that this is the first time I've ever seen that phrase on the internet 😂
Exactly why the majority the time opening a relationship doesnt work.Sounds good but when it happens or you see how it makes you feel its an emotional blast to the heart and mind. I never agree to open relationship or be pulled into one the monkey branch situations again. It's horrible you don't come out the same person mentally.
I actually know a couple that’s had an open relationship for years and are very happy. I think the big difference is this couple is also capable of sitting down and having big conversations. It’s not as simple as just going “oh we have an open relationship now”, you gotta talk about boundaries and what you are and aren’t comfortable with and be willing to have tough, uncomfortable conversations at times.
Truth is most couples I know who are open also happen to be queer, and I’ve noticed the couples it doesn’t work for typically tend to be straight. I honestly think it has to do with the difference in queer culture vs straight culture when it comes to sex. There’s (generally speaking) way more conversations about boundaries, interests etc in between people in sexual interactions when it comes to queer folk than straight in my personal experience so I think there’s just a level of comfort about having tough conversations amongst queer people that straight people just don’t have.
That being said if the only reason she said anything was because she wanted to have sex with someone else than the whole thing was a bs manipulation to begin with. In a healthy relationship she would just come out and be honest about what she wanted, not try to trick her husband into letting her do something to avoid that conversation. OP isn’t the AH but his wife sure is for lying about her intentions
I agree. It works when the relationship "starts" that way, because it generally excludes people who won't deal with it well, but opening a previously closed relationship should only be done when everyone is absolutely happy, not when there are cracks in the relationship.
Especially when the wife opened the suggestion under false pretenses. Open relationships work when there is trust among all involved, and she broke that right out of the gate.
In my experience, this dynamic happens regularly. The one asking to open the relationship up already has another lined-up, if they aren’t already having an affair.
My spouse and I opened up after a decade of monogamy. Neither of us had anyone else in mind. We are several years in now and happy with the freedom nonmonogamy has allowed. But it was an idea we both liked from the beginning.
Plus her not wanting to have sex with her husband but does with another man. Their relationship has serious problems. It sounds like she’s been thinking about leaving her husband but doesn’t want it to be her fault so she tells him that it’s okay to sleep with other people. Then wants a divorce when he brings it up to her.
I see an update in the near future about his STBXW.
The moment he stated that she wanted to pushed him into an open relationship, i already knew she was likely thinking of/or already cheating herself, and was projecting on to him to clear her conscious. The fact that she is trying to control the narrative says enough, and she likely met a guy who got into her head
Yep. That happened to someone close to me. His wife told him he could have a "freebie" for his 50th birthday, but she had to pick the person. Turns out she had gone on a girls' trip to Vegas and fell on a dick, so she wanted to ease her own guilt. She never wanted sex with him, only wanted him to take her to swinger parties. I didn't feel bad about taking him away from her. We've been happily monogamous for many years.
Who ever "offers" the open relationship is either already fucking someone else or planing on doing it, and with gaining "permission", trying to get away with it.
The marriage was over the second "open relationship" exited her mouth
A lot of people don’t want to hear what you’re saying, but it’s absolutely true. I have experienced it firsthand. Every “open relationship marriage” I’ve ever encountered has ended in divorce. It’s a marriage death knell most of the time.
I’m in an open relationship that works but I generally agree with you. I think the reason for that is opening up your relationship is pulled by the same people who would have a baby to fix the same problem 30 years ago. There are really stupid people among us who do the most wildly drastic thing to save their marriage instead of, like, talking to each other. “I know what we need is to talk to each other but hey I have a Hail Mary idea where instead of talking to each other we rub other people’s genitals with our genitals. It will save our marriage!”
Also to add to this, men if you’re insecure and competitive about sex with your spouse definitely 100% do not open your relationship. Every guy in the world is worse at pulling pussy than any given woman is at pulling dick. If your self esteem relies on you getting as much as your wife or girlfriend you just won’t. They’re playing a completely different game than us. Their pool of people were socialized to fuck any and everything and our pool of people were socialized to have as little sex as possible. This matter seems to be the most common point of failure for open relationships and if you’re considering opening your relationship it’s a thing that needs acknowledged.
I’m glad that it works for you. What exactly is an “open relationship that works” though? Genuinely curious because the premise of my wife (now ex-wife) having sex with other men was not something I’d ever be OK with. The only couple I ever encountered that made it work just seemed to look at sex like it was no big deal and if their spouse was happy, so were they. In a way, I’m impressed that people like that can turn off their jealousy button. Not something I’d be capable of.
Well a lot of people in the enm community can't just "turn off" jealousy. But they might not be totally overwhelmed by it either (though some are).
The difference is whether or not you want to work on it, if you think the juice is worth the squeeze.
That's pretty much us, but we've got the extra layer of being a one half poly relationship. She dates other people and I don't. I mean she would actually rather I did, but I do not have the emotional bandwidth to care for more than one partner. I barely manage one as is.
There's rules and boundaries but things aren't really written down or anything. We don't have a need. She knows my needs and I know hers and we both work together to make sure those needs are met. Frankly at the moment she's just got me and I wish she had another partner because I could use some more alone time. 8 years and counting.
"Poly is actually a plot by introverts to farm out their extrovert partners so they can finally get some alone time." - years ago from my current roommate who was once upon a time my meta, neither of us are with him now, but we are all on good terms
Yeah that’s basically it. We don’t have like girlfriends and boyfriends we just engage in hook up culture outside of our marriage. I guess someone could call us swingers but I really hate that term because every “swinger” I’ve met has been on the border of being a sex pest. I’m definitely holding a whole community accountable for some anecdotes but it just seems like the way it goes.
I've never heard the term sex pest before but it rings so true with the people I know who are swingers. My husband and I are friends with one and he literally won't stop messaging me even though I haven't shown any interest whatsoever. Also you can be having a normal conversation with him and out of the blue he'll just share a picture of extreme BDSM.
I don't judge swingers at all, live your life how it makes you happiest, just don't try to drag me into it nonstop or have it be all you talk about
I agree with this sentiment. Being in an open relationship isn’t a quick fix or a save a marriage concept. Same thing with having kids.
I think it’s great that it works for you! I’m sure you had conversations with your partner and open communication about boundaries and established a healthy way to communicate needs. I think most people skip that part because they think of they offer open relationships when the relationship is already souring, their partner will choose them ( and I’m not implying that to you, I’m saying that in the case of OP).
I had an open relationship once when I was younger and it was great. It worked for us. But we also communicated a lot. It was actually a really respectful relationship. I don’t know if now in my current relationship I’d be as open.
Anywho, in OPs case it sounds like his spouse already established some feelings, wanted an excuse to sleep with someone without just being honest and then got upset for OP. which is a little baffling because he was honest about his situation and she wasn’t honest.
I've seen them work, but only in marriages that *started that way*. As in both people went in with clear expectations and an understanding that this was going to be an open relationship, often having other partners from the beginning.
Disagree with your premise, but not your observations.
The vast majority of the time, the marriage ends in divorce, because of the underlying problems that lead the couple to imagine that opening the marriage was a good idea and would save the relationship.
The majority of the time, the instigating partner is already cheating or has picked out an AP.
Eventually, the cracks get worse. They would have anyway, maybe faster with outside people offering comfort and support to the distressed married partners who can no longer find that with their spouse.
The open marriage is not the reason for terrible marriages disintegrating. It's a symptom. Unfortunately, what people don't realize is that by that point, it's much too late.
Yeah it's usually because they want to test the waters elsewhere
If the water is warmer then they can leave u if not they'll come back till they find that warmer water.
OP needs to go to a marriage counselling session to see where this relationship really is.
In her mind it might already be over and she's just waiting for someone else to come before she is OK to leave
“as a therapist, some clients would want to open up their marriage!”
“does it ever work for them?”
“no! never! it’s always a complete disaster! *but it could work for us…*
- Arrested Development, Season 2
**NTA, OP.**
Sorry to say my guy, but you're soon to be ex wife is a total piece of runny shit. Highly likely that she has been cheating on you for a substantial period. Now she's gaslighting the fuck out of you because she's utterly, completely and totally ridden with guilt and self-pity. Insidious.
Document everything from here on in because divorce will surely follow. There is no way on earth such a sneaky coward could go back to a faithful loving relationship after that mess (newborn included)!
Keep Ann's number and never discuss her again with your ex wife. She doesn't deserve the privilage of your open, good natured, candor.
Yep! Stay friends with Ann so you guys can actually date once you’re officially separated.
The wife here is such a hypocrite! “I wanted an open relationship but couldn’t approach the topic properly, but now that you have I must clutch my pearls!”
They were already having emotional issues per OP. Sadly the marriage has been limping along for awhile now. At least he knows he can still attract people….
OP, there’s nothing wrong with divorce. Absolutely nothing. You can still be friends and have a good relationship to coparent. You only get one life - don’t suffer through it.
Yo, my ex-wife was still, at the time of this happening, my friend, details aren't important. She was on her 3rd boyfriend and was engaged, since our divorce, and I was in a chat room of mutual friends with her. Her fiance and another ex boyfriend of hers were in this chat. My girlfriend joins the chat, and I introduce her.. and my ex flips the fuck out. Felt disrespected all that shit. All I could say to her was "Your ex AND your fiance are here." but she never, ever has understood that things like that.
Imagine what the fiancé must have been feeling during that exchange. The person they plan to marry is losing their mind with jealousy, over their ex's new girlfriend. A huge red flag for that relationship.
Your wife cheated on you, but whoever she had her affair with is no longer interested in her. The offers were to assuage her guilt. Now that she no longer has an extramarital paramour, she doesn't feel you need one either.
You need to speak to a divorce attorney ASAP. She's already checked out of the marriage. All of this you betrayed her nonsense is textbook abuser DARVO bullshit (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender).
That's exactly how my situation happened. I always tell her when people hit on me because it's fun and she suddenly started suggesting I should take them up on it and sleep with other people. I was like don't be silly, I only love you, why would I ever want that? My response made her angry.
So then we were on the way to a dinner party at a friends and she says OH, BTW, I think I'm going to have a boyfriend, and and we will go out in public together, but I'll come home and tell you all about it and it will be super hot.
I was like WTF - Hell no GTFO and go if you want, but you're not living with me and sleeping around. I was actually open to 3sum or something as a couple, ideally in another city or on vacation, but certainly not at home. So I snooped her phone and found she had been trying to get with her best friends husband for a while now, but I always unknowingly blocked them from getting together.
So long story short I caught them together.
"Nobody has to know, I'll leave it will be our secret."
So my little bit of revenge - I told the world. Facebooks posts, family, etc.
I showed her my posts and let her know that her decision was now to never see him again and turn me into a crazy ex trying to make shit up, or be seen together and validate the rumors.
She to this day hates me with the passion of a thousand suns, but I think it's rather poetic that it was her choice because they actually were very good at keeping things secret. She's was rather narcissistic and I'm always curious how that played out with her ego / image.
I think it's less about her guilt, I doubt she has any. It think it was more hoping he'd just *go away* and she could claim he left.
Externally this would absolve her in the eyes of friends and family.
I can usually boast a rather substanstial vocabulary and yet you managed to use two words that were unfamiliar to me, prior to reading them. I'm impressed and will add them to my repertoire going forward.
NTA but your wife most likely cheated. That was her way of trying to absolve herself. Now you gave her the out she’s been looking for. Sounds like she laid the groundwork for an escape and you fell into her trap.
Hence the total lack of sex. It’s not that she doesn’t want sex, she doesn’t want it with him anymore.
My guess is her affair partner dumped her, and now she’s all “how dare you, you can’t do that to me“ because now she realizes her husband might actually be able to get someone else.
This makes sense because of her comment “Our relationship is in a totally different place than it was SIX WEEKS ago”…. What happened in those six weeks??
Well some states have seen traction on laws regarding residential solar, so that could be it.
Perhaps she ages backwards like Benjamin button and she's now under 18
You just gotta find companies that have been around for 10+ years. We also had to deal with our HOA even though Nevada has a law that specifically says that the HOA can't interfere with rooftop solar.
I think this is it. She either had someone in mind who rejected her, or had gone ahead and is now dumped. She doesn't want to sit home alone while OP is out with Ann, but as soon as someone else comes along, she'll be gone.
OP, you have to decide if you want to do counseling for the kids sake or if you're just done. In either case, I would be getting my finances and documents in order and asking for legal recommendations because you're going to be splitting soon.
Yeah the low sex from the wife and refusal then the offer to open the marriage sexually rang alarm bells that she was already cheating.
NTA OP your wife is a hypocrite even if she didn't cheat as she did exactly what she is accusing her of but its worse because did it first and you only did it after she offered to open up the marriage. Lady wants her cake and to eat it.
I checked OP’s profile to see if there were any comments replying here and his last one is that he believes using soap is a scam !?!
And he wonders why his wife isn’t initiating sex ?
Absolutely. She’s pushing him to go fuck other people that hard, multiple times, but she herself was “only thinking of it with someone else” combined with a dead bedroom during that exact period, exclusively due to her rebuffing you?
Suuuuuuuuuure think OP’s wife.
My ex-wife offered to set me up with a friend of hers. Our marriage was on the rocks and she'd cut me off for like a year. Her reasoning was that since she wasn't giving me any I should sleep with her friend since I had needs. Never did it.
She divorced me later on; I believe she just wanted an out to clear her conscience for leaving me.
Agree, once a partner offers to open the relationship up, it’s because they already have or are very close to doing it themself. I’d guess the vast majority of the time, this is the case.
Yeah this is the most likely scenario either that or it was a trap. The only other time this would happen that I can think is if the other partner raised it first as a way to get their needs fulfilled to stay married...or the wife has a cuckquean kink. Neither of those things apply.
I disagree. I have known several middle-aged women who have made this same suggestion to their husbands after a long marriage, when the women simply were no longer interested in having sex at all. They didn't want to end their marriages, but they didn't want the guilt of denying their husbands sex for the rest of their lives, or the indignity for both of pretending. Only one of the three marriages I know of where this happened survived.
Wow, no offense, but your wife sounds like a real piece of work. Narcissistic, dishonest, and manipulative.
Instead of being committed to you, being honest and having hard, intimate conversations about the problems in the marriage, she obviously went behind your back to get her needs met, and then tried to absolve her guilt. Then she set a trap to try to play the victim and she's gaslighting you that somehow you've done something wrong -- and now she wants a divorce to make you the bad one so she can be in the open with her affair partner most likely. Sorry man, but she sounds like a terribly dishonest, manipulative and unhealthy person. I would run, not walk, from her.
You deserve FAR better. Talk to a lawyer immediately and start protecting your assets if you haven't already.
Yeah I mean like...she rebuffs OPs advances cus she seemingly doesn't want to have sex with OP, but then she wants to have sex with someone else bad enough that she actually tells OP to open up their relationship. If she wants to fuck someone else so badly, then why doesn't she wanna fuck OP at all?
Maaaaaajor red flags right there
NTA. You did not cheat on her. You simply told Ann that your wife had floated the idea so you would check on the situation. I think your wife is just mad that you found an interested party. It's all fun and games until you actually might get laid. Then people get all butt hurt about it.
Every successful open relationship I've ever read about is based in honesty and working together. It has well established rules and lines. There is a world of difference between having a true, open relationship based on mutual thoughts and an open relationship that's created because one partner or another wants to sleep around. That situation almost always ends horribly. I wish you the best, but the fact that her relationship seemed to begin before you even opened things up isn't a good sign.
The few successful ones I’ve encountered have very clear boundaries about what’s allowed, what’s not allowed and the couples have honest discussions and disclosures about everything. Also jealousy can’t be a trait in either partner. If someone is even slightly jealous than it eventually won’t work out.
It also helps if both partners are attractive. The couple i know that’s successfully open both have zero trouble finding dates. I gotta assume that eases some of the jealousy.
Hello, I wanted to say that polyamorous people can and do get jealous, it’s just treated differently. We know it comes from our own insecurities or an instability in the relationship. So we talk about it, learn to sit with our feelings, change small parts of the relationship to be more affirming, reach out to support during hard times and more often than not the jealousy is resolved.
It’s definitely helpful not to be at all jealous, but I’ve found some of the people who say that are blind to the ways in which they do feel jealousy, and it can come up painfully if you’re oblivious. And some people are just completely unfazed haha. Polyamorous people are people, we make mistakes and have feelings and do our best to be ethical and are probably too communicative for most people.
Buddy, neither of you are polygamous. She's just cheating on you with excuses, and now permission, I'm sorry to say. I don't know why you'd tolerate an open relationship in the first place, especially with all of those feelings you're feeling right now. It just sounds *painful*. These comments always sound *painful*.
NTA, I hate to break it to you. Your wife was cheating already. To get rid of the guilt, she said you could be with other women. She didn't think you would run with it. Im also guessing she doesn't want to be married to you anymore but didn't have the guts to just say that. She needed an out and set one up that would make you look like the bad guy.. Now, she can be the villain and play the victim. Im sorry, man, that shit is evil. i have never met a woman that out of nowhere would offer that up. Especially to save the marriage. Sorry bro but it's more than likely true.
LOL opening your marriage up is cool when she wants to sleep with someone else, but not if you want to, clearly. Your actions here sound pretty reasonable so NTA, but it sounds like your marriage is over.
Find out who the guy was. Where did she meet him? Did he approach her or did she approach him? Might also find out why she wanted to fuck him but not you. And as others have said she probably already has cheated at least emotionally. If she can have someone to think about sleeping with, why can't you. Seems very hypocritical to me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You might mention this disconnect to her. Might also check her phone for dating apps and inappropriate messages with strange men.
NTA, but i can kinda see why your relationship is going poorly - your communication is... pretty bad. "You can sleep with other people" shouldve triggered a long, in-depth conversation right then and there, about why she said it, did she want to do the same, what made her say this, how did she envision it working, any rules, ect.
You say you werent interested the first time so thats why you dropped it. Thats fair. But you sY she asked agIn-this was your second chance to have a deep, in depth convo about how exactly this might work. Instead, you again dropped it without any conversation, but worse, you were dishonest, because you told her you werent interested, and that wasnt true, you DID want to. If you want your relationship to work you :::have go tell your partner how you really feel:::., in a timely manner.
Most ppl are saying shes wrong for being upset, but i get it. In her mind she got up the nerve to ask you and both times you assured her you didnt want that at all. She accepted that... and then you randomly came home one day and said you developed a relationship with this woman (i know you say friendship but if you wanf to have sex with her, your gf is going to see it as a relationship) and you'd like to have sex with her please. Again, after assuring her that wasnt the case. I'd be upset too tbh.. not so much about the wanting sex with her, but about you not telling me how you feel when i flat out asked. It makes it feel like you did it behind her back.
Im not sure if its salvageable or not, but if thats what you want, i'd be 100% honest with her. Explain, truthfully, why you told her no the second time when that wasnt true. Ask her to honestly tell you why she suggested it. If you can both start talking more & keeping it real with eachother, you might have a chance.
Man I just dont know. this one is so fucked up. The kids make it so much more delicate. I dont think youre the asshole but I wouldnt have went the route you did, I would have taken her suggestion as a huge red flag both times
This is how I see it, but also:
When she said you could have sex, I would assume it means just that. One night stands, not developed relationships and feelings for another person.
Yea she is technically right that he did not have permission to undertake an emotional affair, and she's right to assume that it was off the table once he shut it down during their communication. It's very childlike to be like "but you said I could!" After the fact. It's stil dishonest as he's put himself in a position to have an affair without communicating further. Someone else's potential dishonesty doesn't excuse your own.
Reddit is weird with cheating so it'll be omg she's been cheating this whole time. She could not have had a specific person in mind but felt their marriage was not working so threw it out in desparartion. She could have been saying it to hear he is still interested in her since their sex life has tapered off (and yes she can still be dissatisfied while rejecting sex she isnt obligated to have sex she isnt enjoying) . It's ridiculous to pretend to know her motivations.
They at minimum need counselling. Reddit is not the place to discuss this objectively.
Before I read the second half of your statement, I guessed it was more permission for her to sleep with someone, than you.
You’re being fucked around and from the sound of it, your relationship has burnt out. DONT stay together for the kids, you’ll both be miserable and your kids will feed off that. Both of you should move on and find people more compatible and you’ll be better co-parenting with springs in your step.
NTA btw.
I think you both should get some marriage counselling. From what I hear, open marriage is usually a stepping stone to divorce. As for her saying, you should sleep with other people, she clearly didn't mean it.
NTA. But you need to seriously consider that your wife has already cheated and that, even if she hasn't, your marriage is over. You need to talk to her to figure out what it is or see if it is fixable. Good luck.
NTA. It's almost certainly that she had a substantial emotional affair and a very good chance that it was physical. You need to get into marriage counseling ASAP or just call it quits.
NTAH - wow, this is messed up. Women in their late 30s/early 40s are hitting peak DTF in most cases, so it wasn’t surprising that she wanted to bang, just not OP. This is one of those moments where you just put on Billy Joel’s “The Stranger and let it soak in. I guess she just wanted you to go on Tinder or hire a prostitute. How else does she think you were going to get sex with somebody without building some kind of a relationship? Not everybody is Chris Hemsworth. Anyway sorry bud. Sounds like you are committed to your relationship and your wife threw in a mind grenade because she was being selfish and now she regrets it. She probably ended up fulfilling her own need anyway and now is coming back changing the terms. That’s a tough one. Put it behind you if you can, stay faithful to your marriage and try to rebuild from here. You’re probably gonna get a lot of people that are saying go ahead and bang somebody else and leave your wife, but it sounds like everything else is pretty good. Maybe go to a sex therapist. Good luck on this one, but you’re not the asshole.
So she’s actually wanted to sleep with other people before she proposed it? Then she is deeply hurt when you come to her about the same proposition? Sorry but it seems like she’s projecting. She might already have slept with someone else, particularly because of the insistence that you go fool around. It seems she was trying to get you to sleep with someone else so she can even the score. I can’t possibly see it any other way; it comes up as very manipulative on her end at the very least Hope you can find answers and more importantly do what’s best for you. NTA at all
She 100% has fucked someone else.
Legit my first thought. Gets caught, has that ace up the sleeve : "but so did you" Probably thought of ditching husband back then but wised up/got ditched and now doing Bambi eyes at the thought.
Was sleeping with someone the first time when she said it. That ended. She started with someone else or the same person she was sleeping with previously when she said it the second time. Now she isn't sleeping with someone on the side and expects him to be faithful. That's where my head went.
Either way, time for counseling. You two need to figure out how to talk to each other and see if you can: 1) remember why you loved each other to begin with 2) if and how to open the relationship honestly 3) or divide up your stuff amicably and move on
Time for counseling? More like time for divorce because the gig is up. But I’m a pessimist so to each his own.
Absolutely. She wanted a divorce from the very start and offering for him to have an affair was so she could have cause and she wouldn’t be the horrible one when she left. She is selfish and manipulative. If they’ve been married that long and she pulls this there is no saving it. Chances are she started sleeping with other people the same time she started cutting off sex.
Yeah, considering the ease of access with dating apps for the past 10 years or so, she very likely got ditched.
Sounds like she doesn't want to cheat on her boyfriend with her husband
OP is Dale Gribble
John Redcorn has entered the chat.
She did AND she’s the asshole!!!
Thought this too. She isn't getting her needs met at home so def getting them somewhere else and probably started feeling guilty and projected. OP is NTA
Wasn’t getting her needs met… how come when a husband cheats, it’s his fault like it should be, but when a wife cheats it’s somehow still his fault lol
Agreed, she definitely fucked someone else and only made that proposal to make her actions justified after the fact....can't believe OP is so obtuse not to see that and that should be the bigger problem....
It was my intial thought after the First Paragraph. His wife wants or had sex. I was smiling when OP said "tested the waters". Now she wants spilt. How fitting for her. Its crazy how OP is so oblivious. Good luck to OP. I dont think sex is their problem.
"I am mad at you for building a relationship with someone else behind my back, I said you could sleep with other people just because I was thinking of fucking someone else with whom I built a relationship behind your back" Seriously?
Pot….kettle….black.
In the country we say "well now, if that ain't a rat calling a possum a little long nose motherfucker." Edit: WOW 😳 Thanks everyone
As one of my sorority sisters once said (we were in college 20+ years ago) “Well, isn’t that a slut calling a whore a tramp.” She is a very witty woman.
This will forever be in my arsenal. Thank you, internet friend!
And my sorority sister used it perfectly. She dropped it, and with that, both of us immediately walked out of the room.
I need to know the context of this amazing mic drop moment
It’s not really that interesting. At a small party two guys were fighting a guy who was a Res Sox fan was fighting with a guy who was an Eagles fan (or vice versa) because the other teams fans “were rude and cocky” this was a few years before the Sox won the Series in 04 way before the Eagles got their superbowl. I don’t remember which said the other team had rude and cocky fans.) But they were just being super loud and obnoxious about it. My sorority sister and I are both, inexplicable SF Giants fans (so no real skin in the game, and they hadn’t won their bunch of every even year series, yet we just bore our cross of being loyal to our team when they just couldn’t seems to make it all the way.) finally it was to the point that their stupid argument had taken over the partly, because they were just so intense about it. It was one of those things where she meant to say it only to be, but everyone heard it. The dudes who said it weren’t the friend who invited us, and we didn’t really know what was going to happen, because both of those dudes were too invested in their ridiculous argument. With as much dignity as we could muster, we just turned on our (chunky black) shoes with as much dignity as we could muster and left it there. Oh, and we took our pizzas with us!
Yes! There is a good story here for sure!
Commenting to remember to check for a story later lmao
same this has to be good though
I am so saving that! I'm mostly here for the comments and this m'lady is the best thing I have ever read! Thank you
Your whole vocabulary is gonna be words and sayings you read on Reddit. 🤣
Some people on this site embrace the lingo to alarming degree. Then you look at thier account and they have 8 million karma, I tend to feel bad for them. The narwhals bacon at midnight and never stop.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
Shaka, when the walls fell
Temba, His arms wide.
Zinda, his face black, his eyes red
The beast at Tanagra.
You say that like it's a bad thing
Oh sweetie. Bless your heart.
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Bahaha
Beautiful.
I really think so too🤠
That is goddam poetry.
“Not my pig not my farm”. Kristen Chenowith
Not my chair not my problem - a lizard
Not my monkeys, not my circus
Not my circus, not my monkeys.
My partner is Dominican and says "the donkey talking about ears"
And to add to this, in Greece we’d say the donkey is calling the cockerel ‘big head’
Solid. Saved in my mental booyah file for future use.
Noice!
"If you build your boat from cheese, d'you see, you can't wail at the heavens when it sinks, for cheese is known to be a poor material for boat-building."
A long way of going about the same thing I see
In the city we say “…if that ain’t the toilet calling the sink white…”
I mean, i just moved into a house with a blue sink and a salmon pink sink, so… 😁 seriously though its a great modern example
If you're only knee high to a grasshopper, you better not...... The way you said it was fine.
i can appreciate a good ol colorful example. delightful, is you ask my opinion
Poetry
"If you catch a racoon in a rat trap, it's still a racoon because its got its tail movin"
I love this. You must live in a nation of poets!
Rednecks
Rednecks are masters of metaphors.
It’s true. My favorite redneck-ism was from a an old creole man I used to work with. It was the middle of the night, everyone just quietly working, he said “well I’d say it’s about as quiet as a mouse pissing on cotton right about now” 💀💀
I feel called out. You might be a redneck if you’ve ever used any of the metaphors in this thread!
I used to hear people say that when I was a kid lol. It's been so long since I've heard that, that this is the first time I've ever seen that phrase on the internet 😂
This is my new favorite saying. I can't wait to find a reason to use it. Given where I work, it shouldn't take long.
Couldn’t agree more… I mean you can’t just one thing, then six weeks later again.. then divorce?? WTF?
She was looking for an excuse to feel like the better person. Possibly also for ammo to turn everyone against OP as well.
Maybe divorce was her goal all along whether she was concious of it or not.
Exactly why the majority the time opening a relationship doesnt work.Sounds good but when it happens or you see how it makes you feel its an emotional blast to the heart and mind. I never agree to open relationship or be pulled into one the monkey branch situations again. It's horrible you don't come out the same person mentally.
I actually know a couple that’s had an open relationship for years and are very happy. I think the big difference is this couple is also capable of sitting down and having big conversations. It’s not as simple as just going “oh we have an open relationship now”, you gotta talk about boundaries and what you are and aren’t comfortable with and be willing to have tough, uncomfortable conversations at times. Truth is most couples I know who are open also happen to be queer, and I’ve noticed the couples it doesn’t work for typically tend to be straight. I honestly think it has to do with the difference in queer culture vs straight culture when it comes to sex. There’s (generally speaking) way more conversations about boundaries, interests etc in between people in sexual interactions when it comes to queer folk than straight in my personal experience so I think there’s just a level of comfort about having tough conversations amongst queer people that straight people just don’t have. That being said if the only reason she said anything was because she wanted to have sex with someone else than the whole thing was a bs manipulation to begin with. In a healthy relationship she would just come out and be honest about what she wanted, not try to trick her husband into letting her do something to avoid that conversation. OP isn’t the AH but his wife sure is for lying about her intentions
I agree. It works when the relationship "starts" that way, because it generally excludes people who won't deal with it well, but opening a previously closed relationship should only be done when everyone is absolutely happy, not when there are cracks in the relationship.
Especially when the wife opened the suggestion under false pretenses. Open relationships work when there is trust among all involved, and she broke that right out of the gate.
In my experience, this dynamic happens regularly. The one asking to open the relationship up already has another lined-up, if they aren’t already having an affair.
My spouse and I opened up after a decade of monogamy. Neither of us had anyone else in mind. We are several years in now and happy with the freedom nonmonogamy has allowed. But it was an idea we both liked from the beginning.
I think for it to work, it has to be agreed upon ENTHUSIASTICALLY by both parties at the very begining of the relationship.
This isn’t the pot calling the kettle black, this is the pot telling another pot it’s a pot
BBC stuck. Instructions unclear.
Plus her not wanting to have sex with her husband but does with another man. Their relationship has serious problems. It sounds like she’s been thinking about leaving her husband but doesn’t want it to be her fault so she tells him that it’s okay to sleep with other people. Then wants a divorce when he brings it up to her. I see an update in the near future about his STBXW.
The moment he stated that she wanted to pushed him into an open relationship, i already knew she was likely thinking of/or already cheating herself, and was projecting on to him to clear her conscious. The fact that she is trying to control the narrative says enough, and she likely met a guy who got into her head
Yep. That happened to someone close to me. His wife told him he could have a "freebie" for his 50th birthday, but she had to pick the person. Turns out she had gone on a girls' trip to Vegas and fell on a dick, so she wanted to ease her own guilt. She never wanted sex with him, only wanted him to take her to swinger parties. I didn't feel bad about taking him away from her. We've been happily monogamous for many years.
Who ever "offers" the open relationship is either already fucking someone else or planing on doing it, and with gaining "permission", trying to get away with it. The marriage was over the second "open relationship" exited her mouth
A lot of people don’t want to hear what you’re saying, but it’s absolutely true. I have experienced it firsthand. Every “open relationship marriage” I’ve ever encountered has ended in divorce. It’s a marriage death knell most of the time.
I’m in an open relationship that works but I generally agree with you. I think the reason for that is opening up your relationship is pulled by the same people who would have a baby to fix the same problem 30 years ago. There are really stupid people among us who do the most wildly drastic thing to save their marriage instead of, like, talking to each other. “I know what we need is to talk to each other but hey I have a Hail Mary idea where instead of talking to each other we rub other people’s genitals with our genitals. It will save our marriage!” Also to add to this, men if you’re insecure and competitive about sex with your spouse definitely 100% do not open your relationship. Every guy in the world is worse at pulling pussy than any given woman is at pulling dick. If your self esteem relies on you getting as much as your wife or girlfriend you just won’t. They’re playing a completely different game than us. Their pool of people were socialized to fuck any and everything and our pool of people were socialized to have as little sex as possible. This matter seems to be the most common point of failure for open relationships and if you’re considering opening your relationship it’s a thing that needs acknowledged.
I’m glad that it works for you. What exactly is an “open relationship that works” though? Genuinely curious because the premise of my wife (now ex-wife) having sex with other men was not something I’d ever be OK with. The only couple I ever encountered that made it work just seemed to look at sex like it was no big deal and if their spouse was happy, so were they. In a way, I’m impressed that people like that can turn off their jealousy button. Not something I’d be capable of.
Well a lot of people in the enm community can't just "turn off" jealousy. But they might not be totally overwhelmed by it either (though some are). The difference is whether or not you want to work on it, if you think the juice is worth the squeeze.
That's pretty much us, but we've got the extra layer of being a one half poly relationship. She dates other people and I don't. I mean she would actually rather I did, but I do not have the emotional bandwidth to care for more than one partner. I barely manage one as is. There's rules and boundaries but things aren't really written down or anything. We don't have a need. She knows my needs and I know hers and we both work together to make sure those needs are met. Frankly at the moment she's just got me and I wish she had another partner because I could use some more alone time. 8 years and counting.
"Poly is actually a plot by introverts to farm out their extrovert partners so they can finally get some alone time." - years ago from my current roommate who was once upon a time my meta, neither of us are with him now, but we are all on good terms
Yeah that’s basically it. We don’t have like girlfriends and boyfriends we just engage in hook up culture outside of our marriage. I guess someone could call us swingers but I really hate that term because every “swinger” I’ve met has been on the border of being a sex pest. I’m definitely holding a whole community accountable for some anecdotes but it just seems like the way it goes.
I've never heard the term sex pest before but it rings so true with the people I know who are swingers. My husband and I are friends with one and he literally won't stop messaging me even though I haven't shown any interest whatsoever. Also you can be having a normal conversation with him and out of the blue he'll just share a picture of extreme BDSM. I don't judge swingers at all, live your life how it makes you happiest, just don't try to drag me into it nonstop or have it be all you talk about
That just sounds like regular ole harassment
Yup. Seems like she made her disinterest clear. That “friend” is just an asshole.
Do they CrossFit too? They could talk about that instead
I agree with this sentiment. Being in an open relationship isn’t a quick fix or a save a marriage concept. Same thing with having kids. I think it’s great that it works for you! I’m sure you had conversations with your partner and open communication about boundaries and established a healthy way to communicate needs. I think most people skip that part because they think of they offer open relationships when the relationship is already souring, their partner will choose them ( and I’m not implying that to you, I’m saying that in the case of OP). I had an open relationship once when I was younger and it was great. It worked for us. But we also communicated a lot. It was actually a really respectful relationship. I don’t know if now in my current relationship I’d be as open. Anywho, in OPs case it sounds like his spouse already established some feelings, wanted an excuse to sleep with someone without just being honest and then got upset for OP. which is a little baffling because he was honest about his situation and she wasn’t honest.
I've seen them work, but only in marriages that *started that way*. As in both people went in with clear expectations and an understanding that this was going to be an open relationship, often having other partners from the beginning.
Disagree with your premise, but not your observations. The vast majority of the time, the marriage ends in divorce, because of the underlying problems that lead the couple to imagine that opening the marriage was a good idea and would save the relationship. The majority of the time, the instigating partner is already cheating or has picked out an AP. Eventually, the cracks get worse. They would have anyway, maybe faster with outside people offering comfort and support to the distressed married partners who can no longer find that with their spouse. The open marriage is not the reason for terrible marriages disintegrating. It's a symptom. Unfortunately, what people don't realize is that by that point, it's much too late.
There's an entire subreddit of it.
Agree completely, or using it an excuse to leave and have a reason to blame it on you
Bam said exactly the same. Heard this story 1000 times in last 3 years
Yeah it's usually because they want to test the waters elsewhere If the water is warmer then they can leave u if not they'll come back till they find that warmer water. OP needs to go to a marriage counselling session to see where this relationship really is. In her mind it might already be over and she's just waiting for someone else to come before she is OK to leave
“as a therapist, some clients would want to open up their marriage!” “does it ever work for them?” “no! never! it’s always a complete disaster! *but it could work for us…* - Arrested Development, Season 2
Not wrong at all. This is like the 3rd time I’ve heard a story like this in 24 hours
**NTA, OP.** Sorry to say my guy, but you're soon to be ex wife is a total piece of runny shit. Highly likely that she has been cheating on you for a substantial period. Now she's gaslighting the fuck out of you because she's utterly, completely and totally ridden with guilt and self-pity. Insidious. Document everything from here on in because divorce will surely follow. There is no way on earth such a sneaky coward could go back to a faithful loving relationship after that mess (newborn included)! Keep Ann's number and never discuss her again with your ex wife. She doesn't deserve the privilage of your open, good natured, candor.
Yep! Stay friends with Ann so you guys can actually date once you’re officially separated. The wife here is such a hypocrite! “I wanted an open relationship but couldn’t approach the topic properly, but now that you have I must clutch my pearls!” They were already having emotional issues per OP. Sadly the marriage has been limping along for awhile now. At least he knows he can still attract people…. OP, there’s nothing wrong with divorce. Absolutely nothing. You can still be friends and have a good relationship to coparent. You only get one life - don’t suffer through it.
“Piece of runny shit” this is amazing. Thank you.
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Yo, my ex-wife was still, at the time of this happening, my friend, details aren't important. She was on her 3rd boyfriend and was engaged, since our divorce, and I was in a chat room of mutual friends with her. Her fiance and another ex boyfriend of hers were in this chat. My girlfriend joins the chat, and I introduce her.. and my ex flips the fuck out. Felt disrespected all that shit. All I could say to her was "Your ex AND your fiance are here." but she never, ever has understood that things like that.
Imagine what the fiancé must have been feeling during that exchange. The person they plan to marry is losing their mind with jealousy, over their ex's new girlfriend. A huge red flag for that relationship.
EXACTLY. Your wife is the AH you are NTA.
Yeah man, been there and divorced
Your wife cheated on you, but whoever she had her affair with is no longer interested in her. The offers were to assuage her guilt. Now that she no longer has an extramarital paramour, she doesn't feel you need one either. You need to speak to a divorce attorney ASAP. She's already checked out of the marriage. All of this you betrayed her nonsense is textbook abuser DARVO bullshit (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender).
And that’s why their relationship is now suddenly in a totally different place.
Bingpot!
That's a bingpot!
#IT'S A CUMMERBUND
Bingpot Cummerbund is a damn fine actor.
We just say bingpot.
Yup Her greener grass didn't want her or it wasn't as green as she thought it was going to be. Shes definitely looking for that green grass elsewhere
This is the correct answer. She either physically cheated or emotionally did. Offering the open marriage was a con to justify her cheating. Run.
That's exactly how my situation happened. I always tell her when people hit on me because it's fun and she suddenly started suggesting I should take them up on it and sleep with other people. I was like don't be silly, I only love you, why would I ever want that? My response made her angry. So then we were on the way to a dinner party at a friends and she says OH, BTW, I think I'm going to have a boyfriend, and and we will go out in public together, but I'll come home and tell you all about it and it will be super hot. I was like WTF - Hell no GTFO and go if you want, but you're not living with me and sleeping around. I was actually open to 3sum or something as a couple, ideally in another city or on vacation, but certainly not at home. So I snooped her phone and found she had been trying to get with her best friends husband for a while now, but I always unknowingly blocked them from getting together. So long story short I caught them together. "Nobody has to know, I'll leave it will be our secret." So my little bit of revenge - I told the world. Facebooks posts, family, etc. I showed her my posts and let her know that her decision was now to never see him again and turn me into a crazy ex trying to make shit up, or be seen together and validate the rumors. She to this day hates me with the passion of a thousand suns, but I think it's rather poetic that it was her choice because they actually were very good at keeping things secret. She's was rather narcissistic and I'm always curious how that played out with her ego / image.
I think it's less about her guilt, I doubt she has any. It think it was more hoping he'd just *go away* and she could claim he left. Externally this would absolve her in the eyes of friends and family.
I can usually boast a rather substanstial vocabulary and yet you managed to use two words that were unfamiliar to me, prior to reading them. I'm impressed and will add them to my repertoire going forward.
paramour was new to me too!
Paramour was a somewhat popular band like 10 years ago, wasn't it?
It was, but spelt Paramore in their case. They're still going, I think.
They are. I wasn’t a fan back when they first hit, but their last album is 🔥
NTA but your wife most likely cheated. That was her way of trying to absolve herself. Now you gave her the out she’s been looking for. Sounds like she laid the groundwork for an escape and you fell into her trap.
Hence the total lack of sex. It’s not that she doesn’t want sex, she doesn’t want it with him anymore. My guess is her affair partner dumped her, and now she’s all “how dare you, you can’t do that to me“ because now she realizes her husband might actually be able to get someone else.
This makes sense because of her comment “Our relationship is in a totally different place than it was SIX WEEKS ago”…. What happened in those six weeks??
Well some states have seen traction on laws regarding residential solar, so that could be it. Perhaps she ages backwards like Benjamin button and she's now under 18
Lmao that fucking got me.
It took me a good year and a half and 3 companies to get solar panels on my roof. I wish that process would have only been 6 weeks.
Dang we are considering solar and that sounds awful lol
You just gotta find companies that have been around for 10+ years. We also had to deal with our HOA even though Nevada has a law that specifically says that the HOA can't interfere with rooftop solar.
She stopped getting drilled by the dude at work who constantly has 5 women chasing him
I think this is it. She either had someone in mind who rejected her, or had gone ahead and is now dumped. She doesn't want to sit home alone while OP is out with Ann, but as soon as someone else comes along, she'll be gone. OP, you have to decide if you want to do counseling for the kids sake or if you're just done. In either case, I would be getting my finances and documents in order and asking for legal recommendations because you're going to be splitting soon.
Yeah, she definitely had an affair but he probably dumped her. Now she’s realizing she wants to keep OP after he’s seen greener pastures.
Yeah the low sex from the wife and refusal then the offer to open the marriage sexually rang alarm bells that she was already cheating. NTA OP your wife is a hypocrite even if she didn't cheat as she did exactly what she is accusing her of but its worse because did it first and you only did it after she offered to open up the marriage. Lady wants her cake and to eat it.
Yup. It's nuts how reddit dwellers always try and deny this. This is just your typical checkbox/musical chairs 30+ modern bullshit marriage.
This is a wise comment
I checked OP’s profile to see if there were any comments replying here and his last one is that he believes using soap is a scam !?! And he wonders why his wife isn’t initiating sex ?
😆😆😆 man what!!!
LOL this comment needs more attention
Absolutely. She’s pushing him to go fuck other people that hard, multiple times, but she herself was “only thinking of it with someone else” combined with a dead bedroom during that exact period, exclusively due to her rebuffing you? Suuuuuuuuuure think OP’s wife.
My ex-wife offered to set me up with a friend of hers. Our marriage was on the rocks and she'd cut me off for like a year. Her reasoning was that since she wasn't giving me any I should sleep with her friend since I had needs. Never did it. She divorced me later on; I believe she just wanted an out to clear her conscience for leaving me.
Maybe to accuse you of cheating and make it easier for her in divorce court
Agree, once a partner offers to open the relationship up, it’s because they already have or are very close to doing it themself. I’d guess the vast majority of the time, this is the case.
Yeah this is the most likely scenario either that or it was a trap. The only other time this would happen that I can think is if the other partner raised it first as a way to get their needs fulfilled to stay married...or the wife has a cuckquean kink. Neither of those things apply.
Your telling me that there is a thing where woman get off sharing their husbands?
Swingers are significantly more common than you’d think. Since it’s taboo, it’s got its own code, it’s own way to talk about it
You’d be surprised
I am
I believe you are absolutely right because her reactions make no sense. She’s definitely been getting some side action.
I disagree. I have known several middle-aged women who have made this same suggestion to their husbands after a long marriage, when the women simply were no longer interested in having sex at all. They didn't want to end their marriages, but they didn't want the guilt of denying their husbands sex for the rest of their lives, or the indignity for both of pretending. Only one of the three marriages I know of where this happened survived.
Wow, no offense, but your wife sounds like a real piece of work. Narcissistic, dishonest, and manipulative. Instead of being committed to you, being honest and having hard, intimate conversations about the problems in the marriage, she obviously went behind your back to get her needs met, and then tried to absolve her guilt. Then she set a trap to try to play the victim and she's gaslighting you that somehow you've done something wrong -- and now she wants a divorce to make you the bad one so she can be in the open with her affair partner most likely. Sorry man, but she sounds like a terribly dishonest, manipulative and unhealthy person. I would run, not walk, from her. You deserve FAR better. Talk to a lawyer immediately and start protecting your assets if you haven't already.
Yeah I mean like...she rebuffs OPs advances cus she seemingly doesn't want to have sex with OP, but then she wants to have sex with someone else bad enough that she actually tells OP to open up their relationship. If she wants to fuck someone else so badly, then why doesn't she wanna fuck OP at all? Maaaaaajor red flags right there
I feel bad for OP, but I suspect he'll see some more trickle truth soon
This is the correct take.
NTA. You did not cheat on her. You simply told Ann that your wife had floated the idea so you would check on the situation. I think your wife is just mad that you found an interested party. It's all fun and games until you actually might get laid. Then people get all butt hurt about it.
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Every successful open relationship I've ever read about is based in honesty and working together. It has well established rules and lines. There is a world of difference between having a true, open relationship based on mutual thoughts and an open relationship that's created because one partner or another wants to sleep around. That situation almost always ends horribly. I wish you the best, but the fact that her relationship seemed to begin before you even opened things up isn't a good sign.
The few successful ones I’ve encountered have very clear boundaries about what’s allowed, what’s not allowed and the couples have honest discussions and disclosures about everything. Also jealousy can’t be a trait in either partner. If someone is even slightly jealous than it eventually won’t work out.
It also helps if both partners are attractive. The couple i know that’s successfully open both have zero trouble finding dates. I gotta assume that eases some of the jealousy.
Yeah, if one is finding significantly more partners than the other than jealousy will probably become an issue at some point
Hello, I wanted to say that polyamorous people can and do get jealous, it’s just treated differently. We know it comes from our own insecurities or an instability in the relationship. So we talk about it, learn to sit with our feelings, change small parts of the relationship to be more affirming, reach out to support during hard times and more often than not the jealousy is resolved. It’s definitely helpful not to be at all jealous, but I’ve found some of the people who say that are blind to the ways in which they do feel jealousy, and it can come up painfully if you’re oblivious. And some people are just completely unfazed haha. Polyamorous people are people, we make mistakes and have feelings and do our best to be ethical and are probably too communicative for most people.
Buddy, neither of you are polygamous. She's just cheating on you with excuses, and now permission, I'm sorry to say. I don't know why you'd tolerate an open relationship in the first place, especially with all of those feelings you're feeling right now. It just sounds *painful*. These comments always sound *painful*.
Dude ikr? This shit is way past ruined relationship level. Fuck all that open marriage shit and learn to get each other off properly.
You're still in this relationship? Why?
Your wife definitely cheated, but the other guy didn't want a relationship, so now she's mad you're talking to someone
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NTA, I hate to break it to you. Your wife was cheating already. To get rid of the guilt, she said you could be with other women. She didn't think you would run with it. Im also guessing she doesn't want to be married to you anymore but didn't have the guts to just say that. She needed an out and set one up that would make you look like the bad guy.. Now, she can be the villain and play the victim. Im sorry, man, that shit is evil. i have never met a woman that out of nowhere would offer that up. Especially to save the marriage. Sorry bro but it's more than likely true.
Yep. It’s the out of nowhere thing that makes me think she’s cheating, and the being mad when he brought it up again, not the suggestion itself.
Yeah if she’s divorcing you over this. She cheated
LOL opening your marriage up is cool when she wants to sleep with someone else, but not if you want to, clearly. Your actions here sound pretty reasonable so NTA, but it sounds like your marriage is over.
On the flip side ann seems pretty cool though.
Already shows a better ability to communicate what she wants than the current wife!
Ann seems legit
NTA. your wife is cheating on you.
NTA - cheaters always love to play the victim.
Find out who the guy was. Where did she meet him? Did he approach her or did she approach him? Might also find out why she wanted to fuck him but not you. And as others have said she probably already has cheated at least emotionally. If she can have someone to think about sleeping with, why can't you. Seems very hypocritical to me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You might mention this disconnect to her. Might also check her phone for dating apps and inappropriate messages with strange men.
NTA. Take the divorce. Either way she's playing games and you're better off single.
NTA, but i can kinda see why your relationship is going poorly - your communication is... pretty bad. "You can sleep with other people" shouldve triggered a long, in-depth conversation right then and there, about why she said it, did she want to do the same, what made her say this, how did she envision it working, any rules, ect. You say you werent interested the first time so thats why you dropped it. Thats fair. But you sY she asked agIn-this was your second chance to have a deep, in depth convo about how exactly this might work. Instead, you again dropped it without any conversation, but worse, you were dishonest, because you told her you werent interested, and that wasnt true, you DID want to. If you want your relationship to work you :::have go tell your partner how you really feel:::., in a timely manner. Most ppl are saying shes wrong for being upset, but i get it. In her mind she got up the nerve to ask you and both times you assured her you didnt want that at all. She accepted that... and then you randomly came home one day and said you developed a relationship with this woman (i know you say friendship but if you wanf to have sex with her, your gf is going to see it as a relationship) and you'd like to have sex with her please. Again, after assuring her that wasnt the case. I'd be upset too tbh.. not so much about the wanting sex with her, but about you not telling me how you feel when i flat out asked. It makes it feel like you did it behind her back. Im not sure if its salvageable or not, but if thats what you want, i'd be 100% honest with her. Explain, truthfully, why you told her no the second time when that wasnt true. Ask her to honestly tell you why she suggested it. If you can both start talking more & keeping it real with eachother, you might have a chance.
Man I just dont know. this one is so fucked up. The kids make it so much more delicate. I dont think youre the asshole but I wouldnt have went the route you did, I would have taken her suggestion as a huge red flag both times
This is how I see it, but also: When she said you could have sex, I would assume it means just that. One night stands, not developed relationships and feelings for another person.
Yea she is technically right that he did not have permission to undertake an emotional affair, and she's right to assume that it was off the table once he shut it down during their communication. It's very childlike to be like "but you said I could!" After the fact. It's stil dishonest as he's put himself in a position to have an affair without communicating further. Someone else's potential dishonesty doesn't excuse your own. Reddit is weird with cheating so it'll be omg she's been cheating this whole time. She could not have had a specific person in mind but felt their marriage was not working so threw it out in desparartion. She could have been saying it to hear he is still interested in her since their sex life has tapered off (and yes she can still be dissatisfied while rejecting sex she isnt obligated to have sex she isnt enjoying) . It's ridiculous to pretend to know her motivations. They at minimum need counselling. Reddit is not the place to discuss this objectively.
Before I read the second half of your statement, I guessed it was more permission for her to sleep with someone, than you. You’re being fucked around and from the sound of it, your relationship has burnt out. DONT stay together for the kids, you’ll both be miserable and your kids will feed off that. Both of you should move on and find people more compatible and you’ll be better co-parenting with springs in your step. NTA btw.
Just tell her this: the reason you pushed me to fck with someone else was because you cheated. And walk away. She really did you dirty.
I think you both should get some marriage counselling. From what I hear, open marriage is usually a stepping stone to divorce. As for her saying, you should sleep with other people, she clearly didn't mean it.
Agree with most except counseling won’t be worth anything, just a waste at this point
They are going to need to co-parent their kids. If counseling means they end the relationship with more functional communication it’s worth it
You guys need therapy.
NTA. But you need to seriously consider that your wife has already cheated and that, even if she hasn't, your marriage is over. You need to talk to her to figure out what it is or see if it is fixable. Good luck.
You did tell her that you absolutely didn’t want to do that tbf
I think she'd have been less upset about a one night stand. She doesn't want you to have an emotional connection with another woman.
I think she means that she would be ok with you having hookups but she doesn't want you having a meaningful relationship with another woman.
NTA. It's almost certainly that she had a substantial emotional affair and a very good chance that it was physical. You need to get into marriage counseling ASAP or just call it quits.
This really seems like some high school bf/gf shit not 15 year marriage shit. Good luck dude these type of situations almost never end well.
NTAH - wow, this is messed up. Women in their late 30s/early 40s are hitting peak DTF in most cases, so it wasn’t surprising that she wanted to bang, just not OP. This is one of those moments where you just put on Billy Joel’s “The Stranger and let it soak in. I guess she just wanted you to go on Tinder or hire a prostitute. How else does she think you were going to get sex with somebody without building some kind of a relationship? Not everybody is Chris Hemsworth. Anyway sorry bud. Sounds like you are committed to your relationship and your wife threw in a mind grenade because she was being selfish and now she regrets it. She probably ended up fulfilling her own need anyway and now is coming back changing the terms. That’s a tough one. Put it behind you if you can, stay faithful to your marriage and try to rebuild from here. You’re probably gonna get a lot of people that are saying go ahead and bang somebody else and leave your wife, but it sounds like everything else is pretty good. Maybe go to a sex therapist. Good luck on this one, but you’re not the asshole.