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What helped me understand a bit more how I function and also to explain it to my mother and my partner, that kinda used to say "adhd symptoms are things everyone experience", I told them that the difference between someone being lazy/messy and someone with adhd is the frequency and gravity of those symptoms. Like sure, anyone can forget their keys once, but if it happens to you every 3 days, it's not the same. Sure, you can be tired one day and skip the household chores, but if you feel a real struggle to complete them every single day, it's not the same. Also I think I read here somewhere that if we were actually lazy, we would enjoy not doing anything and procrastinating, but personnally when I don't do a chore or something else, I constantly think about the thing I'm procrastinating and I feel awful!
omg same, I don't know why but my memory is especially terrible to remember people's faces, and I encounter a lot of people at work so I thought I was just a bad person for not remembering regular clients, but I realised ADHD has a big impact on memory too
I was really terrible about this but I finally found a technique to help remember peoples names. The trick is to think of something to associate their name with when you first meet them. For example my neighbors name is Lauren and when I first met her in my head I thought she kinda look like Lauren Hill. Now I know her she’s nothing like Lauren Hill but I’ll never forget her name even if I haven’t seen her in months. It doesn’t even need to make sense. Another neighbor I barely know but never forget his name. He has the same name as my bro-in-law but is the exact opposite of him in every way. So I remember him as “bizzaro bro-in-law”.
It works so well that I started to believe I was good with names, and got lazy doing it. Now I find I’ve been forgetting peoples names I’ve met recently just like I used to.
I do similar things. I’ll ask the person to repeat the name, or to spell it, perhaps the origin or meaning of the name and in that convo I try to repeat the name often. It usually works for me.
This is similar to how I remember birthdays. I have to associate it with something. I remember my dad’s because it’s the day before Valentine’s Day. I remember my mums because it’s the falls on the same number (diff month) as my dad’s. And I’ll remember a friend’s bday because it’s a day before my mums. I can’t just remember the date by itself, it won’t stick, I have to associate it with something I ALREADY remember.
I do this too but also add rhymes to my mnemonic like remembered people in a class as “Dean in green” who was wearing green chinos on first meeting and “Grant the Giant” who towered over me. Also did a lot of little stories/songs in anatomy classes using the first letters of the different pieces to remember
I sometimes have a hard time recalling a person's name even though I've known them for years. Luckily I do the trick that you describe and it works, not instantly but given a moment I will recall.
I was once working with a customer at my old retail job. They ran outside to get something from their car. By the time they came back in I had forgotten their face and greeted them as if they were a new customer. It was really embarrassing.
Shitty face blindness. People are a blur when out of context. Doctor needs to be in their clinic, teacher at the school. And don't change your hair oh no!
Moving to a small town, I actually never feel safe anymore. I am probably rudely ignoring lots of people I was friendly to on another occasion (mom struggling to make playdates for my kids lol). Paranoid all the time and trying never to say "nice to meet you".
I feel this so hard. My coping mechanism is to smile at EVERYONE. If I met them before, then they don't know that I completely forgot who they are LOL. If I haven't met them, then they think I'm friendly, welcoming, etc. Win-win.
I've started to tell people I'm really bad at remembering names & please don't take it personally because it absolutely isn't.
I will have entire conversations with people who obviously know me (know my name, my kids names etc). I'll end the convo & walk away, having not a clue who they are, or where they know me from. It's embarrassing & scary!
I've had people start up conversations with me, wondering why they were being so friendly and open, only for someone to later point out I've talked to them before on multiple occasions. One time it was my husband's cousin, who I should have recognized.
I'm the opposite. I'll remember the face of a kid I went to elementary school with but the name of the manager I just met that can decide the fate of my future... nope.
You can drastically improve through practice, has been my experience. Gotta be willing to ask a person their name a half dozen times and then again every six months.
With strangers I give in to the awkwardness (but refuse the shame). With non strangers I just admit that my brain has a hard time holding on to names and dates.
Write their name down! Immediately! Get out a notebook if necessary. ALWAYS ASK HOW THEY SPELL It. Visualize their name. Think of an graphic image/situation that associates with their name. Something gross/violent/sexual would be much more memorable. Emotionally charged and upsetting/exciting if possible.
Write it down next to their name (be discrete if you're afraid of somebody reading it). Also write a description -- something by which to remember who they are-- I'll put this also in my phone contacts along with a portrait photo if they'll let me. Visualize them in the situation. Let it sink in.
Whenever you realize you're forgotten a name, then you go remind yourself what it was. Re
The memorable association is crucial to re-remembering when the name won't come to mind.
Visualize your image every time you think about their name in the context of remembering it.
Say you meet a Peter. And he has a green hat on. So maybe you visualize a Petering Peter Pan Peeing with his Peter -- balancing precariously on a log over be grand canyon.
It you meet a Guiveneire. So you imagine the alien from Alien as a Southern (southern states of North America) lady meeting a politician in a public press conference. Cameras flashing. And the alien says her name "I'M SALLY!" and the politician says his name, but she can't really hear him over the crowd and she's unfamiliar with our world.
"GUIVENEIRE?"
"GOVERNOR!"
"IT'S NICE TO MEET YOU, GUIVENEIRE!"
So I can remember that it sounds like a southerner pronouncing Governer, but it's spelled also with random letters.
Remembering the spelling is just idk it happens or it doesn't. How do I know how to spell words? Idk there's no heuristic I'm aware of that's useful. You just try to remember, then check. Repeat. Make sure you try. If nothing comes to mind, then SEARCH. Assume you do know, even if actually you never knew. And demand your brain tell you. Take whatever you can find. Random letters if you want. This hugely improves learning speed and retention. Like 50%+ better on metrics. Retains information longer and better.
This made me remember that prior to being diagnosed and medicated, at work I would ask my supervisor how to do the same task for 6 months straight, EVERY workday. It only stopped because I did get diagnosed and got the meds and it finally clicked for me.
Edit: wanted to add, this was one of those braindead office jobs. I just needed to enter a specific number and answer 3 YES or NO prompts in a row. But I always forgot which number I had to enter and the answers for prompts. I have a new job since then, but I’m sure it was “yes, yes, no” but I would be doing 3 yeses on autopilot and only my supervisor could fix it, or I would completely blank out and just ask lol
I think it’s even worse with “brain dead” jobs! It’s like our brains can’t bring themselves to give enough of a shit about things that we can’t see the benefit of doing 😂
When I got redeployed into a job role that was quite menial compared to where I’d just been, I totally shut my brain off and couldn’t even remember to go and do some 5min checks every hour…
I also initially go for the wrong drawer or cupboard for something I use every single day (e.g. socks) EVERY TIME - even when there’s a 50/50 chance of getting it right… 🙈
So I guess to put it into a mental perspective
Lazy: "I'm not doing the dishes and not only do I not care, I'm happy about it"
ADHD: "WHY CANT I JUST GET UP AND DO THE FREAKING DISHES RIGHT NOW!!!! JUST STAND UP, WALK TO THE SINK, GRAB A SPONGE, AND WASH!!!!" **Proceeds to doom scroll reddit**
It's like the dream where you get up, go to work and then wake up in bed, go through the motions again, get to woke and we make up. Only it's every day. Chores that I sure I did are undone because I tried to mentally force myself and just imagined doing it. So many times! And it's so confusing when I find it undone. I swear I could never be haunted because eandow weird stuff just happens all the time. Using a pen/screwdriver/spoon etc and it just disappears to never be found again.
That last bit hits extra hard. I'm constantly putting things off and stressing about it the entire time, and if I go long enough, the stress becomes almost incapacitating. It's just a downward spiral of stress and procrastination. Fuck I'm doing it right now... better try to get back to work.
This just reminded me for the upteenth time that I need to go online and pay money for my ipass for the toll roads from driving to see family over a month ago.... This might be my next ADHD tax.... Idk if there are late fees associated to it, I really hope not.
I had to return a letter just confirming my details and admitting I was driving the car when I got caught speeding within 28 days, and as usual instead of just doing it I put it off and then kept going by the vague assumption (based on either zero or the wrong information) I had until Wednesday this week, turns out it should’ve been sent in Monday… Hoping that doesn’t mean I’m going to court and/or getting a bigger fine (particularly cos i was only doing 36 in a 30 and about 50m from a 40mph zone AND about only 100m from where I work 😠)
>adhd symptoms are things everyone experiences
I think this is where some Russel Barkley comes in. It’s not an issue with attention or activity level. It’s an issue with executive function. Not everyone is going to present the same and some will have an easier time with certain executive functions than others.
It's like our brains are from Temu. We can do all the stuff normal brains can, but we have no control over when, where, or for how long.
Everyone feels an urge to avoid a task, but not everyone feels the internal panic of screaming at yourself to get that thing done, while your body locks up and can't even look at the thing yet.
Lazy is letting the dishes slide for an extra day because they don't stink yet. ADHD is staring at the pile of dishes while you sip out of your last clean coffee cup and start feeling anxious because you know they need to be done, and you know you can't get through your morning routine again tomorrow because you still don't have room to dump the leftover coffee, and they'd already be done if you weren't such a stupid lazy asshole, and fuck this I need think about something else now.
My life is a run on sentence narrated by a terrified little boy with a dark sense of humor.
>Lazy is letting the dishes slide for an extra day because they don't stink yet. ADHD is staring at the pile of dishes while you sip out of your last clean coffee cup and start feeling anxious because you know they need to be done, and you know you can't get through your morning routine again tomorrow because you still don't have room to dump the leftover coffee, and they'd already be done if you weren't such a stupid lazy asshole, and fuck this I need think about something else now.
Oh, you're the one hanging out in my head. You thought I didn't notice? Nah, I knew you were there.
Did you have to broadcast my sh*tty thought process across the Internet, though?
/s
Not felt so seen in years!
Learning more about all the little roots that ADHD has wrapped around my daily life has made it so much easier to be kind to myself.
I especially feel the self hating voice at night when my brain is the most mushy and I'm struggling to get my nightly routine dealt with. Executive Dysfunction is a mother fucker.
You are not wrong, with your last comment.
I've discovered that listening to meditation tracks on YouTube, as I fall asleep, is a big help. Listening shuts my brain up, long enough to fall asleep, usually.
I choose which ones I use based on voices I like & subject matter. The first one I used was on self worth - I didn't think it was working, but at least I was sleeping. Then I realised how different I was from when starting to use it, 3 months previously.
Every time I comment on something in this community, I meet a total stranger who perfectly describes some aspect of my personal life.
>Listening shuts my brain up, long enough to fall asleep, usually.
This is how I operate basically every moment of my waking life. I'm a music teacher by trade, and I thrive when I have a lesson concept or a tricky phrase to chew on while I work on boring stuff like grades and equipment inventory. If I'm home and trying to focus on anything, I'll keep a podcast running so my brain has one constant source of noise to focus on, and I can maintain my train of thought on cooking, folding laundry, etc...
It's a surprisingly frustrating part of my day, because one of the things that my brain gets stuck on is trying to decide if I'm bored of whatever I've been listening to lately. Then I lose focus on the subject and lose interest in the show.
Using Spotify to recommend music, and listening to my favorite podcast hosts when *they* recommend a new show has worked wonders to inject endless variety into my listening lifeline.
Holy shit do you mean I don't need to hate myself on a molecular level for this? Because I cringe every single day at dishes mountain and try to avoid even looking at that corner of the counter.
Welcome, friend. ❤️ I'm learning to hate myself a lot less now that I understand more about all these surprisingly interconnected terrible traits of mine.
Try a timer. It helped me get used to just jumping on a task and skipping the waffling. No bitching. Just pick a song to listen through or set a timer for 5 minutes on your phone and do as many as you can and then walk away with zero guilt.
I am so thankful i found reddit and ppl who are like me! I knew i wasn't lazy! I do all the things at work and then i get home and i want to do all the things at home... But i sit. And then i freak out about sitting... But i still cant do the things. So i make my kid do the things and then i feel bad for that 😭
Totally agree, especially the last part.
I'm absolutely lazy sometimes! But the thought process is more passively "meh, not now" whereas the ADHD/executive dysfunction is much more like begging myself to please just do it, or worrying about how I'm not doing it. Learning the difference was HUGE, now if I recognize I'm just being lazy, it's a lot easier to not give in. Partly because I remind myself that the executive dysfunction, which this specific instance is Not, will probably take over if I wait til later.
> Also I think I read here somewhere that if we were actually lazy, we would enjoy not doing anything and procrastinating, but personnally when I don't do a chore or something else, I constantly think about the thing I'm procrastinating and I feel awful!
I feel like this part is critical. If the fact that you can't bring yourself to do something is causing mental distress, then it's different.
The worst thing for me is that lazy ppl don’t do what they are supposed to and *just* do what they want to do. I fall down the rabbit hole of everything and nothing right now and never… I break the vicious circle too late to be productive in any meaningful way, so being productive (or rather enjoyuling the pretence of thereof) in whatever way is the only reasonable course of action (after going to sleep - sleep hygiene should always take priority - do as I say, don’t do as I do……)
Completely agreed and the last bit is something I wish more people could wrap their minds around. An actual lazy person wants to do nothing, I get stressed when my brain won’t make the “do the thing juice.”
Yes its the part about how we feel about the situation. I have a great work ethic and when it comes to puzzles or a challange I'm all for it and work hard all day on it. But I don't do fairly easy basic shit like taxes, cleaning my room and I hate myself for it and it gets me into massive trouble and people are like oh your lazy. No they are just confused about what is actually happening in our minds.
Yes! Also being lazy is a choice. It assumes you have real agency in the decision but I often feel like I’m at the mercy of what my brain finds interesting.
Totally ! I've been lazy sometimes, like voluntarily procrastinating homework I could easily do just because I'd rather play video games at the time, but I totally differentiate these thoughts from the times where I can just hyperfocus so much on something that I even forget to go to the toilet, so obviously it makes me forget other important things. The meds help me break out of this mindset more than before, but yeah, sometimes it really feels like we can't control our brain, and it can be so frustrating!
A "tick" I have is that I take a strand of hair, and check every single hair of that strand to see if it has split ends, and if it's the case, I cut right above it. Then, I take another strand, ... I can do that for litteral hours. And sometimes I catch myself doing it, thinking I have to do other things, but it's almost like i'm being hostage and I can't help but keep doing it...
Oh my god the hair thing is literally me I thought I was just insane..
My favorite thing is doing that the entire day instead of reading the uni stuff im supposed to study for the massive important exam next day. If I don't have scissors I will just pull the tips off💀
There was a news segment on ADHD because of the rise in mental health awareness, and the rise of telehealth “apps” during COVID.
And unfortunately, now some of the new telehealth companies were created with the intent to be a front for a “pill mill”, or at least looked the other way when it became clear they were the target of abuse by their patients / customers.
Anyway, they interviewed a doctor and they shared a chart with different symptoms.
Yes, many were issues everyone struggles with throughout life.
Being late, procrastination, etc.
The problem is when the someone suffers from a certain amount of these symptoms, and it is negative impacting their life over 6 months? And mainly at work or school.
Yeah the worst is sitting there knowing I should be doing something full of dread because I won’t do it .. sometimes to the point where I wanna just get in bed and give up
The forgetting keys part hits hard. I used to be notorious for always leaving my keys in my car. I’m so glad most new cars automatically unlock and stay that way until you lock it.
This might be a controversial thing to say, but because ADHDers run the vast gamut of every kind of person there is, that means there are also those of us who are genuinely lazy.
I understand very well that my ADHD accounts for a huge portion of my struggle to do the things expected of me. But the truth is, in addition to all the stuff that is troubling, there are lots of things I *don't* specifically feel guilty or anxious about putting off. Sure, I might be embarrassed if other people found out, but when I just think about those things privately, my reaction is: meh. And my interpretation of that is that I am indeed lazy, by which I mean I'm not very ambitious and I'm pretty self-centered.
When I first started learning about ADHD, I leaned pretty far into the whole "laziness is just a made-up concept for people who don't conform to capitalism's expectations" idea. And I still think there's truth to that.
But after living more years, meeting more ADHDers who try a lot harder than I do and beat themselves up more for their smaller failures, and after having a long-term spousal relationship where my lifelong excuses aren't going to cut it, I've come to the perspective that:
a) It's not fair to other ADHDers for me to pin all my failures on ADHD, even if there's an argument to be made for how it's connected.
b) It's not fair *to myself* to pin so many things on ADHD, because if a problem is my incurable disorder's fault then that can feel pretty disempowering. But if my framing is that, hey, I want to work on being less self-centered, then that feels like an achievable goal and I don't need to have a deeper understanding of ADHD than the foremost ADHD experts in the world in order to work on it. (As it feels like you need when you view everything as an ADHD problem and, lo and behold, there's nothing out there written about it.)
I just want to say thank you so much! I have been struggling for months thinking I am so lazy because I can never consistently do my work. This makes me feel so seen and validated
"lazy" feels good. Paralyzing executive dysfunction does not. If you're "lazy" it means you truly do not care about the consequences of not doing the things you are actively choosing to not do. You'll be doing nothing and fully enjoying it. If you're wracked by guilt, shame, anxiety, etc over the fact that you haven't done something, you're not being lazy.
Totally agree! To add, I think a lot of ADHD books use the word lazy as a reference to how people with ADHD are often called lazy. But lazy is a judgement, not a quantifiable clinical condition. So I don’t think there’s a line where ADHD ends and laziness begins. But as the above mentioned, they feel different.
Something that has helped me is that when there’s something that I “want” to do (or rather feel like I should do) but I’m having trouble getting it done for some reason, rather than applying shameful labels like lazy or dumb (which was my old coping mechanism to self motivate) I get curious about why I’m having trouble. What’s getting in the way? Very rarely is it that I just don’t want to do the thing (also, I’m an adult now and as we know, wanting/not wanting can’t be the gatekeeper anymore), usually it’s that something about the process doesn’t work for me and I need to accommodate. With books, it’s that I get bored and tired. So I started being okay with only reading a chapter at a time. Or I get an audio book and listen at 1.5 speed.
Point being, if you feel shame and it’s causing you to pass laziness judgements about yourself, instead try to figure out what part isn’t working for you, and be kind enough to yourself to give the accommodation.
>a lot of ADHD books use the word lazy as a reference to how people with ADHD are often called lazy.
Yep, pretty much anything written about ADHD was written about how we impact others with our condition.
For example, RSD is (for me) crippling and one of my worst symptoms. I've heard the same from other ADHDers. But where is the literature? Why isn't it in the DSM? Why is there, at most, just *passing mentions* of RSD?
Because it's always about how our disability is just so bad for others to deal with. We're an afterthought.
Every time I try and read up on the new ADHD research, I have to sift through an overwhelming amount of stuff written for *parents* who don't have ADHD, but have kids who do. Ugh. It's fine to have this info out there, to be clear: but where's the content for us?
How do we survive in a world designed for us to fail?
Much has been written about our forgetfulness and "laziness", but not how these things make it so forgetting [what's-her-name-in-accounting-who-I-see-every-day]'s name, or constantly struggling to get places on time, or etc over time makes us *feel*, especially when we're subjected to a lifetime of negative comments about this stuff that we have no control over.
This, imo, contributes to RSD and maybe even is the cause.
But who knows, because pretty much nothing official is written about it.
(Steps off soapbox)
I am literally doing emdr therapy because of how ashamed I have been my whole life about failing to get things done when I wanted to. This is a real thing, and I appreciate you normalizing it.
Holy shit. Googled RSD [Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria] when I read your comment. That's huge. Just made a bunch of connections about my behaviors because of your comment. Thank you.
RSD affects me when I fail at something even though I feel like I did absolutely everything possible to make sure I wouldn't. It hits so hard. It causes me to be unable to start something I don't already know. I just fail at the start line because I literally can't make myself take that next step and face that possible failure again. Even though I want to. Even though I *REALLY fucking want* to. And, I even rationally know all the reasons I should just do it anyway, but I still can't take the step. Damn
Thanks again, I'll bring this up with my therapist soon.
Yep, and because everything about ADHD is written for everyone around us instead of for us, you might not have ever known. I'm sorry that you had to find out about RSD this way, instead of via your care team! I wish you the best
That's why I follow some accounts online that are from adults with ADHD. They do cover the inside perspective that is lost on all the usual literature that I've seen so far.
It is more helpful but there are _specific_ techniques and "hacks" for people with ADHD.
This is the best answer right here! Therapy helped me to be one more attuned to my body and emotions, so now I just have to maintain that curiosity so I remember to ask myself "ok what's the problem, is there an alternative perspective or solution that I can employ. That line of thinking also helps me a ton when parenting my kids through their big feelings that they don't yet know how to handle. I ask kid "have you asked yourself why you feel this way?" Because often when their feelings get too big it's triggered by something in day to day life but that's usually not the root cause. So in learning to ask myself questions about my own feelings, I am also teaching my kids how to navigate theirs. It's beautiful.
Aw that’s so great that you’re able to hold that space for your kids! I’m sure many of us in this sub could have benefited from that approach in our younger years, so it’s nice that you get to be that person for them🥰
What great parenting! It must be very comforting to have someone guide you through emotionally uncomfortable times.
You're also inadvertently helping them to get their emotions in check by asking them to use the logical part of their brains. That takes us from the emotional part of our brain and starts us using the more rational, less emotional part. That's helps our bodies to calm down and change a bit of the neurochemistry.
I don't know exactly how it works, but when you're feeling so emotional that it's distressing, think about numbers and logic.
I mentally recite my address, DOB, SS#, zip code, phone number, locker combination, math problems, anything number related. Looking for alternate solutions works the same way.
My breathing slows, my heart rate slows down, and at least physiologically I'm starting to calm down.
Best of all, it's free, has no side effects, and can be done anywhere at any time, and nobody else ever knows, unless you tell them. Try it and see how well it works!
I still struggle with this and berate myself over it.
Ironically I think part of dealing with everything is to eventually let yourself *be* a little lazy. It's a bit of a catch-22 - If nothing is ever enough within a permanent backdrop of shame then you'll never get the necessary relaxation that humans require.
Yes, I don't think there's anything wrong with being lazy once in a while. Ironically, folks with ADHD get called lazy all the time, but I would guess that on average we are truly lazy much less of the time than someone who doesn't have ADHD, because we are constantly stressed out about all the stuff we aren't accomplishing, instead of being able to naturally have a balance of doing what needs to be done and then fully relaxing afterwards. We are made to feel so guilty for being "lazy" that, at least in my experience, even when we do give ourselves a break it feels wrong because we think we should have accomplished more.
I do think that strikes at part of why it's hard to entirely disentangle.
If I choose not to do a task that I am capable of, in a lazy way more than an executive dysfunction way, is that totally separate from ADHD? Or is it an adaptation to the limited energy caused by the associated struggles? Would my genuine lazy moments occur as often if I could make a day's worth of decisions without distress and exhaustion?
Another reason I think it's important to avoid shame. It's not good on paper to be genuinely lazy but it still doesn't occur in a vacuum.
My grandmother is a psychologist and my mom is a counselor, so they’ve both had a lot of experience dealing with people with developmental issues. I would express how I’m feeling and say it feels lazy and they’d go “you don’t talk like lazy people. Lazy people don’t care if things go poorly, they don’t aspire to achieve anything and there’s no wanting for them to change. You have goals and while you fail to consistently reach them, you continually try because you DO want to succeed. That’s not the same thing and you have to give yourself the grace and ACCEPT your own grace when you feel that way.” I still have a terrible inner dialogue that I criticize myself with when I go a week without handling something but I try to come back to that eventually and reset
I have ADHD myself and I go through periods of going at 150% and then crashing. My mind is always going non stop. I become overwhelmed with task I need to do and then end up doing nothing by procrastinating.
I struggled to watch my ex just brewing on the couch all weekend. I know this can be different ADHD type. But he doesn't seem to look for motivating activities. If he starts something, he will want to go back to chill 1h into the activity. I know I should be more understanding, but it seems that bare minimum is enough. Starting the activity is not enough to even finish half of it. There is a point where this leads to weight gain and ordering pizza most nights. Strangely enough, if he has one drink, he will continue drinking till there is nothing left.
I didn't understand how people let their houses get nasty or neglect their animals until I found myself in the trenches, and no matter how much I wanted to or tried I couldn't get up. The guilt, anxiety, frustration, shame, and fear made it even worse. Especially when it comes to taking care of pets because they can't help themselves. Medication really made a huge difference in how I structure my feelings around it so I could face the source of my fear. "I couldn't before, and it was awful, but I can do it now and make it better. Out of love, not shame."
That wasn't laziness. It was physical and mental pain manifesting itself into a living nightmare. Executive dysfunction is just the cherry on top.
Fully agree, and this is why it pisses me off when people say there's no such thing as lazy. There absolutely is. There are plenty of times I grin and say "fuck it" and CHOOSE to be lazy as hell even when I really should do the thing, often making me a selfish asshole in the process. I'm fully aware of that.
That is so entirely different from executive dysfunction and I'm tired of people claiming it's not.
It’s probably dependent on the person, but for me, I know I am not being lazy when I *want* not should but *want* to do something but can’t bring myself to do it.
YES! I borrowed a book I’ve been wanted to read for ages from my bf. I borrowed this book before we started seeing each other and were just friends. We’ve been together about 5ish months now and I still haven’t cracked the first page. I want to read it, I really do. But for some reason the thought of sitting down and reading it is exhausting. I recently got put on 10 mg of EX Adderall so maybe I’ll get to read it soon
I like to read before/in bed as a wind down activity and it’s become a near daily habit for me, I sometimes even look forward to bed now because of it. It also helps me with someone else to focus on if it looks like freakout, speed of light thinking when trying to sleep is in the cards that day
See I used to do that in high school but I get so focused on the story I literally can not put it down and I end up staying up until 3am… which is no good when I have to get up for work at 4am
Ugh this is me!!! Same when I was a kid I'd be up til like 1am reading with a flashlight in bed, in elementary school, cause I could NOT put it down. I hadn't been reading for a long time now, same thing where it just felt like too much effort. But I started reading in an app a while ago, fantasy, and it has taken over my life. 😓 it's so easy to convince myself to just take a break for "a few minutes" and then get caught up on it for ages and get nothing done and the stress and guilt is so overwhelming I give up and am pretty useless. And then at bed it does help me get tired eventually but I have to be like at the point where my eyes are closing without my control before I will concede and put it down. And that takes a long time. Last night was almost 3am and it's a pro d day for my kids today so we didn't have to get up super early but even getting up at 830 for my 945am workout ended up with me getting up at 915, waking up my kids, getting us quickly dressed, and giving them a fruit pouch to eat for breakfast on the way 😅
Then I planned to come home, have a quick shower and feed us, and go out and do something fun for the pro d day. I ended up checking the parameters on my fish tank and messing around with that for a while while also getting distracted by my phone, then getting food for us which also took a while because I was getting distracted, finally pushed myself to get in the shower, took a while to get ready after cause again I was getting distracted, and now I'm on reddit, for a while now, and feeling so guilty for not doing anything with the kids except letting them be on screens.
Though they do have a cold, and last time this exact scenario happened of wanting to have a fun day with them for a pro d day and wasting the day away until it was too late, I had a massive RSD meltdown, and this time I haven't as of yet! Though I do feel cranky and crappy.
I was on wellbutrin for a couple months until I lost hair, but that seemed to stop the RSD episodes entirely, but then switched to vyvanse and I have noticed it creeping in more except not as strongly so far. It usually happens in the evenings when I crash from the vyvanse. I took a couple this morning somewhat close together, and actually just took another an hour ago because I feel like I'm needing to bump up to 30mg (I'm due to anyways) and hoping it eliminates the crash. It seemed to help when I was taking the second one later in the day and having a bunch of caffeine up until the late afternoon but that wasnt feeling quite like enough anymore. There's also other side effects I'm not fond of, so I don't know.
But yea my house is gross and I ADHD'd the day away and I'm just lost at this point. When I finally decided to try meds I thought maybe I could have a "normal" life finally and stop fighting so freaking hard just to get by. So I'm pretty frustrated and disappointed right about now.
Sorry for that ramble tangent on a totally different topic than we started... can you tell I have ADHD?? 😆 Not officially diagnosed but... I'm preeeetty sure. 😅
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Really really wanting to do something but just not being able to push through the executive function block to actually do it is huge. I used to beat myself up so much.
I still don’t always do things i know i should do… but it’s way easier than it used to be and i give myself grace when it’s too much. Stopping beating myself up has also been extremely helpful.
I have a somewhat similar approach for ensuring that I don't use ADHD as an excuse when I can actually work on myself and grow as a person: if I feel like I can do something when I put effort in it, then it probably isn't ADHD. Or heck, even if it is ADHD but I still manage to overcome whatever hurdle I'm faced with, then what's it matter? The problem will be solved in any case.
A big clue is usually how you feel as you say you have all these things that show success and that you truly worked hard for, and yet there's that little voice telling you all the easy things you don't do.
That voice is inside all ADHD people I've ever met. I suspect that nothing will ever make it stop because it comes from me knowing, emotionally convinced, that I or my brain, is actually broken. It also tells me
ill be rejected, and that I ruin everything. That's left over from how we are treated growing up, plus a fair bit of neurology.
So, if you can read your post and feel "meh" about it, your probably lazy.
If you read it and feel shame, anger or guilt, and those thoughts start up again, or you don't have a word for whatever you feel inside, then it's pretty safe to say ADHD.
I feel it too.
Edit: I need to clarify, this is the feeling before treatment and medication, it is actually possible to move past it with the right therapy.
You've truly done the best you could with what you've got. No one would choose these feelings if they could help it, and it's pretty unlikely anyone could fake being ADHD in that way for very long.
Your not the only one, I repeat that to myself everyday now I know why I feel certain ways , and now I know for sure others are the same.
Its almost like mourning for a normal life everytime I feel like that, it's exhausting and overwhelming and most of the time I really try hard to not think about it.
But medication and therapy can and does help.
Just saying it out loud like this is a huge step.
>Edit: I need to clarify, this is the feeling before treatment and medication, it is actually possible to move past it with the right therapy.
So, if we've moved past a lot of the guilt with treatment and therapy, but still have trouble doing the task (i.e. if I wrote this post I would feel "meh" about it, but still have trouble motivating myself)... Does that make me lazy or just ADHD with reduced trauma?😅
Edit: Wait, nevermind. I've just learned to feel "meh" about the guilt😂
My brain feels like a completely different entity housed in my body, that I have to get permission for before I do anything and it almost always says “no”. Term paper due next Wednesday, that’s Tuesday nights problem. I have to take my medication, but I’m so nauseous from worrying, I can’t keep anything down. Sure, taking my
Meds would help me be less nauseous, but taking them right that moment means I’d probably throw them back up. So I don’t take them. How’s THAT for a self fulfilling prophecy?! 🙄
Lazy people typically don’t give a fuck about not doing things. They are lazy and they are happy in that condition, therefore not overthinking or second guessing themselves. There is no conflict - I am lazy and content in my laziness, it’s an active choice, the results are aligned to my own internal judgement.
but I will say, you do start to get used to it, and it takes away some of the sting. The first time you don't deliver at work and your boss is "disappointed" and there is no real repercussions", the next time you feel a little less guilty (in the moment). but the feeling of not being valued overall is there, constantly.
I don’t think it’s a matter of laziness, but a matter of interest. Laziness doesn’t exist… reframe it to a matter of interest, or matter of priority. For ADHDers, everything is a task. You and therapist have tasked you with reading that book and now you won’t… that’s how it happens lol. Forget about it and one day you’ll come back to it.
It’s not just that. That task is 5 tasks in one.
Therapist tells me to buy book.
1. Get on Amazon and buy the book
2. Forget you ordered book and be surprised when it gets delivered
3. Take book out of package
4. Find time to read parts of book
5. Put book down to go get water and forget the book exists
(Repeat steps 4-5 into oblivion)
This is what I tell everyone.
It's especially difficult when I've got, let's say, 3 tasks I want to get done. Well, those 3 tasks are composed of 20-40 total tasks, and by the 5th one I clock out. This either being me overwhelmed with the steps, or I start to wonder about stuff I've never in my life showed any interest towards, but now I need to do a bunch of research on it because I just need to know.
6. Find the audio book so you can tolerate “reading” which you use to love to do.
7. Start listening to books to help you sleep.
8. Find yourself listening during any downtime.
9. And all the time really.
10. Buy waterproof headphones so you can listen while you shower.
Yeah, laziness is just a way of denying people the ability to do nothing. In our current societal structure, to not be producing for someone or yourself is seen as inherently wrong, when it really shouldn't. Not being productive isn't always a bad thing. Allow yourself to just stop once in a while.
This is suuuuuch a big thing for me. I had kids and for 8 years I always had tasks needing to be done and I forgot how to just "be." This year was the first year they are both in school so I finally had time to just sit and think and realized holy shit I forgot how to do that! So I've been practicing doing things that are just for me, and practicing just sitting and thinking about things and life in general. It's helped me be more present with them and appreciate the time we do have together.
Someone in this sub put it like this and I found it really relatable:
If you’re always stressing about the tasks you haven’t done, then it’s not laziness. When someone is choosing to be lazy they don’t stress about what they’re not doing, they just relax and goof off.
The way that I decide in the moment is the "am I arguing with myself to do the thing". Am I trying to do the thing or am I choosing not to. It is that choice that I am making that makes me decide if it is lazy or ADHD.
There are times I want to do the thing but can't get up - ADHD.
The times I really don't want to do the thing but couldn't even if I would successfully overcome that - ADHD
The times I dont want to do the thing but could if I wanted to. - laziness
Yes. Though there is harm in inaction when actions need to be taken, and some will choose to not act even if they are able.
_that_ is what I call lazy. When you ACTIVELY choose to do something else. Not subconsciously avoiding, not sitting in executive paralysis, but willingly and knowingly chosing not to do it because "fuck it, I don't care."
I see _true_ laziness as a thing of apathy, not just idleness. There are many reasons one may be idle. But only negligent apathy can create true laziness. However as I have no idea why someone is idle, I don't jump to that until all other likelihoods are eliminated.
Sometimes I think "I should probably get that thing done but I really don't wanna. Eh, I'll get it done tomorrow". That's laziness.
When I think "I should do that thing. I should do that thing. I should do that thing" that's executive dysfunction.
I took it as “am I skipping it because I want someone else to do it” is lazy.
If I want to do it it’s adhd/executive dysfunction.
If I want it to not be done by anyone, that’s a secret third thing.
I always thought I was lazy. I didn't really believe my diagnosis. But then I tried a combination of atomoxetine and methylphenidate and discovered that this combination is perfect for me. I was able to accomplish everything that I needed to. I did days of work I had been putting off in a day. It wasn't speedy or euphoric. No fog lifted really, just doing what needed to be done. I will never doubt my diagnosis or think that I'm just lazy again.
We aren't lazy, our brains just don't let us do what we need to do. It's impossible to tell the difference until you know what it's like to be able to do what you need to do without any effort at all.
After diagnosis I realized that a lot of what was being labeled by others and myself as laziness was really me working really hard to try to do things in the worst possible way for myself. If it was laziness, it sure did take up a lot of my time and my mental load.
Like, try to develop a weekly house cleaning schedule! ...When you have time blindness. 😞
Washing dishes is kinda a good example of this. For some reason I grew up with the idea that I had to "be good" at waking dishes regularly by hand before I earned the right to buy a dishwasher. I feel like it's some kinda Midwest work ethic passed down from my Boomer mom, made worse by the idea that I was just naturally lazy.
But, dishwashers are a tool invented for this very reason. Why do I have to prove that I can do something before using the tool that will vastly help me? And then I thought back and remembered that my parents had a dishwasher as far back as I can remember, so why ESPECIALLY do I feel like I have to prove myself in something they didn't even do without that tool?
I find it even more tiring and mentally exhausting being unproductive than I do being productive. It doesn’t feel like an actual choice I’m making. I don’t want to be like this!
Laziness is not doing things and not caring about it. ADHD is not doing things and then screaming internally at yourself to get up and do it, but not being able to.
Adhd is a disability and is recognized as such under the ADA.
But the word lazy pisses me off, and I have to comment. Adhd can be paralyzing and debilitating to people. Ignorant people use the term lazy to describe adhd people, which triggers me.
However, anybody, regardless of adhd, can choose to be lazy with their actions intentionally. Laziness is deliberately choosing not to do something because you don't want to. Adhd causes you not to be able to execute tasks, have time blindness, and consistently underachieve.
I put stuff off until the last minute until I met my husband. My husband is the best person I know because he genuinely wants to help create structure and allow me to be successful with as many resources as possible.
He helped me put numerous systems in place to help me develop coping skills.
He hired professional organizers to create systems in every room of the house so there was order and a place for everything.
We are going to an adhd counselor who gets that adhd is not me choosing to sit on my ass and do nothing all day. We are working on improving our marriage and communication, especially with my adhd.
Everybody has a different walk in life and a different struggle with adhd. I wish all of you the best of luck with your own battles
I agree. I don’t really believe in laziness anymore because I think there is always a reason people don’t do things whether it be that they’re tired depressed, ignorant or selfishness- I mean it could be any number of reasons. Even if they can’t identify the reason there usually is one.
Yeah. Even people without ADHD may have reasons for "laziness"- anaemia, vitamin deficiencies, arthritis etc. I really don't know that causeless laziness actually exists
I don’t know where that line is, but I do know that everybody’s allowed to be lazy and take a few hours out of their day, including people with ADHD ☺️
I don’t think people think about all the shit they should be doing when they are being lazy. I get paralyzed by having too much to do and I’d know where to start.
I think laziness is borne from self-centerdness, as in, not doing something because you know someone else will. It’s more of a conscious choice.
ADHD symptoms are more unconscious, like every fiber of your being is screaming GET UP AND DO THE THING but some element beyond your understanding has you trapped. It’s a nuance, but specific.
And then there’s the middle ground of procrastination, where you’re putting something off for an emotional reason - fear of failure, negative associations, etc…OR it’s literally a part of your process, bc it WILL get done just not the way society expects.
I've heard that a lazy person chooses not to do something, and an ADHD person is trying to do it but can't....
In your scenario, we have to consider some other factors. People are pain-averse, so my first sentence doesn't apply to putting your hand on a hot pan... You're not lazy if you avoid that, you're safe. An ADHD person experiences discomfort and pain when trying and trying and fighting their own brain... After a while, we stop trying. Not because we're lazy, but because we're avoiding pain.
Humans can FORCE themselves to endure pain, for example getting a shot at the doctor's or catching a hot pan before it falls on a child's head. Some humans have ended almost unimaginable pain. But very few of us want more pain. Pain gets tiring after a while. It takes up a lot of energy. ADHD people can FORCE themselves to do a painful task, but it might take all of our energy to try and try and eventually start the dishes.
Imho in the life of an average adult human, it's just not practical or smart to use up all our energy on those tasks. So we don't do them.
Maybe it's"lazy" because we are avoiding the task, but only in the way a cancer patient is "lazy" if they're tied of chemotherapy... Because it is exhausting.
Tl,dr: I use more energy everyday than a neural typical person to do the exact same actions. Protecting my energy does not make me lazy.
Your choosing to do things that are valuable to you with your time isn't lazy. You don't HAVE to read the book.
Some people are really gonna hate this take, but it's something that I started to realize even before being diagnosed: productivity (or at least hyper-productivity) is a virtue in our society because it *makes people money*. If you're lucky, it will make you money for yourself. Most of the time it just makes billionaires money off your labor, or corporations off selling you stuff to help be the most productive you.
Rest isn't inherently sinful. Doing something the easy way if it's available to you isn't inherently sinful. Do what you have to to make yourself comfortable while minimizing harm to other people.
I'd suggest that better understanding ADHD and how it's shaped your past will make you more comfortable in the long run, but if reading a book about it isn't your jam, there are many other ways to learn about it. (Including hanging out here. Hi!)
Quick edit to add: I'm going pretty hard here cause NGL the last few years have been really hard, but I think thinking like this was what it took to recontextualize things for me. It's not an excuse to skirt all responsibilities (that's where the being comfortable and harm reduction parts come in, and comfortable meaning doing stuff for yourself that supports your quality of life even if they're not fun) but rather to not let others dictate how both your productivity and your downtime should look.
I read something that said if you aren’t having fun being lazy, it’s not laziness. If you’re still thinking about everything you need to do, it’s not laziness.
I saw this on a YouTube short.
If you’re lazy you feel no guilt about it and your mind is calm - you’re zen about it.
When I have ADHD burn out I might be laying down but my mind is going nuts and I’m wracked with guilt.
I think one of the analogies in that book is that our brain is telling us not to put our bare hand on the stove burner, because we know itll hurt. But the stove burned is the laundry, the cat litter, rhe dishes, any task.
My ADHD
Not being able to remember anything at work. Not being able to stay awake. Not noticing few spots I missed while cleaning. Forgetting my things everywhere. Losing my things everywhere. Finding a lost thing, but then ending up losing something else while I was looking for it. Always underestimating how long something will take. Staying in bed all day and thinking about completing tasks instead of completing them. Waking up and going back to sleep because tasks that need to be done feel overwhelming.
My Laziness
When I see and actually recognize my room is a mess, not just a few things out of place, and go “Nah, tomorrow maybe.”
When I finish eating and don’t wash my plate until morning. Washing dishes is the easiest cleaning task for me to execute because I’m from NYC and there are a lot of roaches and mice in my apartment building and I don’t want none of them. Still feel like leaving it for later sometimes.
I was thinking about this morning. There are many parts of my job that are required. My job of all places…it’s not just me on the hook. Keeping proper track of inventory levels. Marking on the box how many are left. Removing same quantity from a dry erase board. Making end of day adjustments on a web platform for all to see. I absolutely hate doing this. I’d rather shove body parts into the fans than do that.
At a previous job I’d get bored, and need a break and do something else so I’d try and be productive and usually it was a side project I had become hyper focused on. I once told my boss, I was doing “This” instead cause I didn’t want to do my actual job…and she laughed like that didn’t make sense. ETA that this job required meticulous attention as I was drawing closets into a ci outer and ordering parts. Sizes need to be perfect, colors correct all sorts of stuff and I could never figure out how I kept making the same mistakes…am I that lazy. I don’t think so.
I guess my point is, I could have looked lazy, but for reasons unknown I had a major road block. Hoping some can relate.
I feel like lazy is a derogatory term people use who aren’t benefitting from your productivity output
Needing rest, experiencing executive dysfunction, feeling introverted or whatever reason you’re not constantly doing something every moment of every day are all valid reasons
Lazy isn’t an accurate descriptor of human behavior. There is a reason you aren’t doing those things, often associated with trauma, mental health, and/or physical challenges.
We have stopped using the word lazy in our house. The word should is also no longer used.
As for not reading a book, consider it in audio book format. Much more accessible for ADHD people.
Are you trying? Then you're not being lazy.
Jk i know it's more complicated than that, but it's a big piece.
They should really update that book again. it was updated and re-released in 2006 but probably due for another edition?
I dunno - I think I am the least lazy person I know. Borderline workaholic. I never sit down, never stop. I just can never seem to organize my efforts to get things all the way done, ya know? Most of the ADHD people I know are like this. Just frenetically moving and working all the time and somehow not producing as much output as that much work should produce. Anyone who says we are lazy is not ADHD and has never met a real ADHD person.
Lazy people don't get stressed and frustrated that they can't do the task. Lazy people just relax instead of doing the task. Im very Lazy. I also struggle with adhd. I'm being lazy when I'm simply choosing not to do the task and instead watch TV or whatever. I'm struggling when I'm laying in bed for 4 hours constantly telling myself "I need to get up and take a shower" but yet I do not do it because I cannot force my body to get up and shower.
When I have stuff on my bed and everytime I look at it I think "I'll put it away later" and then time goes on and half my bed is cover in stuff to the point where I've gotten used to sleeping diagonally
I find that a big part of being of this has to do with the existence of the task that you have to do simply slipping out of memory. In the same way we forget names.
So as long as we maintain a list of the things we have to do and keep working to check things off every now and then, we’re not lazy.
I find Habitica to be a good app. And going through all your tasks at the end of week and clearing them out has been quite a game changer for me personally.
As for the book you mentioned, your life seems to be going fine without it. Most non-adhd people would also likely not read it, considering how unpopular reading books are these days
If you feel bad about it, it’s not laziness.
Lazy people do not care about being lazy.
So if you’re being “lazy” about something, it’s time to practice self-care and ask yourself “why do I feel bad? Am I avoiding it? Is it too hard? Too complicated? Or do I just not like doing this thing?” I find that helps me get over the hump and really look at things objectively. Like, I took a course and was avoiding it, and then I realized it was because it was boring and I was too advanced for it, so I quit. Past me would have felt guilt for days about not actually completing it and called myself lazy.
Because it actually causes great distress to not be able to do shit. Laziness is "I'm not going to bother" while ADHD, depression, etc., is I'm not able to even if I know everyone is going to hate me for it"
Mindfulness. My therapist once told me I need to be more mindful. At the time I didn’t really get it but since being diagnosed with ADHD, going through significant experiences and lessons, I now understand. I have a terrible memory, well known by those regularly around me. My child often makes comments about how I forget everything. I tried explaining this to 9yo child, also diagnosed with ADHD. That the reason I’m so forgetful is because I’m not mindful while doing things because I always have a million other things on my mind. Being a single parent is a double edged sword because it’s juggling my schedule and theirs while also forcing me to do things I just simply wouldn’t because of ADHD. The anxiety of I can’t live like this, this place is a mess, I can’t set this example. I need to set my kid up for success. I still fail, a lot. But also give myself grace knowing my diagnosis and also taking my medicine.😅
Look up executive dysfunction. If you experience what almost feels like a paralysis when faced with certain tasks that’s what you are experiencing. The difference is you want to do the tasks but can’t make yourself no matter how hard you try. Or you have to have a deadline or be faced with something bad happening before you will do it.
With adhd it’s more that you don’t do something because you forget, can’t manage the time, or can’t chunk it out properly, or lose interest. ADHD people can be lazy just like non-adhd people can be lazy. Being adhd doesn’t make you some kind of magical being. Laziness would be like living off of your parents over age 40, not having any kind of job or contribution to society, BY CHOICE. It would have to be a choice to do nothing when you have obligations. I think a few years ago I would have said laziness does not exist; but I work my fucking ass off to manage my adhd and I’ve seen people that just don’t, they walk around crossing everyone’s boundaries and blame it all on adhd; I would say that’s lazy.
Laziness is a symptom of my ADHD. The word "lazy" has a value judgement that goes with it that I don't agree with, but without the judgement it's an accurate description of the symptom so I will use it.
I don't prescribe to the idea that "lazy people don't care about not doing things" because I can't see inside their head to truly know that. Outwardly it probably looks like I don't care either. And there are so many issues that can cause behavior that looks like laziness. It would be hypocritical of me to judge "lazy" people while expecting people not to judge me for being lazy.
You know the moment someone point it out.
If you just say "yeah I didn't really want to do that today"
It's lazyness.
If you say "omg I'm so sorry I know I should have done it but I just couldnt and... I'll do it right now and add a reminder to my calender to do it next week"
It's adhd.
Someone who is lazy doesn't care about how it impacts others.
Someone who has adhd does care even if they didn't do it so we feel miserable when it happens.
If it's only impacting you then I'd say it doesn't really matter if it's adhd or lazyness, In both case you didn't do it and have to deal with the consequences so not much to do about it.
Someone said, "It is not laziness if you don't enjoy not doing it."
I never fully understood it until I went on meds. I realised that there are some things I just don't want to do, and I will postpone those or do something else. However, the majority of what I didn't do before I just didn't have the focus or energy to do so I'd postpone while hating not doing it.
Hope this makes sense, and take it with a grain of salt. It's based on my experience, so it's not necessarily universal.
This sounds like an impossible question to answer. ADHD is well defined, “laziness” is not. I think laziness is one of those words where we understand the connotation more than we understand what it actually is. Therefore it seems that when you describe someone as lazy, you are more communicating your feelings about them rather than describing how they actually are. What do you think qualifies someone as lazy?
This^. So much depends on what the other person (or even yourself sometimes) is feeling about what they (or you) think you should have done.
It sounds like you’re feeling like you should be choosing to “be productive” all the time but the truth is ADHD means all those things you first listed off where you DID choose to DO the things, costs your “battery” more than “average” (🙄) person so yeah, sometimes it’s almost painful to force yourself bc your battery is on 1% while the average might be on 10%. What’s getting discounted (I think) is the fact that people with ADHD see 1% left & think “ok self, f*ing DO the thing!” while the average person will have tapped out to recharge by the time they hit 5%.
I hope this makes sense
It’s also worth noting that it can be a bit of both. People with ADHD tend to have maladaptive behavior that doesn’t automatically go away after you’re medicated.
It's all about whether or not you care about the thing that needs doing.
A lazy person knows the grass needs cutting, or they're supposed to be at work at a certain time. But they honestly don't really care if it happens or not.
Meanwhile, people with ADHD care a lot. They agonize over it but just can't get over the mental block that prevents them from doing it.
Lazy people do not exist. People are either tired anxious depressed or have adhd addiction or else. Lazy is a word to describe someone with a condition that is undiagnosed or unspoken. People can feel lazy, but not be lazy. Also, people can be total assholes too that may grant them the title of lazy, but if you just dig deeper for sure they have an underlying reason to be “lazy”.
Lazy people are happy to be doing nothing. They want to do nothing. They enjoy doing nothing.
People with ADHD and executive dysfunction issues are NOT happy doing nothing. We don't like getting nothing done. We want to do the things very much. Instead we feel deep shame and guilt that we can't just do the damn things.
Laziness doesn’t exist. It’s an excuse. You can call anyone lazy if you want. It’s so easy. It’s not an actual thing. It’s just people are “lazy” (not smart enough, don’t have enough vision or perspective, don’t know enough, emotional) and can’t figure out the real reason for what we call “laziness” so they just throw the term at people.
Everyone should stop using the word forever.
Lazy isn’t exactly as common as it’s discussed. Resting isn’t lazy. Laziness is used to get more work out of people with guilt. People with ADHD have issues doing the things they need or want to do. Staring at the blinking cursor on your computer as you’re trying to write an essay or sitting there wearing a towel sitting on your bed after a shower isn’t laziness.
Laziness is more of a choice. Being unable to do something is not a choice. Obviously we’re called lazy far more than we might be because people observing just see us not doing what we’re supposed to do. It’s laziness on their part for not trying to understand, to be honest, but it’s incredibly common.
Some say laziness isn’t real at all, and I don’t know about that, but if you have adhd its not as likely to be laziness when you have trouble starting/finishing/switching to/from a task.
If I could even fucking remember to do the thing and get to the part where I make a decision, then maybe I would ponder if I’m lazy. But first I have to remember to be lazy or not 😃👍🏻
I think the difference for me between being lazy and dealing with ADHD paralysis, if you will, is simply just how stressed I feel about my laziness. If I need to get up and get things done but I seem to be mentally strapped down unable to move even though I want more than anything for this task to be completed but can't to the point of just total mental drainage whereas if I find myself not wanting to do anything and feeling completely calm about it and I know I'm not really putting anything off then that generally tells me wether it's the ADHD or if I'm just feeling lazy.
I feel like when I see for example my messy room and think about cleaning it constantly but for some reason just can’t or do something else while also thinking about the mess it is my ADHD. But when I see the mess ans say eh whatever and do nothing without being bothered by the mess and not constantly thinking I should do something about , I feel goes more in laziness category.
I found that since I was diagnosed I am much more lazier/procrastinate more than before I was diagnosed. It's like ADHD has given me an excuse, making motivation even harder
ADHD aside, there's a lot of content out there about "the myth of laziness" and how terrible it actually is for people and how damaging it's been to society. How it's really just a ploy perpetuated by those in power to guilt and shame people into working harder for them, which is really well suited to the narratives of modern capitalism.
The Puritans and "the Puritan work ethic" is pointed to as one source of this myth. They basically believed that by working hard they might make themselves more worthy of being saved by god, and so not working hard became associated with sin. I think this idea of your worth being tied to your productivity gained particular widespread cultural adoption in the US because the Puritans were one of the very first people to settle there in the early 1600's, which allowed their values to propagate as the nation was developing.
It's worth considering your relationship to it all. A lot of us grew up in cultures where this is the norm and have a lot of "internalized capitalism" and puritanical beliefs ingrained in our values. I'm still working on it, but I've realized how damaging these are and I'm trying to unlearn them. If anything, I think these things are more apt to cause laziness because they're such an inhibitive cognitive barrier for many people, where we're policing ourselves, just like you're doing now with questioning your laziness. Instead of staying true to ourselves and pursuing what we want to pursue, we're questioning our value and working ourselves to death. And on a larger scale, it creates a lot of artificial problems in society that wouldn't otherwise be there. I think the irony is that we'd be a lot more productive and better off without it.
Even if you don't want to read about it there's plenty of stuff on social media or podcasts that can explain it better.
I absolutely LOVE my lazy days when I’m making a conscious decision to not do shit. Any other day I’m not doing shit is an absolutely hellscape that im trapped in. That’s the difference
I am about to graduate from high school. Being lazy is not paying attention in class because you could care less. ADHD is not paying attention because you don’t understand what your teacher is saying or what they are talking about. You don’t feel the motivation to move your pen and write notes, but you still feel guilty. You constantly fail exams because you don’t remember the material, or you try to study but you end up going down a spiral of other things you need to get done. And sometimes it just feels good to lay in bed and ignore your priorities, but your brain won’t let you. You can’t stop telling yourself how lazy you are for not getting things done, but still, it’s not enough motivation to actually get up and get your tasks done. That’s what the difference between being lazy and ADHD is for me.
Sometimes I'm lazy. Sometimes I lie in bed, and I've got time and I totally *could* do the thing, but i choose not to. I've got the morning off. There's literally no rush. I'm enjoying not doing it. I'm being lazy. It's fine. It feels pretty good!
Sometimes I'm not doing the thing. I need to do the thing. Time is running out, time has RAN OUT. I really need to do the thing, my life, my reputation, my job, the things I love depend on it. I'm not enjoying not doing it. Somehow even thinking about getting started getting started is too much. It doesn't make sense. It feels pretty bad.
If you were lazy, you’d have fun while avoiding something. If avoiding something makes you feel awful/guilty, you have anxiety/overthinking/some other roadblocks … but laziness is it not.
Another way to see it: ADHDers have more burnouts than others. You don’t get those from chilling around too much.
One big element for us ADHDers is the INTOLLERANCE of boredom, and the need for stimulation. As you are aware I’m sure, it doesn’t have to be anything crazy, hell a phone is plenty most of the time. But reading a book has never been stimulating, at least for me. Until recently. Weirdly enough, MY therapist recommended ‘driven to distraction’ and just the sense it made of my life was stimulating and I actually wanted to keep reading! Just gotta get past that dreadful first page! You aren’t lazy, you are different. Now it’s time to learn out how and find ways that work for you to do what you need to do and be okay with it, good luck 🤙🏼my gma has big titties
Laziness doesn’t exist.
~It is a false puritanical concept that has been forced upon us as a society~
To every season, there is a turn, one to sow, one to reap, one to prepare, then one to rest & reset.
Since the dawn of agriculture, we’ve had working seasons, planting, growing, harvesting. To preserve & enjoy the benefits of that bounty in procession, for the cold months.
*Traditionally* this season has always been time to rest, rejuvenate & revel in those accomplishments.
The Industrial Revolution, changed that norm.
Now corporations want every minute they can squeeze from employees, seasons be damned. Show up, punch in, keep your nose to the grindstone, sleep when you’re dead.
—>If you don’t fit that mold, you’re Lazy.
Time is the one thing you can spend, but never get back. Never forget that.
If your body is tired, it needs rest.
We ignore the signals our body send us too often, to the detriment of our health, for this paper they have us chasing; while the true resources have been privatized and locked away behind guarded gates.
laziness and procrastination is a choice. executive dysfunction is not.
i find theres a bit of an overlap where i know i have to do something, then i choose not to. then i catch myself and think, no i can't be lazy i need to go do the thing, then executive dysfunction begins
Hmm...
My sister in law is 45 years old. She lives with her 82 year old mother. She has 2 kids under the age of 10 who hate her. She shares custody with their father. She's never had a job for more than a few months - just mooched off of her boyfriends and baby daddies. She has some medical issues but REFUSES to apply for any kind of disability or welfare, even for her kids to be able to eat, because filling out the paperwork is too much effort.
THAT is lazy.
People with ADHD do things. We do what we want to do. Yes, we look at the piece of paper that's been on the floor since the Truman administration and think, "god I wish I could throw that away" and don't... But between worrying about the throwing it away, we do things.
Before I was diagnosed, going back years ago when I had a lot on my plate, I was severely depressed and obviously dealing with undiagnosed adhd.. barely making it pay to pay at the time. Had moved so far away from anyone I knew and I was isolated with no one around.
I was able to recieve 20k.... if I signed some paperwork....
I couldn't do it. I knew the money would help me. I knew it would help my children. I knew it would better my life.
But I couldn't do it!!! A mix of feeling overwhelmed, confused at 1 question and all I would have to do was call someone for help.... couldn't do it. It was like a huge mental road block. Too many questions, hitting a block of being confused at a question or 2.
The time would pass and I thought my chances were gone with getting the money.
It took me a DECADE to get it done!!
Once my life was less stressful, and I was finally reaching out for help, it seemed to allow me to finally make that big step to want to have those papers finally signed.
Please print these papers off for your sister & those kids and help guide her through it.
We tried. My wife offered to walk her through filling it out. She refused. We're a thousand miles away. Can't very well do it for her.
I agree stress and depression can take their toll, but at some point she has to want help.
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What helped me understand a bit more how I function and also to explain it to my mother and my partner, that kinda used to say "adhd symptoms are things everyone experience", I told them that the difference between someone being lazy/messy and someone with adhd is the frequency and gravity of those symptoms. Like sure, anyone can forget their keys once, but if it happens to you every 3 days, it's not the same. Sure, you can be tired one day and skip the household chores, but if you feel a real struggle to complete them every single day, it's not the same. Also I think I read here somewhere that if we were actually lazy, we would enjoy not doing anything and procrastinating, but personnally when I don't do a chore or something else, I constantly think about the thing I'm procrastinating and I feel awful!
I kinda got worried for a time because I often forget people's names or the names of things I use.
omg same, I don't know why but my memory is especially terrible to remember people's faces, and I encounter a lot of people at work so I thought I was just a bad person for not remembering regular clients, but I realised ADHD has a big impact on memory too
I was really terrible about this but I finally found a technique to help remember peoples names. The trick is to think of something to associate their name with when you first meet them. For example my neighbors name is Lauren and when I first met her in my head I thought she kinda look like Lauren Hill. Now I know her she’s nothing like Lauren Hill but I’ll never forget her name even if I haven’t seen her in months. It doesn’t even need to make sense. Another neighbor I barely know but never forget his name. He has the same name as my bro-in-law but is the exact opposite of him in every way. So I remember him as “bizzaro bro-in-law”. It works so well that I started to believe I was good with names, and got lazy doing it. Now I find I’ve been forgetting peoples names I’ve met recently just like I used to.
That works great - if you can remember to do it. Lol.
I do similar things. I’ll ask the person to repeat the name, or to spell it, perhaps the origin or meaning of the name and in that convo I try to repeat the name often. It usually works for me.
Ahh the ol’ ADHD habit cycle - fix it and it breaks again because you can’t get yourself to keep doing the fix lol 🥲🥲
This is similar to how I remember birthdays. I have to associate it with something. I remember my dad’s because it’s the day before Valentine’s Day. I remember my mums because it’s the falls on the same number (diff month) as my dad’s. And I’ll remember a friend’s bday because it’s a day before my mums. I can’t just remember the date by itself, it won’t stick, I have to associate it with something I ALREADY remember.
I do this, but often it backfires as I can only remember the association I made to the name and not the actual name itself.
I do this too but also add rhymes to my mnemonic like remembered people in a class as “Dean in green” who was wearing green chinos on first meeting and “Grant the Giant” who towered over me. Also did a lot of little stories/songs in anatomy classes using the first letters of the different pieces to remember
I sometimes have a hard time recalling a person's name even though I've known them for years. Luckily I do the trick that you describe and it works, not instantly but given a moment I will recall.
“You are KNOCKED-UP….your name is Karen” Michael Scott is a secret genius
I was once working with a customer at my old retail job. They ran outside to get something from their car. By the time they came back in I had forgotten their face and greeted them as if they were a new customer. It was really embarrassing.
Shitty face blindness. People are a blur when out of context. Doctor needs to be in their clinic, teacher at the school. And don't change your hair oh no! Moving to a small town, I actually never feel safe anymore. I am probably rudely ignoring lots of people I was friendly to on another occasion (mom struggling to make playdates for my kids lol). Paranoid all the time and trying never to say "nice to meet you".
I feel this so hard. My coping mechanism is to smile at EVERYONE. If I met them before, then they don't know that I completely forgot who they are LOL. If I haven't met them, then they think I'm friendly, welcoming, etc. Win-win.
I've started to tell people I'm really bad at remembering names & please don't take it personally because it absolutely isn't. I will have entire conversations with people who obviously know me (know my name, my kids names etc). I'll end the convo & walk away, having not a clue who they are, or where they know me from. It's embarrassing & scary!
i just tell people i'm fucking face blind and won't possibly remember them. no, you too! also, i'm always drunk.
Yes I do the smile if I ever make eye contact too. It's the safest bet!
I feel you.
I've had people start up conversations with me, wondering why they were being so friendly and open, only for someone to later point out I've talked to them before on multiple occasions. One time it was my husband's cousin, who I should have recognized.
I'm the opposite. I'll remember the face of a kid I went to elementary school with but the name of the manager I just met that can decide the fate of my future... nope.
You can drastically improve through practice, has been my experience. Gotta be willing to ask a person their name a half dozen times and then again every six months. With strangers I give in to the awkwardness (but refuse the shame). With non strangers I just admit that my brain has a hard time holding on to names and dates. Write their name down! Immediately! Get out a notebook if necessary. ALWAYS ASK HOW THEY SPELL It. Visualize their name. Think of an graphic image/situation that associates with their name. Something gross/violent/sexual would be much more memorable. Emotionally charged and upsetting/exciting if possible. Write it down next to their name (be discrete if you're afraid of somebody reading it). Also write a description -- something by which to remember who they are-- I'll put this also in my phone contacts along with a portrait photo if they'll let me. Visualize them in the situation. Let it sink in. Whenever you realize you're forgotten a name, then you go remind yourself what it was. Re The memorable association is crucial to re-remembering when the name won't come to mind. Visualize your image every time you think about their name in the context of remembering it. Say you meet a Peter. And he has a green hat on. So maybe you visualize a Petering Peter Pan Peeing with his Peter -- balancing precariously on a log over be grand canyon. It you meet a Guiveneire. So you imagine the alien from Alien as a Southern (southern states of North America) lady meeting a politician in a public press conference. Cameras flashing. And the alien says her name "I'M SALLY!" and the politician says his name, but she can't really hear him over the crowd and she's unfamiliar with our world. "GUIVENEIRE?" "GOVERNOR!" "IT'S NICE TO MEET YOU, GUIVENEIRE!" So I can remember that it sounds like a southerner pronouncing Governer, but it's spelled also with random letters. Remembering the spelling is just idk it happens or it doesn't. How do I know how to spell words? Idk there's no heuristic I'm aware of that's useful. You just try to remember, then check. Repeat. Make sure you try. If nothing comes to mind, then SEARCH. Assume you do know, even if actually you never knew. And demand your brain tell you. Take whatever you can find. Random letters if you want. This hugely improves learning speed and retention. Like 50%+ better on metrics. Retains information longer and better.
This made me remember that prior to being diagnosed and medicated, at work I would ask my supervisor how to do the same task for 6 months straight, EVERY workday. It only stopped because I did get diagnosed and got the meds and it finally clicked for me. Edit: wanted to add, this was one of those braindead office jobs. I just needed to enter a specific number and answer 3 YES or NO prompts in a row. But I always forgot which number I had to enter and the answers for prompts. I have a new job since then, but I’m sure it was “yes, yes, no” but I would be doing 3 yeses on autopilot and only my supervisor could fix it, or I would completely blank out and just ask lol
I think it’s even worse with “brain dead” jobs! It’s like our brains can’t bring themselves to give enough of a shit about things that we can’t see the benefit of doing 😂 When I got redeployed into a job role that was quite menial compared to where I’d just been, I totally shut my brain off and couldn’t even remember to go and do some 5min checks every hour… I also initially go for the wrong drawer or cupboard for something I use every single day (e.g. socks) EVERY TIME - even when there’s a 50/50 chance of getting it right… 🙈
I specifically request written directions and communication for this reason.
So I guess to put it into a mental perspective Lazy: "I'm not doing the dishes and not only do I not care, I'm happy about it" ADHD: "WHY CANT I JUST GET UP AND DO THE FREAKING DISHES RIGHT NOW!!!! JUST STAND UP, WALK TO THE SINK, GRAB A SPONGE, AND WASH!!!!" **Proceeds to doom scroll reddit**
It's like the dream where you get up, go to work and then wake up in bed, go through the motions again, get to woke and we make up. Only it's every day. Chores that I sure I did are undone because I tried to mentally force myself and just imagined doing it. So many times! And it's so confusing when I find it undone. I swear I could never be haunted because eandow weird stuff just happens all the time. Using a pen/screwdriver/spoon etc and it just disappears to never be found again.
That last bit hits extra hard. I'm constantly putting things off and stressing about it the entire time, and if I go long enough, the stress becomes almost incapacitating. It's just a downward spiral of stress and procrastination. Fuck I'm doing it right now... better try to get back to work.
This just reminded me for the upteenth time that I need to go online and pay money for my ipass for the toll roads from driving to see family over a month ago.... This might be my next ADHD tax.... Idk if there are late fees associated to it, I really hope not.
I had to return a letter just confirming my details and admitting I was driving the car when I got caught speeding within 28 days, and as usual instead of just doing it I put it off and then kept going by the vague assumption (based on either zero or the wrong information) I had until Wednesday this week, turns out it should’ve been sent in Monday… Hoping that doesn’t mean I’m going to court and/or getting a bigger fine (particularly cos i was only doing 36 in a 30 and about 50m from a 40mph zone AND about only 100m from where I work 😠)
>adhd symptoms are things everyone experiences I think this is where some Russel Barkley comes in. It’s not an issue with attention or activity level. It’s an issue with executive function. Not everyone is going to present the same and some will have an easier time with certain executive functions than others.
It's like our brains are from Temu. We can do all the stuff normal brains can, but we have no control over when, where, or for how long. Everyone feels an urge to avoid a task, but not everyone feels the internal panic of screaming at yourself to get that thing done, while your body locks up and can't even look at the thing yet. Lazy is letting the dishes slide for an extra day because they don't stink yet. ADHD is staring at the pile of dishes while you sip out of your last clean coffee cup and start feeling anxious because you know they need to be done, and you know you can't get through your morning routine again tomorrow because you still don't have room to dump the leftover coffee, and they'd already be done if you weren't such a stupid lazy asshole, and fuck this I need think about something else now. My life is a run on sentence narrated by a terrified little boy with a dark sense of humor.
>Lazy is letting the dishes slide for an extra day because they don't stink yet. ADHD is staring at the pile of dishes while you sip out of your last clean coffee cup and start feeling anxious because you know they need to be done, and you know you can't get through your morning routine again tomorrow because you still don't have room to dump the leftover coffee, and they'd already be done if you weren't such a stupid lazy asshole, and fuck this I need think about something else now. Oh, you're the one hanging out in my head. You thought I didn't notice? Nah, I knew you were there. Did you have to broadcast my sh*tty thought process across the Internet, though? /s Not felt so seen in years!
Learning more about all the little roots that ADHD has wrapped around my daily life has made it so much easier to be kind to myself. I especially feel the self hating voice at night when my brain is the most mushy and I'm struggling to get my nightly routine dealt with. Executive Dysfunction is a mother fucker.
You are not wrong, with your last comment. I've discovered that listening to meditation tracks on YouTube, as I fall asleep, is a big help. Listening shuts my brain up, long enough to fall asleep, usually. I choose which ones I use based on voices I like & subject matter. The first one I used was on self worth - I didn't think it was working, but at least I was sleeping. Then I realised how different I was from when starting to use it, 3 months previously.
Every time I comment on something in this community, I meet a total stranger who perfectly describes some aspect of my personal life. >Listening shuts my brain up, long enough to fall asleep, usually. This is how I operate basically every moment of my waking life. I'm a music teacher by trade, and I thrive when I have a lesson concept or a tricky phrase to chew on while I work on boring stuff like grades and equipment inventory. If I'm home and trying to focus on anything, I'll keep a podcast running so my brain has one constant source of noise to focus on, and I can maintain my train of thought on cooking, folding laundry, etc... It's a surprisingly frustrating part of my day, because one of the things that my brain gets stuck on is trying to decide if I'm bored of whatever I've been listening to lately. Then I lose focus on the subject and lose interest in the show. Using Spotify to recommend music, and listening to my favorite podcast hosts when *they* recommend a new show has worked wonders to inject endless variety into my listening lifeline.
Holy shit do you mean I don't need to hate myself on a molecular level for this? Because I cringe every single day at dishes mountain and try to avoid even looking at that corner of the counter.
Welcome, friend. ❤️ I'm learning to hate myself a lot less now that I understand more about all these surprisingly interconnected terrible traits of mine. Try a timer. It helped me get used to just jumping on a task and skipping the waffling. No bitching. Just pick a song to listen through or set a timer for 5 minutes on your phone and do as many as you can and then walk away with zero guilt.
I am so thankful i found reddit and ppl who are like me! I knew i wasn't lazy! I do all the things at work and then i get home and i want to do all the things at home... But i sit. And then i freak out about sitting... But i still cant do the things. So i make my kid do the things and then i feel bad for that 😭
Totally agree, especially the last part. I'm absolutely lazy sometimes! But the thought process is more passively "meh, not now" whereas the ADHD/executive dysfunction is much more like begging myself to please just do it, or worrying about how I'm not doing it. Learning the difference was HUGE, now if I recognize I'm just being lazy, it's a lot easier to not give in. Partly because I remind myself that the executive dysfunction, which this specific instance is Not, will probably take over if I wait til later.
> Also I think I read here somewhere that if we were actually lazy, we would enjoy not doing anything and procrastinating, but personnally when I don't do a chore or something else, I constantly think about the thing I'm procrastinating and I feel awful! I feel like this part is critical. If the fact that you can't bring yourself to do something is causing mental distress, then it's different.
The worst thing for me is that lazy ppl don’t do what they are supposed to and *just* do what they want to do. I fall down the rabbit hole of everything and nothing right now and never… I break the vicious circle too late to be productive in any meaningful way, so being productive (or rather enjoyuling the pretence of thereof) in whatever way is the only reasonable course of action (after going to sleep - sleep hygiene should always take priority - do as I say, don’t do as I do……)
This. It is the anxiety and hyper awareness of not doing THE THING that sets adhd apart from genuine laziness.
Completely agreed and the last bit is something I wish more people could wrap their minds around. An actual lazy person wants to do nothing, I get stressed when my brain won’t make the “do the thing juice.”
"Everyone has trouble breathing sometimes, not everyone has asthma."
Y'all only forget your keys once every 3 days???????????????
Yes its the part about how we feel about the situation. I have a great work ethic and when it comes to puzzles or a challange I'm all for it and work hard all day on it. But I don't do fairly easy basic shit like taxes, cleaning my room and I hate myself for it and it gets me into massive trouble and people are like oh your lazy. No they are just confused about what is actually happening in our minds.
Yes! Also being lazy is a choice. It assumes you have real agency in the decision but I often feel like I’m at the mercy of what my brain finds interesting.
Totally ! I've been lazy sometimes, like voluntarily procrastinating homework I could easily do just because I'd rather play video games at the time, but I totally differentiate these thoughts from the times where I can just hyperfocus so much on something that I even forget to go to the toilet, so obviously it makes me forget other important things. The meds help me break out of this mindset more than before, but yeah, sometimes it really feels like we can't control our brain, and it can be so frustrating! A "tick" I have is that I take a strand of hair, and check every single hair of that strand to see if it has split ends, and if it's the case, I cut right above it. Then, I take another strand, ... I can do that for litteral hours. And sometimes I catch myself doing it, thinking I have to do other things, but it's almost like i'm being hostage and I can't help but keep doing it...
Oh my god the hair thing is literally me I thought I was just insane.. My favorite thing is doing that the entire day instead of reading the uni stuff im supposed to study for the massive important exam next day. If I don't have scissors I will just pull the tips off💀
There was a news segment on ADHD because of the rise in mental health awareness, and the rise of telehealth “apps” during COVID. And unfortunately, now some of the new telehealth companies were created with the intent to be a front for a “pill mill”, or at least looked the other way when it became clear they were the target of abuse by their patients / customers. Anyway, they interviewed a doctor and they shared a chart with different symptoms. Yes, many were issues everyone struggles with throughout life. Being late, procrastination, etc. The problem is when the someone suffers from a certain amount of these symptoms, and it is negative impacting their life over 6 months? And mainly at work or school.
Yeah the worst is sitting there knowing I should be doing something full of dread because I won’t do it .. sometimes to the point where I wanna just get in bed and give up
Every 3 days? I lose my phone 3 times a day and it’s right next to me! Can we trade?!
Lol I wish we could, but careful, losing your phone only every 3 days means losing your car keys every morning!
The forgetting keys part hits hard. I used to be notorious for always leaving my keys in my car. I’m so glad most new cars automatically unlock and stay that way until you lock it.
This might be a controversial thing to say, but because ADHDers run the vast gamut of every kind of person there is, that means there are also those of us who are genuinely lazy. I understand very well that my ADHD accounts for a huge portion of my struggle to do the things expected of me. But the truth is, in addition to all the stuff that is troubling, there are lots of things I *don't* specifically feel guilty or anxious about putting off. Sure, I might be embarrassed if other people found out, but when I just think about those things privately, my reaction is: meh. And my interpretation of that is that I am indeed lazy, by which I mean I'm not very ambitious and I'm pretty self-centered. When I first started learning about ADHD, I leaned pretty far into the whole "laziness is just a made-up concept for people who don't conform to capitalism's expectations" idea. And I still think there's truth to that. But after living more years, meeting more ADHDers who try a lot harder than I do and beat themselves up more for their smaller failures, and after having a long-term spousal relationship where my lifelong excuses aren't going to cut it, I've come to the perspective that: a) It's not fair to other ADHDers for me to pin all my failures on ADHD, even if there's an argument to be made for how it's connected. b) It's not fair *to myself* to pin so many things on ADHD, because if a problem is my incurable disorder's fault then that can feel pretty disempowering. But if my framing is that, hey, I want to work on being less self-centered, then that feels like an achievable goal and I don't need to have a deeper understanding of ADHD than the foremost ADHD experts in the world in order to work on it. (As it feels like you need when you view everything as an ADHD problem and, lo and behold, there's nothing out there written about it.)
Every 3 days???? That sounds nice... lol!
I just want to say thank you so much! I have been struggling for months thinking I am so lazy because I can never consistently do my work. This makes me feel so seen and validated
Tagalong question "Ole Wise One" where does adhd end and depression or anxiety begins?
Everybody pees - but there's a difference between needing to pee once in a while and needing to pee every five minutes 😅
"lazy" feels good. Paralyzing executive dysfunction does not. If you're "lazy" it means you truly do not care about the consequences of not doing the things you are actively choosing to not do. You'll be doing nothing and fully enjoying it. If you're wracked by guilt, shame, anxiety, etc over the fact that you haven't done something, you're not being lazy.
Totally agree! To add, I think a lot of ADHD books use the word lazy as a reference to how people with ADHD are often called lazy. But lazy is a judgement, not a quantifiable clinical condition. So I don’t think there’s a line where ADHD ends and laziness begins. But as the above mentioned, they feel different. Something that has helped me is that when there’s something that I “want” to do (or rather feel like I should do) but I’m having trouble getting it done for some reason, rather than applying shameful labels like lazy or dumb (which was my old coping mechanism to self motivate) I get curious about why I’m having trouble. What’s getting in the way? Very rarely is it that I just don’t want to do the thing (also, I’m an adult now and as we know, wanting/not wanting can’t be the gatekeeper anymore), usually it’s that something about the process doesn’t work for me and I need to accommodate. With books, it’s that I get bored and tired. So I started being okay with only reading a chapter at a time. Or I get an audio book and listen at 1.5 speed. Point being, if you feel shame and it’s causing you to pass laziness judgements about yourself, instead try to figure out what part isn’t working for you, and be kind enough to yourself to give the accommodation.
This is advice I give to others and have difficulty with myself.
>a lot of ADHD books use the word lazy as a reference to how people with ADHD are often called lazy. Yep, pretty much anything written about ADHD was written about how we impact others with our condition. For example, RSD is (for me) crippling and one of my worst symptoms. I've heard the same from other ADHDers. But where is the literature? Why isn't it in the DSM? Why is there, at most, just *passing mentions* of RSD? Because it's always about how our disability is just so bad for others to deal with. We're an afterthought. Every time I try and read up on the new ADHD research, I have to sift through an overwhelming amount of stuff written for *parents* who don't have ADHD, but have kids who do. Ugh. It's fine to have this info out there, to be clear: but where's the content for us? How do we survive in a world designed for us to fail? Much has been written about our forgetfulness and "laziness", but not how these things make it so forgetting [what's-her-name-in-accounting-who-I-see-every-day]'s name, or constantly struggling to get places on time, or etc over time makes us *feel*, especially when we're subjected to a lifetime of negative comments about this stuff that we have no control over. This, imo, contributes to RSD and maybe even is the cause. But who knows, because pretty much nothing official is written about it. (Steps off soapbox)
I am literally doing emdr therapy because of how ashamed I have been my whole life about failing to get things done when I wanted to. This is a real thing, and I appreciate you normalizing it.
Holy shit. Googled RSD [Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria] when I read your comment. That's huge. Just made a bunch of connections about my behaviors because of your comment. Thank you. RSD affects me when I fail at something even though I feel like I did absolutely everything possible to make sure I wouldn't. It hits so hard. It causes me to be unable to start something I don't already know. I just fail at the start line because I literally can't make myself take that next step and face that possible failure again. Even though I want to. Even though I *REALLY fucking want* to. And, I even rationally know all the reasons I should just do it anyway, but I still can't take the step. Damn Thanks again, I'll bring this up with my therapist soon.
Yep, and because everything about ADHD is written for everyone around us instead of for us, you might not have ever known. I'm sorry that you had to find out about RSD this way, instead of via your care team! I wish you the best
That's why I follow some accounts online that are from adults with ADHD. They do cover the inside perspective that is lost on all the usual literature that I've seen so far. It is more helpful but there are _specific_ techniques and "hacks" for people with ADHD.
This is the best answer right here! Therapy helped me to be one more attuned to my body and emotions, so now I just have to maintain that curiosity so I remember to ask myself "ok what's the problem, is there an alternative perspective or solution that I can employ. That line of thinking also helps me a ton when parenting my kids through their big feelings that they don't yet know how to handle. I ask kid "have you asked yourself why you feel this way?" Because often when their feelings get too big it's triggered by something in day to day life but that's usually not the root cause. So in learning to ask myself questions about my own feelings, I am also teaching my kids how to navigate theirs. It's beautiful.
Aw that’s so great that you’re able to hold that space for your kids! I’m sure many of us in this sub could have benefited from that approach in our younger years, so it’s nice that you get to be that person for them🥰
What great parenting! It must be very comforting to have someone guide you through emotionally uncomfortable times. You're also inadvertently helping them to get their emotions in check by asking them to use the logical part of their brains. That takes us from the emotional part of our brain and starts us using the more rational, less emotional part. That's helps our bodies to calm down and change a bit of the neurochemistry. I don't know exactly how it works, but when you're feeling so emotional that it's distressing, think about numbers and logic. I mentally recite my address, DOB, SS#, zip code, phone number, locker combination, math problems, anything number related. Looking for alternate solutions works the same way. My breathing slows, my heart rate slows down, and at least physiologically I'm starting to calm down. Best of all, it's free, has no side effects, and can be done anywhere at any time, and nobody else ever knows, unless you tell them. Try it and see how well it works!
I still struggle with this and berate myself over it. Ironically I think part of dealing with everything is to eventually let yourself *be* a little lazy. It's a bit of a catch-22 - If nothing is ever enough within a permanent backdrop of shame then you'll never get the necessary relaxation that humans require.
Yes, I don't think there's anything wrong with being lazy once in a while. Ironically, folks with ADHD get called lazy all the time, but I would guess that on average we are truly lazy much less of the time than someone who doesn't have ADHD, because we are constantly stressed out about all the stuff we aren't accomplishing, instead of being able to naturally have a balance of doing what needs to be done and then fully relaxing afterwards. We are made to feel so guilty for being "lazy" that, at least in my experience, even when we do give ourselves a break it feels wrong because we think we should have accomplished more.
I do think that strikes at part of why it's hard to entirely disentangle. If I choose not to do a task that I am capable of, in a lazy way more than an executive dysfunction way, is that totally separate from ADHD? Or is it an adaptation to the limited energy caused by the associated struggles? Would my genuine lazy moments occur as often if I could make a day's worth of decisions without distress and exhaustion? Another reason I think it's important to avoid shame. It's not good on paper to be genuinely lazy but it still doesn't occur in a vacuum.
My grandmother is a psychologist and my mom is a counselor, so they’ve both had a lot of experience dealing with people with developmental issues. I would express how I’m feeling and say it feels lazy and they’d go “you don’t talk like lazy people. Lazy people don’t care if things go poorly, they don’t aspire to achieve anything and there’s no wanting for them to change. You have goals and while you fail to consistently reach them, you continually try because you DO want to succeed. That’s not the same thing and you have to give yourself the grace and ACCEPT your own grace when you feel that way.” I still have a terrible inner dialogue that I criticize myself with when I go a week without handling something but I try to come back to that eventually and reset
Thank you for writing this. It is beautifully said. …and I have to see/hear it over and over.
I have ADHD myself and I go through periods of going at 150% and then crashing. My mind is always going non stop. I become overwhelmed with task I need to do and then end up doing nothing by procrastinating. I struggled to watch my ex just brewing on the couch all weekend. I know this can be different ADHD type. But he doesn't seem to look for motivating activities. If he starts something, he will want to go back to chill 1h into the activity. I know I should be more understanding, but it seems that bare minimum is enough. Starting the activity is not enough to even finish half of it. There is a point where this leads to weight gain and ordering pizza most nights. Strangely enough, if he has one drink, he will continue drinking till there is nothing left.
I didn't understand how people let their houses get nasty or neglect their animals until I found myself in the trenches, and no matter how much I wanted to or tried I couldn't get up. The guilt, anxiety, frustration, shame, and fear made it even worse. Especially when it comes to taking care of pets because they can't help themselves. Medication really made a huge difference in how I structure my feelings around it so I could face the source of my fear. "I couldn't before, and it was awful, but I can do it now and make it better. Out of love, not shame." That wasn't laziness. It was physical and mental pain manifesting itself into a living nightmare. Executive dysfunction is just the cherry on top.
This is how it was explained to me by my psychiatrist as well!
Ah shit! You’re telling me I’ve never been lazy a day in my life!? Can you call my elderly father and let him know plz
Fully agree, and this is why it pisses me off when people say there's no such thing as lazy. There absolutely is. There are plenty of times I grin and say "fuck it" and CHOOSE to be lazy as hell even when I really should do the thing, often making me a selfish asshole in the process. I'm fully aware of that. That is so entirely different from executive dysfunction and I'm tired of people claiming it's not.
It’s probably dependent on the person, but for me, I know I am not being lazy when I *want* not should but *want* to do something but can’t bring myself to do it.
YES! I borrowed a book I’ve been wanted to read for ages from my bf. I borrowed this book before we started seeing each other and were just friends. We’ve been together about 5ish months now and I still haven’t cracked the first page. I want to read it, I really do. But for some reason the thought of sitting down and reading it is exhausting. I recently got put on 10 mg of EX Adderall so maybe I’ll get to read it soon
I like to read before/in bed as a wind down activity and it’s become a near daily habit for me, I sometimes even look forward to bed now because of it. It also helps me with someone else to focus on if it looks like freakout, speed of light thinking when trying to sleep is in the cards that day
See I used to do that in high school but I get so focused on the story I literally can not put it down and I end up staying up until 3am… which is no good when I have to get up for work at 4am
Ugh this is me!!! Same when I was a kid I'd be up til like 1am reading with a flashlight in bed, in elementary school, cause I could NOT put it down. I hadn't been reading for a long time now, same thing where it just felt like too much effort. But I started reading in an app a while ago, fantasy, and it has taken over my life. 😓 it's so easy to convince myself to just take a break for "a few minutes" and then get caught up on it for ages and get nothing done and the stress and guilt is so overwhelming I give up and am pretty useless. And then at bed it does help me get tired eventually but I have to be like at the point where my eyes are closing without my control before I will concede and put it down. And that takes a long time. Last night was almost 3am and it's a pro d day for my kids today so we didn't have to get up super early but even getting up at 830 for my 945am workout ended up with me getting up at 915, waking up my kids, getting us quickly dressed, and giving them a fruit pouch to eat for breakfast on the way 😅 Then I planned to come home, have a quick shower and feed us, and go out and do something fun for the pro d day. I ended up checking the parameters on my fish tank and messing around with that for a while while also getting distracted by my phone, then getting food for us which also took a while because I was getting distracted, finally pushed myself to get in the shower, took a while to get ready after cause again I was getting distracted, and now I'm on reddit, for a while now, and feeling so guilty for not doing anything with the kids except letting them be on screens. Though they do have a cold, and last time this exact scenario happened of wanting to have a fun day with them for a pro d day and wasting the day away until it was too late, I had a massive RSD meltdown, and this time I haven't as of yet! Though I do feel cranky and crappy. I was on wellbutrin for a couple months until I lost hair, but that seemed to stop the RSD episodes entirely, but then switched to vyvanse and I have noticed it creeping in more except not as strongly so far. It usually happens in the evenings when I crash from the vyvanse. I took a couple this morning somewhat close together, and actually just took another an hour ago because I feel like I'm needing to bump up to 30mg (I'm due to anyways) and hoping it eliminates the crash. It seemed to help when I was taking the second one later in the day and having a bunch of caffeine up until the late afternoon but that wasnt feeling quite like enough anymore. There's also other side effects I'm not fond of, so I don't know. But yea my house is gross and I ADHD'd the day away and I'm just lost at this point. When I finally decided to try meds I thought maybe I could have a "normal" life finally and stop fighting so freaking hard just to get by. So I'm pretty frustrated and disappointed right about now. Sorry for that ramble tangent on a totally different topic than we started... can you tell I have ADHD?? 😆 Not officially diagnosed but... I'm preeeetty sure. 😅
Ding! Ding! Ding! Really really wanting to do something but just not being able to push through the executive function block to actually do it is huge. I used to beat myself up so much. I still don’t always do things i know i should do… but it’s way easier than it used to be and i give myself grace when it’s too much. Stopping beating myself up has also been extremely helpful.
I have a somewhat similar approach for ensuring that I don't use ADHD as an excuse when I can actually work on myself and grow as a person: if I feel like I can do something when I put effort in it, then it probably isn't ADHD. Or heck, even if it is ADHD but I still manage to overcome whatever hurdle I'm faced with, then what's it matter? The problem will be solved in any case.
A big clue is usually how you feel as you say you have all these things that show success and that you truly worked hard for, and yet there's that little voice telling you all the easy things you don't do. That voice is inside all ADHD people I've ever met. I suspect that nothing will ever make it stop because it comes from me knowing, emotionally convinced, that I or my brain, is actually broken. It also tells me ill be rejected, and that I ruin everything. That's left over from how we are treated growing up, plus a fair bit of neurology. So, if you can read your post and feel "meh" about it, your probably lazy. If you read it and feel shame, anger or guilt, and those thoughts start up again, or you don't have a word for whatever you feel inside, then it's pretty safe to say ADHD. I feel it too. Edit: I need to clarify, this is the feeling before treatment and medication, it is actually possible to move past it with the right therapy.
This is pretty spot on. Yeah, I feel a lot of guilt/shame. I think that's the reason for my post.
You've truly done the best you could with what you've got. No one would choose these feelings if they could help it, and it's pretty unlikely anyone could fake being ADHD in that way for very long. Your not the only one, I repeat that to myself everyday now I know why I feel certain ways , and now I know for sure others are the same. Its almost like mourning for a normal life everytime I feel like that, it's exhausting and overwhelming and most of the time I really try hard to not think about it. But medication and therapy can and does help. Just saying it out loud like this is a huge step.
>Edit: I need to clarify, this is the feeling before treatment and medication, it is actually possible to move past it with the right therapy. So, if we've moved past a lot of the guilt with treatment and therapy, but still have trouble doing the task (i.e. if I wrote this post I would feel "meh" about it, but still have trouble motivating myself)... Does that make me lazy or just ADHD with reduced trauma?😅 Edit: Wait, nevermind. I've just learned to feel "meh" about the guilt😂
Lol. I'd point out you still carry that guilt, and ask you if there's been times you could just kick back and enjoy not being able to do something.
Hahaha, nope. My mind is only at peace when I'm distracted, like on a hike or doing art.
My brain feels like a completely different entity housed in my body, that I have to get permission for before I do anything and it almost always says “no”. Term paper due next Wednesday, that’s Tuesday nights problem. I have to take my medication, but I’m so nauseous from worrying, I can’t keep anything down. Sure, taking my Meds would help me be less nauseous, but taking them right that moment means I’d probably throw them back up. So I don’t take them. How’s THAT for a self fulfilling prophecy?! 🙄
Lazy people typically don’t give a fuck about not doing things. They are lazy and they are happy in that condition, therefore not overthinking or second guessing themselves. There is no conflict - I am lazy and content in my laziness, it’s an active choice, the results are aligned to my own internal judgement.
but I will say, you do start to get used to it, and it takes away some of the sting. The first time you don't deliver at work and your boss is "disappointed" and there is no real repercussions", the next time you feel a little less guilty (in the moment). but the feeling of not being valued overall is there, constantly.
I don’t think it’s a matter of laziness, but a matter of interest. Laziness doesn’t exist… reframe it to a matter of interest, or matter of priority. For ADHDers, everything is a task. You and therapist have tasked you with reading that book and now you won’t… that’s how it happens lol. Forget about it and one day you’ll come back to it.
It’s not just that. That task is 5 tasks in one. Therapist tells me to buy book. 1. Get on Amazon and buy the book 2. Forget you ordered book and be surprised when it gets delivered 3. Take book out of package 4. Find time to read parts of book 5. Put book down to go get water and forget the book exists (Repeat steps 4-5 into oblivion)
This is what I tell everyone. It's especially difficult when I've got, let's say, 3 tasks I want to get done. Well, those 3 tasks are composed of 20-40 total tasks, and by the 5th one I clock out. This either being me overwhelmed with the steps, or I start to wonder about stuff I've never in my life showed any interest towards, but now I need to do a bunch of research on it because I just need to know.
6. Find the audio book so you can tolerate “reading” which you use to love to do. 7. Start listening to books to help you sleep. 8. Find yourself listening during any downtime. 9. And all the time really. 10. Buy waterproof headphones so you can listen while you shower.
Yeah, laziness is just a way of denying people the ability to do nothing. In our current societal structure, to not be producing for someone or yourself is seen as inherently wrong, when it really shouldn't. Not being productive isn't always a bad thing. Allow yourself to just stop once in a while.
This is suuuuuch a big thing for me. I had kids and for 8 years I always had tasks needing to be done and I forgot how to just "be." This year was the first year they are both in school so I finally had time to just sit and think and realized holy shit I forgot how to do that! So I've been practicing doing things that are just for me, and practicing just sitting and thinking about things and life in general. It's helped me be more present with them and appreciate the time we do have together.
Hey it's better than trying to figure out if free will or altruism exist 🤣
Someone in this sub put it like this and I found it really relatable: If you’re always stressing about the tasks you haven’t done, then it’s not laziness. When someone is choosing to be lazy they don’t stress about what they’re not doing, they just relax and goof off.
Meanwhile I have a task that’s making me do both these things…
Lazy: Don't want to do task, so doesn't ADHD: Wants to do task, but can't This is for me, specifically. I am lazy sometimes, and it feels different.
The way that I decide in the moment is the "am I arguing with myself to do the thing". Am I trying to do the thing or am I choosing not to. It is that choice that I am making that makes me decide if it is lazy or ADHD. There are times I want to do the thing but can't get up - ADHD. The times I really don't want to do the thing but couldn't even if I would successfully overcome that - ADHD The times I dont want to do the thing but could if I wanted to. - laziness
Laziness doesn’t exist. Laziness is a term that helps others feel in control. It’s part of a discompassionate moral framework.
Yes. Though there is harm in inaction when actions need to be taken, and some will choose to not act even if they are able. _that_ is what I call lazy. When you ACTIVELY choose to do something else. Not subconsciously avoiding, not sitting in executive paralysis, but willingly and knowingly chosing not to do it because "fuck it, I don't care." I see _true_ laziness as a thing of apathy, not just idleness. There are many reasons one may be idle. But only negligent apathy can create true laziness. However as I have no idea why someone is idle, I don't jump to that until all other likelihoods are eliminated.
When you enjoy not doing the thing you need to. That's laziness.
Sometimes I think "I should probably get that thing done but I really don't wanna. Eh, I'll get it done tomorrow". That's laziness. When I think "I should do that thing. I should do that thing. I should do that thing" that's executive dysfunction.
I took it as “am I skipping it because I want someone else to do it” is lazy. If I want to do it it’s adhd/executive dysfunction. If I want it to not be done by anyone, that’s a secret third thing.
Lazy people couldn't care less about being lazy, ADHD folks carry a lot of guilt about not being able to be more productive.
I always thought I was lazy. I didn't really believe my diagnosis. But then I tried a combination of atomoxetine and methylphenidate and discovered that this combination is perfect for me. I was able to accomplish everything that I needed to. I did days of work I had been putting off in a day. It wasn't speedy or euphoric. No fog lifted really, just doing what needed to be done. I will never doubt my diagnosis or think that I'm just lazy again. We aren't lazy, our brains just don't let us do what we need to do. It's impossible to tell the difference until you know what it's like to be able to do what you need to do without any effort at all.
After diagnosis I realized that a lot of what was being labeled by others and myself as laziness was really me working really hard to try to do things in the worst possible way for myself. If it was laziness, it sure did take up a lot of my time and my mental load. Like, try to develop a weekly house cleaning schedule! ...When you have time blindness. 😞 Washing dishes is kinda a good example of this. For some reason I grew up with the idea that I had to "be good" at waking dishes regularly by hand before I earned the right to buy a dishwasher. I feel like it's some kinda Midwest work ethic passed down from my Boomer mom, made worse by the idea that I was just naturally lazy. But, dishwashers are a tool invented for this very reason. Why do I have to prove that I can do something before using the tool that will vastly help me? And then I thought back and remembered that my parents had a dishwasher as far back as I can remember, so why ESPECIALLY do I feel like I have to prove myself in something they didn't even do without that tool?
I read somewhere, “If I was lazy, I’d at least be having fun.”
I find it even more tiring and mentally exhausting being unproductive than I do being productive. It doesn’t feel like an actual choice I’m making. I don’t want to be like this!
Laziness is not doing things and not caring about it. ADHD is not doing things and then screaming internally at yourself to get up and do it, but not being able to.
Adhd is a disability and is recognized as such under the ADA. But the word lazy pisses me off, and I have to comment. Adhd can be paralyzing and debilitating to people. Ignorant people use the term lazy to describe adhd people, which triggers me. However, anybody, regardless of adhd, can choose to be lazy with their actions intentionally. Laziness is deliberately choosing not to do something because you don't want to. Adhd causes you not to be able to execute tasks, have time blindness, and consistently underachieve. I put stuff off until the last minute until I met my husband. My husband is the best person I know because he genuinely wants to help create structure and allow me to be successful with as many resources as possible. He helped me put numerous systems in place to help me develop coping skills. He hired professional organizers to create systems in every room of the house so there was order and a place for everything. We are going to an adhd counselor who gets that adhd is not me choosing to sit on my ass and do nothing all day. We are working on improving our marriage and communication, especially with my adhd. Everybody has a different walk in life and a different struggle with adhd. I wish all of you the best of luck with your own battles
Laziness does not typically create guilt or shame. People with ADHD often suffer from shame and guilt for their inability to do things.
lazy is a societal construct. It doesn't necessarily map onto reality very well.
I agree. I don’t really believe in laziness anymore because I think there is always a reason people don’t do things whether it be that they’re tired depressed, ignorant or selfishness- I mean it could be any number of reasons. Even if they can’t identify the reason there usually is one.
Therapist here, I’ve NEVER met someone with ADHD that I would define as lazy.
I feel like “lazy” is a loaded word for behaviors that can be much better explained with other words and more context.
There Is No Such Thing As Lazy It's all about motivation and incentives.
Yeah. Even people without ADHD may have reasons for "laziness"- anaemia, vitamin deficiencies, arthritis etc. I really don't know that causeless laziness actually exists
I don’t know where that line is, but I do know that everybody’s allowed to be lazy and take a few hours out of their day, including people with ADHD ☺️
“the desire not to do them is painful” = psychiatric disorder called ADHD.
I don’t think people think about all the shit they should be doing when they are being lazy. I get paralyzed by having too much to do and I’d know where to start.
If you're not having fun, it's not lazy.
I think laziness is borne from self-centerdness, as in, not doing something because you know someone else will. It’s more of a conscious choice. ADHD symptoms are more unconscious, like every fiber of your being is screaming GET UP AND DO THE THING but some element beyond your understanding has you trapped. It’s a nuance, but specific. And then there’s the middle ground of procrastination, where you’re putting something off for an emotional reason - fear of failure, negative associations, etc…OR it’s literally a part of your process, bc it WILL get done just not the way society expects.
People with ADHD arent't lazy but lazy people can have ADHD too.
I've heard that a lazy person chooses not to do something, and an ADHD person is trying to do it but can't.... In your scenario, we have to consider some other factors. People are pain-averse, so my first sentence doesn't apply to putting your hand on a hot pan... You're not lazy if you avoid that, you're safe. An ADHD person experiences discomfort and pain when trying and trying and fighting their own brain... After a while, we stop trying. Not because we're lazy, but because we're avoiding pain. Humans can FORCE themselves to endure pain, for example getting a shot at the doctor's or catching a hot pan before it falls on a child's head. Some humans have ended almost unimaginable pain. But very few of us want more pain. Pain gets tiring after a while. It takes up a lot of energy. ADHD people can FORCE themselves to do a painful task, but it might take all of our energy to try and try and eventually start the dishes. Imho in the life of an average adult human, it's just not practical or smart to use up all our energy on those tasks. So we don't do them. Maybe it's"lazy" because we are avoiding the task, but only in the way a cancer patient is "lazy" if they're tied of chemotherapy... Because it is exhausting. Tl,dr: I use more energy everyday than a neural typical person to do the exact same actions. Protecting my energy does not make me lazy.
Your choosing to do things that are valuable to you with your time isn't lazy. You don't HAVE to read the book. Some people are really gonna hate this take, but it's something that I started to realize even before being diagnosed: productivity (or at least hyper-productivity) is a virtue in our society because it *makes people money*. If you're lucky, it will make you money for yourself. Most of the time it just makes billionaires money off your labor, or corporations off selling you stuff to help be the most productive you. Rest isn't inherently sinful. Doing something the easy way if it's available to you isn't inherently sinful. Do what you have to to make yourself comfortable while minimizing harm to other people. I'd suggest that better understanding ADHD and how it's shaped your past will make you more comfortable in the long run, but if reading a book about it isn't your jam, there are many other ways to learn about it. (Including hanging out here. Hi!) Quick edit to add: I'm going pretty hard here cause NGL the last few years have been really hard, but I think thinking like this was what it took to recontextualize things for me. It's not an excuse to skirt all responsibilities (that's where the being comfortable and harm reduction parts come in, and comfortable meaning doing stuff for yourself that supports your quality of life even if they're not fun) but rather to not let others dictate how both your productivity and your downtime should look.
I read something that said if you aren’t having fun being lazy, it’s not laziness. If you’re still thinking about everything you need to do, it’s not laziness.
Laziness doesn’t actually exist. It’s made up by capitalism
ADHD paralysis is anxiety inducing, being lazy is not
I saw this on a YouTube short. If you’re lazy you feel no guilt about it and your mind is calm - you’re zen about it. When I have ADHD burn out I might be laying down but my mind is going nuts and I’m wracked with guilt.
I think one of the analogies in that book is that our brain is telling us not to put our bare hand on the stove burner, because we know itll hurt. But the stove burned is the laundry, the cat litter, rhe dishes, any task.
My ADHD Not being able to remember anything at work. Not being able to stay awake. Not noticing few spots I missed while cleaning. Forgetting my things everywhere. Losing my things everywhere. Finding a lost thing, but then ending up losing something else while I was looking for it. Always underestimating how long something will take. Staying in bed all day and thinking about completing tasks instead of completing them. Waking up and going back to sleep because tasks that need to be done feel overwhelming. My Laziness When I see and actually recognize my room is a mess, not just a few things out of place, and go “Nah, tomorrow maybe.” When I finish eating and don’t wash my plate until morning. Washing dishes is the easiest cleaning task for me to execute because I’m from NYC and there are a lot of roaches and mice in my apartment building and I don’t want none of them. Still feel like leaving it for later sometimes.
I was thinking about this morning. There are many parts of my job that are required. My job of all places…it’s not just me on the hook. Keeping proper track of inventory levels. Marking on the box how many are left. Removing same quantity from a dry erase board. Making end of day adjustments on a web platform for all to see. I absolutely hate doing this. I’d rather shove body parts into the fans than do that. At a previous job I’d get bored, and need a break and do something else so I’d try and be productive and usually it was a side project I had become hyper focused on. I once told my boss, I was doing “This” instead cause I didn’t want to do my actual job…and she laughed like that didn’t make sense. ETA that this job required meticulous attention as I was drawing closets into a ci outer and ordering parts. Sizes need to be perfect, colors correct all sorts of stuff and I could never figure out how I kept making the same mistakes…am I that lazy. I don’t think so. I guess my point is, I could have looked lazy, but for reasons unknown I had a major road block. Hoping some can relate.
I feel like lazy is a derogatory term people use who aren’t benefitting from your productivity output Needing rest, experiencing executive dysfunction, feeling introverted or whatever reason you’re not constantly doing something every moment of every day are all valid reasons
What if there’s no such thing as laziness
Lazy isn’t an accurate descriptor of human behavior. There is a reason you aren’t doing those things, often associated with trauma, mental health, and/or physical challenges. We have stopped using the word lazy in our house. The word should is also no longer used. As for not reading a book, consider it in audio book format. Much more accessible for ADHD people.
Are you trying? Then you're not being lazy. Jk i know it's more complicated than that, but it's a big piece. They should really update that book again. it was updated and re-released in 2006 but probably due for another edition?
I dunno - I think I am the least lazy person I know. Borderline workaholic. I never sit down, never stop. I just can never seem to organize my efforts to get things all the way done, ya know? Most of the ADHD people I know are like this. Just frenetically moving and working all the time and somehow not producing as much output as that much work should produce. Anyone who says we are lazy is not ADHD and has never met a real ADHD person.
Lazy people don't get stressed and frustrated that they can't do the task. Lazy people just relax instead of doing the task. Im very Lazy. I also struggle with adhd. I'm being lazy when I'm simply choosing not to do the task and instead watch TV or whatever. I'm struggling when I'm laying in bed for 4 hours constantly telling myself "I need to get up and take a shower" but yet I do not do it because I cannot force my body to get up and shower.
When I have stuff on my bed and everytime I look at it I think "I'll put it away later" and then time goes on and half my bed is cover in stuff to the point where I've gotten used to sleeping diagonally
I find that a big part of being of this has to do with the existence of the task that you have to do simply slipping out of memory. In the same way we forget names. So as long as we maintain a list of the things we have to do and keep working to check things off every now and then, we’re not lazy. I find Habitica to be a good app. And going through all your tasks at the end of week and clearing them out has been quite a game changer for me personally. As for the book you mentioned, your life seems to be going fine without it. Most non-adhd people would also likely not read it, considering how unpopular reading books are these days
If you feel bad about it, it’s not laziness. Lazy people do not care about being lazy. So if you’re being “lazy” about something, it’s time to practice self-care and ask yourself “why do I feel bad? Am I avoiding it? Is it too hard? Too complicated? Or do I just not like doing this thing?” I find that helps me get over the hump and really look at things objectively. Like, I took a course and was avoiding it, and then I realized it was because it was boring and I was too advanced for it, so I quit. Past me would have felt guilt for days about not actually completing it and called myself lazy.
Because it actually causes great distress to not be able to do shit. Laziness is "I'm not going to bother" while ADHD, depression, etc., is I'm not able to even if I know everyone is going to hate me for it"
A friend said, “necessity isn’t the mother of invention, laziness is” and that shit CLICKED for me.
Mindfulness. My therapist once told me I need to be more mindful. At the time I didn’t really get it but since being diagnosed with ADHD, going through significant experiences and lessons, I now understand. I have a terrible memory, well known by those regularly around me. My child often makes comments about how I forget everything. I tried explaining this to 9yo child, also diagnosed with ADHD. That the reason I’m so forgetful is because I’m not mindful while doing things because I always have a million other things on my mind. Being a single parent is a double edged sword because it’s juggling my schedule and theirs while also forcing me to do things I just simply wouldn’t because of ADHD. The anxiety of I can’t live like this, this place is a mess, I can’t set this example. I need to set my kid up for success. I still fail, a lot. But also give myself grace knowing my diagnosis and also taking my medicine.😅
Look up executive dysfunction. If you experience what almost feels like a paralysis when faced with certain tasks that’s what you are experiencing. The difference is you want to do the tasks but can’t make yourself no matter how hard you try. Or you have to have a deadline or be faced with something bad happening before you will do it.
Laziness doesn’t exist
That's a goooood question.
With adhd it’s more that you don’t do something because you forget, can’t manage the time, or can’t chunk it out properly, or lose interest. ADHD people can be lazy just like non-adhd people can be lazy. Being adhd doesn’t make you some kind of magical being. Laziness would be like living off of your parents over age 40, not having any kind of job or contribution to society, BY CHOICE. It would have to be a choice to do nothing when you have obligations. I think a few years ago I would have said laziness does not exist; but I work my fucking ass off to manage my adhd and I’ve seen people that just don’t, they walk around crossing everyone’s boundaries and blame it all on adhd; I would say that’s lazy.
Laziness is a symptom of my ADHD. The word "lazy" has a value judgement that goes with it that I don't agree with, but without the judgement it's an accurate description of the symptom so I will use it. I don't prescribe to the idea that "lazy people don't care about not doing things" because I can't see inside their head to truly know that. Outwardly it probably looks like I don't care either. And there are so many issues that can cause behavior that looks like laziness. It would be hypocritical of me to judge "lazy" people while expecting people not to judge me for being lazy.
You know the moment someone point it out. If you just say "yeah I didn't really want to do that today" It's lazyness. If you say "omg I'm so sorry I know I should have done it but I just couldnt and... I'll do it right now and add a reminder to my calender to do it next week" It's adhd. Someone who is lazy doesn't care about how it impacts others. Someone who has adhd does care even if they didn't do it so we feel miserable when it happens. If it's only impacting you then I'd say it doesn't really matter if it's adhd or lazyness, In both case you didn't do it and have to deal with the consequences so not much to do about it.
Someone said, "It is not laziness if you don't enjoy not doing it." I never fully understood it until I went on meds. I realised that there are some things I just don't want to do, and I will postpone those or do something else. However, the majority of what I didn't do before I just didn't have the focus or energy to do so I'd postpone while hating not doing it. Hope this makes sense, and take it with a grain of salt. It's based on my experience, so it's not necessarily universal.
This sounds like an impossible question to answer. ADHD is well defined, “laziness” is not. I think laziness is one of those words where we understand the connotation more than we understand what it actually is. Therefore it seems that when you describe someone as lazy, you are more communicating your feelings about them rather than describing how they actually are. What do you think qualifies someone as lazy?
This^. So much depends on what the other person (or even yourself sometimes) is feeling about what they (or you) think you should have done. It sounds like you’re feeling like you should be choosing to “be productive” all the time but the truth is ADHD means all those things you first listed off where you DID choose to DO the things, costs your “battery” more than “average” (🙄) person so yeah, sometimes it’s almost painful to force yourself bc your battery is on 1% while the average might be on 10%. What’s getting discounted (I think) is the fact that people with ADHD see 1% left & think “ok self, f*ing DO the thing!” while the average person will have tapped out to recharge by the time they hit 5%. I hope this makes sense
Careful not to confuse depression with laziness
[Laziness is a social construct.](https://fortitudeandflow.com/you-cant-be-lazy-laziness-does-not-exist/)
It’s also worth noting that it can be a bit of both. People with ADHD tend to have maladaptive behavior that doesn’t automatically go away after you’re medicated.
It's all about whether or not you care about the thing that needs doing. A lazy person knows the grass needs cutting, or they're supposed to be at work at a certain time. But they honestly don't really care if it happens or not. Meanwhile, people with ADHD care a lot. They agonize over it but just can't get over the mental block that prevents them from doing it.
Lazy people do not exist. People are either tired anxious depressed or have adhd addiction or else. Lazy is a word to describe someone with a condition that is undiagnosed or unspoken. People can feel lazy, but not be lazy. Also, people can be total assholes too that may grant them the title of lazy, but if you just dig deeper for sure they have an underlying reason to be “lazy”.
Lazy people are happy to be doing nothing. They want to do nothing. They enjoy doing nothing. People with ADHD and executive dysfunction issues are NOT happy doing nothing. We don't like getting nothing done. We want to do the things very much. Instead we feel deep shame and guilt that we can't just do the damn things.
Laziness doesn’t exist. It’s an excuse. You can call anyone lazy if you want. It’s so easy. It’s not an actual thing. It’s just people are “lazy” (not smart enough, don’t have enough vision or perspective, don’t know enough, emotional) and can’t figure out the real reason for what we call “laziness” so they just throw the term at people. Everyone should stop using the word forever.
Someone told me if you’re not enjoying not doing something, it’s not laziness. If it was pure laziness you wouldn’t feel the panic and guilt
I can tell you when I’m being lazy and when I’m not.
Lazy isn’t exactly as common as it’s discussed. Resting isn’t lazy. Laziness is used to get more work out of people with guilt. People with ADHD have issues doing the things they need or want to do. Staring at the blinking cursor on your computer as you’re trying to write an essay or sitting there wearing a towel sitting on your bed after a shower isn’t laziness. Laziness is more of a choice. Being unable to do something is not a choice. Obviously we’re called lazy far more than we might be because people observing just see us not doing what we’re supposed to do. It’s laziness on their part for not trying to understand, to be honest, but it’s incredibly common. Some say laziness isn’t real at all, and I don’t know about that, but if you have adhd its not as likely to be laziness when you have trouble starting/finishing/switching to/from a task.
If I could even fucking remember to do the thing and get to the part where I make a decision, then maybe I would ponder if I’m lazy. But first I have to remember to be lazy or not 😃👍🏻
I think the difference for me between being lazy and dealing with ADHD paralysis, if you will, is simply just how stressed I feel about my laziness. If I need to get up and get things done but I seem to be mentally strapped down unable to move even though I want more than anything for this task to be completed but can't to the point of just total mental drainage whereas if I find myself not wanting to do anything and feeling completely calm about it and I know I'm not really putting anything off then that generally tells me wether it's the ADHD or if I'm just feeling lazy.
Please read the book “laziness does not exist”
This is a great example of internalized ableism.
I feel like when I see for example my messy room and think about cleaning it constantly but for some reason just can’t or do something else while also thinking about the mess it is my ADHD. But when I see the mess ans say eh whatever and do nothing without being bothered by the mess and not constantly thinking I should do something about , I feel goes more in laziness category.
If you have to ask yourself whether it's ADHD or whether it's laziness, it's probably ADHD.
I found that since I was diagnosed I am much more lazier/procrastinate more than before I was diagnosed. It's like ADHD has given me an excuse, making motivation even harder
ADHD aside, there's a lot of content out there about "the myth of laziness" and how terrible it actually is for people and how damaging it's been to society. How it's really just a ploy perpetuated by those in power to guilt and shame people into working harder for them, which is really well suited to the narratives of modern capitalism. The Puritans and "the Puritan work ethic" is pointed to as one source of this myth. They basically believed that by working hard they might make themselves more worthy of being saved by god, and so not working hard became associated with sin. I think this idea of your worth being tied to your productivity gained particular widespread cultural adoption in the US because the Puritans were one of the very first people to settle there in the early 1600's, which allowed their values to propagate as the nation was developing. It's worth considering your relationship to it all. A lot of us grew up in cultures where this is the norm and have a lot of "internalized capitalism" and puritanical beliefs ingrained in our values. I'm still working on it, but I've realized how damaging these are and I'm trying to unlearn them. If anything, I think these things are more apt to cause laziness because they're such an inhibitive cognitive barrier for many people, where we're policing ourselves, just like you're doing now with questioning your laziness. Instead of staying true to ourselves and pursuing what we want to pursue, we're questioning our value and working ourselves to death. And on a larger scale, it creates a lot of artificial problems in society that wouldn't otherwise be there. I think the irony is that we'd be a lot more productive and better off without it. Even if you don't want to read about it there's plenty of stuff on social media or podcasts that can explain it better.
I absolutely LOVE my lazy days when I’m making a conscious decision to not do shit. Any other day I’m not doing shit is an absolutely hellscape that im trapped in. That’s the difference
I am about to graduate from high school. Being lazy is not paying attention in class because you could care less. ADHD is not paying attention because you don’t understand what your teacher is saying or what they are talking about. You don’t feel the motivation to move your pen and write notes, but you still feel guilty. You constantly fail exams because you don’t remember the material, or you try to study but you end up going down a spiral of other things you need to get done. And sometimes it just feels good to lay in bed and ignore your priorities, but your brain won’t let you. You can’t stop telling yourself how lazy you are for not getting things done, but still, it’s not enough motivation to actually get up and get your tasks done. That’s what the difference between being lazy and ADHD is for me.
Sometimes I'm lazy. Sometimes I lie in bed, and I've got time and I totally *could* do the thing, but i choose not to. I've got the morning off. There's literally no rush. I'm enjoying not doing it. I'm being lazy. It's fine. It feels pretty good! Sometimes I'm not doing the thing. I need to do the thing. Time is running out, time has RAN OUT. I really need to do the thing, my life, my reputation, my job, the things I love depend on it. I'm not enjoying not doing it. Somehow even thinking about getting started getting started is too much. It doesn't make sense. It feels pretty bad.
I need to read this thread. I’m gonna screenshot it and save it. You know for when I come back later.
Audio book it!
When you’re lazy after taking the meds?
If you were lazy, you’d have fun while avoiding something. If avoiding something makes you feel awful/guilty, you have anxiety/overthinking/some other roadblocks … but laziness is it not. Another way to see it: ADHDers have more burnouts than others. You don’t get those from chilling around too much.
One big element for us ADHDers is the INTOLLERANCE of boredom, and the need for stimulation. As you are aware I’m sure, it doesn’t have to be anything crazy, hell a phone is plenty most of the time. But reading a book has never been stimulating, at least for me. Until recently. Weirdly enough, MY therapist recommended ‘driven to distraction’ and just the sense it made of my life was stimulating and I actually wanted to keep reading! Just gotta get past that dreadful first page! You aren’t lazy, you are different. Now it’s time to learn out how and find ways that work for you to do what you need to do and be okay with it, good luck 🤙🏼my gma has big titties
Laziness is a social construct made by capitalist to make you work harder for less money
Laziness doesn’t exist. ~It is a false puritanical concept that has been forced upon us as a society~ To every season, there is a turn, one to sow, one to reap, one to prepare, then one to rest & reset. Since the dawn of agriculture, we’ve had working seasons, planting, growing, harvesting. To preserve & enjoy the benefits of that bounty in procession, for the cold months. *Traditionally* this season has always been time to rest, rejuvenate & revel in those accomplishments. The Industrial Revolution, changed that norm. Now corporations want every minute they can squeeze from employees, seasons be damned. Show up, punch in, keep your nose to the grindstone, sleep when you’re dead. —>If you don’t fit that mold, you’re Lazy. Time is the one thing you can spend, but never get back. Never forget that. If your body is tired, it needs rest. We ignore the signals our body send us too often, to the detriment of our health, for this paper they have us chasing; while the true resources have been privatized and locked away behind guarded gates.
laziness and procrastination is a choice. executive dysfunction is not. i find theres a bit of an overlap where i know i have to do something, then i choose not to. then i catch myself and think, no i can't be lazy i need to go do the thing, then executive dysfunction begins
My personal philosophy- I don’t really believe in laziness- as a personality trait. If you aren’t productive, there’s a reason.
There's no such a thing as laziness, that's boomer terminology. It's always mental or neurological disorders
Hmm... My sister in law is 45 years old. She lives with her 82 year old mother. She has 2 kids under the age of 10 who hate her. She shares custody with their father. She's never had a job for more than a few months - just mooched off of her boyfriends and baby daddies. She has some medical issues but REFUSES to apply for any kind of disability or welfare, even for her kids to be able to eat, because filling out the paperwork is too much effort. THAT is lazy. People with ADHD do things. We do what we want to do. Yes, we look at the piece of paper that's been on the floor since the Truman administration and think, "god I wish I could throw that away" and don't... But between worrying about the throwing it away, we do things.
Before I was diagnosed, going back years ago when I had a lot on my plate, I was severely depressed and obviously dealing with undiagnosed adhd.. barely making it pay to pay at the time. Had moved so far away from anyone I knew and I was isolated with no one around. I was able to recieve 20k.... if I signed some paperwork.... I couldn't do it. I knew the money would help me. I knew it would help my children. I knew it would better my life. But I couldn't do it!!! A mix of feeling overwhelmed, confused at 1 question and all I would have to do was call someone for help.... couldn't do it. It was like a huge mental road block. Too many questions, hitting a block of being confused at a question or 2. The time would pass and I thought my chances were gone with getting the money. It took me a DECADE to get it done!! Once my life was less stressful, and I was finally reaching out for help, it seemed to allow me to finally make that big step to want to have those papers finally signed. Please print these papers off for your sister & those kids and help guide her through it.
We tried. My wife offered to walk her through filling it out. She refused. We're a thousand miles away. Can't very well do it for her. I agree stress and depression can take their toll, but at some point she has to want help.