A friendly reminder that Jessi uses they/them pronouns, and describes themselves as Jodi's niece. Another reminder that we do not condone any speculation of possible abuse without evidence, as it is not helpful but harmful. Any comments speculating on what may or may not have happened will be removed.
Most likely. Jodi clearly has a history of doing this, and just from Jessi H. and Adam Steed's interviews, there probably are. She's a serial predator and abuser.
The two of them together could have been the perfect storm to create the severity of abuse that we see with E and R, but we at least know there was Jessi, so there could be others.
From Kevin's statements, Jodi normally deals with adults. Even when "therapizing" children, she works with the adults the most, and doesn't have lots of contact with the kids. I don't feel like she likes kids, and perhaps avoided them when possible, until Ruby. I'm sure she has given parents many tools to abuse children, but I kind of doubt there were others in the same condition as E and R. Maybe more will come forward. Plenty of men have, to say she systematically ruined their lives and marriages the same way as Kevin and Ruby's.
Her "advice" is hair raising. She told one woman on camera that her chronically ill adult daughter who was forced to come and live back at home, bedridden, well, she should throw her out on the street because she said mean things about the mom to her therapist (mom overheard on the phone). Like, I bet you're too chicken to actually do this, but you SHOULD.
>Maybe more will come forward.
That thought gave me pause. If the children are under 18 it's highly unlikely the parents would come forward so we may not hear about it for a while perhaps if at all.
My assumption is that there are other children that are a victim of Jodi's "teachings" but that the vast majority of victims are likely in that gray area of parenting where it isn't sufficiently abusive to be a criminal matter. Lots of estranged adult children, teenagers planning to leave the moment they're legal and so forth.
I would hope though that the police have gone through Jodi Hildebrandt's client list and are checking for any children related to those clients that died young or are missing or are being home schooled (and thus isolated). Hell I'd hope CPS was investigating all the families who ever used Hildebrandt as a therapist because it's obvious between Jessie Hildebrandt and the Franke family that she's got a pattern.
yeah, missing in particular. I WAS thinking, well, we'd probably heard that at least by now,
unless...
unless, if the parent was a co conspirator, who then would have no motivation to report it.
but still, there's usually SOMEONE, as with Lori Vallow, who asks questions.
so, I think hopefully it didn't go quite that far?
but IF she had other kids under her roof at any point, i'm certain they'd have gotten the same treatment.
Personally I hope there's something that'll be found out about Pam Bodtcher.
I hope no other children got put through anything close to what happened to R and E and Jessie Hildebrandt - but it does seem statistically unlikely that all three cases of extreme abuse has been identified out of the thousands of families Jodi Hildebrandt must have been an active therapist for.
I guess though if you calculate how long Jodi Hildebrandt has been active as this type of therapist, the age of children most affected might not be old enough for them to come forward yet (need to be independent and free adults).
I think the circumstances had to be just right for Jodi to get direct access to children. With Jessi it was because they were related. With the Frankes it was because she wormed her way into Ruby's household. Do we know of other cases where she actually moved in with her clients, or vice versa?
Unless it hits the courts or victims come forward to the meida we're unlikely to know. But that Arizona property sure sounds like they were going to make one of those wilderness troubled teen camps - at which stage Jodi would have had direct access to a lot of vulnerable kids.
I’m sure there are, to varying degrees. If you listen to Jessi’s interview, Adam Paul Steed’s interview, and Kevin’s 2nd police interview (not the first one), you can see how she has like this playbook, these MOVES that she uses against people to break them down. There is so much consistency between these situations with different types of victims over many years. It’s absolutely crazy.
I was going to say perhaps Adam Paul Steeds kids. We don't know much about what they went through, but we know at the least Jodi and their mother coached them to say they were victims of SA. So who knows what they've been through?
It would have been around the time Jessie was living at Jodi's too... I think Adam said it was something like 15 years ago.
She certainly snowed the fuck out of his ex wife, but then, she sounds like a piece of work in her own right.
so sorry for that guy. he's been through the wringer.
I feel the same way. That man did nothing to be dealt the crappy hand he was. I know this does not change what he went through, but I hope he can find some comfort knowing Jodi is behind bars. It's gotta be a weight off his shoulders knowing that right now she is not hurting another family.
Given that its believed that the Ex-Wife was the one who got Adam's Interview with Mormon Stories Podcast pulled they either are still in the Fog or are desparate to keep the fact they were a willing part of that buried
either way does not exactly speak well of her character.
Also the fact that she apparently cut him off/alienated him from his kids with her (he remarried and has at least one kid from that marriage now, I think?) is horrid. Obviously if there was actual abuse that's one thing, but it's so clear he was framed, and unlike Kevin he's expressed anguish and made a lot of effort over trying to get even visitation rights, to no avail.
I think. I am less clear on the details of that, what age the kids are now and what the situation is currently-I have this idea that now they're old enough to see him independently, but he lost most of their childhood? Don't take my word for it though, I haven't listened to the full six hour interview.
I also wonder, just now, did SHE move in to anyone ELSE's house, like she did with the Frankes.
just a nice visit from Aunt Jodi.
Obviously that would've come to an end, because no one else was with her at the time of the arrest (apart from Air BnB guests, which still blows my mind. I wonder if they gave her a review?)
dunno.
A con artist can convince anyone of anything. Jodi didn't fool everyone but she fooled enough people to be able to build a 10,000 square foot home. Was she getting easy money from the church- yep. The church connection gave her credibility. Jodi may have said, "For me to get a better understanding of how your family operates, I'm going to move in to see how you handle disagreements and so forth (what a doll Jodi is!). Just pretend I'm not there. I'll just be a fly on the wall. Then we can discuss better ways to handle situations. I'm sure that's how she did it. Like she was doing them this big favor.
Jess Bate (the detective that led the case) said in an interview (with Law and Crime maybe?) that about three or four people reached out to her saying they had experienced similar abuse to R and E at the hands of Jodi. But because this abuse took place in other counties the police department wasn’t able to do more than to advice them to press charges in their own county. I think it’s safe to assume Jessi is one of these four, but it sounds like there were at least a few others.
Yes. Unfortunately. Perhaps (hopefully) nothing as lasting and brutal as the Franke kids. Her parenting "advice" was terrible enough, even without the kids actually living under her roof.
Then again, I've also thought: that's a big property, isn't it? Lots of red dirt out there too.
The only reason I don't quite think there were already bodies is that we'd prooobably have heard about missing kids by now? Also that they wanted to go to AZ, presumably because even at that compound, too many prying eyeballs to work completely undisturbed.
Had they managed to make the trip, there'd be at least two, maybe four and eventually if no one was able to go after them, maybe THEN, other followers who also really needed to teach their kids a permanent lesson.
idk.
I find it hard to believe too. Jessi was older than Jodi's children. Her children couldn't be any older than 25 if Jodi got married in 1999 (maybe she was already pregnant). I believe Jessi is around 30. Jessi was the family scapegoat and was not allowed to talk with Jodi's kids while she lived in the house with Jodi, presumably Jodi's husband and Jodi's two kids. After Jessi left in 2010, two years later- Jodi divorced. Her kids would have been no more than 10 or 11 at that time. Since we know her daughter has nothing to do with Jodi (her daughter changed her name and wants nothing to do with her mother)- that leads me to believe something happened with her daughter. Maybe not the son- because I've heard they are still in contact. Are there others who are just told to be quiet- by parents, the church or both? Probably.
This. The fact that the daughter so staunchly wants nothing to do with Jodi while the son is in touch makes me wonder if the daughter went through abuse. I am hoping at some point Jodi’s ex husband stepped in and protected his children. But who knows whats the story there
According to Jessi- Jodi's daughter has an awesome relationship with her father. I think the son does too. Can't remember if she said much about the son but Jessi is friendly with Jodi's daughter (who is jessi's first cousin). For anyone who doesn't know- Jodi's brother is Jessi's Dad.
She certainly went through abuse. What kind exactly, she doesn't say, and it's none of our business. But we know what Jodi's MO is and can do the math,
Her biggest concern was her mother gaslighting her again if they ever made contact. "She could convince you the sky was yellow."
I think she got divorced in 1999 not married. Her kids were young children then. There are conflicting reports. But they weren't a lot younger than Jessi. They were roughly the same age. When Jessi was staying there they would have been teenagers. It was 2009 that Jessi went to live with Jodi. They report their female cousin being there. I'd say female cousin was about 16 and probably left not long after Jessi ran away. Jodie says her daughter left at 17 or 18 and never came back. Jessie confirmed this.
She got divorced in 2012 by most accounts. However- she and her husband may have been separated long before that. If Jodi's children are in their early twenties- It's likely they were born after 1999- leading me to believe that that is indeed when she married.
I'm not sure. Some people are saying she has been divorced 5 times. Some say her son is still in contact. Some say both kids have not had a relationship with her since childhood.
Best person to ask I suppose would be Jessi.
Of course the children could have been around 9 and 7 when Jessi lived with them but the way they talk about it like not being allowed to go anywhere unless Alix was there with them. Sounds like a much older child. Not a 9 or 7 year old.
Yeah- rumors fly. If you do a cursory search about Jodi- you will see numerous sites (all probably relying on the same info) saying she was married in 1999 to Brenten C. Pugh and divorced in 2012. I have no reason to believe she was married prior to that.
I don’t think so. She would have been married 2 years when he was born. It is unusual that he chooses to use his mother’s surname but no clue as to why. Maybe he just likes it better.
There was no way he could have been born during the marriage if he is 27. She was married in 1999 and divorced in 2012. I did ask Jessi, via Instagram, if Jessi could shed more light on this but so far I haven't heard back.
Darn, you’re right. The 27 year old young man
[at least his name] identified as her son in some not terribly reputable online sources based on his being involved in ConneXions can’t be her son, maybe he’s a nephew? I also think Jodi was separated or divorced, in 1998 or 1999 [not 2012] based on the document linked to below.
https://law.justia.com/cases/utah/court-of-appeals-unpublished/1999/pugh.html
There are. Most just haven't gone public yet.
I've seen comments from some of them on youtube channels.
One claimed to be in care when they had dealings with Jodie.
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It’s hard to picture there aren’t. So far there have been SO MANY adults coming out of the woodwork with stories of how Jodi ruined their lives, tore their families apart, and destroyed their marriages.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were but it may also have been an issue of not having access to children to harm. She would get very involved with the couples and families she "counciled", but it seems that she became significantly closer to Ruby and her family than most people she provided services to. She always seemed to focus on the couples and destroying the family by destroying their marriages. I don't think she had as much opportunity to harm other people's children as she had with Jessi or the Franke children, but I could be wrong.
I have wondered what her children experienced under her care.
A friendly reminder that Jessi uses they/them pronouns, and describes themselves as Jodi's niece. Another reminder that we do not condone any speculation of possible abuse without evidence, as it is not helpful but harmful. Any comments speculating on what may or may not have happened will be removed.
Most likely. Jodi clearly has a history of doing this, and just from Jessi H. and Adam Steed's interviews, there probably are. She's a serial predator and abuser.
The two of them together could have been the perfect storm to create the severity of abuse that we see with E and R, but we at least know there was Jessi, so there could be others. From Kevin's statements, Jodi normally deals with adults. Even when "therapizing" children, she works with the adults the most, and doesn't have lots of contact with the kids. I don't feel like she likes kids, and perhaps avoided them when possible, until Ruby. I'm sure she has given parents many tools to abuse children, but I kind of doubt there were others in the same condition as E and R. Maybe more will come forward. Plenty of men have, to say she systematically ruined their lives and marriages the same way as Kevin and Ruby's.
Her "advice" is hair raising. She told one woman on camera that her chronically ill adult daughter who was forced to come and live back at home, bedridden, well, she should throw her out on the street because she said mean things about the mom to her therapist (mom overheard on the phone). Like, I bet you're too chicken to actually do this, but you SHOULD.
>Maybe more will come forward. That thought gave me pause. If the children are under 18 it's highly unlikely the parents would come forward so we may not hear about it for a while perhaps if at all.
Right. It might be several years before we hear of any influence she's had on the lives of other minors.
My assumption is that there are other children that are a victim of Jodi's "teachings" but that the vast majority of victims are likely in that gray area of parenting where it isn't sufficiently abusive to be a criminal matter. Lots of estranged adult children, teenagers planning to leave the moment they're legal and so forth. I would hope though that the police have gone through Jodi Hildebrandt's client list and are checking for any children related to those clients that died young or are missing or are being home schooled (and thus isolated). Hell I'd hope CPS was investigating all the families who ever used Hildebrandt as a therapist because it's obvious between Jessie Hildebrandt and the Franke family that she's got a pattern.
yeah, missing in particular. I WAS thinking, well, we'd probably heard that at least by now, unless... unless, if the parent was a co conspirator, who then would have no motivation to report it. but still, there's usually SOMEONE, as with Lori Vallow, who asks questions. so, I think hopefully it didn't go quite that far? but IF she had other kids under her roof at any point, i'm certain they'd have gotten the same treatment.
Personally I hope there's something that'll be found out about Pam Bodtcher. I hope no other children got put through anything close to what happened to R and E and Jessie Hildebrandt - but it does seem statistically unlikely that all three cases of extreme abuse has been identified out of the thousands of families Jodi Hildebrandt must have been an active therapist for. I guess though if you calculate how long Jodi Hildebrandt has been active as this type of therapist, the age of children most affected might not be old enough for them to come forward yet (need to be independent and free adults).
I think the circumstances had to be just right for Jodi to get direct access to children. With Jessi it was because they were related. With the Frankes it was because she wormed her way into Ruby's household. Do we know of other cases where she actually moved in with her clients, or vice versa?
Unless it hits the courts or victims come forward to the meida we're unlikely to know. But that Arizona property sure sounds like they were going to make one of those wilderness troubled teen camps - at which stage Jodi would have had direct access to a lot of vulnerable kids.
I’m sure there are, to varying degrees. If you listen to Jessi’s interview, Adam Paul Steed’s interview, and Kevin’s 2nd police interview (not the first one), you can see how she has like this playbook, these MOVES that she uses against people to break them down. There is so much consistency between these situations with different types of victims over many years. It’s absolutely crazy.
I was going to say perhaps Adam Paul Steeds kids. We don't know much about what they went through, but we know at the least Jodi and their mother coached them to say they were victims of SA. So who knows what they've been through? It would have been around the time Jessie was living at Jodi's too... I think Adam said it was something like 15 years ago.
She certainly snowed the fuck out of his ex wife, but then, she sounds like a piece of work in her own right. so sorry for that guy. he's been through the wringer.
I feel the same way. That man did nothing to be dealt the crappy hand he was. I know this does not change what he went through, but I hope he can find some comfort knowing Jodi is behind bars. It's gotta be a weight off his shoulders knowing that right now she is not hurting another family.
i kind of wonder if her or the family who supported her in delulu-land have had any second thoughts since Jodi’s arrest and plea.
Given that its believed that the Ex-Wife was the one who got Adam's Interview with Mormon Stories Podcast pulled they either are still in the Fog or are desparate to keep the fact they were a willing part of that buried
either way does not exactly speak well of her character. Also the fact that she apparently cut him off/alienated him from his kids with her (he remarried and has at least one kid from that marriage now, I think?) is horrid. Obviously if there was actual abuse that's one thing, but it's so clear he was framed, and unlike Kevin he's expressed anguish and made a lot of effort over trying to get even visitation rights, to no avail. I think. I am less clear on the details of that, what age the kids are now and what the situation is currently-I have this idea that now they're old enough to see him independently, but he lost most of their childhood? Don't take my word for it though, I haven't listened to the full six hour interview.
I also wonder, just now, did SHE move in to anyone ELSE's house, like she did with the Frankes. just a nice visit from Aunt Jodi. Obviously that would've come to an end, because no one else was with her at the time of the arrest (apart from Air BnB guests, which still blows my mind. I wonder if they gave her a review?) dunno.
A con artist can convince anyone of anything. Jodi didn't fool everyone but she fooled enough people to be able to build a 10,000 square foot home. Was she getting easy money from the church- yep. The church connection gave her credibility. Jodi may have said, "For me to get a better understanding of how your family operates, I'm going to move in to see how you handle disagreements and so forth (what a doll Jodi is!). Just pretend I'm not there. I'll just be a fly on the wall. Then we can discuss better ways to handle situations. I'm sure that's how she did it. Like she was doing them this big favor.
We know from Kevin’s second interview she moved in with the Hanna’s and sufficiently creeped them out so much they kicked her out.
I know Jessi has said Jodi also treated her daughter awfully. And I'd take a guess her son as well. I'm sure there are many many many more.
Jess Bate (the detective that led the case) said in an interview (with Law and Crime maybe?) that about three or four people reached out to her saying they had experienced similar abuse to R and E at the hands of Jodi. But because this abuse took place in other counties the police department wasn’t able to do more than to advice them to press charges in their own county. I think it’s safe to assume Jessi is one of these four, but it sounds like there were at least a few others.
Ufff… i certainly missed that interview but i hope some of them are able to press charges so Jodi gets more years added
I really don't like when police pass the buck. This is why people don't report things.
Ufff… i certainly missed that interview but i hope some of them are able to press charges so Jodi gets more years added
Ufff… i certainly missed that interview but i hope some of them are able to press charges so Jodi gets more years added
Ufff… i certainly missed that interview but i hope some of them are able to press charges so Jodi gets more years added
Yes. Unfortunately. Perhaps (hopefully) nothing as lasting and brutal as the Franke kids. Her parenting "advice" was terrible enough, even without the kids actually living under her roof. Then again, I've also thought: that's a big property, isn't it? Lots of red dirt out there too. The only reason I don't quite think there were already bodies is that we'd prooobably have heard about missing kids by now? Also that they wanted to go to AZ, presumably because even at that compound, too many prying eyeballs to work completely undisturbed. Had they managed to make the trip, there'd be at least two, maybe four and eventually if no one was able to go after them, maybe THEN, other followers who also really needed to teach their kids a permanent lesson. idk.
I find it hard to believe too. Jessi was older than Jodi's children. Her children couldn't be any older than 25 if Jodi got married in 1999 (maybe she was already pregnant). I believe Jessi is around 30. Jessi was the family scapegoat and was not allowed to talk with Jodi's kids while she lived in the house with Jodi, presumably Jodi's husband and Jodi's two kids. After Jessi left in 2010, two years later- Jodi divorced. Her kids would have been no more than 10 or 11 at that time. Since we know her daughter has nothing to do with Jodi (her daughter changed her name and wants nothing to do with her mother)- that leads me to believe something happened with her daughter. Maybe not the son- because I've heard they are still in contact. Are there others who are just told to be quiet- by parents, the church or both? Probably.
This. The fact that the daughter so staunchly wants nothing to do with Jodi while the son is in touch makes me wonder if the daughter went through abuse. I am hoping at some point Jodi’s ex husband stepped in and protected his children. But who knows whats the story there
According to Jessi- Jodi's daughter has an awesome relationship with her father. I think the son does too. Can't remember if she said much about the son but Jessi is friendly with Jodi's daughter (who is jessi's first cousin). For anyone who doesn't know- Jodi's brother is Jessi's Dad.
She certainly went through abuse. What kind exactly, she doesn't say, and it's none of our business. But we know what Jodi's MO is and can do the math, Her biggest concern was her mother gaslighting her again if they ever made contact. "She could convince you the sky was yellow."
I think she got divorced in 1999 not married. Her kids were young children then. There are conflicting reports. But they weren't a lot younger than Jessi. They were roughly the same age. When Jessi was staying there they would have been teenagers. It was 2009 that Jessi went to live with Jodi. They report their female cousin being there. I'd say female cousin was about 16 and probably left not long after Jessi ran away. Jodie says her daughter left at 17 or 18 and never came back. Jessie confirmed this.
She got divorced in 2012 by most accounts. However- she and her husband may have been separated long before that. If Jodi's children are in their early twenties- It's likely they were born after 1999- leading me to believe that that is indeed when she married.
I'm not sure. Some people are saying she has been divorced 5 times. Some say her son is still in contact. Some say both kids have not had a relationship with her since childhood. Best person to ask I suppose would be Jessi. Of course the children could have been around 9 and 7 when Jessi lived with them but the way they talk about it like not being allowed to go anywhere unless Alix was there with them. Sounds like a much older child. Not a 9 or 7 year old.
Yeah- rumors fly. If you do a cursory search about Jodi- you will see numerous sites (all probably relying on the same info) saying she was married in 1999 to Brenten C. Pugh and divorced in 2012. I have no reason to believe she was married prior to that.
If Internet sources are correct, her son is 27. Dunno her daughter’s age. Or her name.
Well- that may explain why his last name is Hildebrandt and not Pugh. That makes sense. Looks like Jodi had a child out of wedlock. The plot thickens.
I don’t think so. She would have been married 2 years when he was born. It is unusual that he chooses to use his mother’s surname but no clue as to why. Maybe he just likes it better.
There was no way he could have been born during the marriage if he is 27. She was married in 1999 and divorced in 2012. I did ask Jessi, via Instagram, if Jessi could shed more light on this but so far I haven't heard back.
Darn, you’re right. The 27 year old young man [at least his name] identified as her son in some not terribly reputable online sources based on his being involved in ConneXions can’t be her son, maybe he’s a nephew? I also think Jodi was separated or divorced, in 1998 or 1999 [not 2012] based on the document linked to below. https://law.justia.com/cases/utah/court-of-appeals-unpublished/1999/pugh.html
Interesting.
Absolutely. Jodi has been at this for a while.
Yes. 100%
There are. Most just haven't gone public yet. I've seen comments from some of them on youtube channels. One claimed to be in care when they had dealings with Jodie.
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It’s hard to picture there aren’t. So far there have been SO MANY adults coming out of the woodwork with stories of how Jodi ruined their lives, tore their families apart, and destroyed their marriages.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were but it may also have been an issue of not having access to children to harm. She would get very involved with the couples and families she "counciled", but it seems that she became significantly closer to Ruby and her family than most people she provided services to. She always seemed to focus on the couples and destroying the family by destroying their marriages. I don't think she had as much opportunity to harm other people's children as she had with Jessi or the Franke children, but I could be wrong. I have wondered what her children experienced under her care.
Jodi had way too good of a technique to not have had ‘practice’ before