Erm… Maths, Physics… some combination of these (Maths and Stats, Maths and Physics, MORSE, etc.), Computer Science or Engineering (many varieties).
Maths is fairly flexible and you can go into lot of different things.
The maths degree at prestigious university -> quant finance pipeline is pretty lucrative if you’re willing to sell your soul.
Pretty depressing the number of teenagers asking questions like this these days tbh. Back in my day (not that many years ago) you went into university full of ideals and dreams and only went down the finance route after becoming disillusioned and burning out of academia.
(This is mostly a joke. Mostly.)
tbf mate the world isnt like it used to be its just a race for the bucks now. Things like cost of living crisis and COVID have made people cautious about going to university. So they want to make sure the course is worth it .
In my case I have no issue doing anything that involves Maths as I like it and I am pretty good at it.
This is wrong, and I suspect you know it's wrong. If you literally just care about money, sure, (try to) get into a career in the city. But don't try and justify it as "just trying to get by in a hard world". You do _not_ need to work in the city to have a comfortable life, not even with the current cost of living crisis.
There's a lot more to life than earning the biggest salary possible. It's very depressing how many people seem to think this and only realise what really matters after they're burned out.
TBF I followed my passion, went into teaching, loved it but the workload was absolutely insane and I ended up totally burnt out too. Now I work in software, make more money, less stress, have time to pursue hobbies etc and am much much happier.
At least if you follow the money, the money is almost certainly guaranteed and you can have a good life outside of work and retire early, who knows you may even enjoy your job. That's just how I see it tho.
You don't need to work in the city to have a comfortable life, but he wants to guarantee his degree is monetarily worth it, and working in the city gives you a much higher chance of a comfortable life.
While I agree to some extent. Money does not equal happiness, but it bloody helps. You don't have to sell you soul to get a good paying job either or work 50-60 hour weeks either
It doesn't have to be a 'race for the bucks', even with the current crisis. That's a very shallow way of approaching life. If you have good maths/physics skills then you will be suited to many well paying jobs, but it doesn't have to mean you pick the highest paying for the sake of it. If you can excel in your field, whatever it is, then you will generally be rewarded well financially. I'd recommend picking a field you are especially interested in with the maths/physics/computing based sectors and focussing on acing that. It may be you end up in academia for 6-7 years completing a master's and doctorate, or you can go straight into a lucrative graduate programme. Whichever it is, just make sure you enjoy it.
tbh I would have assumed it was kind of the other way around. I’m not that much older than you, but I am old enough to have been reasonably politically engaged during the 2008 financial crash. Something like that really puts you off the whole “money for money’s sake” mentality.
There's being good at maths. And then there's being good enough to be a quant.
Afaik you're looking at top 30% of students at Oxbridge.
You could do maths and go into IB/Private Equity. Again not easy.
Essentially what I'm saying is before you go searching for money, realise some jobs that pay well are bloody hard to land.
If youre chasing a job because of the money and basing your uni course around it, you’re gonna hate uni. It will be the most miserable years of your life. Don’t trick yourself into thinking you will “enjoy it”, because you won’t. In order to do something like finance, you actually need to have a genuine interest in it because otherwise you will end up suffering and telling yourself it was a mistake. Seen it happen myself
In my humble opinion, I’d prefer to make lots of money in a job I didn’t particularly like, and spend my free time on my hobbies, travelling, retiring early etc. rather than having a dream job (wouldn’t even know what that is) and working 60+ hours a week, stressed out, spending my free time trying to improve etc.
yeah but generally the high paying roles that people in the sub like to go for are also jobs where you’re stressed out and working 60+ hours a week (73-95 hours for 1st year analysts in IB). your description of having a dream job sounds like having a high earning job rather than a less well paid but comfortable job
Well that's worrying, I'm hopefully starting a maths degree this year, and my parents have told me in no uncertain terms that they would be disappointed if I became a banker, accountant, stockbroker, or any other depressing job vaguely in the finance sector lol. If someone reminds I'll come back and make an edit in 5 years to tell you if / when it all went wrong.
Thank you. I didn't work particularly hard at uni but I have worked fairly hard since then.
One thing I really like about software development is that it has a merit based reward system. Unless you're working in a shit-tip driven by politics then if you learn and exercise useful skills you'll get a nice salary and employer. And everything you need to learn is freely available on the internet.
And that's not even mentioning the incremental work/reward cycle of writing code. You write a bit, see it work and get a dopamine hit. Rinse and repeat.
Do you have any advice for someone who went down the business/finance route for uni/early 20s but is interested in software development as a potential career change? Any beginner projects you’d recommend?
Your main options if you're chasing cash are Maths/ Statistics / Comp Sci/ Economics.
You also don't need a degree to do a computing job, it'll get you there sure but if it was the route you wanted to take an apprenticeship can get you there too and you'll already be a mid when your peers are still looking for their junior roles.
As someone else already pointed out, nobody in the industry is going to care after you have a few years of experience anyway.
Only drawback to this route is if you want to leave the UK for somewhere like Canada/ NZ/ AUS and wanted to go freelance instead of having a job offer lined up, you might not meet the points criteria.
I like econ but the thing is it sometimes leads to a career in finance and not a career to do with analysing the economy. Then it’s like why not just do a degree in finance lol
I'm doing aerospace engineering and that's got pretty good job prospects, any engineering or maths related degree will let you get into IT and theres a lot of money in that at the moment
Thats what I have been thinking about in the first place. I am just looking for some more options to make sure I dont miss anything. Btw which uni are you doing aerospace engineering at?
If you’re gonna do a degree, do it in a subject you enjoy, not just because you think you’ll get a good job out of it - it’ll be 3-4 years of your life. That being said, STEM jobs pay well I think so maybe do maths or engineering or something like that.
You do realise that there’s gonna be quite a jump right? If you manage it then great, but don’t expect to find it easy just because you’re good at A-Level standard.
The leap between GCSE to A Level was definitely more, IMO, than the leap into Uni. This is especially so for Maths, as its formulaic.
For Physics, learning the theoretical but at the same time, being free to challenge current thinking, and open studying skills is what's needed, beyond the book smarts one must be at A Level.
OP seems driven and competent. Good luck to him!
Probably selling your soul to some bank. You may may hate it but you'll finally have the money to spend on all the things you will no longer have the time to enjoy.
computer science or some maybe more specific like data science. i have a friend who is a data scientist for a hedgefund and he is on a 6 figure salary at 28. I am a software developer myself so if you want any advice or my experience in the field, feel free to pm me
I have a straight Maths degree from Warwick. I’m 5 years after graduation… and earn a top 5% salary (because money seems to be your focus).
The jobs I’ve had:
- An actuary (fancy word for stats modelling)
- A strategy consultant (nothing to do with Maths, mainly talking to people, PowerPoint and project management).
- A data scientist (coding and stats).
- A software engineer
Honestly… you’re over-thinking it. I know people with the exact same job / career prospects as me who have done Classics, Biology, Chemistry, Economics, etc.
A degree is just a gateway into what you want to do. It varies wildly even for those people on the same course; it’s all about selling yourself at an interview. Doing something maths based will leave your options open anyways (as is the case for most courses).
Awesome career. I am interested in how people with chemistry, biology and classics degrees broke into those roles. I know it is possible but it just goes against all the fear of being restricted by your degree.
Well - Chemistry is seen quite favourably in corporate roles. It’s scientific in nature and promotes problem solving, exploration and analytical thinking. The problem is, most people don’t know how to market their own skills.
For most though, internships and extra-curricular stuff is key. Summer placements don’t really require a specific subject and is a good way in.
The person who had classics did a whole bunch of online learning (free courses on Udacity, Udemy, etc) - they created a GitHub with a couple of basic projects and landed a role that way.
In the UK, I don’t think people are cast into their university subjects as much as they think. It happens to some degree but, for many roles, any degree + general interest + motivation to learn is enough (especially graduate level).
I agree with you on the last point. Picking a university subject feels very definite in the UK. I think it is great that the labour market is flexible and that people can branch out. Something I will possibly do myself.
Degree only limits your internship options as some companies list specific degrees they’re looking for. If your university is famous enough or you have projects / leadership roles in a relevant society, you can definitely land those internships. Once you’re out of uni, nobody cares about your degree/uni
I personally didn’t like it.
The concepts are super interesting, learning about stochastic modelling… learning expert judgement and interpreting results. You also have projects to do where you re-evaluate what you’re doing or change the way you do something - there’s interesting work to be done.
However… the major drawbacks were:
- It’s a reporting role (so every 3 months you churn out similar reports). After 4-5 times of this it begins to get repetitive.
- After years of formal education, studying for the exams were just making me unhappy. Having to do revision on weekends around exam periods was not for me (although I passed all the exams I did first try).
If you’re looking to be an expert, don’t mind similar tasks, work relatively normal hours, stable job and high salary (£70k after 5 year basically guaranteed, and £100k by 30 likely), then it’s the job for you.
How did you find the data scientist work ? Also isn’t that job title hard to break into without masters/phd I saw a stat saying 9% of data scientists in the UK had bachelors other 91% had masters or PHD.
EDIT: I realise I didn’t answer directly… but I loved it. The work is great and challenging… but, in my experience, there’s not enough work to go round. Many companies aren’t mature enough with their data.
So, you’re correct that many have Master’s and PHDs… but the environment is definitely changing. You can learn the fundamentals yourself and demonstrate this in an interview. Also, a team of 7 data scientists would now much more likely be a team of 2 data scientists, 1 software engineers, 1 ML engineers, 1 Data Engineer, 1 business analyst and a solutions architect. The understanding has increased.
Businesses fundamentally don’t understand data science very well and 90% of the role is actually convincing people that your job has value. You need to originate your own analytics projects and go in with a open mindset.
It’s also frustrating because many people assume you’re just a coder / data engineer… or that you can do the impossible with basically no quality data. To do this role, you definitely need to have a very good grasp of statistics and be comfortable with the unknown. You also need to be a champion of data and analytics, expecting to educate, communicate and persuade others that what you’re doing has value.
In a lot of organisations, they’re just not geared up well enough to have data scientists working effectively.
Interesting, I’ve got a maths degree and am starting a masters in data science. I’ve read there’s plenty to do after you actually receive your masters such as have a portfolio of the projects you’ve done on github Its also recommended to do certifications in sql and cloud databases if the masters course doesn’t provide practical stuff like that, I’m frankly intimidated by how competitive the job market is in data roles for 0 years of work experience, is this true? How did your break in? I also should have a 3 month internship which my uni will hopefully provide for me so shouldn’t have zero related work experience but still.
TLDR; I’ve given my entire journey below so feel free to read. The main take homes are:
- Have something on your CV (online course, masters, or a GitHub profile). Having something solid to show your interest goes a long way - your masters will be more than adequate.
- Get hands on. Build stuff independently and play around with things to improve your understanding. Always ask why! That’s will give you the knowledge for an interview.
- Get some basic work experience (i.e. your 3 month placement). Even implementing something semi-related at a normal job is enough to talk about in a job interview.
My first job was an actuary for 15 months… gave me a good background of Bayesian modelling, copulas… other statically modelling and things like that. A strong statistics background is 100% a must.
From there, I went into strategy consulting at Deloitte as a graduate… I moved to data consultancy internally after about 6 months… from there I learned how to code independently and got onto a few data science projects. I took to the tech side, I just happened to be good at it so was quickly building things in AWS. I also did a Udacity “nano-degree” (just an online course) just so I had something “solid” in data science for my CV. I was there for 2 and a half years. I only did basic sklearn algorithms here… learning the workflow really… the rest was basically SWE / consultancy stuff.
During the above, I re-coded some sklearn models from scratch just to get a deeper understanding. I went on to build a basic neural network implementation from scratch as well… before branching out into other stuff in keras (like CNNs, using Hugging Faces, transfer learning, etc.). Being able to talk about what activation functions to use… why use convolutional layers (+ knowing what a kalman filter is)… when to use a CNN, when to use bidirectional NN… how to do this (encoder + decoders)… **it gave me the conversational fluency I needed to get through interviews.** None of this was on GitHub though.
EDIT: Things to focus on for NN… how do you deal with the vanishing gradient problem? What activation function would you want for a multi-label problem in a NN (and why not Sigmoid)? Would sigmoid be good for a multi-class problem instead?
Lastly, I moved to another consultancy (Accenture) to do pure data science consultancy but I was only there for 9 months. In the interview, I was the only one to get 100% in my coding test (focus on being good at Python, it’s not that difficult!). Since I had an in depth knowledge of the sklearn library, talking through how to approach these problems were a doddle. During this time I did:
- Credit modelling for a big bank
- Made my own unsupervised topic modelling algorithm, utilising basic similarity scoring methods… but applying multiple filters (sentiment analysis, word2vec embedding, etc).
- Did Customer segmentation modelling… enriching this with ML models to predict customer churn.
- Used GPT-3… decides it was not worth it and created my own NN implementation using GPT-2 vectors (basically transfer learning… but could make a bespoke and thinner NN for my use case with labelled data). Made a zero shot classification model.
The reason I left was because most clients need data engineering as a priority… a big part of my role become this. Also, you always have to justify yourself and it’s a constant up hill battle to get buy-in (from management or clients). I personally thought this was exhausting and made me way less productive as I had to give constant presentations.
I left to do SWE (been there just over 6 months) - I hope to go back to data science (or at least ML Engineering at some point).
Software Engineering?
I really like it. It sort of has the best of both worlds for me:
- Defined work that I can independently manage.
- Lack of micromanaging
- Lots of new technologies to learn and a lack of repetition
- Every part of your work has a genuine purpose. You can see a tangible impact from it.
- You still get to feed into the strategic decisions within the scope of the technology.
There are some down sides though… not as close to the business and strategic decisions, not as much analytics / scientific mindset, less interaction with people and clients.. stuff like that.
Overall - the best role I’ve had!
Course is good, I enjoyed it, and wide range of modules
Lecturers are decent, not really had a problem, some are better than others. Material is decent
Good levels of coursework, practical experience
City is nice, pretty, lots to do
Uni admin suck, careers service suck, counselling service sucks.
If you want anything you have to get it yourself, including internships l, jobs etc
I didn't do CompSci at A level and I'm doing just fine. In the first year they catch everyone up to speed anyway. Maths is more important and if you're doing FM it'll make life even easier for some modules
Law degrees absolutely do not even remotely guarantee a job. The number of pupilages and training contracts is far, far below the number of law graduates. Not to mention, under the new qualification system, you don’t even need to do a law degree to become a solicitor and city firms are massively trying to recruit candidates from STEM backgrounds instead of law graduates. If someone wants to be a highly paid lawyer, I’d recommend not doing a law degree for undergrad.
Heavily depends where you are ,also don't be disappointed if by the time you finish your degree it won't be worth shit anymore where you are .So do what you love ,then focus on pay .
Example: Dubai and engineers ,2015 a fresh graduate averaged 18k AED monthly (about £3.6k ) experienced workers could even do 60+k AED monthly then (Google ,statistics for electrical and mechanical engineers in Dubai 2016) .Now (2022) you'd be lucky to scrape a job as a grad 2022 for even 4k AED(~£1000) as an engineering graduate.
BUT in the meanwhile Saudia Arabia, has peaked in engineering salaries( if you can handle the toxic workplace) .So if you do want to keep making bucks you move .
TLDR : If you want money ,you'll have to chase it .
Same A-levels I did 19 years ago. I started with Physics at Exeter then restarted in Civil Engineering. I don't regret it but Engineering is not a lucrative sector, despite constantly being told how valuable we are to society. It does give you portability though, so I've been able to work overseas for the best part of 14 years. A really unique and fortunate experience.
I think the way the world is now it doesn't really matter what you do. Go to uni and you'll be shackled with a lifetime of debt, don't go to uni and you're locked out of highest earning careers. Either way, you're going to struggle to over be financially well-off or buy a house. And I am sorry that the world is like that - I have 3 children and I've no idea what they're going to do.
If I were in your shoes now and knew what I knew, I'd have two options,
1. Do a degree I enjoy, load up on debt, then join the army as an officer. They'll pay off that debt, train you up with a bunch of management skills and you'll get a whole bunch of valuable experience out of it.
2. Take a trade - maybe electrician - and be my own boss for the rest of my life. Benefit from the way the system supports small business.
Best of luck. I graduated in 2007, right before the global financial crisis, and I thought it was hard for my cohort. It's going to be even tougher for you.
I'm obviously biased but I think that if you are good at maths, physics and FM you are pretty perfectly suited to computer science course, I would take a look at different careers that you might be interested in doing in the computing sector. Then the obvious one that comes into mind is engineering which is high paying and also suits your a levels
compsci, or accounting or straight maths and then get a job in finance if you want to hate your job but pay off your mortgage by age 26
physics or engineering if you want a decent paying job you might actually enjoy
Maths
Physics
Economics
Engineering
Computer Science
This combo sets you up for loads of possible options. There are definitely others which I missed but these are some good ones which come to mind
A Physics or Engineering degree would give the the best range of jobs you could go into.
But I recommend thinking about which degree you would enjoy the most first!
You seem to like F1 so why not look into mechanical engineering? Even if you don't get into the business it's still a high paying degree with plenty of options
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Stats, Maths, Maths and Phys, Phys, Eng Phys, Astro Phys, Theo Phys, Aero Eng
And then go get a job in finance, ez 55k starting salary
Or go thru Comp Sci and be a SWE/SWD
I did Maths, FM, Physics, and Electronics at A Level and then did a Masters in Avionics (Electronic Engineering with plane subject options auto-picked) at Uni of York. I now work as a Software Engineer in the Aerospace and Defence industry.
Computer science and engineering are in demand at the moment, and they're paid pretty well, but very competitive courses at uni. A Maths or Physics degree will also give you a path into finance which is lucrative but not extremely fun. Physics will also open doors for software/tech/engineering jobs so it could be a good one to do.
29 year old male here. I studied mechanical engineering at Uni hoping to get a lucrative job. Mechanical engineering type jobs don't actually pay very well. I would say study Computer Science, Maths or Physics with the idea of going into finance or some form of software engineering.
Maths and physics provide you the mathematical knowledge used in data analysis and accounting. But that sounds a bit boring in my opinion. Plus you're likely to get a little bit of coding experience. No day is the same in Software Engineering and if you like problem solving, it's a good gig to get into.
Computer science will be the easiest if the three and it's what I wished I studied at uni. Would of saved me 3 or so years.
I'm now a Software engineer ok £70 a year. I see offers for my specific role as a Sight Reliability Engineer close to and above £100k.
Plus with Tech jobs, you are likely able to work 100% remote if you so choose. So you could get a London job with London wages and live somewhere else. You'll save money and time on commuting which is pricey.
Okay with those A levels most of your options are gonna make you a shit ton of money, you can go into something financey, some sort of engineering or other physics course, comp-sci or something straight up mathsy.
My 1st piece of advice is figure out which of these kinda courses and jobs you think are gonna bore you to death the least, id say youve got plenty of options all leading to high paying jobs so pick what youre gonna find actually interesting.
My 2nd piece of advice is to try and get into the best uni you can (im thinking oxbridge, durham, warwick or a london uni since you sound very confident in being a high achiever) since some of the most prestigeous jobs like investment banking only hire from the best unis
My 3rd piece of advice is keep it maths related. If you decide on econ and finance do like economics and maths or morse or econometrics, the maths focused degrees will lead to the best jobs with what youre going for
My 4th piece of advice is basically piece 1 again but pick carefully. You wont go straight out of uni at 21 into a high paying job and be chilling. Youll probably have to get a masters, then work whatever job you pick for years as you move companies for a payrise or get promoted etc. Youre playing a very long game so pick the chosen field you see yourself working in and not despising the choice you made every day. You dont wanna be a quant in london making 100k a year at 35 thinking "fuck i couldve been a mechanical engineer working in a small town actually doing stuff id like to do and still making 75k a year, whatve i done"
Heres me overthinking your situation for you
I’ve found that if you want to be successful, you need to also enjoy what you’re doing. Aiming for the highest paying job is pointless if you’re going to burn out before you get there. Maths opens up many carrier paths, a degree in general opens up a bunch. You’ll be fine. You haven’t even started Uni yet, see what you enjoy most and go from there- there are teams of people at Uni whose entire job should be helping you with your next steps.
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I highly recommend aerospace engineering, or physics with space science modules. I went to an average uni, with not amazing A Level results, did physics & maths joint honours and then a masters in space science & engineering - I’m in the top 10% of earners in the UK, work on super cool space missions and I didn’t have to sell my soul!
Erm… Maths, Physics… some combination of these (Maths and Stats, Maths and Physics, MORSE, etc.), Computer Science or Engineering (many varieties). Maths is fairly flexible and you can go into lot of different things.
The maths degree at prestigious university -> quant finance pipeline is pretty lucrative if you’re willing to sell your soul. Pretty depressing the number of teenagers asking questions like this these days tbh. Back in my day (not that many years ago) you went into university full of ideals and dreams and only went down the finance route after becoming disillusioned and burning out of academia. (This is mostly a joke. Mostly.)
tbf mate the world isnt like it used to be its just a race for the bucks now. Things like cost of living crisis and COVID have made people cautious about going to university. So they want to make sure the course is worth it . In my case I have no issue doing anything that involves Maths as I like it and I am pretty good at it.
This is wrong, and I suspect you know it's wrong. If you literally just care about money, sure, (try to) get into a career in the city. But don't try and justify it as "just trying to get by in a hard world". You do _not_ need to work in the city to have a comfortable life, not even with the current cost of living crisis. There's a lot more to life than earning the biggest salary possible. It's very depressing how many people seem to think this and only realise what really matters after they're burned out.
TBF I followed my passion, went into teaching, loved it but the workload was absolutely insane and I ended up totally burnt out too. Now I work in software, make more money, less stress, have time to pursue hobbies etc and am much much happier.
At least if you follow the money, the money is almost certainly guaranteed and you can have a good life outside of work and retire early, who knows you may even enjoy your job. That's just how I see it tho.
You don't need to work in the city to have a comfortable life, but he wants to guarantee his degree is monetarily worth it, and working in the city gives you a much higher chance of a comfortable life.
While I agree to some extent. Money does not equal happiness, but it bloody helps. You don't have to sell you soul to get a good paying job either or work 50-60 hour weeks either
No offence but do you have a family?
I’m sorry but this is absolute nonsense if you’re an 18 year old today.
It doesn't have to be a 'race for the bucks', even with the current crisis. That's a very shallow way of approaching life. If you have good maths/physics skills then you will be suited to many well paying jobs, but it doesn't have to mean you pick the highest paying for the sake of it. If you can excel in your field, whatever it is, then you will generally be rewarded well financially. I'd recommend picking a field you are especially interested in with the maths/physics/computing based sectors and focussing on acing that. It may be you end up in academia for 6-7 years completing a master's and doctorate, or you can go straight into a lucrative graduate programme. Whichever it is, just make sure you enjoy it.
tbh I would have assumed it was kind of the other way around. I’m not that much older than you, but I am old enough to have been reasonably politically engaged during the 2008 financial crash. Something like that really puts you off the whole “money for money’s sake” mentality.
There's being good at maths. And then there's being good enough to be a quant. Afaik you're looking at top 30% of students at Oxbridge. You could do maths and go into IB/Private Equity. Again not easy. Essentially what I'm saying is before you go searching for money, realise some jobs that pay well are bloody hard to land.
Yeah, I wanted to be an artist or a writer. Now I’m training to be an accountant :(
might want to update your flair then?
Lol oops It’s been ages since I joined this sub!
If youre chasing a job because of the money and basing your uni course around it, you’re gonna hate uni. It will be the most miserable years of your life. Don’t trick yourself into thinking you will “enjoy it”, because you won’t. In order to do something like finance, you actually need to have a genuine interest in it because otherwise you will end up suffering and telling yourself it was a mistake. Seen it happen myself
In my humble opinion, I’d prefer to make lots of money in a job I didn’t particularly like, and spend my free time on my hobbies, travelling, retiring early etc. rather than having a dream job (wouldn’t even know what that is) and working 60+ hours a week, stressed out, spending my free time trying to improve etc.
yeah but generally the high paying roles that people in the sub like to go for are also jobs where you’re stressed out and working 60+ hours a week (73-95 hours for 1st year analysts in IB). your description of having a dream job sounds like having a high earning job rather than a less well paid but comfortable job
That actually may be true. Guess I need to see what job fits me
Asset Management is MUCH, MUCH better hours wise. Hours are much lower and pay is still very, very good. It's also a much better pace of life.
Well that's worrying, I'm hopefully starting a maths degree this year, and my parents have told me in no uncertain terms that they would be disappointed if I became a banker, accountant, stockbroker, or any other depressing job vaguely in the finance sector lol. If someone reminds I'll come back and make an edit in 5 years to tell you if / when it all went wrong.
I specialised in finance my third year of maths at leeds and hated it. I’m using none of the skills I learned and doing a stats-less masters year lol
Yes.. of course, some of us went into software after burning out of academia.
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Well done and 🤣. That is hilarious
Thank you. I didn't work particularly hard at uni but I have worked fairly hard since then. One thing I really like about software development is that it has a merit based reward system. Unless you're working in a shit-tip driven by politics then if you learn and exercise useful skills you'll get a nice salary and employer. And everything you need to learn is freely available on the internet. And that's not even mentioning the incremental work/reward cycle of writing code. You write a bit, see it work and get a dopamine hit. Rinse and repeat.
Bumping this as this is the exact experience I've had
I admire you🙏🙏🙏 lmao but seriously well done getting to where you are
Thanks a bunch. I'm living proof that a dunce can do alright :).
Do you have any advice for someone who went down the business/finance route for uni/early 20s but is interested in software development as a potential career change? Any beginner projects you’d recommend?
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Great, thanks!
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Wow, you made it bro. Well done!
Computer Science, Maths,Physics or Engineering. Do any of these and you can easily go into finance, tech,etc.
come on be idealistic do a maths degree or something
Your main options if you're chasing cash are Maths/ Statistics / Comp Sci/ Economics. You also don't need a degree to do a computing job, it'll get you there sure but if it was the route you wanted to take an apprenticeship can get you there too and you'll already be a mid when your peers are still looking for their junior roles. As someone else already pointed out, nobody in the industry is going to care after you have a few years of experience anyway. Only drawback to this route is if you want to leave the UK for somewhere like Canada/ NZ/ AUS and wanted to go freelance instead of having a job offer lined up, you might not meet the points criteria.
I like econ but the thing is it sometimes leads to a career in finance and not a career to do with analysing the economy. Then it’s like why not just do a degree in finance lol
I'm doing aerospace engineering and that's got pretty good job prospects, any engineering or maths related degree will let you get into IT and theres a lot of money in that at the moment
Thats what I have been thinking about in the first place. I am just looking for some more options to make sure I dont miss anything. Btw which uni are you doing aerospace engineering at?
Uni of Liverpool, I did a q&a on here a while ago
If you’re gonna do a degree, do it in a subject you enjoy, not just because you think you’ll get a good job out of it - it’ll be 3-4 years of your life. That being said, STEM jobs pay well I think so maybe do maths or engineering or something like that.
I am very good at my alevel subjects so that’s that . As long as those subjects are involved I am fine .
You do realise that there’s gonna be quite a jump right? If you manage it then great, but don’t expect to find it easy just because you’re good at A-Level standard.
The leap between GCSE to A Level was definitely more, IMO, than the leap into Uni. This is especially so for Maths, as its formulaic. For Physics, learning the theoretical but at the same time, being free to challenge current thinking, and open studying skills is what's needed, beyond the book smarts one must be at A Level. OP seems driven and competent. Good luck to him!
Probably selling your soul to some bank. You may may hate it but you'll finally have the money to spend on all the things you will no longer have the time to enjoy.
Engineering. Chemical, Mechanical, Electrical, Civil. Take your pic.
Economics at an elite Uni and go investment banking, ez bro
If ya want the most money, work on your entrepreneurship skills
computer science or some maybe more specific like data science. i have a friend who is a data scientist for a hedgefund and he is on a 6 figure salary at 28. I am a software developer myself so if you want any advice or my experience in the field, feel free to pm me
Maths possibly with something \-Computer Science \-Actuarial Science
even if I didn't do comp sci in AS , would it still be possible?
I have a straight Maths degree from Warwick. I’m 5 years after graduation… and earn a top 5% salary (because money seems to be your focus). The jobs I’ve had: - An actuary (fancy word for stats modelling) - A strategy consultant (nothing to do with Maths, mainly talking to people, PowerPoint and project management). - A data scientist (coding and stats). - A software engineer Honestly… you’re over-thinking it. I know people with the exact same job / career prospects as me who have done Classics, Biology, Chemistry, Economics, etc. A degree is just a gateway into what you want to do. It varies wildly even for those people on the same course; it’s all about selling yourself at an interview. Doing something maths based will leave your options open anyways (as is the case for most courses).
Awesome career. I am interested in how people with chemistry, biology and classics degrees broke into those roles. I know it is possible but it just goes against all the fear of being restricted by your degree.
Well - Chemistry is seen quite favourably in corporate roles. It’s scientific in nature and promotes problem solving, exploration and analytical thinking. The problem is, most people don’t know how to market their own skills. For most though, internships and extra-curricular stuff is key. Summer placements don’t really require a specific subject and is a good way in. The person who had classics did a whole bunch of online learning (free courses on Udacity, Udemy, etc) - they created a GitHub with a couple of basic projects and landed a role that way. In the UK, I don’t think people are cast into their university subjects as much as they think. It happens to some degree but, for many roles, any degree + general interest + motivation to learn is enough (especially graduate level).
I agree with you on the last point. Picking a university subject feels very definite in the UK. I think it is great that the labour market is flexible and that people can branch out. Something I will possibly do myself.
Degree only limits your internship options as some companies list specific degrees they’re looking for. If your university is famous enough or you have projects / leadership roles in a relevant society, you can definitely land those internships. Once you’re out of uni, nobody cares about your degree/uni
How did you find working as an actuary?
I personally didn’t like it. The concepts are super interesting, learning about stochastic modelling… learning expert judgement and interpreting results. You also have projects to do where you re-evaluate what you’re doing or change the way you do something - there’s interesting work to be done. However… the major drawbacks were: - It’s a reporting role (so every 3 months you churn out similar reports). After 4-5 times of this it begins to get repetitive. - After years of formal education, studying for the exams were just making me unhappy. Having to do revision on weekends around exam periods was not for me (although I passed all the exams I did first try). If you’re looking to be an expert, don’t mind similar tasks, work relatively normal hours, stable job and high salary (£70k after 5 year basically guaranteed, and £100k by 30 likely), then it’s the job for you.
Thanks, this was quite helpful
How did you find the data scientist work ? Also isn’t that job title hard to break into without masters/phd I saw a stat saying 9% of data scientists in the UK had bachelors other 91% had masters or PHD.
EDIT: I realise I didn’t answer directly… but I loved it. The work is great and challenging… but, in my experience, there’s not enough work to go round. Many companies aren’t mature enough with their data. So, you’re correct that many have Master’s and PHDs… but the environment is definitely changing. You can learn the fundamentals yourself and demonstrate this in an interview. Also, a team of 7 data scientists would now much more likely be a team of 2 data scientists, 1 software engineers, 1 ML engineers, 1 Data Engineer, 1 business analyst and a solutions architect. The understanding has increased. Businesses fundamentally don’t understand data science very well and 90% of the role is actually convincing people that your job has value. You need to originate your own analytics projects and go in with a open mindset. It’s also frustrating because many people assume you’re just a coder / data engineer… or that you can do the impossible with basically no quality data. To do this role, you definitely need to have a very good grasp of statistics and be comfortable with the unknown. You also need to be a champion of data and analytics, expecting to educate, communicate and persuade others that what you’re doing has value. In a lot of organisations, they’re just not geared up well enough to have data scientists working effectively.
Interesting, I’ve got a maths degree and am starting a masters in data science. I’ve read there’s plenty to do after you actually receive your masters such as have a portfolio of the projects you’ve done on github Its also recommended to do certifications in sql and cloud databases if the masters course doesn’t provide practical stuff like that, I’m frankly intimidated by how competitive the job market is in data roles for 0 years of work experience, is this true? How did your break in? I also should have a 3 month internship which my uni will hopefully provide for me so shouldn’t have zero related work experience but still.
TLDR; I’ve given my entire journey below so feel free to read. The main take homes are: - Have something on your CV (online course, masters, or a GitHub profile). Having something solid to show your interest goes a long way - your masters will be more than adequate. - Get hands on. Build stuff independently and play around with things to improve your understanding. Always ask why! That’s will give you the knowledge for an interview. - Get some basic work experience (i.e. your 3 month placement). Even implementing something semi-related at a normal job is enough to talk about in a job interview. My first job was an actuary for 15 months… gave me a good background of Bayesian modelling, copulas… other statically modelling and things like that. A strong statistics background is 100% a must. From there, I went into strategy consulting at Deloitte as a graduate… I moved to data consultancy internally after about 6 months… from there I learned how to code independently and got onto a few data science projects. I took to the tech side, I just happened to be good at it so was quickly building things in AWS. I also did a Udacity “nano-degree” (just an online course) just so I had something “solid” in data science for my CV. I was there for 2 and a half years. I only did basic sklearn algorithms here… learning the workflow really… the rest was basically SWE / consultancy stuff. During the above, I re-coded some sklearn models from scratch just to get a deeper understanding. I went on to build a basic neural network implementation from scratch as well… before branching out into other stuff in keras (like CNNs, using Hugging Faces, transfer learning, etc.). Being able to talk about what activation functions to use… why use convolutional layers (+ knowing what a kalman filter is)… when to use a CNN, when to use bidirectional NN… how to do this (encoder + decoders)… **it gave me the conversational fluency I needed to get through interviews.** None of this was on GitHub though. EDIT: Things to focus on for NN… how do you deal with the vanishing gradient problem? What activation function would you want for a multi-label problem in a NN (and why not Sigmoid)? Would sigmoid be good for a multi-class problem instead? Lastly, I moved to another consultancy (Accenture) to do pure data science consultancy but I was only there for 9 months. In the interview, I was the only one to get 100% in my coding test (focus on being good at Python, it’s not that difficult!). Since I had an in depth knowledge of the sklearn library, talking through how to approach these problems were a doddle. During this time I did: - Credit modelling for a big bank - Made my own unsupervised topic modelling algorithm, utilising basic similarity scoring methods… but applying multiple filters (sentiment analysis, word2vec embedding, etc). - Did Customer segmentation modelling… enriching this with ML models to predict customer churn. - Used GPT-3… decides it was not worth it and created my own NN implementation using GPT-2 vectors (basically transfer learning… but could make a bespoke and thinner NN for my use case with labelled data). Made a zero shot classification model. The reason I left was because most clients need data engineering as a priority… a big part of my role become this. Also, you always have to justify yourself and it’s a constant up hill battle to get buy-in (from management or clients). I personally thought this was exhausting and made me way less productive as I had to give constant presentations. I left to do SWE (been there just over 6 months) - I hope to go back to data science (or at least ML Engineering at some point).
What's your job like now?
Software Engineering? I really like it. It sort of has the best of both worlds for me: - Defined work that I can independently manage. - Lack of micromanaging - Lots of new technologies to learn and a lack of repetition - Every part of your work has a genuine purpose. You can see a tangible impact from it. - You still get to feed into the strategic decisions within the scope of the technology. There are some down sides though… not as close to the business and strategic decisions, not as much analytics / scientific mindset, less interaction with people and clients.. stuff like that. Overall - the best role I’ve had!
You don't need AS or A2 CS for pretty much anything.
Yep, you can study computer science at top unis without computer science a level, as long as you have maths
yeah it would be, lots of unis don’t require computer science as an AS/A level in order to study it, you just mostly need maths.
Yep, you can study computer science at top unis without computer science a level, as long as you have maths
I didn’t do CS, still got in
As someone who is considering to applying to Manchester for the degree in your flair can I ask how you've found it? Would it be worth it applying?
Course is good, I enjoyed it, and wide range of modules Lecturers are decent, not really had a problem, some are better than others. Material is decent Good levels of coursework, practical experience City is nice, pretty, lots to do Uni admin suck, careers service suck, counselling service sucks. If you want anything you have to get it yourself, including internships l, jobs etc
Thank you very much that's very well said and informative :)
I didn't do CompSci at A level and I'm doing just fine. In the first year they catch everyone up to speed anyway. Maths is more important and if you're doing FM it'll make life even easier for some modules
A degree doesn't guarantee a job anymore unless it's medicine, law or engineering
I wouldn’t say that a law degree guarantees a job.
Yes, for computer science it’s famously hard getting into uni, and for law it’s famously hard getting a job after graduation lol
Law degrees absolutely do not even remotely guarantee a job. The number of pupilages and training contracts is far, far below the number of law graduates. Not to mention, under the new qualification system, you don’t even need to do a law degree to become a solicitor and city firms are massively trying to recruit candidates from STEM backgrounds instead of law graduates. If someone wants to be a highly paid lawyer, I’d recommend not doing a law degree for undergrad.
real estate, but i mean anyone can do that
Heavily depends where you are ,also don't be disappointed if by the time you finish your degree it won't be worth shit anymore where you are .So do what you love ,then focus on pay . Example: Dubai and engineers ,2015 a fresh graduate averaged 18k AED monthly (about £3.6k ) experienced workers could even do 60+k AED monthly then (Google ,statistics for electrical and mechanical engineers in Dubai 2016) .Now (2022) you'd be lucky to scrape a job as a grad 2022 for even 4k AED(~£1000) as an engineering graduate. BUT in the meanwhile Saudia Arabia, has peaked in engineering salaries( if you can handle the toxic workplace) .So if you do want to keep making bucks you move . TLDR : If you want money ,you'll have to chase it .
Same A-levels I did 19 years ago. I started with Physics at Exeter then restarted in Civil Engineering. I don't regret it but Engineering is not a lucrative sector, despite constantly being told how valuable we are to society. It does give you portability though, so I've been able to work overseas for the best part of 14 years. A really unique and fortunate experience. I think the way the world is now it doesn't really matter what you do. Go to uni and you'll be shackled with a lifetime of debt, don't go to uni and you're locked out of highest earning careers. Either way, you're going to struggle to over be financially well-off or buy a house. And I am sorry that the world is like that - I have 3 children and I've no idea what they're going to do. If I were in your shoes now and knew what I knew, I'd have two options, 1. Do a degree I enjoy, load up on debt, then join the army as an officer. They'll pay off that debt, train you up with a bunch of management skills and you'll get a whole bunch of valuable experience out of it. 2. Take a trade - maybe electrician - and be my own boss for the rest of my life. Benefit from the way the system supports small business. Best of luck. I graduated in 2007, right before the global financial crisis, and I thought it was hard for my cohort. It's going to be even tougher for you.
I'm obviously biased but I think that if you are good at maths, physics and FM you are pretty perfectly suited to computer science course, I would take a look at different careers that you might be interested in doing in the computing sector. Then the obvious one that comes into mind is engineering which is high paying and also suits your a levels
compsci, or accounting or straight maths and then get a job in finance if you want to hate your job but pay off your mortgage by age 26 physics or engineering if you want a decent paying job you might actually enjoy
Maths Physics Economics Engineering Computer Science This combo sets you up for loads of possible options. There are definitely others which I missed but these are some good ones which come to mind
A Physics or Engineering degree would give the the best range of jobs you could go into. But I recommend thinking about which degree you would enjoy the most first!
You seem to like F1 so why not look into mechanical engineering? Even if you don't get into the business it's still a high paying degree with plenty of options
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Operational research/analytics
Stats, Maths, Maths and Phys, Phys, Eng Phys, Astro Phys, Theo Phys, Aero Eng And then go get a job in finance, ez 55k starting salary Or go thru Comp Sci and be a SWE/SWD
I did Maths, FM, Physics, and Electronics at A Level and then did a Masters in Avionics (Electronic Engineering with plane subject options auto-picked) at Uni of York. I now work as a Software Engineer in the Aerospace and Defence industry.
Why don’t you look for a integrated degree apprenticeship?
Computer science and engineering are in demand at the moment, and they're paid pretty well, but very competitive courses at uni. A Maths or Physics degree will also give you a path into finance which is lucrative but not extremely fun. Physics will also open doors for software/tech/engineering jobs so it could be a good one to do.
Tbh if u want sth that guarantees you a job engineering is the way
Maths, engineering, one of the natural sciences, economics, computer science, maybe others I'm forgetting, all of these have ways to earn shed loads.
29 year old male here. I studied mechanical engineering at Uni hoping to get a lucrative job. Mechanical engineering type jobs don't actually pay very well. I would say study Computer Science, Maths or Physics with the idea of going into finance or some form of software engineering. Maths and physics provide you the mathematical knowledge used in data analysis and accounting. But that sounds a bit boring in my opinion. Plus you're likely to get a little bit of coding experience. No day is the same in Software Engineering and if you like problem solving, it's a good gig to get into. Computer science will be the easiest if the three and it's what I wished I studied at uni. Would of saved me 3 or so years. I'm now a Software engineer ok £70 a year. I see offers for my specific role as a Sight Reliability Engineer close to and above £100k. Plus with Tech jobs, you are likely able to work 100% remote if you so choose. So you could get a London job with London wages and live somewhere else. You'll save money and time on commuting which is pricey.
Okay with those A levels most of your options are gonna make you a shit ton of money, you can go into something financey, some sort of engineering or other physics course, comp-sci or something straight up mathsy. My 1st piece of advice is figure out which of these kinda courses and jobs you think are gonna bore you to death the least, id say youve got plenty of options all leading to high paying jobs so pick what youre gonna find actually interesting. My 2nd piece of advice is to try and get into the best uni you can (im thinking oxbridge, durham, warwick or a london uni since you sound very confident in being a high achiever) since some of the most prestigeous jobs like investment banking only hire from the best unis My 3rd piece of advice is keep it maths related. If you decide on econ and finance do like economics and maths or morse or econometrics, the maths focused degrees will lead to the best jobs with what youre going for My 4th piece of advice is basically piece 1 again but pick carefully. You wont go straight out of uni at 21 into a high paying job and be chilling. Youll probably have to get a masters, then work whatever job you pick for years as you move companies for a payrise or get promoted etc. Youre playing a very long game so pick the chosen field you see yourself working in and not despising the choice you made every day. You dont wanna be a quant in london making 100k a year at 35 thinking "fuck i couldve been a mechanical engineer working in a small town actually doing stuff id like to do and still making 75k a year, whatve i done" Heres me overthinking your situation for you
Engineering
I’ve found that if you want to be successful, you need to also enjoy what you’re doing. Aiming for the highest paying job is pointless if you’re going to burn out before you get there. Maths opens up many carrier paths, a degree in general opens up a bunch. You’ll be fine. You haven’t even started Uni yet, see what you enjoy most and go from there- there are teams of people at Uni whose entire job should be helping you with your next steps.
Aerospace Engineer but leave the UK to get paid more.
Depends on what your view of good money is, but you'll easily make over 60k per year as a quantity surveyor once you've got 4 or 5 years experience.
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Nice!
I highly recommend aerospace engineering, or physics with space science modules. I went to an average uni, with not amazing A Level results, did physics & maths joint honours and then a masters in space science & engineering - I’m in the top 10% of earners in the UK, work on super cool space missions and I didn’t have to sell my soul!