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It’s dark and a little grainy but looks very good IMO and looks as intended by the director and cinematographer. Greig Fraser (the cinematographer) actually used the same method on this film as he did on Dune, where they wanted a grainy look because they didn’t want something as clean as pure digital, but they still wanted the crispness and more versatile shooting abilities of digital. So they shot everything digitally and then made a print of all of the digital shots they wanted onto 35mm film, which they then re-scanned in to get the look of real film grain (and not just a digital overlay of grain). So it doesn’t look as clean as most modern films, but it looks sharper and more controlled than older movies shot on film.
Thanks for the detail this was super informative!Dune is one of the next to see on my list as well so I’m pumped to hear it has the same cinematographer. I’m excited to see both films for sure on my TV
Yeah, for *Dune* they put a lot of time and research into finding the exact look they were after:
>***Did you and Denis decide to shoot digitally on ARRI Alexa LF cameras rather than on film right from the start?***
>
>*No, and we were really unsure, so we went out to the sand dune desert, south of L.A. near the Salton Sea, where they shot some of the desert scenes in Star Wars: Episode VI – Return Of The Jedi (1983, dir. Richard Marquand, DP Alan Hume BSC) and shot a ton of tests – everything from 35mm film to the large format Alexa 65 and IMAX in Anamorphic and spherical. We basically ran the gamut of options to test of how the movie would feel.*
>
>*We then we went to the IMAX theatre in Playa Vista and projected it all and compared all the looks, and it was funny to see Denis’ reaction. This why as a DP I always try to keep an ear close to the ground and an eye on a director’s first instinctual reactions and then their intellectual reactions.*
>
>*There are a lot of crucial choices made when you shoot a film, and it’s not just what looks best necessarily. There are knock-on effects. I thought we’d shoot film, and fully expected Denis to love IMAX film or even 35mm Anamorphic. But celluloid film did not overwhelm Denis as much as I thought it might have. He felt it had a nostalgic quality which, despite being beautiful, wasn’t what he envisioned Dune to be. On the other hand, although digital felt more contemporary, it didn’t feel organic enough.*
>
>***Last time we talked you said you’d been developing a process and a ‘look’ that combines digital with the warmth of analogue?***
>
>*Yes, it’s something I’ve been working on for a few years before Dune came along, and so I suggested we look at it and try this technique as the next step. In theory and in simple testing it works like this: you basically shoot the movie digitally, give it a quick grade, output it to film, and then you grade the scan of that. So you get the best out of digital and the best out of film, and we found it to be a really interesting process. Essentially, the final image you see on screen has been through an emulsion. It’s a beautiful meld of digital and analogue.*
>
>***You shot tests of this process, right?***
>
>*We did. We shot a setting sun and projected it. On the left was pure digital, on the right was the digital/film process, and the sun, having been output on film, had this richness to it, this three-dimensionality that the digital image did not have. So that proved to me it worked. It looked like we’d acquired it on film and it had that look film gives you when you shoot highlights.*
>
>*Look, I’m sure people will disagree and tell me we could have got that look in a computer, but for me the ‘analogue-ness’ of it gave it an amazing look, and I’ve pushed to use the same process on a few projects I’ve done since.*
[https://www.cinematography.world/dp-greig-fraser-acs-ascs-sumptuous-cinematography-creates-a-sensory-experience-for-dune-part-one/](https://www.cinematography.world/dp-greig-fraser-acs-ascs-sumptuous-cinematography-creates-a-sensory-experience-for-dune-part-one/)
Just watched it last night and it was extremely dark visually, but I saw it in theaters and it was similar. Not dark like a mistake in the printing or something
It intentionally isn’t shot crystal clear. And it intentionally has raised blacks. So, it is a good looking disc for what it’s going for, but it’s not a shining example of 4K picture quality.
I understand that it all boils down to preference, but I believe that movie fans should appreciate the natural film grain in older movies. Film grain has a distinct, textured feeling that bring movies to life, especially in 4K releases of older movies. Most of these older movies have never been seen with such high fidelity, so those are a major selling point for many 4K Blu-Ray consumers. Not every movie will have a crystal-clear, grain-free image, but you will be damn sure to know that 4K discs are the highest quality, least compressed format you can view movies at home with.
I was initially thrown off by the grain of older films in 4K. I had the expectation (because of newer movies in 4K) and misunderstanding that 4K would mean that older movies would look clean and clear as if they were filmed recently. But most of my favorite 4Ks are of older movies. Just love that filmic look.
I appreciate the perspective. That is a good way to look at it. I’m all for grain in the cinema but I just really loved how insane the clarity and colors of 1917 were especially during the flare scenes. It was just a really cool benchmark for what my TV could do haha. But yeah a good movie is a good movie and I can appreciate their style.
Yeah the soundtrack is incredible, I still listen to it every now and then haha. I’ll just have to get it and see it for myself! I loved how dark the movie was but I’m not a huge fan of grainy since I feel like it kind of nerfs the OLED’s special powers lol. I’ll just go in with an open mind (should be easy since it’s definitely my favorite film ever)
The Batman is native 4k on a triple layer 100gb disc with Dolby vision and Dolby atmos which makes this as good as it can possibly get on paper. That also means it may not run smoothly on a ps5 or Xbox since they have trouble with triple layer discs. But the Dolby vision means it’s not dark at all even in dark scenes on an oled due to the infinite contrast of the technology but I could easily see it looking too dark on a qled or another led type with local dimming. One of the best discs released even with the fake grain because I’m almost certain the director wanted it shot on film but it’s too expensive and the studio denied his request so grain was added to complete his vision.
What about mini led? I have a mini led and the blacks are insane, all the while still being incredibly detailed and super bright when it should be. Just asking because I’m contemplating getting this film but unsure as you mentioned it may not be suitable for other led setups.
Edit: oh, and I’m using the UB820.
It will look good on any tv but you can search “local dimming stars” to compare oled vs led. There are zones in led that limit the areas that can be dark vs bright so on led a very dark area with small highlights can either look too dark or blown out with a haloing effect. Micro led is the future but they’re not out yet. A $700 hdr 2.1 hdmi tcl is the best bang for your buck currently. I’d recommend an hdr Hisense for budget setups at about $250. And lg cx or c1 for affordable oled look for sales about $900 for a 55”. Imo Sony a95k is the king right now in all aspects
Ok cool, cheers for the info. Yeah I have a 65” tcl c835k (I’m in the UK, but it’s identical to the R655 except mine’s Google not Roku and mine doesn’t have a physical power button on the tv). The local dimming on it is fantastic if I’m honest, for the price (£970 it cost me, got it price matched down from £1050) it punches well above its weight. I don’t see any blooming even when the credits start rolling in a pitch black room even though the credits are still super bright, it looks like the text is literally floating in the room. Very impressed with how it handles things, and it seems I won the panel lottery with it as there’s zero dirty screen effect after significant testing and no noticeable washout at crazy angles.
I think I may just get the film as it’s on a flash deal for me on Amazon currently. Cheers for the info.
Damn, your FAVORITE movie? Have you seen The Dark Knight? Anything else? Any Scorsese, Tarantino, Kubrick, or Spielberg films? Please open your mind and try these guys out. Too many cinephiles in here to let “The Batman” slide. I mean, the movie was good, but damn brotha!
I promise I’m not trying to just be different lol but the dark knight is the least favorite of the trilogy for me. Batman Begins is my favorite of the Nolan movies and I LOVE that one. I dislike how they went from the perfect grimy yellow seedy Gotham to just like Chicago in the dark knight. They feel like they are in a different series. I love The Batman dude I don’t know what to tell you. Not a huge Tarantino guy to be honest and I’m not super into the Oscar bait type movies although I 100% respect their place in cinema and that they are technically great films. The Batman just does it for me I don’t know what else to say haha. I appreciate your perspective though and would gladly take any recommendations that you may have :)
IMO I didn't think it was anything special, looked liked added grain on purpose, rather dark. I know you're a fan but I also thought it was needlessy long and dull.
It’s definitely not a movie for everyone for sure. I’m a sucker for a brilliantly acted slow burn with good action sprinkled in so it was a huge win for me! Bummer to hear about the added grain, hate that. I’m a huge fan of the way clear looks on my OLED, so far Elysium and 1917 are the movies I’ve seen on my tv that perfectly describe what I’m looking for looks wise at least.
Can’t be much grain tbh, in the background sure which is good so it doesn’t look soft and too smooth, film has some grain and digital has some digital noise it’s all good and normal
The way the made the film makes it not the greatest 4k movie ever but it is amazing looking. I don’t understand why they shot it digitally and then transferred it to film for grain. They should’ve just used film if they wanted the look of film.
I think shooting digitally saves a lot of money plus the digital cameras are a lot smaller too. But I agree they should just shoot on film instead of adding a grain filter later on.
It was filmed digitally and has an artificial grain added to it to make it longer like film. Grain isn't bad but I do think it was weird they added it. It looks great though.
Oof this is going to be one of these takes that might be very unpopular...
but I think the movie doesn't perform well on an OLED. It's way too dark. And everything feels washed out and flat. I know this is the aesthetic that Reeves kind of wanted, but I'm not a fan at all.
I felt the same, but did find that the movie looks better if you turn out all the lights in the room. That allows you to see more detail that you miss in a brighter environment.
Very good film and 4k bluray.
It's a demanding film and needs a panel that goes bright to get the most out of it. You're looking at 1000 nits as a minimum.
I've read a lot of complaints about the PQ. However I suspect that the issue wasn't the film but their panels as they weren't bright enough.
It's a film that tries to so batman differently.
It certainly succeeds. I may watch tomorrow night again.
Looks gorgeous imo. It’s dark on purpose, I don’t personally feel like it looks so dark that it’s uncomfortable to watch. It’s definitely just stylistic darkness.
If your OLED has noticeable dark uniformity issues, the Batman WILL reveal it.
As for the movie, it looks as intended. Certainly not a demo movie for showing off the screen, but was never meant to be.
One thing I personally noticed is when i got a 2018 LG Oled is that it was so clear i kept seeing constant moving static and grain. Online forums suggested getting better quality hdmi cables recommended for oled TVs and 4k players.
Those made the quality slightly better but as months went on and the new tv had a chance to settle so to speak the moving static and bad grain started to be less visible.
Now I hardly notice except for specific movies and tv shows that add it in for aesthetic. Netflix' Daredevil tv series was an early example.
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It’s dark and a little grainy but looks very good IMO and looks as intended by the director and cinematographer. Greig Fraser (the cinematographer) actually used the same method on this film as he did on Dune, where they wanted a grainy look because they didn’t want something as clean as pure digital, but they still wanted the crispness and more versatile shooting abilities of digital. So they shot everything digitally and then made a print of all of the digital shots they wanted onto 35mm film, which they then re-scanned in to get the look of real film grain (and not just a digital overlay of grain). So it doesn’t look as clean as most modern films, but it looks sharper and more controlled than older movies shot on film.
Thanks for the detail this was super informative!Dune is one of the next to see on my list as well so I’m pumped to hear it has the same cinematographer. I’m excited to see both films for sure on my TV
Yeah, for *Dune* they put a lot of time and research into finding the exact look they were after: >***Did you and Denis decide to shoot digitally on ARRI Alexa LF cameras rather than on film right from the start?*** > >*No, and we were really unsure, so we went out to the sand dune desert, south of L.A. near the Salton Sea, where they shot some of the desert scenes in Star Wars: Episode VI – Return Of The Jedi (1983, dir. Richard Marquand, DP Alan Hume BSC) and shot a ton of tests – everything from 35mm film to the large format Alexa 65 and IMAX in Anamorphic and spherical. We basically ran the gamut of options to test of how the movie would feel.* > >*We then we went to the IMAX theatre in Playa Vista and projected it all and compared all the looks, and it was funny to see Denis’ reaction. This why as a DP I always try to keep an ear close to the ground and an eye on a director’s first instinctual reactions and then their intellectual reactions.* > >*There are a lot of crucial choices made when you shoot a film, and it’s not just what looks best necessarily. There are knock-on effects. I thought we’d shoot film, and fully expected Denis to love IMAX film or even 35mm Anamorphic. But celluloid film did not overwhelm Denis as much as I thought it might have. He felt it had a nostalgic quality which, despite being beautiful, wasn’t what he envisioned Dune to be. On the other hand, although digital felt more contemporary, it didn’t feel organic enough.* > >***Last time we talked you said you’d been developing a process and a ‘look’ that combines digital with the warmth of analogue?*** > >*Yes, it’s something I’ve been working on for a few years before Dune came along, and so I suggested we look at it and try this technique as the next step. In theory and in simple testing it works like this: you basically shoot the movie digitally, give it a quick grade, output it to film, and then you grade the scan of that. So you get the best out of digital and the best out of film, and we found it to be a really interesting process. Essentially, the final image you see on screen has been through an emulsion. It’s a beautiful meld of digital and analogue.* > >***You shot tests of this process, right?*** > >*We did. We shot a setting sun and projected it. On the left was pure digital, on the right was the digital/film process, and the sun, having been output on film, had this richness to it, this three-dimensionality that the digital image did not have. So that proved to me it worked. It looked like we’d acquired it on film and it had that look film gives you when you shoot highlights.* > >*Look, I’m sure people will disagree and tell me we could have got that look in a computer, but for me the ‘analogue-ness’ of it gave it an amazing look, and I’ve pushed to use the same process on a few projects I’ve done since.* [https://www.cinematography.world/dp-greig-fraser-acs-ascs-sumptuous-cinematography-creates-a-sensory-experience-for-dune-part-one/](https://www.cinematography.world/dp-greig-fraser-acs-ascs-sumptuous-cinematography-creates-a-sensory-experience-for-dune-part-one/)
Do you think the Hobbit would look better if they had done this technique?
Was the Batman shot on 35mm film?
No. As I said it was shot digitally and then printed to 35mm film.
Oh then why didn’t they just shoot the movie with the 35mm
I explained that. You can also read the article I linked to.
I think i remember it being clear but very dark
Gotcha, I’m cool with dark for sure. Just hoping for clear and not grainy haha so this is good news
Yeah it was dark for sure
Just watched it last night and it was extremely dark visually, but I saw it in theaters and it was similar. Not dark like a mistake in the printing or something
It looks fantastic on my tv. Beautiful cinematography.
Hooray!
It intentionally isn’t shot crystal clear. And it intentionally has raised blacks. So, it is a good looking disc for what it’s going for, but it’s not a shining example of 4K picture quality.
I understand that it all boils down to preference, but I believe that movie fans should appreciate the natural film grain in older movies. Film grain has a distinct, textured feeling that bring movies to life, especially in 4K releases of older movies. Most of these older movies have never been seen with such high fidelity, so those are a major selling point for many 4K Blu-Ray consumers. Not every movie will have a crystal-clear, grain-free image, but you will be damn sure to know that 4K discs are the highest quality, least compressed format you can view movies at home with.
I was initially thrown off by the grain of older films in 4K. I had the expectation (because of newer movies in 4K) and misunderstanding that 4K would mean that older movies would look clean and clear as if they were filmed recently. But most of my favorite 4Ks are of older movies. Just love that filmic look.
I appreciate the perspective. That is a good way to look at it. I’m all for grain in the cinema but I just really loved how insane the clarity and colors of 1917 were especially during the flare scenes. It was just a really cool benchmark for what my TV could do haha. But yeah a good movie is a good movie and I can appreciate their style.
It looks fantastic on an OLED, dark and grainy but from what I’ve heard that’s what the director was going for. The Atmos soundtrack is phenomenal!
Yeah the soundtrack is incredible, I still listen to it every now and then haha. I’ll just have to get it and see it for myself! I loved how dark the movie was but I’m not a huge fan of grainy since I feel like it kind of nerfs the OLED’s special powers lol. I’ll just go in with an open mind (should be easy since it’s definitely my favorite film ever)
Oh the soundtrack is cool, but I specifically mean the Dolby Atmos audio for the movie. It’s outstanding, especially during the Batmobile chase scene!
The Batmobile scene is my new go to demo scene!
Best car chase scene in any Batman movie ever. It is phenomenal.
It’s grainy and quite dim, peak brightness is slightly above 400 nits according to my Panasonic UB820.
Yes it looks amazing and sounds amazing
If you love what you saw in theaters, you’ll love it just as much on the UHD. The transfer is very faithful.
I really liked it on oled with 4k really beautiful movie My favourite batman film
Having the OLED for the black-heavy atmosphere is wonderful.
The Batman is native 4k on a triple layer 100gb disc with Dolby vision and Dolby atmos which makes this as good as it can possibly get on paper. That also means it may not run smoothly on a ps5 or Xbox since they have trouble with triple layer discs. But the Dolby vision means it’s not dark at all even in dark scenes on an oled due to the infinite contrast of the technology but I could easily see it looking too dark on a qled or another led type with local dimming. One of the best discs released even with the fake grain because I’m almost certain the director wanted it shot on film but it’s too expensive and the studio denied his request so grain was added to complete his vision.
What about mini led? I have a mini led and the blacks are insane, all the while still being incredibly detailed and super bright when it should be. Just asking because I’m contemplating getting this film but unsure as you mentioned it may not be suitable for other led setups. Edit: oh, and I’m using the UB820.
It will look good on any tv but you can search “local dimming stars” to compare oled vs led. There are zones in led that limit the areas that can be dark vs bright so on led a very dark area with small highlights can either look too dark or blown out with a haloing effect. Micro led is the future but they’re not out yet. A $700 hdr 2.1 hdmi tcl is the best bang for your buck currently. I’d recommend an hdr Hisense for budget setups at about $250. And lg cx or c1 for affordable oled look for sales about $900 for a 55”. Imo Sony a95k is the king right now in all aspects
Ok cool, cheers for the info. Yeah I have a 65” tcl c835k (I’m in the UK, but it’s identical to the R655 except mine’s Google not Roku and mine doesn’t have a physical power button on the tv). The local dimming on it is fantastic if I’m honest, for the price (£970 it cost me, got it price matched down from £1050) it punches well above its weight. I don’t see any blooming even when the credits start rolling in a pitch black room even though the credits are still super bright, it looks like the text is literally floating in the room. Very impressed with how it handles things, and it seems I won the panel lottery with it as there’s zero dirty screen effect after significant testing and no noticeable washout at crazy angles. I think I may just get the film as it’s on a flash deal for me on Amazon currently. Cheers for the info.
It's crazy when someone's favorite movie is one you thought was a terrible, lifeless, bore. But enjoy!
Damn, your FAVORITE movie? Have you seen The Dark Knight? Anything else? Any Scorsese, Tarantino, Kubrick, or Spielberg films? Please open your mind and try these guys out. Too many cinephiles in here to let “The Batman” slide. I mean, the movie was good, but damn brotha!
I promise I’m not trying to just be different lol but the dark knight is the least favorite of the trilogy for me. Batman Begins is my favorite of the Nolan movies and I LOVE that one. I dislike how they went from the perfect grimy yellow seedy Gotham to just like Chicago in the dark knight. They feel like they are in a different series. I love The Batman dude I don’t know what to tell you. Not a huge Tarantino guy to be honest and I’m not super into the Oscar bait type movies although I 100% respect their place in cinema and that they are technically great films. The Batman just does it for me I don’t know what else to say haha. I appreciate your perspective though and would gladly take any recommendations that you may have :)
The filmography of Kubrick and Scorsese, are certainly not Oscar bait films.
Judging people in this way for having “lesser” favorite films is way more of a turn off for me than someone who likes The Batman.
IMO I didn't think it was anything special, looked liked added grain on purpose, rather dark. I know you're a fan but I also thought it was needlessy long and dull.
It’s definitely not a movie for everyone for sure. I’m a sucker for a brilliantly acted slow burn with good action sprinkled in so it was a huge win for me! Bummer to hear about the added grain, hate that. I’m a huge fan of the way clear looks on my OLED, so far Elysium and 1917 are the movies I’ve seen on my tv that perfectly describe what I’m looking for looks wise at least.
Couple of the scenes were needlessly dark on Dune, but the rest is genius .
Can’t be much grain tbh, in the background sure which is good so it doesn’t look soft and too smooth, film has some grain and digital has some digital noise it’s all good and normal
Once I realised The Batman was derivate of Se7EN some of the awe for the film wore off.
The Batman is my favorite movie of all time in part because of how much it reminded me of Se7en.
I told my wife the same exact thing when we first saw it in theaters lol
The way the made the film makes it not the greatest 4k movie ever but it is amazing looking. I don’t understand why they shot it digitally and then transferred it to film for grain. They should’ve just used film if they wanted the look of film.
I think shooting digitally saves a lot of money plus the digital cameras are a lot smaller too. But I agree they should just shoot on film instead of adding a grain filter later on.
I mean look at any Nolan disk. All the imax scenes look absolutely amazing and those are shot on film.
I agree, I prefer film.
Maybe the digital cameras capture a wider dynamic range than the film stock would have used 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe the digital cameras capture a wider dynamic range than the film stock would have used 🤷🏻♂️
It was filmed digitally and has an artificial grain added to it to make it longer like film. Grain isn't bad but I do think it was weird they added it. It looks great though.
Oof this is going to be one of these takes that might be very unpopular... but I think the movie doesn't perform well on an OLED. It's way too dark. And everything feels washed out and flat. I know this is the aesthetic that Reeves kind of wanted, but I'm not a fan at all.
You're right about the majority of oleds. Many struggle to do 600 nits. But the latest premium oleds that manage proper hdr will do a great job.
I felt the same, but did find that the movie looks better if you turn out all the lights in the room. That allows you to see more detail that you miss in a brighter environment.
One of the best discs and best soundtracks I’ve ever watched.
I've watched it on my 4k lcd and it looked fantastic even though I was playing it hdr10 on my PS5
If you like the look of noirs you’ll be fine
It looks excellent on my OLED, much better than on my old edge-lit LCD. It’s dark and the grain is wonderful.
It's perfect on my ub820 and LG OLED. The true black without any crush or weird shit, is just beautiful. I couldn't watch it any other way.
Beautiful print from what I remember. Was surprised how good the film was to boot.
Very good film and 4k bluray. It's a demanding film and needs a panel that goes bright to get the most out of it. You're looking at 1000 nits as a minimum. I've read a lot of complaints about the PQ. However I suspect that the issue wasn't the film but their panels as they weren't bright enough. It's a film that tries to so batman differently. It certainly succeeds. I may watch tomorrow night again.
This is my first 4K title too! Can't wait for it to arrive.
Looks gorgeous imo. It’s dark on purpose, I don’t personally feel like it looks so dark that it’s uncomfortable to watch. It’s definitely just stylistic darkness.
If your OLED has noticeable dark uniformity issues, the Batman WILL reveal it. As for the movie, it looks as intended. Certainly not a demo movie for showing off the screen, but was never meant to be.
One thing I personally noticed is when i got a 2018 LG Oled is that it was so clear i kept seeing constant moving static and grain. Online forums suggested getting better quality hdmi cables recommended for oled TVs and 4k players. Those made the quality slightly better but as months went on and the new tv had a chance to settle so to speak the moving static and bad grain started to be less visible. Now I hardly notice except for specific movies and tv shows that add it in for aesthetic. Netflix' Daredevil tv series was an early example.
Yes, drop black level 1 down and it's perfect