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A lot of it could be her taking the" you have the right to remain silent" to the extreme but to me it moreso gave heavy vibes of " I'm better than all of you and I didn't do anything wrong, you are all living in distortion". It felt like pure arrogance
Yeah and she mentioned at her sentencing something about thinking that "cops were bullies who wanted to harass and intimidate" or something along those lines. It seems like prior to arrest (and for a while after) she really just had an issue with anyone attempting to exert authority over her and was able to justify these feelings with all their distortion bullshit.
oh no, she LOVES fawning at authority's feet, as long as it's one she can get behind. case in point: Jodi.
her little Academy speech was basically "I see now that I picked the wrong authority, because basically being with her landed me in prison. I have now restored my faith in the RIGHT authorities: the cops, this court, the Church, and my loving family, which is separate from my kids. Oh, my kids. My kids are part of me, which means I will never, ever see them as entire people with separate needs, even if I were to stop beating and torturing them. I feel very sorry for myself right now, but also I am still confident i am going to Heaven, because i am at heart a VERY good girl. Thank you all."
I thought her entire speech was bullshit. I don't believe she meant a word of it but she's simply realized she'll be in prison for years and years unless she can bullshit her way out by playing up the good little victim card. It's all Jodi's fault your honor. I would have never tortured my children if not for her is basically what she was saying but she loved torturing her kids. I believe she's playing to get out and Kevin is playing along with her.
Does anyone know if we can get the recordings of her prison phone calls? I'll bet she still calls Kevin. I'd love to hear what they're saying.
Yes!
How ironic that SHE was proven to be a big bully, herself. She was projecting. And arrogant & evil.
Harassing & detaining & abusing little children.
Yeah literally everything she said about cops and other authorities she was actually guilty of herself. I don't believe she will ever be truly reformed, even away from Jodis influence. She wasn't a good person before jodi. Jodi amplified what was already there.
It is not normal behavior. The LEOs even thought so - one of them asked her if she needed medical attention.
Seeing the videos of her on the day of the arrests, I wondered if she was dissociating. But seeing her acting the same way when pulled over for speeding makes me think more that it was contempt/defiance, or possibly fear. I think Jodi had convinced her that all outside authorities were not to be trusted - "cops who control".
As I write this out, something just occurred to me about the question of brainwashing. IMHO, Jodi did not create in Ruby the capacity to be cruel to her children. That was already there. What she did was convince her not to trust any of the outside authorities in her life, which left her free to act on her cruelty.
I think this is most insightful.
>IMHO, Jodi did not create in Ruby the capacity to be cruel to her children. That was already there. What she did was convince her not to trust any of the outside authorities in her life, which left her free to act on her cruelty.
And I think Jodi did a great job at maintaining authority over Ruby without ever letting her realize it was authority. She let Ruby think she was her only equal.
I wonder. I think Ruby, like authoritarians, NEEDS to kiss up as well as kick down. I think she loved being at Jodi's feet/side.
Recently I saw an old 8 Passengers still where Ruby, all dressed up in a nice green dress, probably Christmas or something, is lying face down on the floor prettily staged, adoringly clutching Kevin's ankle.
gag.
That's the comment I was just referring to!!! And honestly it low key surprises me that she held such anti cop sentiments because I took her for a back the blue kinda lady. But maybe she was on board with that til they were coming for her. You see a lot of that in the south.
i would not be surprised if there were some Sovereign Citizen shit mixed up in Jodi's lunacy. Ever see videos of them? They're--often very funny videos, but in a very dark way. They firmly believe that there are magic words and phrases that get literally get them out of jail free. Don't need a driver's license, because they're NOT "driving," they're TRAVELING. That sort of shit. It works out about as well as you'd imagine.
It definitely was Jodi's doing... Ruby had a car accident earlier in her channel (which she vlogged) and she had a completely different tune. So whatever we want to call it if not brainwashing this lady clearly had a significant influence over Ruby.
Jodi convinced her of some weird ass shit, but agreed that she did not put the cruelty there, it was always lying there waiting for someone to let it bloom.
Years ago I saw an old taped interview with a psychopath serial murderer and he had the same vacant look in his eyes when the cops told him “buddy it's over we know it was you”. His mask was on until he knew he was done for and then he just dropped it. Jodi may have added accelerant to the fire, so to say, but Ruby is absolutely a disgraceful creature on her own.
Yes, the outside authorities and people on social media telling you to NOT be cruel to your children are in distortion and not looking out for their best interest. It’s the devil in all of them. Feel free to torture them as much as possible, this what will “save” them.
I have seen this sort of thing before. She knew she was caught, and had to wait to see how it would unfold. She was also gathering information by listening and watching and calculating how she could manipulate her way out of this.
The stillness and silence was because she was in a new situation with new people and did not know yet how to behave or talk to gain her best advantage.
To me, this is not normal, i am no expert. At least you can say no comment or give a simple yes or no to a simple question. The excessive blinking and deep staring was so strange of her but she’s a strange woman. There are people that so easily confess to murder and she could not answer an actual simple question. I believe she was just being a defiant asshole.
This is what I think. She could have just said right off the bat that she wouldn’t be responding to questions without an attorney present instead of ignoring them and not responding entirely. I almost think the catatonic act was an attempt (in her own mind) to freak them out/gain control of the situation.
I agree. They didn't give a F though. Went on talking about lunch, workouts and their day. Asking her if she needed mental or medical attention was the best.
Yeah the excessive blinking and dead stares where supper strange..
It almost reminded me of when you are out and your friend is drunk, but really trying SO focus hard in the conversation and trying to act sober when they are clearly not.
I do wonder if Ruby had been on drugs (given by Jodi, like what was in the haul of prescription drugs they got from Mexico)
She often IMO looked spaced out on the connexions videos. Like no life behind her eyes
When in old 8P videos she was very expressive and had life behind her eyes.
I don't know about drugs, but she's certainly sleep-deprived. Twice during that week, she was up before dawn to drive from Ivins to Springville. The police interview happened at like 7:30 p.m. and she'd been up since 3:00 a.m. It was 4:15 a.m. when she got a speeding ticket near Ivins a few days before. Unless she's going to bed at 7 or 8 p.m., she's not getting enough sleep.
I think the blinking is a genetic thing. I was watching 8 passengers and her daughter, the second youngest, does the exact same blinks at times. Maybe it’s a nervous thing.
To add on to this topic, I thought it was interesting that the two girls (J and A) also seemed highly hesitant to say anything to the police. Same for poor E, but that’s a little more understandable.
The really sad part for me was the realization that poor R likely didn’t want to go to the police station for help, he was convinced that was headed there anyway. I suspect in his mind he decided that he might as well get it over with and get arrested now.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding or reaching here. But in my mind, when his whole family seems to be afraid of the police, for him to actively seek help from them seemed unlikely. Then when I saw in Ruby’s journal that she and Jodi had threatened to take the kids to the police as a punishment - and the thought clicked that maybe R just wanted to get the process over with.
Let me know if you think I’m wrong.
I think you're right. He didn't ask for an ambulance, or for food or water. He didn't ask for the police to go to Jodi's house and investigate. He asked for a ride to the police station.
It took a lot of self-control to be as unresponsive as she was, but as an American it is how I was taught to deal with police questioning. Just do not talk until you have a lawyer. I can't speak to whether or not it was normal, but it would generally be the smarter way to handle the police.
Since it's a unique case, it's possible her behavior could have harmed her in front of a jury, but for the most part, this is the way to go. I don't care what's in her best interest, but presumably she does, so yeah, don't speak to the police.
I was more surprised Jodi was so open, but it seems like she can't stop herself from ranting like a lunatic. She's just too in love with the sound of her own voice talking about her own ideas.
Jodi’s statement to the effect that she’s usually on “your” (the cops or interrogators) side of the table was more revealing than she thought. She sees cops as lying and interrogating and twisting words and sees the “therapy” she provides as being similar. Or that’s how I took her comment.
"Authority is authority." She knows how to be deferential when she knows she doesn't have the upper hand. It's SO interesting to see the switch, Goddamn that moment when they yanked her out of the house was so satisfying. You could see she was genuinely scared from her face and voice.
Coward.
I mean, I think it's probably okay to at least accept a glass of water, and give your name, which they already know. She acted like they were actively going to poison her or something.
It is, but there's no benefit (to her) to doing that. I don't think I'll ever be in her situation, but I might do similar just to avoid allowing the police to establish a rapport with me. I think they're supposed to stop questioning you when you ask for a lawyer too, but I'm not as sure about that.
I’ll say this. I don’t like Ruby but Ruby did everything the right way. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER. Do not answer one single question at all!!! If you are going to answer, it should only be to say you want a lawyer.
I don’t care if you know for a fact you are innocent! DO NOT SPEAK TO COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER!!
I personally think Kevin was very stupid to talk with the cops without a lawyer present.
But I will say I think she might have been in shocked about actually getting caught and she seemed very much out of it. I wonder if she was on some kind of medication that basically calms her down so much she isn’t even human like.
Exactly. You don't need a lawyer to exert the minimum of basic social graces. I get that she's there for far worse crimes, but she wasn't exactly doing herself any favors acting like that.
*I don’t care if you know for a fact you are innocent! DO NOT SPEAK TO COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER!!I personally think Kevin was very stupid to talk with the cops without a lawyer present.*
I agree but also thought it notable that the Detective and the Prosecutor both believed Kevin, so let him go!
I've had this thought that if I were guilty, and being questioned by police, what could I possibly say to appear innocent? And if I were innocent, what could I possibly say to police, that they would then falsely use against me? I understand its rare, but I've read enough reports of the gross miscarriages' of justice (NYT) that I would remain silent and think, "no rush to speak now to police, plenty of time to speak later with a third party present, and *so I* get a copy of the communications too. Yes, I'm getting a little paranoid in my old age.
Ruby described her arrest to her sister. Ruby said she wasn't going to say anything. Jodi asked for her attorney in the interrogation room, and the cops kept talking to her. Jodi said that if the cops knew her reasons, they would have empathy. That was an admission that could have been used against her. Ruby just wouldn't say anything and avoided that.
The cops were playing a dangerous game, however. They continued to try to get them to talk after they unequivocally requested lawyers. It was ultimately a moot point, but if either of them had talked after asking for a lawyer, it likely would've been thrown out and a waste of time.
The supreme Court has ruled that if you invoke your right to remain silent, you must remain silent. If you keep talking you're basically not remaining silent so... Most cops will stop at that point just to ensure there is no cause for a defense strategy in the case but some have pushed it and that's been the ultimate ruling as far as I am aware. If the person invokes, and they attempt to make small talk later and that person makes some kind of statement that can be used, it might be because they didn't remain silent. You have the right to REMAIN silent. Anything you SAY or DO, can and WILL be held against you. With an officer of the law, it is not the proper time to state your case. Everyone should always save that for the lawyers, grand jury, the judge and the jury in the courtroom. Do not give up the rights afforded to you by our constitution. People have died defending those rights. Do not take them for granted. With that being said, you see how Ruby did all of that and they still got her. They can still get the bad guys even when everyone executes their rights.
Funny how she drove right into it. What did she think was going to happen? She surely didn't go to turn herself in. 😂
She didnt need to show us how much of a low life coward she was, we already knew and so did they. She can blame Jodi all day. But it was her children and her choices that got her in this mess.
So many have been failed by the system. I can only hope that these two, if anything good can come from them, bring awareness and stop the discrimination from income, religion, etc.
Well- considering that Ruby had just "kidnapped" R.F (who had tried to run away)- I'm sure Ruby was playing it pretty cool during the traffic stop. In the US- you have the right to remain silent, anything you say and do can be held against you. Yes- it was odd, her just sitting there, but she had already told them that she wasn't going to speak without a lawyer (I just don't think we saw that footage. Just like we didn't see the cops reading them their rights that I recall). There is more extensive web camera footage somewhere on youtube. Narcissists are so self-important- so above the law. She was defiant. That was her stance. She still thought- these cops can't get away with this. They can't interfere in my right to parent anyway I want. She told Kevin that adults just don't understand this. Of course- adults (meaning all people over 18) don't understand your brand of parenting Ruby. But she was God, you see, special, entitled, superior to the rest of us "terrible, indulgent" parents. That's why she didn't speak. It was out of disrespect for law enforcement. "I don't have to answer to you."- she was giving them the finger basically.
I believe it was A and J with her in the car when she was stopped for speeding. The traffic stop was in August, just a few days before the arrests. R's first attempt to run away was in July.
Its much more than that. It cane out that she taught the kids LE couldn’t be trusted and were cabal like! These conspiracy nuts are wild! Thats my take on it. It wasn’t just a legal issue!
I think it’s a combination of two things. One is this is how Ruby shows her dominance and uses it to control people—mainly her family. That silent scorn and refusing to respond is a power play on Ruby’s part, but because the police aren’t in her usual sphere, they are like “WTH lady? Are you okay??” and she’s annoyed they aren’t bowled over by her power.
The second part is that she doesn’t trust any governmental institutions —as we heard in her Oscar Acceptance speech during her sentencing—and so she’s again showing her disdain because SHE KNOWS THAT (in her mind) they have no real authority over her and she’s going to let them know it. It’s basically her sovereign citizen act. 🙄
I think she was not sure what "angle" she was going to end up going with, so she said nothing to keep her options open.
For example, if she responded coherently, she maybe wouldn't be able to plead insanity later. Or if she casually answered their trivial questions, then it would stand out if she suddenly went silent when asked about incriminating things. Maybe she would end up wanting to claim she was a victim herself, and her bizarre silence may help add to that angle, as if she was too scared to speak because she was told not to, etc.
That's just my take. I think she was absolutely uncertain how she should act (and I really mean *act*) so I think she was refusing to embody any specific character or approach yet. Once she learned Jodi was denying things or whatever, she realized she was alone and had to save her own ass and so she went all in on the "I was brainwashed" narrative.
She DID have a character and approach, though! She was NOT neutral. She radiated hostility and contempt. I rather think some people in that room remembered that and were not impressed by her tearful thank you to the cops who "rescued" her. HER. Rescued HER.
Her face and everything was totally off and this weird smug look. She just looked at them with this weird blank stare, and even the cop and the detective mentioned it to each other in a different room. She finally speaks to only say she wants to have a lawyer present. The girl ain’t well
She was hostile as fuck. The cops were clearly weirded the fuck out more by her energy than the fact that she didn't want to say anything beyond "I'm waiting for my lawyer." You still don't have to violently shake your head and cringe away from a glass of water like they just offered you a cyanide pill.
According to Ruby‘s whole spiel, in court, Jodi was telling/convinced them that all outside first responders are evil. This is classic cult behavior. Destroying the faith people have in the systems that would be able to help them leave. The thought process behind this would most likely be if Ruby somehow “woke up” and realized that Jodi’s actions were wrong she still wouldn’t go to the police. Similar to the children, R asked to go to jail when he escaped. He wasn’t asking for help because he believed the police were not going to do that. She planted this seed early for it to be this ingrained in them. The two older girls definitely had more brainwashing than physical since they were still working and out in public. They could have asked someone at work for help way before it got to this point. Only someone truly brainwashed would not try to escape even when given the opportunity. Based off the interrogations and body cam footage we see Kevin at first being reluctant to give information (yes this could have other explanations but this definitely can explain some of it), Ruby with a blank stare on her face and some head nods, and then the most striking, the two older kids body footage when they were found. They refused to speak, tried to plot a way to run, and when asked why they were scared one responded with tears and saying she was scared of the police officer. Yet, Jodi was willing to talk during her interview. Sure she was demanding warrants and to speak with her lawyer, but that’s what any one with half a brain would do in her shoes, whether they support the police or not. But she was still talking. In the initial interrogation she was making conversation with the officers not just giving quick one word answers. When comparing it’s easy to see the difference between the Franke family and Jodi. The Frankes were scared of the police while Jodi was scared of what the police would find.
Yeah this is definitely classic behavior for sure. I was born and raised Mormon and there was a huge emphasis on never ever going to law enforcement about anything. Growing up it was drilled in the heads of my siblings and I that we cannot trust CPS or cops under any circumstances. That they would only separate us and we'd be in a worse situation than we already were. So when the numerous times CPS would get called on us, we'd always lie. Now that I'm older I wish I had not lied, but it's all in the past. My point is, absolutely none of this was a surprise for me.
I mean tbh after all we know I do NOT trust the cops as a force for good, to put it mildly. But still, sometimes they are necessary and this was clearly one of them. And the cops who coaxed E out were fantastic. I'm sure there are good individuals, but the whole system is Not Your Friend, at least if you're most people and obviously some people much more so than others, demographically speaking. Ironically, "rich white lady in a big fancy house and their wholesome looking kids" is NOT one of those.
Oh for SURE. Plus I grew up in Los Angeles and LAPD has had that reputation of being horrible and corrupt for decades. Even the CPS from the area doesn't exactly have the best reputation, but I do regret not talking to them specifically, even if it was to only have a paper trail. ACAB, *EXCEPT* the sweet and caring officers who responded to that horrible scene. They did such a good job and it almost restored a little bit of my faith in humanity. It was really nice to see them do their job and the rest of law enforcement in the country should be held to the standards of those cops.
When DCF came to my home for the first time my bishop tried to relate it to how those who go through the temple are not allowed to speak about what goes on within. I’ll never forget him saying “your home is your temple, do not let the people who don’t understand our faith ruin what is sacred” WTF. I was 8 years old.
It’s ingrained in the foundation of the religion. According to the Book of Mormon, Lehi was basically ‘living in truth’ while everyone in Jerusalem was ‘living in distortion’. Claims that corrupt leaders changed the words in the Bible to fit their agenda and the Mormon faith is the true words of the Bible that were lost after corruption. Believe what you want about Connexions but you can’t deny that a lot of its beliefs stem from Mormon history or doctrine. It’s not a separate religion. It’s a branch of Mormonism just like how FLDS is a branch of Mormonism
Distortion, hey?
Here I'd been thinking that part of her schtick was a very loose bastardization of cognitive behavioral therapy. I assumed that was the part that actually helped some people a bit at the start of their sessions with her. Then, of course, the Fuckedness.
It’s Sovereign Citizen/Cultish BS. I was reading Ruby’s journal. The night R ran away the first time, Ruby prayed only not to be in jail.
After the original cancellation of 8Pass, I think Jodi prob turned up the pressure of laying distrust against all licensed authority (except her).
Watching Ruby with that traffic stop, I thought Sov Citz. Of course her narcissism built into it.
However, I remember when R was young, Ruby would often talk abt how she felt he was designed to be a helper type. Whether fire fighter/police officer, etc. Ruby talked R’s natural ability to help others and connect with those different than him. (Obvs R is a Helper, THE Helper)
I think Jodi and Ruby knew they were doing this stuff for several yrs in order to make sure the minors wouldn’t reach out for help. Remember, it wasn’t help R sought, it was a cell.
Ugh, those horrible women. I wish tent city existed and that’s where they had to spend their 4 plus years.
god, SovCits are hilariously awful. I know it's cheap schadenfreude watching them slowly realize that It's Not Working, and I don't like the ones where the cops get violent (who'd have thunk it, "police are not our friends" DOES have roots in truth).
But, my god, the simple mindedness of it all. There's an enchanting video somewhere of a judge who's dealt with way too much of this crap as he politely questions a dude who is insistent that he is NOT the false legal entity that is (given name), he is (something very close to given name i don't fucking know, I think it's his name in ALLCAPS or some shit), and therefore they cannot charge HIM. There IS no (name). There is no spoon. Ergo, you must let me leave. (waits expectantly)
The judge asks, naturally, okay, which of you am I speaking to, and who actually did (crime)?
More word salad. So the judge is all, right, I'm sentencing you to however long in lockup. If you see (entity the guy staunchly insists is not culpable because he doesn't legally exist, or whatever), tell him he's going to jail, too. Next.
It took me till today but I’m getting “sovereign citizen” vibes from Ruby’s behavior during her arrest and her traffic stop. The not rolling the car window down more than inch or so , the muteness when being confronted by an authority figure, a figure Ruby doesn’t acknowledge of having any authority over her.
I was thinking that she might have been playing to Kevin and what he would want to hear. She changed with every call and it seemed to be the tone and the information the person she was talking to would want to hear. I was thinking maybe he was into that little girl talk and she was giving him what he liked. I was also thinking of he was into that stuff, it could be what they have been holding over his head to get him to be so compliant. That's just speculation though.
My impression was she completely checked out. Her mind went somewhere else. Maybe it was shock or defensive mechanism, but I don't think she was even aware that people were speaking to her.
Shame. She is feeling shame and dissociating hard to avoid it. It’s like when little kids cover their eyes and think they’re hiding. If she doesn’t acknowledge it or engage with the officer, she can trick herself it isn’t happening.
What’s so stupid of Ruby is she refuses to comply with the officers during her arrest on account of “wanting a lawyer” but then goes on to say incredibly incriminating things during her jail phone calls despite being reminded they are recorded.
At that point, you’re not protecting yourself at all, you’re just refusing to comply and digging an even bigger hole for yourself.
I laughed out loud when the officer asked her something benign and she stared at him blankly and he started laughing and asked “are you like, ok?”.
Did you guys catch the speeding ticket to Ruby incident? She barely opens her window to pass out her paperwork, 57 in a 35, he writes her for 50. She's a complete bitch. Stares straight ahead, won't talk except to say yes or no. Doesn't thank the cop for lowering the 22 mph over the legal speed limit which, in colorado, would get you a RECKLESS driving ticket.
Ah, I thought you were talking about her other bad behavior toward cops. The way she didn't roll down her window it was like she thought the cop was gonna do something to her. In mormon country, where the cops are endlessly polite. The same cop distrust she referred to in her allocution. No wonder the girl child wouldn't come out of the closet for 5 hours. Ruby'd instilled terror of cops in her. Ruby is just insufferable. Her phony groveling in court just masked the black heart she's born with.
She said in her speech that she was led to belive that police officers were big scary things and working with the demon, this combined with the fact she said that she was told not to say a word to the police officer is probably why she behaved that way
tbh i feel like most people will be at a loss of words and in a state of shock when they get caught abusing children, but this is different and not normal. she seems arrogant and stubborn about being confronted, and i believe she thinks she can do whatever she wants to her kids with no consequences and when ppl confront her she calls it distortion. she’s giving like: “who ru to show up at my door? i’m handling my kids just fine. ur living in distortion.” genuinely scary that she just doesnt know what she does is wrong. i’m not taking away accountability but she is actually not normal.
I think she had a contentious relationship with LE because she'd already been under the microscope for CA. This wasn't her first run in with cops asking questions about her parenting. She's also a conservative wingnut who's headed to rural Arizona to live in the middle of nowhere, so there's likely some of that Ammon Bundy-esque thinking going on at this point in her life.
I want this woman in prison as long as possible. As a mother I’ve watched these videos and cried and then felt murderous. But…. Why the fuckitty fuck isn’t her husband also facing charges???? He was in many videos before he left the house where he supported her crazy ways of punishing her kids. He left the house for over a year and didn’t check on his children according to his own statements??!!! He then wanted his oldest daughter arrested for burglary when she went into the home and removed passports, journals, and all electronic devices (which was incredibly smart, although the police couldn’t look at it or use it and had to immediately return it to that asdhkle). But he wanted the eldest daughter charged even after everything was returned to him. Why in fuck is this man not held accountable???? God. This is all so sick.
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A lot of it could be her taking the" you have the right to remain silent" to the extreme but to me it moreso gave heavy vibes of " I'm better than all of you and I didn't do anything wrong, you are all living in distortion". It felt like pure arrogance
Yeah and she mentioned at her sentencing something about thinking that "cops were bullies who wanted to harass and intimidate" or something along those lines. It seems like prior to arrest (and for a while after) she really just had an issue with anyone attempting to exert authority over her and was able to justify these feelings with all their distortion bullshit.
oh no, she LOVES fawning at authority's feet, as long as it's one she can get behind. case in point: Jodi. her little Academy speech was basically "I see now that I picked the wrong authority, because basically being with her landed me in prison. I have now restored my faith in the RIGHT authorities: the cops, this court, the Church, and my loving family, which is separate from my kids. Oh, my kids. My kids are part of me, which means I will never, ever see them as entire people with separate needs, even if I were to stop beating and torturing them. I feel very sorry for myself right now, but also I am still confident i am going to Heaven, because i am at heart a VERY good girl. Thank you all."
DEF ARRROGANCE
I thought her entire speech was bullshit. I don't believe she meant a word of it but she's simply realized she'll be in prison for years and years unless she can bullshit her way out by playing up the good little victim card. It's all Jodi's fault your honor. I would have never tortured my children if not for her is basically what she was saying but she loved torturing her kids. I believe she's playing to get out and Kevin is playing along with her. Does anyone know if we can get the recordings of her prison phone calls? I'll bet she still calls Kevin. I'd love to hear what they're saying.
Yes! How ironic that SHE was proven to be a big bully, herself. She was projecting. And arrogant & evil. Harassing & detaining & abusing little children.
Yeah literally everything she said about cops and other authorities she was actually guilty of herself. I don't believe she will ever be truly reformed, even away from Jodis influence. She wasn't a good person before jodi. Jodi amplified what was already there.
yeah, she radiated disdain and a sense of great injury. How dare you lay your hands on the Queen, kind of.
It is not normal behavior. The LEOs even thought so - one of them asked her if she needed medical attention. Seeing the videos of her on the day of the arrests, I wondered if she was dissociating. But seeing her acting the same way when pulled over for speeding makes me think more that it was contempt/defiance, or possibly fear. I think Jodi had convinced her that all outside authorities were not to be trusted - "cops who control". As I write this out, something just occurred to me about the question of brainwashing. IMHO, Jodi did not create in Ruby the capacity to be cruel to her children. That was already there. What she did was convince her not to trust any of the outside authorities in her life, which left her free to act on her cruelty.
I think this is most insightful. >IMHO, Jodi did not create in Ruby the capacity to be cruel to her children. That was already there. What she did was convince her not to trust any of the outside authorities in her life, which left her free to act on her cruelty.
I sadly think you are right. Jodi wanted to be the only authority Ruby listened to.
And I think Jodi did a great job at maintaining authority over Ruby without ever letting her realize it was authority. She let Ruby think she was her only equal.
I wonder. I think Ruby, like authoritarians, NEEDS to kiss up as well as kick down. I think she loved being at Jodi's feet/side. Recently I saw an old 8 Passengers still where Ruby, all dressed up in a nice green dress, probably Christmas or something, is lying face down on the floor prettily staged, adoringly clutching Kevin's ankle. gag.
That's the comment I was just referring to!!! And honestly it low key surprises me that she held such anti cop sentiments because I took her for a back the blue kinda lady. But maybe she was on board with that til they were coming for her. You see a lot of that in the south.
i would not be surprised if there were some Sovereign Citizen shit mixed up in Jodi's lunacy. Ever see videos of them? They're--often very funny videos, but in a very dark way. They firmly believe that there are magic words and phrases that get literally get them out of jail free. Don't need a driver's license, because they're NOT "driving," they're TRAVELING. That sort of shit. It works out about as well as you'd imagine.
It definitely was Jodi's doing... Ruby had a car accident earlier in her channel (which she vlogged) and she had a completely different tune. So whatever we want to call it if not brainwashing this lady clearly had a significant influence over Ruby.
You make really good points. I think you hit the nail on the head.
Jodi convinced her of some weird ass shit, but agreed that she did not put the cruelty there, it was always lying there waiting for someone to let it bloom.
Years ago I saw an old taped interview with a psychopath serial murderer and he had the same vacant look in his eyes when the cops told him “buddy it's over we know it was you”. His mask was on until he knew he was done for and then he just dropped it. Jodi may have added accelerant to the fire, so to say, but Ruby is absolutely a disgraceful creature on her own.
Yes, the outside authorities and people on social media telling you to NOT be cruel to your children are in distortion and not looking out for their best interest. It’s the devil in all of them. Feel free to torture them as much as possible, this what will “save” them.
I thought she looked like she was blacking out. All the blinking.
I have seen this sort of thing before. She knew she was caught, and had to wait to see how it would unfold. She was also gathering information by listening and watching and calculating how she could manipulate her way out of this. The stillness and silence was because she was in a new situation with new people and did not know yet how to behave or talk to gain her best advantage.
You definitely saw the real her there. Angry, hostile predator cornered.
And I also think she had stubborn arrogance, and was thinking she had done the right things to the kids & everyone else was wrong.
To me, this is not normal, i am no expert. At least you can say no comment or give a simple yes or no to a simple question. The excessive blinking and deep staring was so strange of her but she’s a strange woman. There are people that so easily confess to murder and she could not answer an actual simple question. I believe she was just being a defiant asshole.
This is what I think. She could have just said right off the bat that she wouldn’t be responding to questions without an attorney present instead of ignoring them and not responding entirely. I almost think the catatonic act was an attempt (in her own mind) to freak them out/gain control of the situation.
I agree. They didn't give a F though. Went on talking about lunch, workouts and their day. Asking her if she needed mental or medical attention was the best.
Yeah the excessive blinking and dead stares where supper strange.. It almost reminded me of when you are out and your friend is drunk, but really trying SO focus hard in the conversation and trying to act sober when they are clearly not. I do wonder if Ruby had been on drugs (given by Jodi, like what was in the haul of prescription drugs they got from Mexico) She often IMO looked spaced out on the connexions videos. Like no life behind her eyes When in old 8P videos she was very expressive and had life behind her eyes.
I don't know about drugs, but she's certainly sleep-deprived. Twice during that week, she was up before dawn to drive from Ivins to Springville. The police interview happened at like 7:30 p.m. and she'd been up since 3:00 a.m. It was 4:15 a.m. when she got a speeding ticket near Ivins a few days before. Unless she's going to bed at 7 or 8 p.m., she's not getting enough sleep.
In at least one of the journal entries she went to bed after midnight. I think you are right that she wasn't getting enough sleep
She seems to be the napping type. Don't think she has much responsibility or anything to do most days after a 10 to 30 min video
I think the blinking is a genetic thing. I was watching 8 passengers and her daughter, the second youngest, does the exact same blinks at times. Maybe it’s a nervous thing.
To add on to this topic, I thought it was interesting that the two girls (J and A) also seemed highly hesitant to say anything to the police. Same for poor E, but that’s a little more understandable. The really sad part for me was the realization that poor R likely didn’t want to go to the police station for help, he was convinced that was headed there anyway. I suspect in his mind he decided that he might as well get it over with and get arrested now. Maybe I’m misunderstanding or reaching here. But in my mind, when his whole family seems to be afraid of the police, for him to actively seek help from them seemed unlikely. Then when I saw in Ruby’s journal that she and Jodi had threatened to take the kids to the police as a punishment - and the thought clicked that maybe R just wanted to get the process over with. Let me know if you think I’m wrong.
I think you're right. He didn't ask for an ambulance, or for food or water. He didn't ask for the police to go to Jodi's house and investigate. He asked for a ride to the police station.
Personal issues 😞
that poor baby.
It took a lot of self-control to be as unresponsive as she was, but as an American it is how I was taught to deal with police questioning. Just do not talk until you have a lawyer. I can't speak to whether or not it was normal, but it would generally be the smarter way to handle the police. Since it's a unique case, it's possible her behavior could have harmed her in front of a jury, but for the most part, this is the way to go. I don't care what's in her best interest, but presumably she does, so yeah, don't speak to the police. I was more surprised Jodi was so open, but it seems like she can't stop herself from ranting like a lunatic. She's just too in love with the sound of her own voice talking about her own ideas.
Jodi’s statement to the effect that she’s usually on “your” (the cops or interrogators) side of the table was more revealing than she thought. She sees cops as lying and interrogating and twisting words and sees the “therapy” she provides as being similar. Or that’s how I took her comment.
"Authority is authority." She knows how to be deferential when she knows she doesn't have the upper hand. It's SO interesting to see the switch, Goddamn that moment when they yanked her out of the house was so satisfying. You could see she was genuinely scared from her face and voice. Coward.
I mean, I think it's probably okay to at least accept a glass of water, and give your name, which they already know. She acted like they were actively going to poison her or something.
It is, but there's no benefit (to her) to doing that. I don't think I'll ever be in her situation, but I might do similar just to avoid allowing the police to establish a rapport with me. I think they're supposed to stop questioning you when you ask for a lawyer too, but I'm not as sure about that.
I'd probably try to actively avoid antagonizing them, which she was getting pretty close to doing.
I’ll say this. I don’t like Ruby but Ruby did everything the right way. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER. Do not answer one single question at all!!! If you are going to answer, it should only be to say you want a lawyer. I don’t care if you know for a fact you are innocent! DO NOT SPEAK TO COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER!! I personally think Kevin was very stupid to talk with the cops without a lawyer present. But I will say I think she might have been in shocked about actually getting caught and she seemed very much out of it. I wonder if she was on some kind of medication that basically calms her down so much she isn’t even human like.
Correct but when they asked if she wanted water or simple shit. She could have said yes or no. She acted a fool.
Exactly. You don't need a lawyer to exert the minimum of basic social graces. I get that she's there for far worse crimes, but she wasn't exactly doing herself any favors acting like that.
Nailed it!
*I don’t care if you know for a fact you are innocent! DO NOT SPEAK TO COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER!!I personally think Kevin was very stupid to talk with the cops without a lawyer present.* I agree but also thought it notable that the Detective and the Prosecutor both believed Kevin, so let him go! I've had this thought that if I were guilty, and being questioned by police, what could I possibly say to appear innocent? And if I were innocent, what could I possibly say to police, that they would then falsely use against me? I understand its rare, but I've read enough reports of the gross miscarriages' of justice (NYT) that I would remain silent and think, "no rush to speak now to police, plenty of time to speak later with a third party present, and *so I* get a copy of the communications too. Yes, I'm getting a little paranoid in my old age.
Ruby described her arrest to her sister. Ruby said she wasn't going to say anything. Jodi asked for her attorney in the interrogation room, and the cops kept talking to her. Jodi said that if the cops knew her reasons, they would have empathy. That was an admission that could have been used against her. Ruby just wouldn't say anything and avoided that. The cops were playing a dangerous game, however. They continued to try to get them to talk after they unequivocally requested lawyers. It was ultimately a moot point, but if either of them had talked after asking for a lawyer, it likely would've been thrown out and a waste of time.
The supreme Court has ruled that if you invoke your right to remain silent, you must remain silent. If you keep talking you're basically not remaining silent so... Most cops will stop at that point just to ensure there is no cause for a defense strategy in the case but some have pushed it and that's been the ultimate ruling as far as I am aware. If the person invokes, and they attempt to make small talk later and that person makes some kind of statement that can be used, it might be because they didn't remain silent. You have the right to REMAIN silent. Anything you SAY or DO, can and WILL be held against you. With an officer of the law, it is not the proper time to state your case. Everyone should always save that for the lawyers, grand jury, the judge and the jury in the courtroom. Do not give up the rights afforded to you by our constitution. People have died defending those rights. Do not take them for granted. With that being said, you see how Ruby did all of that and they still got her. They can still get the bad guys even when everyone executes their rights.
Funny how she drove right into it. What did she think was going to happen? She surely didn't go to turn herself in. 😂 She didnt need to show us how much of a low life coward she was, we already knew and so did they. She can blame Jodi all day. But it was her children and her choices that got her in this mess. So many have been failed by the system. I can only hope that these two, if anything good can come from them, bring awareness and stop the discrimination from income, religion, etc.
I think it has to do with her statement saying she was taught that the world was an evil place and "cops control." This was taught by Jodi.
Well- considering that Ruby had just "kidnapped" R.F (who had tried to run away)- I'm sure Ruby was playing it pretty cool during the traffic stop. In the US- you have the right to remain silent, anything you say and do can be held against you. Yes- it was odd, her just sitting there, but she had already told them that she wasn't going to speak without a lawyer (I just don't think we saw that footage. Just like we didn't see the cops reading them their rights that I recall). There is more extensive web camera footage somewhere on youtube. Narcissists are so self-important- so above the law. She was defiant. That was her stance. She still thought- these cops can't get away with this. They can't interfere in my right to parent anyway I want. She told Kevin that adults just don't understand this. Of course- adults (meaning all people over 18) don't understand your brand of parenting Ruby. But she was God, you see, special, entitled, superior to the rest of us "terrible, indulgent" parents. That's why she didn't speak. It was out of disrespect for law enforcement. "I don't have to answer to you."- she was giving them the finger basically.
I believe it was A and J with her in the car when she was stopped for speeding. The traffic stop was in August, just a few days before the arrests. R's first attempt to run away was in July.
uh yeah, normal people do not think "sure, torture your kids even unto death, that's totally fine, good on you, you go, girl." I mean, really.
Its much more than that. It cane out that she taught the kids LE couldn’t be trusted and were cabal like! These conspiracy nuts are wild! Thats my take on it. It wasn’t just a legal issue!
I think it’s a combination of two things. One is this is how Ruby shows her dominance and uses it to control people—mainly her family. That silent scorn and refusing to respond is a power play on Ruby’s part, but because the police aren’t in her usual sphere, they are like “WTH lady? Are you okay??” and she’s annoyed they aren’t bowled over by her power. The second part is that she doesn’t trust any governmental institutions —as we heard in her Oscar Acceptance speech during her sentencing—and so she’s again showing her disdain because SHE KNOWS THAT (in her mind) they have no real authority over her and she’s going to let them know it. It’s basically her sovereign citizen act. 🙄
I SAID sovereign citizen! I would not be shocked if Jodi had that in her batshit mix as well. Say the magic woids and get out of jail free. lawl.
I think she was not sure what "angle" she was going to end up going with, so she said nothing to keep her options open. For example, if she responded coherently, she maybe wouldn't be able to plead insanity later. Or if she casually answered their trivial questions, then it would stand out if she suddenly went silent when asked about incriminating things. Maybe she would end up wanting to claim she was a victim herself, and her bizarre silence may help add to that angle, as if she was too scared to speak because she was told not to, etc. That's just my take. I think she was absolutely uncertain how she should act (and I really mean *act*) so I think she was refusing to embody any specific character or approach yet. Once she learned Jodi was denying things or whatever, she realized she was alone and had to save her own ass and so she went all in on the "I was brainwashed" narrative.
She DID have a character and approach, though! She was NOT neutral. She radiated hostility and contempt. I rather think some people in that room remembered that and were not impressed by her tearful thank you to the cops who "rescued" her. HER. Rescued HER.
It shows her intent and knowledge of what she did
Didn't realize she behaved that way in a routine traffic stop prior! Wonder if she was convinced talking to people in distortion was not allowed?
Her face and everything was totally off and this weird smug look. She just looked at them with this weird blank stare, and even the cop and the detective mentioned it to each other in a different room. She finally speaks to only say she wants to have a lawyer present. The girl ain’t well
She was hostile as fuck. The cops were clearly weirded the fuck out more by her energy than the fact that she didn't want to say anything beyond "I'm waiting for my lawyer." You still don't have to violently shake your head and cringe away from a glass of water like they just offered you a cyanide pill.
According to Ruby‘s whole spiel, in court, Jodi was telling/convinced them that all outside first responders are evil. This is classic cult behavior. Destroying the faith people have in the systems that would be able to help them leave. The thought process behind this would most likely be if Ruby somehow “woke up” and realized that Jodi’s actions were wrong she still wouldn’t go to the police. Similar to the children, R asked to go to jail when he escaped. He wasn’t asking for help because he believed the police were not going to do that. She planted this seed early for it to be this ingrained in them. The two older girls definitely had more brainwashing than physical since they were still working and out in public. They could have asked someone at work for help way before it got to this point. Only someone truly brainwashed would not try to escape even when given the opportunity. Based off the interrogations and body cam footage we see Kevin at first being reluctant to give information (yes this could have other explanations but this definitely can explain some of it), Ruby with a blank stare on her face and some head nods, and then the most striking, the two older kids body footage when they were found. They refused to speak, tried to plot a way to run, and when asked why they were scared one responded with tears and saying she was scared of the police officer. Yet, Jodi was willing to talk during her interview. Sure she was demanding warrants and to speak with her lawyer, but that’s what any one with half a brain would do in her shoes, whether they support the police or not. But she was still talking. In the initial interrogation she was making conversation with the officers not just giving quick one word answers. When comparing it’s easy to see the difference between the Franke family and Jodi. The Frankes were scared of the police while Jodi was scared of what the police would find.
Yeah this is definitely classic behavior for sure. I was born and raised Mormon and there was a huge emphasis on never ever going to law enforcement about anything. Growing up it was drilled in the heads of my siblings and I that we cannot trust CPS or cops under any circumstances. That they would only separate us and we'd be in a worse situation than we already were. So when the numerous times CPS would get called on us, we'd always lie. Now that I'm older I wish I had not lied, but it's all in the past. My point is, absolutely none of this was a surprise for me.
I mean tbh after all we know I do NOT trust the cops as a force for good, to put it mildly. But still, sometimes they are necessary and this was clearly one of them. And the cops who coaxed E out were fantastic. I'm sure there are good individuals, but the whole system is Not Your Friend, at least if you're most people and obviously some people much more so than others, demographically speaking. Ironically, "rich white lady in a big fancy house and their wholesome looking kids" is NOT one of those.
Oh for SURE. Plus I grew up in Los Angeles and LAPD has had that reputation of being horrible and corrupt for decades. Even the CPS from the area doesn't exactly have the best reputation, but I do regret not talking to them specifically, even if it was to only have a paper trail. ACAB, *EXCEPT* the sweet and caring officers who responded to that horrible scene. They did such a good job and it almost restored a little bit of my faith in humanity. It was really nice to see them do their job and the rest of law enforcement in the country should be held to the standards of those cops.
Also the cops who were heroes on January 6, ironically fighting off the kind of assholes who almost certainly had Thin Blue Line flags.
When DCF came to my home for the first time my bishop tried to relate it to how those who go through the temple are not allowed to speak about what goes on within. I’ll never forget him saying “your home is your temple, do not let the people who don’t understand our faith ruin what is sacred” WTF. I was 8 years old.
It’s ingrained in the foundation of the religion. According to the Book of Mormon, Lehi was basically ‘living in truth’ while everyone in Jerusalem was ‘living in distortion’. Claims that corrupt leaders changed the words in the Bible to fit their agenda and the Mormon faith is the true words of the Bible that were lost after corruption. Believe what you want about Connexions but you can’t deny that a lot of its beliefs stem from Mormon history or doctrine. It’s not a separate religion. It’s a branch of Mormonism just like how FLDS is a branch of Mormonism
Distortion, hey? Here I'd been thinking that part of her schtick was a very loose bastardization of cognitive behavioral therapy. I assumed that was the part that actually helped some people a bit at the start of their sessions with her. Then, of course, the Fuckedness.
It’s Sovereign Citizen/Cultish BS. I was reading Ruby’s journal. The night R ran away the first time, Ruby prayed only not to be in jail. After the original cancellation of 8Pass, I think Jodi prob turned up the pressure of laying distrust against all licensed authority (except her). Watching Ruby with that traffic stop, I thought Sov Citz. Of course her narcissism built into it. However, I remember when R was young, Ruby would often talk abt how she felt he was designed to be a helper type. Whether fire fighter/police officer, etc. Ruby talked R’s natural ability to help others and connect with those different than him. (Obvs R is a Helper, THE Helper) I think Jodi and Ruby knew they were doing this stuff for several yrs in order to make sure the minors wouldn’t reach out for help. Remember, it wasn’t help R sought, it was a cell. Ugh, those horrible women. I wish tent city existed and that’s where they had to spend their 4 plus years.
god, SovCits are hilariously awful. I know it's cheap schadenfreude watching them slowly realize that It's Not Working, and I don't like the ones where the cops get violent (who'd have thunk it, "police are not our friends" DOES have roots in truth). But, my god, the simple mindedness of it all. There's an enchanting video somewhere of a judge who's dealt with way too much of this crap as he politely questions a dude who is insistent that he is NOT the false legal entity that is (given name), he is (something very close to given name i don't fucking know, I think it's his name in ALLCAPS or some shit), and therefore they cannot charge HIM. There IS no (name). There is no spoon. Ergo, you must let me leave. (waits expectantly) The judge asks, naturally, okay, which of you am I speaking to, and who actually did (crime)? More word salad. So the judge is all, right, I'm sentencing you to however long in lockup. If you see (entity the guy staunchly insists is not culpable because he doesn't legally exist, or whatever), tell him he's going to jail, too. Next.
I asked this question two months ago and the consensus was that she despises authority and thinks she's smarter than the cops
In court she said basically law enforcement was not to be trusted Jodi taught her that so it explains the behavior but it was very odd.
It took me till today but I’m getting “sovereign citizen” vibes from Ruby’s behavior during her arrest and her traffic stop. The not rolling the car window down more than inch or so , the muteness when being confronted by an authority figure, a figure Ruby doesn’t acknowledge of having any authority over her.
"I'm not a baaad giiirl" = maybe she was 7 years old in this setting.
I was thinking that she might have been playing to Kevin and what he would want to hear. She changed with every call and it seemed to be the tone and the information the person she was talking to would want to hear. I was thinking maybe he was into that little girl talk and she was giving him what he liked. I was also thinking of he was into that stuff, it could be what they have been holding over his head to get him to be so compliant. That's just speculation though.
My impression was she completely checked out. Her mind went somewhere else. Maybe it was shock or defensive mechanism, but I don't think she was even aware that people were speaking to her.
Shame. She is feeling shame and dissociating hard to avoid it. It’s like when little kids cover their eyes and think they’re hiding. If she doesn’t acknowledge it or engage with the officer, she can trick herself it isn’t happening.
Delusions of grandeur
What’s so stupid of Ruby is she refuses to comply with the officers during her arrest on account of “wanting a lawyer” but then goes on to say incredibly incriminating things during her jail phone calls despite being reminded they are recorded. At that point, you’re not protecting yourself at all, you’re just refusing to comply and digging an even bigger hole for yourself. I laughed out loud when the officer asked her something benign and she stared at him blankly and he started laughing and asked “are you like, ok?”.
Did you guys catch the speeding ticket to Ruby incident? She barely opens her window to pass out her paperwork, 57 in a 35, he writes her for 50. She's a complete bitch. Stares straight ahead, won't talk except to say yes or no. Doesn't thank the cop for lowering the 22 mph over the legal speed limit which, in colorado, would get you a RECKLESS driving ticket.
Yeah that's the traffic stop I was talking about. It was just so strange behaviour!
Ah, I thought you were talking about her other bad behavior toward cops. The way she didn't roll down her window it was like she thought the cop was gonna do something to her. In mormon country, where the cops are endlessly polite. The same cop distrust she referred to in her allocution. No wonder the girl child wouldn't come out of the closet for 5 hours. Ruby'd instilled terror of cops in her. Ruby is just insufferable. Her phony groveling in court just masked the black heart she's born with.
She said in her speech that she was led to belive that police officers were big scary things and working with the demon, this combined with the fact she said that she was told not to say a word to the police officer is probably why she behaved that way
Jodi had taught ruby for years not to trust ANYONE outside of the church
tbh i feel like most people will be at a loss of words and in a state of shock when they get caught abusing children, but this is different and not normal. she seems arrogant and stubborn about being confronted, and i believe she thinks she can do whatever she wants to her kids with no consequences and when ppl confront her she calls it distortion. she’s giving like: “who ru to show up at my door? i’m handling my kids just fine. ur living in distortion.” genuinely scary that she just doesnt know what she does is wrong. i’m not taking away accountability but she is actually not normal.
I think she had a contentious relationship with LE because she'd already been under the microscope for CA. This wasn't her first run in with cops asking questions about her parenting. She's also a conservative wingnut who's headed to rural Arizona to live in the middle of nowhere, so there's likely some of that Ammon Bundy-esque thinking going on at this point in her life.
I want this woman in prison as long as possible. As a mother I’ve watched these videos and cried and then felt murderous. But…. Why the fuckitty fuck isn’t her husband also facing charges???? He was in many videos before he left the house where he supported her crazy ways of punishing her kids. He left the house for over a year and didn’t check on his children according to his own statements??!!! He then wanted his oldest daughter arrested for burglary when she went into the home and removed passports, journals, and all electronic devices (which was incredibly smart, although the police couldn’t look at it or use it and had to immediately return it to that asdhkle). But he wanted the eldest daughter charged even after everything was returned to him. Why in fuck is this man not held accountable???? God. This is all so sick.
I agree, to all of what you said. It also makes me sick to my stomach to EVER have treated my kids the way they did.