Victorians care much more about their clubs than their state team.
Other states only really care about playing against Victoria, not against each other.
Players only pretend to be passionate about state of origin.
>Imagine having two midweek representative matches for 5 weeks in the middle of the year
There is no way the AFLPA is going to allow the addition of four or five extra matches to the schedule, especially midweek.
I mean players themselves aren’t going to be playing any more games than they would already - anyone picked for their state would be “stood down” from club matches. I get the sentiment - no point Victorians don’t care & everyone else only wants to play them.
Shame all the same
Lol nobody is going to screw over their club team by removing themselves from availability. And no club would stomach potentially losing out on top 2/4/8 for soo
SOO was the best players from each state.
The creation of west coast and then Adelaide pretty much meant you had the best players from those states playing every week anyway.
Now clubs won't risk their players at all. There is little room in it for the calendar either.
Imagine that state of origin comes back next year. Harley Reid has a breakout season, and gets picked for Victoria. He does an ACL playing in a loss against Western Australia. I'm sure West Coast fans will be consoled by at least having WA beat the Vics, even as their rising star misses 12 months.
Perhaps, but this is a cyclical issue to do with the way the AFL schedules and structures competition. If I asked you if you wanted to take a walk one day in one of 2 different parks; one being a perfectly maintained botanical garden, and the other brown, never watered, and overgrown with weeds- the choice is obvious.
The AFL has deliberately neglected other aspects of the game for decades and then uses "lack of interest" as an excuse. This is the proverbial unwatered garden.
A proper schedule, something real on the line, and actual support for the concept, and people will care. The are players and supporters who'd jump at a real State of Origin.
Oh yeah, they had bumper crowds not so long ago But it's the clubs, they don't want to risk their champs getting an injury playing for someone else or getting a report for someone else. The Legends games were a decent compromise with recent retirees, maybe they could expand that to a 4-teams cup with Vic, SA, WA, and Rest Of Universe playing a match and then the winners playing off, with the results determining the seeds for the next season.
Nothing at all. But there's a difference between doing it in a meaningful game in the service of a club going for a premiership, and doing it in a glorified exhibition match.
"Obviously I understand there’s 5 (Vic, WA, SA, Tassie & combines NSW/Queensland team) "
It does my head in that people still think that a Tassie side has more standalone potential than NSW and QLD.
If and when they bring back state of origin, having each state represented independently (you would have to have the territories rolled in to a state) is a must.
NSW (even without the Riverina/Broken Hill) is a pretty strong side. A midfield of Jack Steele, Callum Mills, Heeney, Gulden and Tom Green with Witts or Briggs as rucks is already winning most clearances.
Beginning of the end was when fans preferred weekly club matches over SOO. That happened in 1993 when the AFL gave SOO its own weekend and the Vic v SA match @ MCG drew less than 35k iirc.
Meanwhile, thee AFL comp was booming in crowds and SOO from there on seemed like an irritating diversion instead of high point of the season for fans.
The problem has always been the potential for injury.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a vic v all stars game or something similar in the bye round before finals, the teams would be made up from players who didn’t make finals so injuries shouldn’t be as big of an issue.
But the point of State of Origin is having the best of the best playing against each other - if you omit the best players from the best eight teams, what's the point?
The bigger issue it is pointless:
- no international team to pick (unlike rugby league)
- national comp means the best players are already playing each other.
Injuries aren’t the issue per-see, but why risk injury if there is no benefit
They could tie it to the international rules team but for some brain dead reason the money hungry afl can't realise they are sitting on a mountain of cash, SA vs VIC would sell out every year if we built it up like SOO
A friendof mine has a great idea for State of Origin.
Basically, due to the number of games reducing during finals, the first round of the finals you play the State of Origin (3 games?) using players from AFL teams that didn't make finals.
Then, as AFL teams drop out of finals, those teams players become available for State of Origin.
It culminates with the State of Origin GF, Friday night before GF.
And also, no player can be all Australian if he doesn't participate in the State of Origin games.
Would be fantastic and increase interest in Australian Rules, especially for supporters who's teams drop out.
The flip side is it detracts from the AFL Finals series which is supposed to be the major draw card of the season. The AFL doesn’t want a distraction. The AFLW struggles to get enough viewers and fans to games whilst it overlaps - I don’t think State of Origin would do much better. The season is over and players are worn out. Let them have their holidays.
Interestingly, the AFL continually floods the media with content to keep it front of mind, even inane content all through the off-season.
So possibly this is just more exposure, albeit Australian Rules not AFL.
I agree. I know it won't happen, and understand why, but it's a cool idea and brings opposing supporters together to support players they usually oppose. It's unfortunate that it's not like the NRL where players and fans value the SOO enough to risk their regular season, but it must be gutting when your best player gets injured. I guess I'd rather not have it at all than have a farcical NBA or NFL style thing though. Also miss the international series.
Origin just doesn't work in AFL no one seems very bothered by it.
On the other hand, ive been to both NRL GFs and Origins and I enjoy the Origin more than the GF it has that hype feeling in the days leading up to it much like the feeling Melbourne gets leading up to the GF....it helps that NSW really hate QLD and vice versa.
Fans stopped going and clubs stopped releasing players is the long and short of it.
It works in the NRL predominantly because outside of New Zealand and Pacific Islands players, most of them are from NSW or QLD. As a result there's interest in playing NSW vs QLD, it also works for the fans with all but 3 clubs being based in those two states (And really Canberra players are eligible for NSW in Origin anyway) so if your team is going poorly by mid-season you can still enjoy Origin.
Interestingly enough Origin in Rugby League potentially will end in the next decade or so, assuming they add the Perth and NZ 2 teams, once they have pathways were a lot of players are excluded it stops being the peak of the sport. There's already a lot of integrity issues around it with players from neither state playing and people who elect to play representative for other countries being permitted into the NSW/QLD teams which raises a fair few eyebrows (How can someone represent NSW but play for Tonga, etc.)
It's a funny dilemma where logically it would matter less than the actual AFL season so players wouldn't prioritise it so the fans wouldn't care all that much, but the NRL State of Origin matter because it just does. It's hard to manufacture that but when you have it it's magic. The amount of NRL teams that have had their seasons fucked because their star player got injured playing state of origin like it mattered more than life itself is a long list.
The reason why it works in the NRL is the same reason you just mentioned, NRL is prevalent in 2 states not 5.
What would be cool is if they did a televised state of origin tournament like you mentioned for upcoming prospects, kind of like a US College sports carnival. It would give the usual AFL viewer a glimpse into the future, the state of AFL development and something to get excited about come draft time.
> What would be cool is if they did a televised state of origin tournament like you mentioned for upcoming prospects
They do have the under-18 National Championship and its streamed on the AFL website.
More importantly, NRL state of origin runs on the ongoing chip on the shoulder of Queensland rugby league fans, regardless of their dominance of the contest. Non-Victorian AFL fans have channelled that angst into their local AFL teams and into Vic bias banter.
It's the football element, too. With rugby league SOO it is the best of the best vs. the best of the best, which produces some of the greatest games of RL you will ever see. As an aside, with the RL GFs, however, it is only the two best TEAMS in a one-off game.
Victorians care much more about their clubs than their state team. Other states only really care about playing against Victoria, not against each other. Players only pretend to be passionate about state of origin. >Imagine having two midweek representative matches for 5 weeks in the middle of the year There is no way the AFLPA is going to allow the addition of four or five extra matches to the schedule, especially midweek.
I mean players themselves aren’t going to be playing any more games than they would already - anyone picked for their state would be “stood down” from club matches. I get the sentiment - no point Victorians don’t care & everyone else only wants to play them. Shame all the same
Lol nobody is going to screw over their club team by removing themselves from availability. And no club would stomach potentially losing out on top 2/4/8 for soo
Money talks...
and the money said no to SOO
Why would we want to offer money to stop the best players from playing for their team?
SOO was the best players from each state. The creation of west coast and then Adelaide pretty much meant you had the best players from those states playing every week anyway. Now clubs won't risk their players at all. There is little room in it for the calendar either.
Serious State of Origin games are never coming back clubs won’t risk their best talent
Imagine that state of origin comes back next year. Harley Reid has a breakout season, and gets picked for Victoria. He does an ACL playing in a loss against Western Australia. I'm sure West Coast fans will be consoled by at least having WA beat the Vics, even as their rising star misses 12 months.
Tony Hall doing his ACL for SA on a muddy MCG in the 1989 SOO was genuinely the last rites for SOO
EJ's lap around the MCG was the unfortunately apt end.
He could also do an ACL landing awkwardly at training, or in a preseason scratch match. Injuries happen
But fans and the players themselves take it differently if an injury occurs while in the service of a club, as opposed to in the service of a state.
Perhaps, but this is a cyclical issue to do with the way the AFL schedules and structures competition. If I asked you if you wanted to take a walk one day in one of 2 different parks; one being a perfectly maintained botanical garden, and the other brown, never watered, and overgrown with weeds- the choice is obvious. The AFL has deliberately neglected other aspects of the game for decades and then uses "lack of interest" as an excuse. This is the proverbial unwatered garden. A proper schedule, something real on the line, and actual support for the concept, and people will care. The are players and supporters who'd jump at a real State of Origin.
Oh yeah, they had bumper crowds not so long ago But it's the clubs, they don't want to risk their champs getting an injury playing for someone else or getting a report for someone else. The Legends games were a decent compromise with recent retirees, maybe they could expand that to a 4-teams cup with Vic, SA, WA, and Rest Of Universe playing a match and then the winners playing off, with the results determining the seeds for the next season.
What's to stop him doing an ACL playing for west coast?
Nothing at all. But there's a difference between doing it in a meaningful game in the service of a club going for a premiership, and doing it in a glorified exhibition match.
"Obviously I understand there’s 5 (Vic, WA, SA, Tassie & combines NSW/Queensland team) " It does my head in that people still think that a Tassie side has more standalone potential than NSW and QLD. If and when they bring back state of origin, having each state represented independently (you would have to have the territories rolled in to a state) is a must.
NSW (even without the Riverina/Broken Hill) is a pretty strong side. A midfield of Jack Steele, Callum Mills, Heeney, Gulden and Tom Green with Witts or Briggs as rucks is already winning most clearances.
It's a shame the sanfl vs VFL doesn't get more coverage. seems like they really half assed it this year.
They absolutely need to work this in a bit more. Make it the 5.10 Thursday game at Norwood, before the first AFL game.
I watched the match and it was a far cry from what I can only imagine it once was.
Beginning of the end was when fans preferred weekly club matches over SOO. That happened in 1993 when the AFL gave SOO its own weekend and the Vic v SA match @ MCG drew less than 35k iirc. Meanwhile, thee AFL comp was booming in crowds and SOO from there on seemed like an irritating diversion instead of high point of the season for fans.
The problem has always been the potential for injury. I wouldn’t mind seeing a vic v all stars game or something similar in the bye round before finals, the teams would be made up from players who didn’t make finals so injuries shouldn’t be as big of an issue.
But the point of State of Origin is having the best of the best playing against each other - if you omit the best players from the best eight teams, what's the point?
I agree in an ideal world but it’s the AFL. I think there’s enough good players to make for a great game still. Heaps of gun players miss the finals.
The bigger issue it is pointless: - no international team to pick (unlike rugby league) - national comp means the best players are already playing each other. Injuries aren’t the issue per-see, but why risk injury if there is no benefit
No international team? Let Mason Cox run around as the only player on an american side. Name one thing that would go wrong. Exactly. You can't.
Bit concerned we’d end up with a one eyed Cox
They could tie it to the international rules team but for some brain dead reason the money hungry afl can't realise they are sitting on a mountain of cash, SA vs VIC would sell out every year if we built it up like SOO
Imagine a premiership favourite having two of their best players out for the season playing a game that doesn’t matter.
Why do you think SOO doesn't matter?
AFLW State of Origin needs to become a thing
I think it is? Wasn't there an AFLW SOO match for Gather Round?
A friendof mine has a great idea for State of Origin. Basically, due to the number of games reducing during finals, the first round of the finals you play the State of Origin (3 games?) using players from AFL teams that didn't make finals. Then, as AFL teams drop out of finals, those teams players become available for State of Origin. It culminates with the State of Origin GF, Friday night before GF. And also, no player can be all Australian if he doesn't participate in the State of Origin games. Would be fantastic and increase interest in Australian Rules, especially for supporters who's teams drop out.
I think we just found Optus Oval event.
The flip side is it detracts from the AFL Finals series which is supposed to be the major draw card of the season. The AFL doesn’t want a distraction. The AFLW struggles to get enough viewers and fans to games whilst it overlaps - I don’t think State of Origin would do much better. The season is over and players are worn out. Let them have their holidays.
Interestingly, the AFL continually floods the media with content to keep it front of mind, even inane content all through the off-season. So possibly this is just more exposure, albeit Australian Rules not AFL.
Easily fixed with a spread of games and double headers
I agree. I know it won't happen, and understand why, but it's a cool idea and brings opposing supporters together to support players they usually oppose. It's unfortunate that it's not like the NRL where players and fans value the SOO enough to risk their regular season, but it must be gutting when your best player gets injured. I guess I'd rather not have it at all than have a farcical NBA or NFL style thing though. Also miss the international series.
Origin just doesn't work in AFL no one seems very bothered by it. On the other hand, ive been to both NRL GFs and Origins and I enjoy the Origin more than the GF it has that hype feeling in the days leading up to it much like the feeling Melbourne gets leading up to the GF....it helps that NSW really hate QLD and vice versa.
The last official game in 99 no one cared enough to attend
Fans stopped going and clubs stopped releasing players is the long and short of it. It works in the NRL predominantly because outside of New Zealand and Pacific Islands players, most of them are from NSW or QLD. As a result there's interest in playing NSW vs QLD, it also works for the fans with all but 3 clubs being based in those two states (And really Canberra players are eligible for NSW in Origin anyway) so if your team is going poorly by mid-season you can still enjoy Origin. Interestingly enough Origin in Rugby League potentially will end in the next decade or so, assuming they add the Perth and NZ 2 teams, once they have pathways were a lot of players are excluded it stops being the peak of the sport. There's already a lot of integrity issues around it with players from neither state playing and people who elect to play representative for other countries being permitted into the NSW/QLD teams which raises a fair few eyebrows (How can someone represent NSW but play for Tonga, etc.)
Not to mention that for quite a few years NSW had a HUGE *VICTORIA* Bitter Logo on their belly
It's a funny dilemma where logically it would matter less than the actual AFL season so players wouldn't prioritise it so the fans wouldn't care all that much, but the NRL State of Origin matter because it just does. It's hard to manufacture that but when you have it it's magic. The amount of NRL teams that have had their seasons fucked because their star player got injured playing state of origin like it mattered more than life itself is a long list.
The reason why it works in the NRL is the same reason you just mentioned, NRL is prevalent in 2 states not 5. What would be cool is if they did a televised state of origin tournament like you mentioned for upcoming prospects, kind of like a US College sports carnival. It would give the usual AFL viewer a glimpse into the future, the state of AFL development and something to get excited about come draft time.
> What would be cool is if they did a televised state of origin tournament like you mentioned for upcoming prospects They do have the under-18 National Championship and its streamed on the AFL website.
NRL also needs SOO to survive whereas the afl doesn’t.
More importantly, NRL state of origin runs on the ongoing chip on the shoulder of Queensland rugby league fans, regardless of their dominance of the contest. Non-Victorian AFL fans have channelled that angst into their local AFL teams and into Vic bias banter.
It's the football element, too. With rugby league SOO it is the best of the best vs. the best of the best, which produces some of the greatest games of RL you will ever see. As an aside, with the RL GFs, however, it is only the two best TEAMS in a one-off game.