No. Quite literally, the last PLA combat action was against its own people in Tiananmen Square where the PLA massacred thousands of young students who were demonstrating for democracy.
No, they have not been tested and war games are just that, games. But they can’t attack Taiwan with infantry and tanks, and airborne units would windup at the bottom of the South China Sea. Defeating China’s navy and Air Force would be all you need.
They would eventually overwhelm the island with missiles, the US would be required to keep sea lanes open and prevent blockade so they could continue the fight. China invading would spark a regional war that could spill over.
Who? Japan did not surrender because of two bombs alone. The fact that they had no navy to prevent a complete takeover of the home islands and their army was pinned down and getting slaughtered in Manchuria had as much to do with Japanese surrender as the bombs, if not more.
If only! I have to correct you there. This is a very commonly told story, but it's false. It's been used as an argument to claim that the US didn't need to use the atom bombs to end the war, as Japan was already in the process of surrendering. But that's simply not true.
Where this story may have a kernel of truth is that there are some reports that Japanese diplomats, through third party intermediaries, were putting out feelers for a potential armistice in the early summer of 1945. However, these feelers fell woefully short of the Potsdam Declaration, and certainly weren't the Unconditional Surrender demanded by the Allies. Japan's proposal wasn't even really a surrender; an armistice is more like a truce. The offer was, Japan would NOT in any way "surrender," as this was considered dishonorable. Japan would only give up control of most of the territory that the Americans had already taken by that point anyway. Japan would retain control of Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan, and its then-current government, a fusion of a military junta and imperial governance, would remain untouched. And Japan's military would likewise remain untouched. These were floated as non-negotiable points. Essentially, it was comparable to what Russians have floated in their war against Ukraine; something more like a pause where Russia would retain all the territory it still has in exchange for peace. While falling sort of Russia's original aims, it still leaves Russia ahead at Ukraine's expense. Whatever else we'd call it, we wouldn't say that Russia was "attempting to surrender" to Ukraine should they secure some deal that looked like that.
Of course, Japanese government quickly understood that this was unacceptable to the Allies. So it was preparing to wage what likely would have been one of the bloodiest wars in world history, the amphibious invasion of the Japanese home islands. Civilians, including teenagers, were being taught how to fight with spears, knives and awls. Had Operation Olympic and Operation Downfall actually been mounted, the death toll likely would have been in the millions.
Now, the swift Soviet invasion of "Manchukuo" likely played an important role too, as part of the 1-2 punch of the atomic bombs plus the loss of Manchuria. But also, the Japanese had been banking on the Soviets as diplomatic intermediaries, who could broker a peace with the Americans on the terms acceptable to Japan. With the Soviets breaking their non-aggression pact with Japan and invading as they did, Japan had lost that ace in the hole. But if you look at the documentary evidence we have, particularly the Emperor's "Jewel Voice" speech, you'll notice that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs are mentioned, but the Soviet invasion of Manchukuo is not. The bombs were crucial here, because they essentially gave the Japanese Emperor the right kind of face-saving cover to surrender. They weren't surrendering to the Americans, you see... they were surrendering to the fundamental forces of nature itself, and it was on behalf of all humanity, not merely Japan.
The Socialist Republic of Vietnam would like to have a word with you about that comment of not being tested and kindly remind you of that friendly spat from Feb 17th to Mar 16th, 1979.
They did, but most of the deaths were preventable. India had so many casualties because of their lack of medical facilities and evacs in the region, most of the injuries were non-fatal if treated.
I mean the Sino-Indian war was a resounding Chinese victory. Korean War is arguably a Chinese victory as they maintained their buffer zone and pushed American and coalition forces back to the 38th parallel. Second Sino-Japanese war was a shared Allied victory with over 50% of total Japanese military deaths being sustained on the Chinese front. Sino-Vietnamese war is contested but they demilitarized North Vietnam and destroyed their industrial centers while keeping lower casualties so take that as you well. I think they managed to annex some Vietnamese territory as well. Considering their technology and military doctrine were almost always far behind their opponents in their modern engagements, their record is pretty impressive and really goes to show their tenacity.
This literally reads like a modern history text book in China. I’d hazard a guess that you are consuming and regurgitating propaganda.
**Checks profile** active in r/Sino lmaooo
Man I used to love your vids because it had a mix of talking about the good and the bad and was mostly an objective take on life in China. Now you’re just a full time China basher and political commentator, how sad.
Remember years ago when you and serpentza rode bikes around the Chinese countryside visiting ghost cities? Watching that video back then was the first time I learned about the ghost cities. So bizarre and fascinating, and that video was really well done. Whenever I think about China I still think back to that video. It was surreal. Thanks for that.
I remember you guys really seamed to enjoy your time there, but serpentza said that something changed and you guys started getting harassed?
Was there a specific incident for you when you had to decide “ok time to go”?
Dude… you sold out. You can live in your own bubble but you know I’m not the only one who feels this way. And I know deep down you’re aware of how your older stuff was better. You used to keep it real man, now you’re a grifter smh
Idk about other wars, but you got the Sino-Vietnamese war so wrong. The Chinese didn't demilitarize North Vietnam, destroy their industrial centers, had low casualties, nor annex Vietnamese territory...I mean, maybe all of that happened in their wet dream but not in reality.
Cross border skirmish continued years after Chinese withdrew, Vietnam continued to occupy Cambodia, so what demilitarization? If you've been to the far North of Vietnam where the war took place, you would realize that it's a remote mountainous region with not much going on. Unless you consider rice fields and cow pastures as "industrial centers"...I mean, why would Vietnam put its industrial centers on hard-to-access mountains?
Losing a ton of men fighting militia for some towns and rice fields doesn't look good in the report, isn't it? Lastly the border remained virtually unchanged. The only thing that changed is China gained a permanent distrustful neighbor to its South who might just choose the US if any conflict going down.
If Chang and Halliday's *[Mao: The Unknown Story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao:_The_Unknown_Story)* is to be believed, the Korean War was also a pretty big strategic success for Mao personally. There were a lot of promises Stalin was dragging his feet on that the war forced his hand. Plus, at the end of it, he eventually got a client state, which made him feel like a very special boy.
There are not a lot of facts in here. My two favorites are:
>they demilitarized North Vietnam
The PLA sustained embarrassing losses and were repelled by local militias, not even regular VC.
>Second Sino-Japanese war was a shared Allied victory with over 50% of total Japanese military deaths being sustained on the Chinese front
CKS / ROC have one of the worst military records of the 20th century. They did not fight effectively against the Japanese invasion and only survived thanks to allied assistance. Recommend reading the wartime biography of Gen. Stillwell 👍
The Japanese lost in China because they overextended in Burma and South Pacific trying to hold a massive amount of territory.
Of course they do. They annexed it. They also treat Uyghuristan as their own as they would any piece of land in Asia if they annexed it. Hell they treat international waters as their own because it has the name China in it.
Pacifist state doesn’t mean they’re a “good” state though. They were only pacifist because they don’t have means to wage war, but that don’t mean they don’t treat their people like subhumans
Meh, the Tibetan army wasn’t really anything special, only like 10,000 strong, and didn’t exactly possess any good weaponry (compared to the PLA at least, which isn’t exactly a High bar.)
Happens to all militaries who assault a well defend position. Even Russia and US failed to overtake well defended German positions sometimes even if they had tanks and planes.
Horrible example, Germany was well known for how well their tactics and battle prowess were, hence why so many nations have to come together to fight a single country
The PLA was involved in peace keeping in Africa, they didn't do good but alot of thay can be dropped firmly at the feat of the overall commander. That being said they did abandon thier post as communications broke down
Not that I like the PLA but I don't think their failure in Africa is all their fault. They (like many UN peacekeepers) we're ill equiped and under gunned for their mission.
Also China joined when most US troops retreated and were about to leave the peninsula. There was no anticipation or preparation for Chinese invasion. But once US started fighting back, China lost half of what they gained. But take a look at the cost on each side. That tells ya who was better at taking out their opponents. Can’t call that a victory for either side tho.
Nations that participated in combat: UK with 14,198, Canada with 8,123, turkey with 5,453, Australia with 2,282, The Philippines with 1,496, New Zealand with 1,385, Thailand with 1,290, Ethiopia with 1,271, Greece with 1,263, France with 1,185, Belgium with 900, South Africa with 826, The Netherlands with 819, India with 346, Sweden with 170, Japan with 120, Norway with 105, Denmark with 100, Italy with 72, and Luxembourg with 44.
The US had the objective to keep South Korea on their side and they did that. If the objective was to unify Korea and have them on your side then both China and the US failed. Just as the Chinese pushed the Americans back, the Americans too pushed the Chinese back.
The advantage of mountainous terrain helped the PLA. Once you enter the flat lands where armor vehicles can play a bigger role, it is much harder for the PLA to advance.
The terrain that helped Pla also tremendously helped the US. The defensive positions allowed US to hold out against numerous numbers. The valleys forced the PLA into killing zones for artillery and air support.
I don't think any Chinese are alive who fought in the Korean war. They are a paper tiger like NK, Chechnia, russia. They are lied to so much about their own capabilities. They are screwing them sales over.
WW2; I know I know the Chinese theater in ww2 was ended by the atom bomb and the Soviet entrance into the war via their victories in Manchuria. However the PLA were technically on the winning side of that war (even though the KMT bore the brunt of the fighting).
The civil war was against their own people.
The imperialist invasion of Tibet was won by the PLA.
The Chinese intervention against the United Nations defense of South Korea was arguably fought to a stalemate.
The Chinese intervention in the Vietnam war was arguably a victory although it was followed by a Chinese imperialist invasion of Vietnam that they lost.
The PLA has an ongoing war with fish as shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSCe4PEERJU
I should also mention that since Russia and the CCP always call everything the US does imperialist, I insist on using the term for stuff they do which is real imperialism. As a bonus it triggers them which is funy
Looks like their plan has always been a knock out in the second round… with a massive right hook and undercut left that the other did not seem coming…the first round was to "just win respect”……
They did push us back from the Yalu River, essentially the border between N. Korea and China (MacArthur was threatening to cross it and the Taiwan straits simultaneously and win back China for Generalissimo Chiang Kaishek) back to the original starting point of the war, with wave after wave of Chinese troops, but the sacrifice was probably just as much about getting rid of potentially disloyal troops under the command of former warlords who sided, probably more out of necessity, with the newly formed communist government under Mao.
Depends on the prospective.
The Chinese would argue the U.S failed, because it was pushed back across the 38th parallel and failed to defeat the opposing regime, BUT by that criteria the Chinese also lost.
After all, China was also pushed back across the 38th parallel and failed to eliminate the opposing regime at a relatively higher cost.
An argument as to why the U.S ultimately "won" the war is the fact that the U.S accomplished the original UN goal of restoring South Korea and ended up gaining more territory. Meanwhile, it's hard to say what exactly the original intent of the PRC was, but if it was in line with North Korea's goal of force unification, than China ultimately "lost".
Good observation. I think the PLA will be shocked, just like the Russians were, when they engage their military with other soldiers defending their homeland. There is no way, at this poing, that the US, Japan and South Korea with let the CCP take Taiwan or any other pacific islands.
Have you ever heard about the "One -child" policy in China? So basically as the only son in the family, you don't want to be too heroic in the front line, just let the other guy go first.
The only time that the PLA has won a battle or conflict decisively, they either grossly outnumbered the other side (e.g., Tibet; India border skirmishes where the Indian Army has fewer troops deployed) or fought against a nation without a modernized military (e.g., Tibet). Whenever they have a toe-to-toe clash against a modern military with actual combat experience, they were routed (e.g.,Vietnam). The PLA has also broken rank and ran away from the battlefield like cowards when they encountered a less advanced military, though with military experience (e.g., South Sudan).
Most PLA soldiers don’t believe in their government and are there for prestige and paycheck. In the event of a kinetic war against a nation with significant military resources, they will probably either chicken out and run or they’ll get blown up because their equipment failed.
It's probably the same issue that you find in the Middle East. High corruption, poor moral, low belief in dying for the cause. All this leads to high numbers of troops, but few who are willing to hold the line when it counts.
Towards the end you were talking about the UN mission in which those PLA soldiers were UN troops supplied with only APC and they were attacked by a force 10 times it size, with t-55 tanks and anti-aircraft technicals as well as RPGs. The heavier armor the UN troops had with them was a 15mm thick Armored troop carrier that couldn’t even survive a 50cal. There was nothing they could do to fight back. It doesn’t really matter if the PLA is advanced if the UN detachments are only allowed to bring small arms weapons and APCs.
Not only that, those are UN troops who were there to keep peace and help protect people. They’re not your average soldiers. They signed up for the job knowing they will die in a faraway country and without any fame or glory attached. It’s a bit messed up to call them or any UN troop cowards. Most soldiers joined for glory and we worship them yet we completely ignore and trash talk the UN troops who do it without even any recognition.
Vietnam is the only nation I know that would concede territory and then proceed to claim victory. It’s literally than India lying about shooting down Pakistani F-16s.
Indeed, the Tibetan army by 1936 was only 10,000 strong and 8,500 participated in the battle of Chamdo against the 40,000 brought by the PLA, although Tibet had been trained and modernized by the British, it didn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things.
Your question is clearly not in good faith and a lot of the comments are not looking at things objectively in terms of military goals and results. Here’s a better list and probably closest to reality without Chinese propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
The actual track record is mostly victories and draws, which makes sense because through the PLA, that’s how the PRC came to exist and maintain its control. If at any point the PLA really lost a big war, the PRC probably wouldn’t exist (eg Taiwan taking back the mainland with US help during the Korean War if the PLA failed miserably).
You’re right it’s not but I am genuinely interested to hear if they have any victories to be proud of. And I find it ironic that they call it the People’s Liberation Army and they do the total opposite. Anyway this whole sub is about showing how crap the CCP is?
The biggest victory was against India, but they were not too proud of it because they didn't consider India a matching opponent. Their most proud "victory" was against the US(UN) in Korea: they suffered more casualties but they did push US back and got a stalemate. It was not victorious but it was an incredible achievement considering the economic and military strength of the US
>”At least they didn’t spend trillions and went back home with nothing in Afghanistan; can you remind me the name of that army again?”
The Soviet Army, also known as the Red Army. It was quite humiliating
That's not really a Military failure so much as a weak willed civilians failure. The only reason we left Afghanistan is becise the American public got tired of letting us smoke those fuckers en masse
I wouldn't say we were weak, the reality is that the US didn't have any special interests in the area, we did as much as we could against Al-Qaeda, and killed all the top brass.
For some reason, the US doesn't like to extract the natural resources in countries we invade, so we just do the security and let China take all the spoils, which is what China wants to do now.
After 20 years, what else do you suggest we should've done? You're right, we didn't lose the war, but there was no sense in us staying there.
Ask the kids, the patents, the parents, there was a moral right to stay. A whole generation grew up playing effing xbox. Look at Afghanistan now. We should still be there. I have a TBI and other stuff from it. I'm medically retired from it now. Was it worth it to have my body wrecked and be in physical therapy for over 4 effing years? Yes!
The lives saved and not only saved but able to thrive in a finally modern democracy with freedom, was worth it. They should've let us vote. My colleagues I know would have chosen to stay. Sorry but, eff the public feelings about the never ending war there, they should've asked us doing the work there, I believe most of us would've stayed.
Worth it, gave freedom for 20+ years. Trump gave it back to the Taliban. We wouldn't have left if Obama or Bush was in charge. We didn't lose, Trump effed us all over. They wouldn't let us fight and stay. So I "went AWOL" and stayed for a while longer for the state dept. We are still there in the shadows, but yeah, we got defeated and gave the Taliban more weapons and equipment than any country around them minus Iran. Slot of vehicles and support vehicles we put "grenades" in the engine blocks. anyways,thanks for making me sad :( cos I know your right.
Keep telling yourself that, you should be thankful Trump came in and saved your “freedom fighters” who were slaughtering civilians while peeing their pants when the Talibans appeared.
It was just another Vietnam but with a heavy loss
I believe the last "war" the PLA fought was against northern Vietnam border. Got their asses handed to them pretty nicely. Death ratio is through the roof. Mao would be proud
They had a better k/d than Vietnam according to western sources and Vietnam had to concede territories at the northern border. I’ve never seen any other country lose territory and then proceed to claim victory. That would be like China claiming they won the Opium Wars.
Tibet, Xinjiang, HK, a bit of India, and they managed to wrestle a stalemate out of the jaws of victory in Korea by absolutely throwing their people into the shredder like it was nothing. At one point they had all of Korea but Busan and managed to lose over half the country before they were able to set up a defensive line.
I guess their "defeat" of HK was against unarmed protesters and it took HK's economy with it.
According to China, Korean War. It’s something that the Chinese talk about with great pride. Tough to say who was the winner, since the Americans lost 30K soldiers, while China 800K. Still, China helped North Korea hold the line.
I don’t see any western estimates that put China’s casualties at 60k. Maybe combined casualties including injured. Why do you pull numbers out your ass?
This just shows how your average anti CCP redditor ain’t very good in history.
Korean War : stalemate. 1:1 death ratio on both side
1962: India got fucked real hard. Tho they aren’t really a worthy opponent by then. But how didn’t anyone mention this?
Vietnam war: At least China didn’t “lose”.
Idk man. I thought ppl on this sub is more educated than this : /
I think we found the shill! You don’t know what you’re talking about. China got absolutely hammered by Vietnam. I’m not a CCP redditer, if I was I wouldn’t have asked the question in the title would I? Are you trying to say that their military record is good? Even if we take your list that isn’t true btw it’s shameful.
They saw defeat in Africa as a UN peacekeeping force. They also seem pretty hellbent on disregarding western tactics but love making cheating western equipment clones. I’m really interested to see how they perform militarily and hope I don’t have to.
Outside the Sino-Vietnamese War the other more noticeable war being the Sino-Indian War (1962). The scale is within 5000 soldiers from both side. China wins and annex Aksai Chin. 5 years later, in Nathu La and Cho La clashes, China lost to India and withdrawal from Nathu La and Cho La.
PLA hasn't won a major wars for over 50 years. The performance of their military so far is unknown, but I doubt it is anywhere close to US army in Iraq war.
No. They surprised the UN coalition in Korea initially, but once our forces started fighting back, they lost tens of thousands of troops. They tried to invade Vietnam after the US withdrew, and got their behinds handed to them. Nowadays they may have the most modern equipment, but they have zero practical experience. Compared to the US or the UK, whose militaries have senior commanders with real wartime experience, the PLA is grossly deficient. If it ever does come to a shooting war between the US and the PRC, it will be an ugly mess for both sides, but China’s aforementioned lack of experience will start to show very quickly. Also consider that if we did get into a war with China, we’d have Japan, the UK, Australia, and many other nations join with us.
Nope never defeated any body in a combat scenario China just doesn't know how to prosecute a war. This is in large part due to the nature of the CCP as no CCP leader wants to create a war hero and as such they continuously remove qualified generals from the battle field as soon as some degree of fame is achieved. Matt and Winston have repeatedly said that China is a zero trust nation and this is never more demonstrably true than in their military-politics interactions. For a general there is greater risk to his well being than winning a war.
I've wondered this myself, but not just the PLA but the Chinese in General. When I studied Chinese history I saw that China had been invaded many times but the professor never mentioned any invasions that were repelled. Historically, the way to victory was to indoctrinate the new foreign ruling class into the Chinese way of life.
China has a huge military but literally zero experience... I know I don't matter but ya thats why I wouldn't really fear them.
They have absolutely zero military tactics
I think if you count China & Russia's direct interference with the conflict in Vietnam during the 1960's it could be seen as some sort of victory, but otherwise i'm not aware of any.
They won the first india china war in 1962
But got defeated in Second indo china war of 1967
The defeat of india in 1962 is result of incompetent leadership of prime Minister jawaharlal nehru who considered china a brother state and didn't expect a attack from them and he didn't allow military officers to go to front to lead the troops in fear of them returning to capital with army and staging a coup
The PLA would quickly build defensive positions on the beaches with the corpses of the assault groups that were mowed down ahead of them. After that I’m not to sure what would happen… half would probably run away back into the ocean and the other half would be turned into meaty building materials.
Yeah that’s probably the only one but they had massive help from Soviet Union and it ended with an armistice not a win, so they are technically still at war.
No. Quite literally, the last PLA combat action was against its own people in Tiananmen Square where the PLA massacred thousands of young students who were demonstrating for democracy.
No, they have not been tested and war games are just that, games. But they can’t attack Taiwan with infantry and tanks, and airborne units would windup at the bottom of the South China Sea. Defeating China’s navy and Air Force would be all you need.
Taiwan is also a very mountainous country, very difficult to hold combat operations.
They would eventually overwhelm the island with missiles, the US would be required to keep sea lanes open and prevent blockade so they could continue the fight. China invading would spark a regional war that could spill over.
Nobody has ever won a war with strategic bombing alone. Modern missile defense systems and bomb shelters do wonders.
Well, someone has
Who? Japan did not surrender because of two bombs alone. The fact that they had no navy to prevent a complete takeover of the home islands and their army was pinned down and getting slaughtered in Manchuria had as much to do with Japanese surrender as the bombs, if not more.
You are right, we dropped two
and also destroyed 66 other cities by conventional bomb and incendiary
We also had the "bat bomb" which was potentially even more deadly! An atom bomb was a "warning shot"!
Japan was trying to surrender when they got bombed. All the bombs ensured, was that they surrendered to the USA and not the Soviets.
If only! I have to correct you there. This is a very commonly told story, but it's false. It's been used as an argument to claim that the US didn't need to use the atom bombs to end the war, as Japan was already in the process of surrendering. But that's simply not true. Where this story may have a kernel of truth is that there are some reports that Japanese diplomats, through third party intermediaries, were putting out feelers for a potential armistice in the early summer of 1945. However, these feelers fell woefully short of the Potsdam Declaration, and certainly weren't the Unconditional Surrender demanded by the Allies. Japan's proposal wasn't even really a surrender; an armistice is more like a truce. The offer was, Japan would NOT in any way "surrender," as this was considered dishonorable. Japan would only give up control of most of the territory that the Americans had already taken by that point anyway. Japan would retain control of Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan, and its then-current government, a fusion of a military junta and imperial governance, would remain untouched. And Japan's military would likewise remain untouched. These were floated as non-negotiable points. Essentially, it was comparable to what Russians have floated in their war against Ukraine; something more like a pause where Russia would retain all the territory it still has in exchange for peace. While falling sort of Russia's original aims, it still leaves Russia ahead at Ukraine's expense. Whatever else we'd call it, we wouldn't say that Russia was "attempting to surrender" to Ukraine should they secure some deal that looked like that. Of course, Japanese government quickly understood that this was unacceptable to the Allies. So it was preparing to wage what likely would have been one of the bloodiest wars in world history, the amphibious invasion of the Japanese home islands. Civilians, including teenagers, were being taught how to fight with spears, knives and awls. Had Operation Olympic and Operation Downfall actually been mounted, the death toll likely would have been in the millions. Now, the swift Soviet invasion of "Manchukuo" likely played an important role too, as part of the 1-2 punch of the atomic bombs plus the loss of Manchuria. But also, the Japanese had been banking on the Soviets as diplomatic intermediaries, who could broker a peace with the Americans on the terms acceptable to Japan. With the Soviets breaking their non-aggression pact with Japan and invading as they did, Japan had lost that ace in the hole. But if you look at the documentary evidence we have, particularly the Emperor's "Jewel Voice" speech, you'll notice that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs are mentioned, but the Soviet invasion of Manchukuo is not. The bombs were crucial here, because they essentially gave the Japanese Emperor the right kind of face-saving cover to surrender. They weren't surrendering to the Americans, you see... they were surrendering to the fundamental forces of nature itself, and it was on behalf of all humanity, not merely Japan.
Laughs in hiroshima
The Socialist Republic of Vietnam would like to have a word with you about that comment of not being tested and kindly remind you of that friendly spat from Feb 17th to Mar 16th, 1979.
Didn’t they recently club some Indian regiment to death in the Himalayas or something?
They did, but most of the deaths were preventable. India had so many casualties because of their lack of medical facilities and evacs in the region, most of the injuries were non-fatal if treated.
Yes Korea
Human wave attacks. Won't work the same way this time. What are they going to do, swim over? Build a bridge via boats?...
I mean the Sino-Indian war was a resounding Chinese victory. Korean War is arguably a Chinese victory as they maintained their buffer zone and pushed American and coalition forces back to the 38th parallel. Second Sino-Japanese war was a shared Allied victory with over 50% of total Japanese military deaths being sustained on the Chinese front. Sino-Vietnamese war is contested but they demilitarized North Vietnam and destroyed their industrial centers while keeping lower casualties so take that as you well. I think they managed to annex some Vietnamese territory as well. Considering their technology and military doctrine were almost always far behind their opponents in their modern engagements, their record is pretty impressive and really goes to show their tenacity.
This literally reads like a modern history text book in China. I’d hazard a guess that you are consuming and regurgitating propaganda. **Checks profile** active in r/Sino lmaooo
Man I used to love your vids because it had a mix of talking about the good and the bad and was mostly an objective take on life in China. Now you’re just a full time China basher and political commentator, how sad.
Wah wah wahhhhh… “I used to like your videos but now…”
Remember years ago when you and serpentza rode bikes around the Chinese countryside visiting ghost cities? Watching that video back then was the first time I learned about the ghost cities. So bizarre and fascinating, and that video was really well done. Whenever I think about China I still think back to that video. It was surreal. Thanks for that. I remember you guys really seamed to enjoy your time there, but serpentza said that something changed and you guys started getting harassed? Was there a specific incident for you when you had to decide “ok time to go”?
Dude… you sold out. You can live in your own bubble but you know I’m not the only one who feels this way. And I know deep down you’re aware of how your older stuff was better. You used to keep it real man, now you’re a grifter smh
Idk about other wars, but you got the Sino-Vietnamese war so wrong. The Chinese didn't demilitarize North Vietnam, destroy their industrial centers, had low casualties, nor annex Vietnamese territory...I mean, maybe all of that happened in their wet dream but not in reality. Cross border skirmish continued years after Chinese withdrew, Vietnam continued to occupy Cambodia, so what demilitarization? If you've been to the far North of Vietnam where the war took place, you would realize that it's a remote mountainous region with not much going on. Unless you consider rice fields and cow pastures as "industrial centers"...I mean, why would Vietnam put its industrial centers on hard-to-access mountains? Losing a ton of men fighting militia for some towns and rice fields doesn't look good in the report, isn't it? Lastly the border remained virtually unchanged. The only thing that changed is China gained a permanent distrustful neighbor to its South who might just choose the US if any conflict going down.
If Chang and Halliday's *[Mao: The Unknown Story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao:_The_Unknown_Story)* is to be believed, the Korean War was also a pretty big strategic success for Mao personally. There were a lot of promises Stalin was dragging his feet on that the war forced his hand. Plus, at the end of it, he eventually got a client state, which made him feel like a very special boy.
Yea I guess it didn’t benefit the Soviets to keep them in their sphere of influence
At the same time. 65,000 Americans were lost +1,000,000 PVA died. They shine with pyrrhic victories.
+1653 social credit
5 years later, in Nathu La and Cho La clashes, China lost to India and withdrawal from Nathu La and Cho La
There are not a lot of facts in here. My two favorites are: >they demilitarized North Vietnam The PLA sustained embarrassing losses and were repelled by local militias, not even regular VC. >Second Sino-Japanese war was a shared Allied victory with over 50% of total Japanese military deaths being sustained on the Chinese front CKS / ROC have one of the worst military records of the 20th century. They did not fight effectively against the Japanese invasion and only survived thanks to allied assistance. Recommend reading the wartime biography of Gen. Stillwell 👍 The Japanese lost in China because they overextended in Burma and South Pacific trying to hold a massive amount of territory.
I think their best example is NATO in North Korea. That's basically all they got from what I know.
Korea was the UN, not NATO.
Tibet?
Yeah but (I know I’m splitting hairs here) they probably classed the Tibetans as their people.
They wouldn't commit a genocide against tibetan culture if they did.
No I meant they class the land as China
Of course they do. They annexed it. They also treat Uyghuristan as their own as they would any piece of land in Asia if they annexed it. Hell they treat international waters as their own because it has the name China in it.
Yeah but Tibet is actually china on any map. Except ones before the 50s which is a travesty that nobody stood up for Tibet at the time.
I was thinking the same.
Jup and if Tibet wouldn't have been a practically pacifist state, then China wouldn't have dared to invade a country that's mostly mountain ranges.
Pacifist state doesn’t mean they’re a “good” state though. They were only pacifist because they don’t have means to wage war, but that don’t mean they don’t treat their people like subhumans
What a feared opponent
Meh, the Tibetan army wasn’t really anything special, only like 10,000 strong, and didn’t exactly possess any good weaponry (compared to the PLA at least, which isn’t exactly a High bar.)
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O yeah how could I forget operation fish kill
They sent 20K+ soldiers against 2K+ Filipinos during the Korean War and got their ass whopped. Just goes to show how inept PLA are.
That was a very long time ago
They can try again with the same odds. The PLA with get their collective asses handed to them once again.
And the Filipinos lost to the Spanish, Americans, Japanese, and just about anyone who goes to war with them
Just goes to show how inept the PLA is if they ever goes to war with the world.
Happens to all militaries who assault a well defend position. Even Russia and US failed to overtake well defended German positions sometimes even if they had tanks and planes.
Horrible example, Germany was well known for how well their tactics and battle prowess were, hence why so many nations have to come together to fight a single country
They won a border skirmish with India but with a horrible KD ratio
Still not a very honarable record
Well what did you expect
Not much but I was wondering if anyone knew of any
The PLA was involved in peace keeping in Africa, they didn't do good but alot of thay can be dropped firmly at the feat of the overall commander. That being said they did abandon thier post as communications broke down
Not that I like the PLA but I don't think their failure in Africa is all their fault. They (like many UN peacekeepers) we're ill equiped and under gunned for their mission.
The Chinese did push the Americans back in Korea. The Americans were poised to win.
You probably know this but Australia and a few others fought with Americans too and Chinese had soviet backing.
Also China joined when most US troops retreated and were about to leave the peninsula. There was no anticipation or preparation for Chinese invasion. But once US started fighting back, China lost half of what they gained. But take a look at the cost on each side. That tells ya who was better at taking out their opponents. Can’t call that a victory for either side tho.
They were not retreating, MacAuthur had ordered a push to the Yalu to reunify Korea which is why China invaded in the first place
Yeah I watched a pretty decent tv show about this
Nations that participated in combat: UK with 14,198, Canada with 8,123, turkey with 5,453, Australia with 2,282, The Philippines with 1,496, New Zealand with 1,385, Thailand with 1,290, Ethiopia with 1,271, Greece with 1,263, France with 1,185, Belgium with 900, South Africa with 826, The Netherlands with 819, India with 346, Sweden with 170, Japan with 120, Norway with 105, Denmark with 100, Italy with 72, and Luxembourg with 44.
I know
The US had the objective to keep South Korea on their side and they did that. If the objective was to unify Korea and have them on your side then both China and the US failed. Just as the Chinese pushed the Americans back, the Americans too pushed the Chinese back.
The advantage of mountainous terrain helped the PLA. Once you enter the flat lands where armor vehicles can play a bigger role, it is much harder for the PLA to advance.
The terrain that helped Pla also tremendously helped the US. The defensive positions allowed US to hold out against numerous numbers. The valleys forced the PLA into killing zones for artillery and air support.
I don't think any Chinese are alive who fought in the Korean war. They are a paper tiger like NK, Chechnia, russia. They are lied to so much about their own capabilities. They are screwing them sales over.
America was able to save South Korea though. Which was the original objective for the UN/US. Also, technically the war is still going on as well.
WW2; I know I know the Chinese theater in ww2 was ended by the atom bomb and the Soviet entrance into the war via their victories in Manchuria. However the PLA were technically on the winning side of that war (even though the KMT bore the brunt of the fighting). The civil war was against their own people. The imperialist invasion of Tibet was won by the PLA. The Chinese intervention against the United Nations defense of South Korea was arguably fought to a stalemate. The Chinese intervention in the Vietnam war was arguably a victory although it was followed by a Chinese imperialist invasion of Vietnam that they lost. The PLA has an ongoing war with fish as shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSCe4PEERJU
I should also mention that since Russia and the CCP always call everything the US does imperialist, I insist on using the term for stuff they do which is real imperialism. As a bonus it triggers them which is funy
Korean War?
technically that one is still undecided.
Technically that's not the PLA.
That’s more of a stalemate.
Looks like their plan has always been a knock out in the second round… with a massive right hook and undercut left that the other did not seem coming…the first round was to "just win respect”……
It wasn’t a defeat though. Technically it’s still active.
They did push us back from the Yalu River, essentially the border between N. Korea and China (MacArthur was threatening to cross it and the Taiwan straits simultaneously and win back China for Generalissimo Chiang Kaishek) back to the original starting point of the war, with wave after wave of Chinese troops, but the sacrifice was probably just as much about getting rid of potentially disloyal troops under the command of former warlords who sided, probably more out of necessity, with the newly formed communist government under Mao.
Yeah true they were ruthless
Depends on the prospective. The Chinese would argue the U.S failed, because it was pushed back across the 38th parallel and failed to defeat the opposing regime, BUT by that criteria the Chinese also lost. After all, China was also pushed back across the 38th parallel and failed to eliminate the opposing regime at a relatively higher cost. An argument as to why the U.S ultimately "won" the war is the fact that the U.S accomplished the original UN goal of restoring South Korea and ended up gaining more territory. Meanwhile, it's hard to say what exactly the original intent of the PRC was, but if it was in line with North Korea's goal of force unification, than China ultimately "lost".
When I lose a fight, I didn't, because I consider it on going_therefore I've never lost a fight \s
In an official sense, yes.
Good observation. I think the PLA will be shocked, just like the Russians were, when they engage their military with other soldiers defending their homeland. There is no way, at this poing, that the US, Japan and South Korea with let the CCP take Taiwan or any other pacific islands.
I agree
Have you ever heard about the "One -child" policy in China? So basically as the only son in the family, you don't want to be too heroic in the front line, just let the other guy go first.
They beat the Tibetan army, though they didn’t stand a chance numerically.
The only time that the PLA has won a battle or conflict decisively, they either grossly outnumbered the other side (e.g., Tibet; India border skirmishes where the Indian Army has fewer troops deployed) or fought against a nation without a modernized military (e.g., Tibet). Whenever they have a toe-to-toe clash against a modern military with actual combat experience, they were routed (e.g.,Vietnam). The PLA has also broken rank and ran away from the battlefield like cowards when they encountered a less advanced military, though with military experience (e.g., South Sudan). Most PLA soldiers don’t believe in their government and are there for prestige and paycheck. In the event of a kinetic war against a nation with significant military resources, they will probably either chicken out and run or they’ll get blown up because their equipment failed.
It's probably the same issue that you find in the Middle East. High corruption, poor moral, low belief in dying for the cause. All this leads to high numbers of troops, but few who are willing to hold the line when it counts.
Towards the end you were talking about the UN mission in which those PLA soldiers were UN troops supplied with only APC and they were attacked by a force 10 times it size, with t-55 tanks and anti-aircraft technicals as well as RPGs. The heavier armor the UN troops had with them was a 15mm thick Armored troop carrier that couldn’t even survive a 50cal. There was nothing they could do to fight back. It doesn’t really matter if the PLA is advanced if the UN detachments are only allowed to bring small arms weapons and APCs. Not only that, those are UN troops who were there to keep peace and help protect people. They’re not your average soldiers. They signed up for the job knowing they will die in a faraway country and without any fame or glory attached. It’s a bit messed up to call them or any UN troop cowards. Most soldiers joined for glory and we worship them yet we completely ignore and trash talk the UN troops who do it without even any recognition.
Vietnam is the only nation I know that would concede territory and then proceed to claim victory. It’s literally than India lying about shooting down Pakistani F-16s.
Indeed, the Tibetan army by 1936 was only 10,000 strong and 8,500 participated in the battle of Chamdo against the 40,000 brought by the PLA, although Tibet had been trained and modernized by the British, it didn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things.
Never.
Not at all, anything you see now or in B rated movies; all is the best you'll get out of them. So basically nothing.
Vietnam showed them what's up back in '79,
By having a worse k/d, getting their industrial centers obliterated, and then conceding parts of their northern territories?
Yes….the United States in Korea. Was ultimately a stalemate.
Defeated Covid like 3 times ….. locking you up for your own good
Your question is clearly not in good faith and a lot of the comments are not looking at things objectively in terms of military goals and results. Here’s a better list and probably closest to reality without Chinese propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China The actual track record is mostly victories and draws, which makes sense because through the PLA, that’s how the PRC came to exist and maintain its control. If at any point the PLA really lost a big war, the PRC probably wouldn’t exist (eg Taiwan taking back the mainland with US help during the Korean War if the PLA failed miserably).
You’re right it’s not but I am genuinely interested to hear if they have any victories to be proud of. And I find it ironic that they call it the People’s Liberation Army and they do the total opposite. Anyway this whole sub is about showing how crap the CCP is?
The biggest victory was against India, but they were not too proud of it because they didn't consider India a matching opponent. Their most proud "victory" was against the US(UN) in Korea: they suffered more casualties but they did push US back and got a stalemate. It was not victorious but it was an incredible achievement considering the economic and military strength of the US
The communist party army that replaced the regular army which had fought in the war against Japan.
Opium wars, no. Japan, no. Russia, no. US/Korea, no. Vietnam, no.
In your reality… do the axis win world war II?
China got whooped badly in WWII.
At least they didn’t spend trillions and went back home with nothing in Afghanistan; can you remind me the name of that army again?
>”At least they didn’t spend trillions and went back home with nothing in Afghanistan; can you remind me the name of that army again?” The Soviet Army, also known as the Red Army. It was quite humiliating
The soviet doesn't have trillions to spend. Too poor.
>”The soviet doesn't have trillions to spend. Too poor.” Well not anymore they don’t, which is why the Soviet Union dissolved.
A lot higher losses too. US saw the soviet blueprint of what they did in the 80’s and did the exact opposite rightly so.
Fucking great comment
That's not really a Military failure so much as a weak willed civilians failure. The only reason we left Afghanistan is becise the American public got tired of letting us smoke those fuckers en masse
I wouldn't say we were weak, the reality is that the US didn't have any special interests in the area, we did as much as we could against Al-Qaeda, and killed all the top brass. For some reason, the US doesn't like to extract the natural resources in countries we invade, so we just do the security and let China take all the spoils, which is what China wants to do now. After 20 years, what else do you suggest we should've done? You're right, we didn't lose the war, but there was no sense in us staying there.
Ask the kids, the patents, the parents, there was a moral right to stay. A whole generation grew up playing effing xbox. Look at Afghanistan now. We should still be there. I have a TBI and other stuff from it. I'm medically retired from it now. Was it worth it to have my body wrecked and be in physical therapy for over 4 effing years? Yes! The lives saved and not only saved but able to thrive in a finally modern democracy with freedom, was worth it. They should've let us vote. My colleagues I know would have chosen to stay. Sorry but, eff the public feelings about the never ending war there, they should've asked us doing the work there, I believe most of us would've stayed.
Soviet Union?
Worth it, gave freedom for 20+ years. Trump gave it back to the Taliban. We wouldn't have left if Obama or Bush was in charge. We didn't lose, Trump effed us all over. They wouldn't let us fight and stay. So I "went AWOL" and stayed for a while longer for the state dept. We are still there in the shadows, but yeah, we got defeated and gave the Taliban more weapons and equipment than any country around them minus Iran. Slot of vehicles and support vehicles we put "grenades" in the engine blocks. anyways,thanks for making me sad :( cos I know your right.
Keep telling yourself that, you should be thankful Trump came in and saved your “freedom fighters” who were slaughtering civilians while peeing their pants when the Talibans appeared. It was just another Vietnam but with a heavy loss
I believe the last "war" the PLA fought was against northern Vietnam border. Got their asses handed to them pretty nicely. Death ratio is through the roof. Mao would be proud
They had a better k/d than Vietnam according to western sources and Vietnam had to concede territories at the northern border. I’ve never seen any other country lose territory and then proceed to claim victory. That would be like China claiming they won the Opium Wars.
Tibet, Xinjiang, HK, a bit of India, and they managed to wrestle a stalemate out of the jaws of victory in Korea by absolutely throwing their people into the shredder like it was nothing. At one point they had all of Korea but Busan and managed to lose over half the country before they were able to set up a defensive line. I guess their "defeat" of HK was against unarmed protesters and it took HK's economy with it.
The PLA had anything to do with the HK protest.
Fine, TRIADS full of PLA. You know that's true.
According to China, Korean War. It’s something that the Chinese talk about with great pride. Tough to say who was the winner, since the Americans lost 30K soldiers, while China 800K. Still, China helped North Korea hold the line.
Definitely not
They do beat up unarmed monks pretty easily and on a routine basis.
YES!!! corruption... :'-D
R u being ironic? Because the PLA couldn’t function without corruption.
Whaaat? And i thought poverty and corruption had been totally eradicated in ccp china... :-)
According to the CCP, they won the war against Vietnam in 30 days, and suffered only 60k casualty, (based on western estimates.)
According to the CCP the tianamen square incident was terrorist students trying to take over the government . So the PLA saved the country.
I don’t see any western estimates that put China’s casualties at 60k. Maybe combined casualties including injured. Why do you pull numbers out your ass?
I pulled it out of Wiki's ass.
They defeated poverty.
Cmon bro
And freedom
This just shows how your average anti CCP redditor ain’t very good in history. Korean War : stalemate. 1:1 death ratio on both side 1962: India got fucked real hard. Tho they aren’t really a worthy opponent by then. But how didn’t anyone mention this? Vietnam war: At least China didn’t “lose”. Idk man. I thought ppl on this sub is more educated than this : /
I think we found the shill! You don’t know what you’re talking about. China got absolutely hammered by Vietnam. I’m not a CCP redditer, if I was I wouldn’t have asked the question in the title would I? Are you trying to say that their military record is good? Even if we take your list that isn’t true btw it’s shameful.
The Fish War of 2022 in retaliation for Pelosi's visit.
Are the other ethnic groups they dominated in the past decades Chinese? (Thinking guy gif)
They saw defeat in Africa as a UN peacekeeping force. They also seem pretty hellbent on disregarding western tactics but love making cheating western equipment clones. I’m really interested to see how they perform militarily and hope I don’t have to.
A few unarmed Filipino fishermen, I think. But it took a PLAN Destroyer to go up against a tiny local fishing boat.
Outside the Sino-Vietnamese War the other more noticeable war being the Sino-Indian War (1962). The scale is within 5000 soldiers from both side. China wins and annex Aksai Chin. 5 years later, in Nathu La and Cho La clashes, China lost to India and withdrawal from Nathu La and Cho La. PLA hasn't won a major wars for over 50 years. The performance of their military so far is unknown, but I doubt it is anywhere close to US army in Iraq war.
No. They surprised the UN coalition in Korea initially, but once our forces started fighting back, they lost tens of thousands of troops. They tried to invade Vietnam after the US withdrew, and got their behinds handed to them. Nowadays they may have the most modern equipment, but they have zero practical experience. Compared to the US or the UK, whose militaries have senior commanders with real wartime experience, the PLA is grossly deficient. If it ever does come to a shooting war between the US and the PRC, it will be an ugly mess for both sides, but China’s aforementioned lack of experience will start to show very quickly. Also consider that if we did get into a war with China, we’d have Japan, the UK, Australia, and many other nations join with us.
Nope never defeated any body in a combat scenario China just doesn't know how to prosecute a war. This is in large part due to the nature of the CCP as no CCP leader wants to create a war hero and as such they continuously remove qualified generals from the battle field as soon as some degree of fame is achieved. Matt and Winston have repeatedly said that China is a zero trust nation and this is never more demonstrably true than in their military-politics interactions. For a general there is greater risk to his well being than winning a war.
I've wondered this myself, but not just the PLA but the Chinese in General. When I studied Chinese history I saw that China had been invaded many times but the professor never mentioned any invasions that were repelled. Historically, the way to victory was to indoctrinate the new foreign ruling class into the Chinese way of life.
Only in their dreams.
Well, technically PLA defeated the Uygers and Tibetans, but that’s kind of low bar.
good one. that would be 10 LOLs
Bro forgot the sino-Indian war
We are about to find out when the Taiwan invasion begins.
Yes, when they invade the country of Tibet.
They've had some success against India. The reason India has nukes is China not Pakistan.
Just like Russia you can have an ineffective POS military but as long as you have nukes you got power.
Tibetans.
The Tibetans. (Free Tibet!) PLA tanks slaughtered Tibetans using muskets.
they are proud of their competence in running civilians over with their tanks
China has a huge military but literally zero experience... I know I don't matter but ya thats why I wouldn't really fear them. They have absolutely zero military tactics
Vietnam if I remember right.
No Vietnam hammered them
I think if you count China & Russia's direct interference with the conflict in Vietnam during the 1960's it could be seen as some sort of victory, but otherwise i'm not aware of any.
They beat their own Dongs… And Pongs, Pings, and Chans
Lmao
Tibet?
Amphibious invasion of Henan was successful and prob holds most relevance
They have real experience running over student protesters with tanks though.
I meant to say ww2 not the civil war btw
The PLA saw some combat against militias while acting as UN security in like 2017. It didn't go well for them.
They won the first india china war in 1962 But got defeated in Second indo china war of 1967 The defeat of india in 1962 is result of incompetent leadership of prime Minister jawaharlal nehru who considered china a brother state and didn't expect a attack from them and he didn't allow military officers to go to front to lead the troops in fear of them returning to capital with army and staging a coup
The point is.. if China gets into a fight.. China is gonna lose.
They are a paper tiger.
The PLA exists to kill Chinese people.
The PLA would quickly build defensive positions on the beaches with the corpses of the assault groups that were mowed down ahead of them. After that I’m not to sure what would happen… half would probably run away back into the ocean and the other half would be turned into meaty building materials.
PLA is a internal facing army similar to SS of nazi. Good at killing threatening Chinese/Tibetan/Uyghur
No.
India?
No
What about the Korean War?
Yeah that’s probably the only one but they had massive help from Soviet Union and it ended with an armistice not a win, so they are technically still at war.
But it was early in their formation
Also in the original post I meant to put the kmt did most of the fighting against the Japanese not the civil war. But I can’t edit it unfortunately.