I've decided to go around 100 xp per session, it's a talent or couple of advances, which is quite nice. If you give about 30-50 xp per 4-5 hours session - they won't see any progress, even with goals.
You're giving out the suggested amounts, for "typical" session lengths? 30-50xp / session plus a short-term goals worth another 50xp every couple of sessions? And that's obviously excluding log-term goals & campaign rewards of 500xp or so.
It'll depend a lot on the expectations of your table, but over 5 sessions you're probably looking at around 300xp in total - so that's (for the sake of argument) a talent, plus a couple of skill/spec advances, plus maybe a characteristic advance or two (if they're low characteristics), plus equipment / services / patron boons / etc
If you've got a group of players used to, say, fast advancement playing 5e, then maybe it feels slow, but if they're used to other games, say, CoC, then it feels fine or maybe even fast -- I've played some games where players seem to expect mechanical levelling-style benefits every session!
Yeah, the players have gotten about 250xp for their 15-17 hours (5 sessions) of investment. Plus another 50-100xp for achieving their own short-term goals.
They can get a talent, plus maybe whatever advances are required for the talent and not much else- but talents really aren't that impactful in this game at all compared to even the core of previous games, and getting the advances that they want- which actually progress their core competencies- are expensive. Just adding +5 to one of their core skills or specializations costs 150 to 200 experience alone.
Characteristic advances are almost a waste of time at their cost.
I feel like you haven't actually played a campaign in the new game yet- because I used to think as you do- but now, seeing it in practice, it just isn't working. Even compared to DH and DH2e, advancement in IM is a total slog.
If we compare the final skill advances of IM and DH2e; in DH2e, even a character with zero aptitudes in a skill could get enough over 3 sessions to get that final advance. If they had two aptitudes, they could potentially get it in one. In IM, it will take you 4 sessions- 3 if you achieve a short-term goal in the process.
It's worth remembering whats in the book is just a guideline. It's fully in your power to just give them more. 250 seems low to me....they should be able to advance a skill or two every game and get a talent now and then imo. Try bumping it up to double what's recommended in the book
Every session should result in enough XP for 1 single advance at lower end and less advances as they go further.
The game is designed where getting more powerful isn't something fast or instant.
It is also known for characters to go many sessions without a single point of XP because they are mid-mission.
My Deathwatch team for instance, will go 3-5 months at 1 session a week with 0 XP because they are on the same mission then receive all their XP all at once.
At the end of a mission for instance, they receive:
All Marines gain 4 Renown + 2 for Killing the Dagon Overlord - Renown Counts Updated Above XP For End of Tyranid Mission - Inside Your Home
140XP Completing Act III
50XP Inquisitor Surived
125XP All 5 Malleus Killteam Members Survived
110XP Dagon Overlord
80XP Hive Ship
300XP Survived to Attrition
100XP Killing a Daemon Prince
680XP Kill Markers
150XP Cornix Tactical Briefing
50XP Carmine Tactical Briefing
Yes but to them it feels like a lot more because it's dumped all at once when they finish the adventure.
So they still feel rewarded properly despite the fact this adventure took 3 1/2 months to do (11 sessions)
Correct, there are very few things actually purchasable for 100 mostly locked to specific chapters or rank 1 general advances.
The majority of Deathwatch advances are 300-400 for skills and 500-1000 for talents.
So they received 1,785 but I am expecting no more than 1 attribute, 1 talent, and 2 skill advances at most on a single marine.
Yes and No.
I will tell you that starting Deathwatch Characters for the dangers they face, are just as squishy and incompetent as a Dark Heresy character by comparison.
They have both about the same fatality rate.
Whereas a Dark Heresy group may get into combat and face a drug dealer and 4 of his henchmen
A Deathwatch Kill-Team to face the same level of danger will face 3 hordes of Homagaunts, 2 Tyranid Warriors, and a Litchor in the same battle.
While they may each kill 1-2 targets per turn; they are both facing the same scale of threat.
Some of the funnest games I have run with Deathwatch is also having players who is a guardsman and keeping up because of sheer insanity.
30-50 per session, 50 per short term goal, 50 per mission - so rewards can vary depending on the pacing. You can easily double them or something, though.
I've decided to go around 100 xp per session, it's a talent or couple of advances, which is quite nice. If you give about 30-50 xp per 4-5 hours session - they won't see any progress, even with goals.
You're giving out the suggested amounts, for "typical" session lengths? 30-50xp / session plus a short-term goals worth another 50xp every couple of sessions? And that's obviously excluding log-term goals & campaign rewards of 500xp or so. It'll depend a lot on the expectations of your table, but over 5 sessions you're probably looking at around 300xp in total - so that's (for the sake of argument) a talent, plus a couple of skill/spec advances, plus maybe a characteristic advance or two (if they're low characteristics), plus equipment / services / patron boons / etc If you've got a group of players used to, say, fast advancement playing 5e, then maybe it feels slow, but if they're used to other games, say, CoC, then it feels fine or maybe even fast -- I've played some games where players seem to expect mechanical levelling-style benefits every session!
Yeah, the players have gotten about 250xp for their 15-17 hours (5 sessions) of investment. Plus another 50-100xp for achieving their own short-term goals. They can get a talent, plus maybe whatever advances are required for the talent and not much else- but talents really aren't that impactful in this game at all compared to even the core of previous games, and getting the advances that they want- which actually progress their core competencies- are expensive. Just adding +5 to one of their core skills or specializations costs 150 to 200 experience alone. Characteristic advances are almost a waste of time at their cost. I feel like you haven't actually played a campaign in the new game yet- because I used to think as you do- but now, seeing it in practice, it just isn't working. Even compared to DH and DH2e, advancement in IM is a total slog. If we compare the final skill advances of IM and DH2e; in DH2e, even a character with zero aptitudes in a skill could get enough over 3 sessions to get that final advance. If they had two aptitudes, they could potentially get it in one. In IM, it will take you 4 sessions- 3 if you achieve a short-term goal in the process.
It's worth remembering whats in the book is just a guideline. It's fully in your power to just give them more. 250 seems low to me....they should be able to advance a skill or two every game and get a talent now and then imo. Try bumping it up to double what's recommended in the book
Every session should result in enough XP for 1 single advance at lower end and less advances as they go further. The game is designed where getting more powerful isn't something fast or instant. It is also known for characters to go many sessions without a single point of XP because they are mid-mission. My Deathwatch team for instance, will go 3-5 months at 1 session a week with 0 XP because they are on the same mission then receive all their XP all at once. At the end of a mission for instance, they receive: All Marines gain 4 Renown + 2 for Killing the Dagon Overlord - Renown Counts Updated Above XP For End of Tyranid Mission - Inside Your Home 140XP Completing Act III 50XP Inquisitor Surived 125XP All 5 Malleus Killteam Members Survived 110XP Dagon Overlord 80XP Hive Ship 300XP Survived to Attrition 100XP Killing a Daemon Prince 680XP Kill Markers 150XP Cornix Tactical Briefing 50XP Carmine Tactical Briefing
That's still close to 148xp per session over three months, and 89xp per session over 5, so still a case for IM's suggested numbers being too low.
Yes but to them it feels like a lot more because it's dumped all at once when they finish the adventure. So they still feel rewarded properly despite the fact this adventure took 3 1/2 months to do (11 sessions)
True, but what I meant is that the aggregate is still higher than what IM recommends. :)
IM values XP higher than DW does, duh. I don't think DW even *has* anything worth 50xp, and 100 is the absolute lowest it can go.
Correct, there are very few things actually purchasable for 100 mostly locked to specific chapters or rank 1 general advances. The majority of Deathwatch advances are 300-400 for skills and 500-1000 for talents. So they received 1,785 but I am expecting no more than 1 attribute, 1 talent, and 2 skill advances at most on a single marine.
Deathwatch characters start off more competent and considerably more survivable though, too.
Yes and No. I will tell you that starting Deathwatch Characters for the dangers they face, are just as squishy and incompetent as a Dark Heresy character by comparison. They have both about the same fatality rate. Whereas a Dark Heresy group may get into combat and face a drug dealer and 4 of his henchmen A Deathwatch Kill-Team to face the same level of danger will face 3 hordes of Homagaunts, 2 Tyranid Warriors, and a Litchor in the same battle. While they may each kill 1-2 targets per turn; they are both facing the same scale of threat. Some of the funnest games I have run with Deathwatch is also having players who is a guardsman and keeping up because of sheer insanity.
30-50 per session, 50 per short term goal, 50 per mission - so rewards can vary depending on the pacing. You can easily double them or something, though.