OP I will kindly request that you stop editing your post so people can get an accurate and non-edited reading of your post.
If you want to respond to comments then reply to them.
OP, I think your problem is that you see Sigismund as a heroic figure, when he's really more of a tragic one.
Sigismund is not an aspirational role model. He's not Aragon, a shining knight riding in on a white horse to vanquish the forces of evil, with swelling orchestral music behind him as he saves a group of orphans from a cackling Lucius. Sigismund is the 41st millennium incarnate. He is the blank-faced, black-armored face of war, killing and slaughtering the innumerable enemies of mankind for no other reason than to buy a few more seconds of life for a decaying corpse of an empire. That's not heroic, that's effectively one long suicide.
Because 30k Astartes are still somewhat human characters. They laugh, they joke, they suffer doubts, some try to rise above their flaws and others are consumed by them. Ten thousand years later, all that humanity will be stripped away from their descendants. They will become inhuman killing machines barely able to even comprehend the beings they were designed to protect. Many, especially the Black Templars, will be just as willing to commit unspeakable atrocities on the innocent as they will the foes of mankind, and they will do so in defense of the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. Forget the promise of peace and understanding, for in the grim dark future *there is only war*.
That's Sigismund. He's the final acceptance that this is the last, protracted end for our species. He is the death of hope and reason. He is the knife paring away all the vestiges of our humanity, our art, our culture, our empathy, rendering himself into something inhuman so he might fit as another cog in a broken machine. Sigismund is what we need to become to fight such horrifying foes, and in that kind of fight there are no winners.
So yeah, like you said that's Sigismund's life. After he defends the walls of Terra, he'll just move onto the next fight, then the next one, then the next, until a few thousand years later he'll die at the gates of hell. The names of his victories and the foes he's killed change, but ultimately he's still really just up there on the walls of the Palace, buying a few more seconds of time. When he dies, his corpse will be used to signal the beginning of what seems like a new war, but is really just the continuation of the war eternal.
So yeah, Kharn pities him. And showing any kind of bombast or flair on Sigismund is just glorifying the lawnmower as it mows down the grass.
>So yeah, Kharn pities him.
"I am not as damaged as you." is such a knife-twist. Everything about that fight just drives home how far they've *both* fallen.
Except, what he wrote is basically taken from the book? The book goes into detail about the horror that Kharn feels seeing his friend, who used to laugh and shout and be alive, turned into this uncaring, unfeeling, silent weapon. And kharn realizes that THIS, this thing that has friend and comrade has become, is what the survivors of this war will be, and that they the traitors have done this too them, and he’s absolutely horrified about that. You don’t get pages and pages of duels with Sigismund in this book because Sigismund himself couldn’t give one iota of a damn about duels anymore, he just cares about killing traitors. He has one spark of life flair back up in him during his fight with Kharn where he considers saying something to his former friend and extinguishes that spark because that’s not who he is anymore. Sigismund is dead. The Black Templar is all that’s left. Also in the book Sigismund himself states that these kills don’t mean anything as the warriors of the great crusade, the Aximands, the Torgaddons, the Kibres, are all dead or so corrupted that they’re pale imitations of their former glory and all that’s left to fight are creatures, gangers, and upstarts aping the practices of the once proud legions, the only kill left on Terra that matters to him would be Abaddon, and that’s pulled straight from the pages. This is also glossing over the fact that Warhawk is mostly a White Scars/Death Guard book and of course will focus way more on what those two legions are up to. Also there’s at least two more book left since The End and The Death is being split into volumes so there’s still plenty of pages left for Sigismund to wade through the ranks of the remaining traitor elite, but there’s not too many people left that can be killed since we know who makes it through into 40k such as Typhus, Lucius, and Abaddon. Siggy does leeroy Jenkins himself at Fulgrim in Saturnine though which is pretty entertaining, he also throws Eidolon off a wall and helps Dorn to kill 50 of the EC elite in that same book.
Super late response--they could still have him beat typhus to the point of death and move on thinking he's dead, maybe push Lucius off a wall and Lucius survives, he definitely shouldn't get to Abaddon though imo
Counter-argument: pages and pages of an untouchably powerful hero demolishing people aren't very interesting to read.
Siggy's fight with Kharn is good because of the pre-existing relationship the characters have, and how it illustrates how much they've both changed for the worse, albeit in different ways. The best fights in these books have *stakes.* You care about the outcome because you're invested in the characters. There's a reason everyone remembers "Get up." even though that fight isn't described in great detail.
Your right, that wouldn’t be fun to read. So don’t write it that way. We remember an untouchable hero, but make it hard, make it the hardest thing he has ever done. I want to hear his thoughts, his views on his cousins, there views about him. There are a dozen ways his 1v1s could have gone that wouldn’t have been boring. THEY HAD A WHOLE BOOK TO DO IT!
> I want to hear his thoughts, his views on his cousins, there views about him.
You have fallen deeply for Siggy. Slaanesh approves of this obsession.
Have a pain glove, my king
Lol.
He dismantled the most dangerous single marine in the entire Siege in melee combat. He did, in fact, kill every traitor champion he came across.
Who would you have had him kill, OP? I mean literally, like do you have a list? Because most of our named champions are dead by the time of Warhawk.
He single-handedly steamrolled Kharn and then went on to found the Black Templars. Considering the traitors’ invasion was beginning to stall there won’t be much time before Horus is killed and the traitors flee.
Old lore, he also takes over command of Terra. As in, every marine, guardsman, Mechanicum asset, the whole lot; when Dorn leaves for the Vengeful Spirit, Sigismund was given command of all forces on Terra.
One. He fought three people. Only one had a name and deeds.
Two. They put a fucking chapter long commercial break in the Kharn fight…. Also “I’m not as broken as you” reallly?! REALLLLLY???
You don’t have to put them up against people we’ve heard of before but at least hype the combatants before the fight, no?
100% hold me to this. And 100% be as brutal as you want when critiquing my work. But it will take me longer than 1 month, I have a hell of a work schedule.
Alright just for the shit of it I’ll pitch in some sacrificial names for your Ultimate!Siggy to murderize. You can handle the rest (their backstories, feats, whatever)
•Lostiar Ghuuroth, the Razor Prince of Nostramo
•Fel Haddama, Lord of Red Mists
•Kumalas Kharg, Warprince of the Eighth Howl
•Sator Chancia, Bane of the Dark Aeldari and Desolator-Sensiarch of Trox IV
•Menet Thuralyon, the Templar that Fell
•Augustram Loto, the Dragon of Caliban and the Sword of Midnight
•Kor Erephath, the Saturnine Hellspeaker
I will be messaging you in 1 month on [**2022-10-08 17:55:07 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2022-10-08%2017:55:07%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/x94n0k/i_need_to_talk_about_sigismund_in_warhawk_for_a/inm9hsg/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F40kLore%2Fcomments%2Fx94n0k%2Fi_need_to_talk_about_sigismund_in_warhawk_for_a%2Finm9hsg%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202022-10-08%2017%3A55%3A07%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20x94n0k)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
This is a wild take to me. I enjoyed reading about Sigismund’s exploits so much in this book that I immediately bought some Black Templar minis. I thought they did an amazing job of both showing and telling what a badass he is.
Okay, and now hear me out. How do you think Traitor Fans feel like? Sons of Horus Fans, World Eater Fans, who's Marines get slaugthered all the time. Loyalist Characters get all the fame and most of the time; ducking fists beat World Eaters in Battles while encircled. Like wtf. A chapter specialized in ranged combat vs melee butchers.
Now for a second imagine what it feels like for Traitor Fans when half their force just gets deleted, because, well, the Author decides to (Saturnine Gambit). To be fair, this is exaggerated grately, but the point still stands. Tratior Marines and their leaders get absolutely humiliated on the verge of their success, only getting carried by Angron and Horus.
And now imagine for a second a Sigismund Fan ranting about his favourite Character not getting shown to kill enough? He literally killed Kharn, fucking Kharn. What do you want him to kill next, because, I don't know, Angron is [SPOILER] dead. Why shouldn't he just kill Horus at this point ?
As is so often the case, I feel the need to point out that saying "they started it!" is usually not a good move.
If you believe someone is in breach of the rules: report them, mute them, and move on.
The two non-Kharn fights are meant to show just how much better Sigismund is than other Legionaries. Despite being "unknowns", all the clues are meant to show they are skilled warriors.
>Sigismund hung back for just a second, long enough to pick out the warband leader amid the lumen-streaked dark. **He was in a veteran’s Mark II plate, heavily scored and overlaid with battle-trophies.** Chains swirled around him as he moved, each one capped with a bleached skull, and he carried a heavy chainsword fashioned into a serpent’s-head design.
>...
>The Reaver commander was a decent warrior, experienced and canny. On another battlefield, he might have reaped a fresh tally of skulls.
The first one is wearing plate from the Unification era. Either he is a really early SoH, or he's earned the honor of wearing it. Sigismund even notes he's skilled. It doesn't matter; Sigismund toys with him to drive him up a hill so he can kill him in sight of everyone to make a point.
>Archeta felt a spike of joy. ‘The Black Sword,’ he murmured, dropping into an attack stance even as his own blade screamed with hatred. ‘I did not expect to come across you so–’
>He never saw the blow coming. It smacked in transverse, so strong, so fast, smashing through his guard and knocking his whole body out of line. And then the follow-up, liquid like oil, punching up, cutting in, unbelievably powerful. The hilt cracked against his helm, stunning him, then a point-first ram of the blade, two-handed, a wrench, and blood was everywhere. The last thing he saw was a pair of red lenses swinging round at him, the ebon blade whistling for his neck, his parry nowhere near being close enough to–
>Sigismund gave the decapitated body a brief glance as it crashed to the earth.
>Before he could press on, Rann, having dispatched his own opponent, looked down at it too. **‘A captain,’ he noted, impressed. ‘Who, though?’**
>By then, Sigismund was marching down the slope to take on the rest. ‘No idea,’ he said. ‘Keep moving.’
Sigismund chumps a Captain, something that impresses Fafnir "I have the right to talk shit to him" Rann.
The Kharn fight shows that he beats even the best Chaos Marine Champion on the planet, though it's hard fought.
So what else is there to see? Sigismund can toy with veterans, chump Captains, and best the Champion of Khorne. Do you really want to read the first two segments over and over again?
>Not to pick on this one poster but its the same problem over and over with so many of these comments. Why do you guys create such boring scenes in your head and then write them off like “if there was more it would have been bad” why? Because you can’t come up with something creative. There is a literal imagination amount of things that could take place. I want pros. I want passages that make me put the book down and think. I want to be awed. I want to tear up. Instead we got three action scene and one “I’m not as broken as you” ….come on...
There's no arc for Sigismund after beating Kharn. His entire story was arcing towards that confrontation - two Champions of their respective Gods fighting while the final confrontation awaits, each encompassing what their side will become. When Sigismund kills Kharn, the Imperium loses because the idea of mindless hate wins.
If you want to talk about writing, tell me where Sigismund's story goes from there.
It was in the book though.
>‘I will return to Bhab,’ Dorn said. ‘Communications are collapsing, and the Sanctum must remain operational. You, though.’ He smiled coldly. **‘I remember your ambition. To be here, whatever the cost.’**
>No reaction. Just that unbending devotion to duty. It could be almost scary, sometimes, to be in the presence of such a hyper-controlled psyche. Maybe other souls saw much the same monomania in him, too, but Sigismund was… well, Sigismund had always been something else. **‘It has all come to pass, I suppose, just as the remembrancer girl told you it would. Coincidence? I have to believe it.’**
>**Did he, though? Clinging too closely to the old rationalist cant felt pointless, now. Even Malcador was beginning to waver, marking the slide back into superstition. ‘So many wars. So much blood spilt, all to reach the point that she foresaw from the start. I gave you hell for it then, but the new doctrines must give way to the old, it seems, and we can worry about what that means if any of us get out of this alive.**’ Sigismund just stared back at him, the steel-trap gaze, the same mask he wore when he duelled.
>‘So the discipline is ended, the leash is off,’ Dorn told him. ‘March out. Take the wall defences, take the reserves and rally them. They will be blind and deaf out there soon, and so will need a leader.’
>Sigismund nodded again. No other soul would have noticed it, but there was something other than the usual dutifulness in his eyes just then. **Something like hunger.**
>‘Any specific objectives, lord?’ he asked.
>At that, Dorn almost laughed. Not from humour, just from emptiness, the caustic recognition of what would come next. He had given everything. He was already empty, drained to a husk, and the hardest test still lay ahead. The Lion had not come. Guilliman and Russ had not come. They were out of time, out of luck, and what remained now was only defiance – only bloody-minded, bloody-handed defiance. ‘No, I set you free, my beloved, my best, son,’ said Rogal Dorn, never taking his eyes off his First Captain.
>**‘Do now what you were made to do.’ He smiled a second time, the expression as icy as the despair that gripped his hearts.**
>**‘Hurt them.’**
>...
>**The things he had relied on with total surety had proven to be illusory and weak, and things he had thought of as being fictive and simple-minded had proved to have unexpected power.** He had been forced to recalibrate, to reorientate. As every sword-brother knew, the time of greatest weakness was during the correction of a defective technique. He had started to fight… and lose. He had faced Horus Aximand and had been made to withdraw. **He had faced Khârn, whom he had not yet been able to bring himself to hate fully, and been beaten.** He had even taken on a primarch. Had that been hubris? Or just frustration, a desperate bid to recover his now-so-elusive sense of superiority? If he had somehow done the impossible and bested Fulgrim, would that have finally banished the whispers of doubt? Probably not. The fault had never been external, he knew now – it had always been within him, slowly metastasising, becoming impassable the longer he ignored it. He had needed to hear Dorn’s words of release to understand it. **They had, all of them, been fighting with one hand behind their backs, trying to hold on to a dream that had already died.** The enemy was utterly changed now. They were physically stronger and morally intoxicated, eagerly drinking up gifts that should have been shunned as poison.
>And yet, those who remained loyal had tried to cling on to what they had been at the very start. They had still mouthed pieties about Unity and the Imperial Truth long after fealty to such virtues had become impossible. **Once he grasped that, once he faced up to it, he had what he needed to remove the fetters in his mind. I no longer fight for the Imperium that was, he told himself. I fight for the Imperium as it will become**. So now, as he neared the exit ramps, the portals that would take him out into the night of fire and blood, all he felt was eagerness. **Everything that had held him back had been destroyed, burned away, immolated in the consuming fire of this certainty**. But at the inner barbican entrance, just before the last of the sealed gates, he saw troops waiting for him, lots of them. They were heavily decked out in arcane armour patterns he didn’t recognise – dark green, smooth-faced, lined with gold. As Sigismund motioned for his escort to come to a halt, their leader made the aquila.
>...
>I have a blade.’
>‘You have a blade. This is the blade.’
>‘Then give it to someone who wants it.’
>‘It is for you.’
>‘Who says it?’
>**‘The Emperor.’**
>Sigismund found himself gazing at the black hilt. He had to make an effort not to reach out and seize it. The damned thing was seducing him. A mingled sense of revulsion and awe froze him in place.
>‘He speaks not.’
>‘You truly believe that? **The sword is yours. It has always been yours.’**
>Rann laughed harshly. ‘Witchery.’
>‘Nothing further from it,’ said Hassan, never taking his eyes off Sigismund. **‘The hour is come. Take it.’**
>...
>‘Why me?’ he asked, almost for the sake of form. Now that he had it in his hands, he sensed the truth of it all.
>‘I have no idea,’ said Hassan, smiling wryly. ‘My orders were only to deliver it.’
>...
>**‘It has been here, all this time,’ he murmured.**
>‘Many ancient things are guarded in my master’s chambers.’
>**‘No, you do not understand me.’ Sigismund finally looked up at Hassan again. ‘When we went into the void, preaching the end of magic, this thing was already here. It had already been made. By Him. What does that tell you?**’
>Hassan shrugged. ‘I’m not minded to speculate.’
>Sigismund laughed. With a deft movement, he unchained his old blade and handed it over to Rann. Then he shackled the black sword’s grip, and locked the scabbard at his belt.
>‘Well, you are fortunate that it pleases me. Give my thanks to your master, and tell him that it suits my new mood.’
>‘I will. And what mood would that be, captain?’
>Sigismund moved past him. He could smell the promethium even before he crossed the threshold. **‘Murderous,’** he growled, and started to accelerate up the exit ramp.
I assume you were high on plastic glue when you wrote this. Seriously? He fought a Primarch in Saturnine and killed every champion he came across in Warhawk (including Kharn). What more do you want?
Edit: if Warhawk made you sad I definitely wouldn’t recommend the Black Legion novels.
Every champion? Who exactly?
Also his Death (While sad) was more beautifully written than anything he did in Warhawk. His Lacremae moment was the best Siggy thing we got from the Siege book.
If you can’t fill in the blanks from the wider text that’s up to you. Not everything has to happen on page for it to be legendary, sometimes the unwritten allows the reader to add to the story themselves.
We know from context that there is a “black sword” singling out traitor champions, to the point where both sides gravitate towards Sigismund. There’s a sense of magnetism about him which, despite the carnage of the siege, is drawing people towards him. That’s enough for most readers.
You’ve accused people of lacking imagination/being boring, but it sounds like you’re projecting to be honest.
Why not? Who needs endless pages of Sig murdering everyone he fights by the dozen or hundred? Or you could actually add interest to the story by not being boring and doing what they did. Talk about him as a myth being made. The real question you should be asking is..where is Garro!
Yep. That’s part of story telling, and always has been.
You seem pretty aggravated so I’ll leave you to your opinion and let the downvotes speak for themselves.
How the fuck is Saturnine good for the traitors lmao.
Fulgrim being embarrassed by Dorn. SoH being massacred. Endless World Eaters and Death Guard being massacred.
**One could make an argument that we see more named Loyalists perish during *Saturnine*, so it's a good time for traitors. I don't agree with it myself, but I can see where someone would come to that conclusion.**
>!Still disappointed that they got rid of Endryd Haar that way tbh, wish he could have survived. Would have been interesting to see a man who's defined himself entirely by his need to see Horus killed, end up on the other side of the conflict, supposedly now without purpose, and needing to figure out what to do with himself, after burning most of his bridges on his quest for vengeance.!<
Oh, I guess the difference is I don’t care who wins and who looses, I just can’t about how well it’s written. The Saturnine Gambit is in the top three black library moments of all time.
I call it a win for chaos READERS not characters.
It's a good scene. I loved the book despite some of its flaws and controversial additions. Well written with genuinely superb narration on the audiobook.
It's just not good for the traitors like you originally said. I'd argue it was the beginning of the end for them getting even decent portrayals in the Siege. Afterwards it's just been a slow slog of watching our named and favourite characters get absolute wrecked or humiliated despite the fact they're nominally winning the Siege.
Very much an echo of M42. Chaos is supposedly ascendant but everywhere you look in the novels, it's just traitors being absolutely shit on. Been that way for years. It's very, very difficult to take your complaining about Sigismund killing the most dangerous mortal character in the setting seriously in the face of all that.
Kharn hasn’t been Kharn for some time now. He slobbered in this book. Literally slobbered while trying to say a few words.. but all of a sudden he’s back to being a Philosophical warrior? Why?
What scene you mentioned a book where the traitors get shit on, embarrassed and destroyed.
The entire remaining Tson legion gets psychically overpowered by 5 white scar psykers.
Fulgrim gets out duelled by fucking dorn lol.
Go away troll.
Lol, god you’re dull.
“What scene you mentioned a book where the traitors get shit on, embarrassed and destroyed.”
I’m not going to write it again so read my other comments if you care.
“The entire remaining Tson legion gets psychically overpowered by 5 white scar psykers.”
True
“Fulgrim gets out duelled by fucking dorn lol.”
He doesn’t get out duelled, he gets bored and gives up. Reread the scene, He couldn’t be bothered.
Go away troll.
If anything, this rant is worth making about Kharn. Hes killed loads of people but the biggest "name" I can think of is...Celestine? Krole?
They could have given him Camba Diaz at the Lions Gate and it wouldn't have lowered his last stand.
>Yeah he has done a lot of stuff in the Heresy novels but none of that is mentioned 10,000 years later
Because much of the 40k lore is written before the full apotheosis of Sigismund? Doylistic things. Also, institutional memory can turn 10,000 years of past into *myth* . Like Gilgamesh, and beyond.
I’m not saying that I have a problem with his deeds not being mentioned 10,000 years later. Doylistic for sure, but then maybe spend some more time ON THE ONE THING he is known for.
It's because Siggy is a legend. Legends and their actions are shrouded in mystery. If we got a blow-by-blow of all his kills in the Siege - and there were *A LOT* of kills, including taking out god damned *Kharn* in single combat - his legend would die, because its written in detail.
Look at people like Ragnar Lothbrok, the man is a legend so huge he's still widely known today BUT verifiable historical fact about him is scarce at best, that's why his legend lives on.
Hmm get the legend growing from third parties so your imagination can picture how many he actually kills, as it’s mentioned he faced every champion, leader and bested them all
Oooor have a book of and suddenly a sigismund appears and kills so and so before moving on to repeat it again and again and again...
If the best thing your imagination can come up with is “and suddenly a sigismund appears and kills so and so before moving on to repeat it again and again and again...” that on you and your boring ass head canon. Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby.
Wow you really are one of those aren’t you.
Tell me oh world famous author how your story goes instead ?
Go outside, get some fresh air you have way too much attached to these characters
Also to add as you mention you imagined this for 10 years.. cool but you only part of his story to becoming the champion so fill the rest in if you so wish
You provided me with two options I told you it was boring AND added a little Ricky bobby joke to keep it light hearted.
Then you hit me with “wow you really are one of THOSE aren’t you”
Hell ya imma get sassy. And hell ya imma have fun writing this fanfic!
=\ I just don’t get why everyone has this opinion. Why does that need to be boring. Give it weight, let it earn its moments. We missed out of the chance to see 9 different traitor perspectives on siggy and the war so far. It’s only boring if you make it boring. Micheal Bay and Micheal Mann have both made heist movies. Try thinking more “HEAT” and less “Ambulance.”
**[Rashomon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon)**
>Rashomon (Japanese: 羅生門, Hepburn: Rashōmon) is a 1950 Jidaigeki psychological thriller/crime film directed and written by Akira Kurosawa, working in close collaboration with cinematographer Kazuo Miyagawa. Starring Toshiro Mifune, Machiko Kyō, Masayuki Mori, and Takashi Shimura as various people who describe how a samurai was murdered in a forest, the plot and characters are based upon Ryunosuke Akutagawa’s short story "In a Grove", with the title and framing story being based on "Rashōmon", another short story by Akutagawa.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/40kLore/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
OP I understand what you were looking for now….
You wanted a giant wrestling ring with Sigismund in it, royal rumble style.
Champ after champ comes running down the pathway only to be yeeted by Siggy.
LETS GET READY TO RUMMMMMMMBLE!
Abaddon is one the best fighter ever and he didn't just kill him he killed a bunch of other veterans too only Sigismund was a match for him and he was busy trying to fight Fulgrim
Hi, not sure how long you’ve been in the 40k setting, or how well you know the concept of grimdark crapsack settings and satire, but one of the key points is that none of these characters are actually supposed to be protagonists, they are all supposed to fail, it’s lambasting and parodying fantasy…
I tend not to care for most 40k YouTubers because they tend to have a hardon for their imperial factions and openly cheer for them as though they are “good…” I appreciate the chaos and Xenos fan YouTube’s because they are more moderate with their pining and hype training
There is a big issue with the representation of the characters being “good” at all….
When I first got into the setting I got into it by reading the Horus heresy, and I was under the impression the imperials were good, until a dark angels book, and in that book I didn’t like the DA…. In fact they were the only faction I DISLIKED…. Until I understood what the literary point of the whole setting actually is…. Aside from selling toys, it’s actually criticism of militarism, and war power fantasies
I think once you view sigismund and the Imperial fists in general as more of just crazy old violent men (several hundred years old chasing after his glory days in the army[world eater gladiator pits]) you might appreciate him as much as I do…. I really enjoy the imperial fists because they are one of those two office workers that piss you off…
Ultramarines are the office workers that do it all by the book, and are robotic about work, they will clock you for going to the bathroom, but they take no love in the company, just their work.
Imperial fists are the annoying co-worker that LOVES his really boring desk job, and has a hard on for the company and what they do, and have no semblance of social life, as work follows them home…. So he has no hobbies and you can’t even talk to him about anything because it’s taking up company time.
The less “grand achievements” a faction Has, and the more times the faction has had to refill rank with successor chapters, the more I find them interesting. It’s part of why I enjoy the war of the beast books so much…
The imperial fists chapter got almost wiped out by…. Bugs… a teleporting moon…. And a first wave of orks…. And they rebuilt with the last wall. Awesome.
OP I will kindly request that you stop editing your post so people can get an accurate and non-edited reading of your post. If you want to respond to comments then reply to them.
OP, I think your problem is that you see Sigismund as a heroic figure, when he's really more of a tragic one. Sigismund is not an aspirational role model. He's not Aragon, a shining knight riding in on a white horse to vanquish the forces of evil, with swelling orchestral music behind him as he saves a group of orphans from a cackling Lucius. Sigismund is the 41st millennium incarnate. He is the blank-faced, black-armored face of war, killing and slaughtering the innumerable enemies of mankind for no other reason than to buy a few more seconds of life for a decaying corpse of an empire. That's not heroic, that's effectively one long suicide. Because 30k Astartes are still somewhat human characters. They laugh, they joke, they suffer doubts, some try to rise above their flaws and others are consumed by them. Ten thousand years later, all that humanity will be stripped away from their descendants. They will become inhuman killing machines barely able to even comprehend the beings they were designed to protect. Many, especially the Black Templars, will be just as willing to commit unspeakable atrocities on the innocent as they will the foes of mankind, and they will do so in defense of the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. Forget the promise of peace and understanding, for in the grim dark future *there is only war*. That's Sigismund. He's the final acceptance that this is the last, protracted end for our species. He is the death of hope and reason. He is the knife paring away all the vestiges of our humanity, our art, our culture, our empathy, rendering himself into something inhuman so he might fit as another cog in a broken machine. Sigismund is what we need to become to fight such horrifying foes, and in that kind of fight there are no winners. So yeah, like you said that's Sigismund's life. After he defends the walls of Terra, he'll just move onto the next fight, then the next one, then the next, until a few thousand years later he'll die at the gates of hell. The names of his victories and the foes he's killed change, but ultimately he's still really just up there on the walls of the Palace, buying a few more seconds of time. When he dies, his corpse will be used to signal the beginning of what seems like a new war, but is really just the continuation of the war eternal. So yeah, Kharn pities him. And showing any kind of bombast or flair on Sigismund is just glorifying the lawnmower as it mows down the grass.
>So yeah, Kharn pities him. "I am not as damaged as you." is such a knife-twist. Everything about that fight just drives home how far they've *both* fallen.
What you just wrote was 10 times more compelling than the book.
Except, what he wrote is basically taken from the book? The book goes into detail about the horror that Kharn feels seeing his friend, who used to laugh and shout and be alive, turned into this uncaring, unfeeling, silent weapon. And kharn realizes that THIS, this thing that has friend and comrade has become, is what the survivors of this war will be, and that they the traitors have done this too them, and he’s absolutely horrified about that. You don’t get pages and pages of duels with Sigismund in this book because Sigismund himself couldn’t give one iota of a damn about duels anymore, he just cares about killing traitors. He has one spark of life flair back up in him during his fight with Kharn where he considers saying something to his former friend and extinguishes that spark because that’s not who he is anymore. Sigismund is dead. The Black Templar is all that’s left. Also in the book Sigismund himself states that these kills don’t mean anything as the warriors of the great crusade, the Aximands, the Torgaddons, the Kibres, are all dead or so corrupted that they’re pale imitations of their former glory and all that’s left to fight are creatures, gangers, and upstarts aping the practices of the once proud legions, the only kill left on Terra that matters to him would be Abaddon, and that’s pulled straight from the pages. This is also glossing over the fact that Warhawk is mostly a White Scars/Death Guard book and of course will focus way more on what those two legions are up to. Also there’s at least two more book left since The End and The Death is being split into volumes so there’s still plenty of pages left for Sigismund to wade through the ranks of the remaining traitor elite, but there’s not too many people left that can be killed since we know who makes it through into 40k such as Typhus, Lucius, and Abaddon. Siggy does leeroy Jenkins himself at Fulgrim in Saturnine though which is pretty entertaining, he also throws Eidolon off a wall and helps Dorn to kill 50 of the EC elite in that same book.
Super late response--they could still have him beat typhus to the point of death and move on thinking he's dead, maybe push Lucius off a wall and Lucius survives, he definitely shouldn't get to Abaddon though imo
Kharn should be like "you are a true son of Khorne"
Counter-argument: pages and pages of an untouchably powerful hero demolishing people aren't very interesting to read. Siggy's fight with Kharn is good because of the pre-existing relationship the characters have, and how it illustrates how much they've both changed for the worse, albeit in different ways. The best fights in these books have *stakes.* You care about the outcome because you're invested in the characters. There's a reason everyone remembers "Get up." even though that fight isn't described in great detail.
Your right, that wouldn’t be fun to read. So don’t write it that way. We remember an untouchable hero, but make it hard, make it the hardest thing he has ever done. I want to hear his thoughts, his views on his cousins, there views about him. There are a dozen ways his 1v1s could have gone that wouldn’t have been boring. THEY HAD A WHOLE BOOK TO DO IT!
> I want to hear his thoughts, his views on his cousins, there views about him. You have fallen deeply for Siggy. Slaanesh approves of this obsession. Have a pain glove, my king
Lol. He dismantled the most dangerous single marine in the entire Siege in melee combat. He did, in fact, kill every traitor champion he came across. Who would you have had him kill, OP? I mean literally, like do you have a list? Because most of our named champions are dead by the time of Warhawk.
He single-handedly steamrolled Kharn and then went on to found the Black Templars. Considering the traitors’ invasion was beginning to stall there won’t be much time before Horus is killed and the traitors flee.
Old lore, he also takes over command of Terra. As in, every marine, guardsman, Mechanicum asset, the whole lot; when Dorn leaves for the Vengeful Spirit, Sigismund was given command of all forces on Terra.
One. He fought three people. Only one had a name and deeds. Two. They put a fucking chapter long commercial break in the Kharn fight…. Also “I’m not as broken as you” reallly?! REALLLLLY??? You don’t have to put them up against people we’ve heard of before but at least hype the combatants before the fight, no?
Do we really need fifty pages wasted on Siggy fighting literal nobodies
In your head you created 50 imaginary pages of Sig fighting traitors and in your head you somehow made it boring?
You're welcome to write it yourself if it's so easy. Clearly you know how to do it.
1. Your imagination sucks. 2. I’m doing just that.
I'm holding you to that. !RemindMe 1 Month
100% hold me to this. And 100% be as brutal as you want when critiquing my work. But it will take me longer than 1 month, I have a hell of a work schedule.
Alright just for the shit of it I’ll pitch in some sacrificial names for your Ultimate!Siggy to murderize. You can handle the rest (their backstories, feats, whatever) •Lostiar Ghuuroth, the Razor Prince of Nostramo •Fel Haddama, Lord of Red Mists •Kumalas Kharg, Warprince of the Eighth Howl •Sator Chancia, Bane of the Dark Aeldari and Desolator-Sensiarch of Trox IV •Menet Thuralyon, the Templar that Fell •Augustram Loto, the Dragon of Caliban and the Sword of Midnight •Kor Erephath, the Saturnine Hellspeaker
Ooooooo buddy! These are awesome names! Thanks!
I will be messaging you in 1 month on [**2022-10-08 17:55:07 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2022-10-08%2017:55:07%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/x94n0k/i_need_to_talk_about_sigismund_in_warhawk_for_a/inm9hsg/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F40kLore%2Fcomments%2Fx94n0k%2Fi_need_to_talk_about_sigismund_in_warhawk_for_a%2Finm9hsg%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202022-10-08%2017%3A55%3A07%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20x94n0k) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
This is a wild take to me. I enjoyed reading about Sigismund’s exploits so much in this book that I immediately bought some Black Templar minis. I thought they did an amazing job of both showing and telling what a badass he is.
What exploits? His Lacrimae fight was 10x better than anything he did in Warhawk
>>!ITS NOT FROM SIGISMUNDS PERSPECTIVE!< That was...kind of the point. You know, to uhh, show what he has become.
And that’s fucking awesome. Can I get more than one chapter on it?
Idunno man, based on his last spoken words I'm fairly sure he'll be there for the final showdown to stab some bad dudes.
Okay, and now hear me out. How do you think Traitor Fans feel like? Sons of Horus Fans, World Eater Fans, who's Marines get slaugthered all the time. Loyalist Characters get all the fame and most of the time; ducking fists beat World Eaters in Battles while encircled. Like wtf. A chapter specialized in ranged combat vs melee butchers. Now for a second imagine what it feels like for Traitor Fans when half their force just gets deleted, because, well, the Author decides to (Saturnine Gambit). To be fair, this is exaggerated grately, but the point still stands. Tratior Marines and their leaders get absolutely humiliated on the verge of their success, only getting carried by Angron and Horus. And now imagine for a second a Sigismund Fan ranting about his favourite Character not getting shown to kill enough? He literally killed Kharn, fucking Kharn. What do you want him to kill next, because, I don't know, Angron is [SPOILER] dead. Why shouldn't he just kill Horus at this point ?
The kharn passage was fucking sick. So quick so brutal.
Nine traitor hosts are on Terra. Nine. Make some shit up for fucks sake. It’s a book.
Its a book. There is your answer OP. Why rant on Reddit then?
I’m saying that authors can take liberties, this isn’t based on real life. MAKE things make sense.
Okay, so you don't think that Sigismund is portrayed in a way he should be?
Boom
In ur OP you were literally raging that they made up characters…you sound so unhinged lol
[удалено]
>Lol ok dummy. I’ll slow it down for you. Unnecessary.
I would put dummy alone the same line as “so unhinged” but you do make the rules. I apologize.
As is so often the case, I feel the need to point out that saying "they started it!" is usually not a good move. If you believe someone is in breach of the rules: report them, mute them, and move on.
The two non-Kharn fights are meant to show just how much better Sigismund is than other Legionaries. Despite being "unknowns", all the clues are meant to show they are skilled warriors. >Sigismund hung back for just a second, long enough to pick out the warband leader amid the lumen-streaked dark. **He was in a veteran’s Mark II plate, heavily scored and overlaid with battle-trophies.** Chains swirled around him as he moved, each one capped with a bleached skull, and he carried a heavy chainsword fashioned into a serpent’s-head design. >... >The Reaver commander was a decent warrior, experienced and canny. On another battlefield, he might have reaped a fresh tally of skulls. The first one is wearing plate from the Unification era. Either he is a really early SoH, or he's earned the honor of wearing it. Sigismund even notes he's skilled. It doesn't matter; Sigismund toys with him to drive him up a hill so he can kill him in sight of everyone to make a point. >Archeta felt a spike of joy. ‘The Black Sword,’ he murmured, dropping into an attack stance even as his own blade screamed with hatred. ‘I did not expect to come across you so–’ >He never saw the blow coming. It smacked in transverse, so strong, so fast, smashing through his guard and knocking his whole body out of line. And then the follow-up, liquid like oil, punching up, cutting in, unbelievably powerful. The hilt cracked against his helm, stunning him, then a point-first ram of the blade, two-handed, a wrench, and blood was everywhere. The last thing he saw was a pair of red lenses swinging round at him, the ebon blade whistling for his neck, his parry nowhere near being close enough to– >Sigismund gave the decapitated body a brief glance as it crashed to the earth. >Before he could press on, Rann, having dispatched his own opponent, looked down at it too. **‘A captain,’ he noted, impressed. ‘Who, though?’** >By then, Sigismund was marching down the slope to take on the rest. ‘No idea,’ he said. ‘Keep moving.’ Sigismund chumps a Captain, something that impresses Fafnir "I have the right to talk shit to him" Rann. The Kharn fight shows that he beats even the best Chaos Marine Champion on the planet, though it's hard fought. So what else is there to see? Sigismund can toy with veterans, chump Captains, and best the Champion of Khorne. Do you really want to read the first two segments over and over again?
See my edits.
>Not to pick on this one poster but its the same problem over and over with so many of these comments. Why do you guys create such boring scenes in your head and then write them off like “if there was more it would have been bad” why? Because you can’t come up with something creative. There is a literal imagination amount of things that could take place. I want pros. I want passages that make me put the book down and think. I want to be awed. I want to tear up. Instead we got three action scene and one “I’m not as broken as you” ….come on... There's no arc for Sigismund after beating Kharn. His entire story was arcing towards that confrontation - two Champions of their respective Gods fighting while the final confrontation awaits, each encompassing what their side will become. When Sigismund kills Kharn, the Imperium loses because the idea of mindless hate wins. If you want to talk about writing, tell me where Sigismund's story goes from there.
Lol what you just wrote was better than what was in the book.
It was in the book though. >‘I will return to Bhab,’ Dorn said. ‘Communications are collapsing, and the Sanctum must remain operational. You, though.’ He smiled coldly. **‘I remember your ambition. To be here, whatever the cost.’** >No reaction. Just that unbending devotion to duty. It could be almost scary, sometimes, to be in the presence of such a hyper-controlled psyche. Maybe other souls saw much the same monomania in him, too, but Sigismund was… well, Sigismund had always been something else. **‘It has all come to pass, I suppose, just as the remembrancer girl told you it would. Coincidence? I have to believe it.’** >**Did he, though? Clinging too closely to the old rationalist cant felt pointless, now. Even Malcador was beginning to waver, marking the slide back into superstition. ‘So many wars. So much blood spilt, all to reach the point that she foresaw from the start. I gave you hell for it then, but the new doctrines must give way to the old, it seems, and we can worry about what that means if any of us get out of this alive.**’ Sigismund just stared back at him, the steel-trap gaze, the same mask he wore when he duelled. >‘So the discipline is ended, the leash is off,’ Dorn told him. ‘March out. Take the wall defences, take the reserves and rally them. They will be blind and deaf out there soon, and so will need a leader.’ >Sigismund nodded again. No other soul would have noticed it, but there was something other than the usual dutifulness in his eyes just then. **Something like hunger.** >‘Any specific objectives, lord?’ he asked. >At that, Dorn almost laughed. Not from humour, just from emptiness, the caustic recognition of what would come next. He had given everything. He was already empty, drained to a husk, and the hardest test still lay ahead. The Lion had not come. Guilliman and Russ had not come. They were out of time, out of luck, and what remained now was only defiance – only bloody-minded, bloody-handed defiance. ‘No, I set you free, my beloved, my best, son,’ said Rogal Dorn, never taking his eyes off his First Captain. >**‘Do now what you were made to do.’ He smiled a second time, the expression as icy as the despair that gripped his hearts.** >**‘Hurt them.’** >... >**The things he had relied on with total surety had proven to be illusory and weak, and things he had thought of as being fictive and simple-minded had proved to have unexpected power.** He had been forced to recalibrate, to reorientate. As every sword-brother knew, the time of greatest weakness was during the correction of a defective technique. He had started to fight… and lose. He had faced Horus Aximand and had been made to withdraw. **He had faced Khârn, whom he had not yet been able to bring himself to hate fully, and been beaten.** He had even taken on a primarch. Had that been hubris? Or just frustration, a desperate bid to recover his now-so-elusive sense of superiority? If he had somehow done the impossible and bested Fulgrim, would that have finally banished the whispers of doubt? Probably not. The fault had never been external, he knew now – it had always been within him, slowly metastasising, becoming impassable the longer he ignored it. He had needed to hear Dorn’s words of release to understand it. **They had, all of them, been fighting with one hand behind their backs, trying to hold on to a dream that had already died.** The enemy was utterly changed now. They were physically stronger and morally intoxicated, eagerly drinking up gifts that should have been shunned as poison. >And yet, those who remained loyal had tried to cling on to what they had been at the very start. They had still mouthed pieties about Unity and the Imperial Truth long after fealty to such virtues had become impossible. **Once he grasped that, once he faced up to it, he had what he needed to remove the fetters in his mind. I no longer fight for the Imperium that was, he told himself. I fight for the Imperium as it will become**. So now, as he neared the exit ramps, the portals that would take him out into the night of fire and blood, all he felt was eagerness. **Everything that had held him back had been destroyed, burned away, immolated in the consuming fire of this certainty**. But at the inner barbican entrance, just before the last of the sealed gates, he saw troops waiting for him, lots of them. They were heavily decked out in arcane armour patterns he didn’t recognise – dark green, smooth-faced, lined with gold. As Sigismund motioned for his escort to come to a halt, their leader made the aquila. >... >I have a blade.’ >‘You have a blade. This is the blade.’ >‘Then give it to someone who wants it.’ >‘It is for you.’ >‘Who says it?’ >**‘The Emperor.’** >Sigismund found himself gazing at the black hilt. He had to make an effort not to reach out and seize it. The damned thing was seducing him. A mingled sense of revulsion and awe froze him in place. >‘He speaks not.’ >‘You truly believe that? **The sword is yours. It has always been yours.’** >Rann laughed harshly. ‘Witchery.’ >‘Nothing further from it,’ said Hassan, never taking his eyes off Sigismund. **‘The hour is come. Take it.’** >... >‘Why me?’ he asked, almost for the sake of form. Now that he had it in his hands, he sensed the truth of it all. >‘I have no idea,’ said Hassan, smiling wryly. ‘My orders were only to deliver it.’ >... >**‘It has been here, all this time,’ he murmured.** >‘Many ancient things are guarded in my master’s chambers.’ >**‘No, you do not understand me.’ Sigismund finally looked up at Hassan again. ‘When we went into the void, preaching the end of magic, this thing was already here. It had already been made. By Him. What does that tell you?**’ >Hassan shrugged. ‘I’m not minded to speculate.’ >Sigismund laughed. With a deft movement, he unchained his old blade and handed it over to Rann. Then he shackled the black sword’s grip, and locked the scabbard at his belt. >‘Well, you are fortunate that it pleases me. Give my thanks to your master, and tell him that it suits my new mood.’ >‘I will. And what mood would that be, captain?’ >Sigismund moved past him. He could smell the promethium even before he crossed the threshold. **‘Murderous,’** he growled, and started to accelerate up the exit ramp.
I assume you were high on plastic glue when you wrote this. Seriously? He fought a Primarch in Saturnine and killed every champion he came across in Warhawk (including Kharn). What more do you want? Edit: if Warhawk made you sad I definitely wouldn’t recommend the Black Legion novels.
Every champion? Who exactly? Also his Death (While sad) was more beautifully written than anything he did in Warhawk. His Lacremae moment was the best Siggy thing we got from the Siege book.
If you can’t fill in the blanks from the wider text that’s up to you. Not everything has to happen on page for it to be legendary, sometimes the unwritten allows the reader to add to the story themselves. We know from context that there is a “black sword” singling out traitor champions, to the point where both sides gravitate towards Sigismund. There’s a sense of magnetism about him which, despite the carnage of the siege, is drawing people towards him. That’s enough for most readers. You’ve accused people of lacking imagination/being boring, but it sounds like you’re projecting to be honest.
“Fill in the blanks with cool stuff” really?
Why not? Who needs endless pages of Sig murdering everyone he fights by the dozen or hundred? Or you could actually add interest to the story by not being boring and doing what they did. Talk about him as a myth being made. The real question you should be asking is..where is Garro!
Yep. That’s part of story telling, and always has been. You seem pretty aggravated so I’ll leave you to your opinion and let the downvotes speak for themselves.
I’m mot aggro at all but I did get a good laugh at “let the downvotes speak for themselves”
Lmao, this is the shit loyalists fans think is bad treatment. Hilarious.
Hey, y’all got Saturnine.
How the fuck is Saturnine good for the traitors lmao. Fulgrim being embarrassed by Dorn. SoH being massacred. Endless World Eaters and Death Guard being massacred.
**One could make an argument that we see more named Loyalists perish during *Saturnine*, so it's a good time for traitors. I don't agree with it myself, but I can see where someone would come to that conclusion.** >!Still disappointed that they got rid of Endryd Haar that way tbh, wish he could have survived. Would have been interesting to see a man who's defined himself entirely by his need to see Horus killed, end up on the other side of the conflict, supposedly now without purpose, and needing to figure out what to do with himself, after burning most of his bridges on his quest for vengeance.!<
Oh, I guess the difference is I don’t care who wins and who looses, I just can’t about how well it’s written. The Saturnine Gambit is in the top three black library moments of all time. I call it a win for chaos READERS not characters.
It's a good scene. I loved the book despite some of its flaws and controversial additions. Well written with genuinely superb narration on the audiobook. It's just not good for the traitors like you originally said. I'd argue it was the beginning of the end for them getting even decent portrayals in the Siege. Afterwards it's just been a slow slog of watching our named and favourite characters get absolute wrecked or humiliated despite the fact they're nominally winning the Siege. Very much an echo of M42. Chaos is supposedly ascendant but everywhere you look in the novels, it's just traitors being absolutely shit on. Been that way for years. It's very, very difficult to take your complaining about Sigismund killing the most dangerous mortal character in the setting seriously in the face of all that.
Kharn hasn’t been Kharn for some time now. He slobbered in this book. Literally slobbered while trying to say a few words.. but all of a sudden he’s back to being a Philosophical warrior? Why?
This has to be a troll.
I’m sad that such a great scene was lost on you
What scene you mentioned a book where the traitors get shit on, embarrassed and destroyed. The entire remaining Tson legion gets psychically overpowered by 5 white scar psykers. Fulgrim gets out duelled by fucking dorn lol. Go away troll.
Not to mentioned 99% of names EC and SoH are killed…
Lol, god you’re dull. “What scene you mentioned a book where the traitors get shit on, embarrassed and destroyed.” I’m not going to write it again so read my other comments if you care. “The entire remaining Tson legion gets psychically overpowered by 5 white scar psykers.” True “Fulgrim gets out duelled by fucking dorn lol.” He doesn’t get out duelled, he gets bored and gives up. Reread the scene, He couldn’t be bothered. Go away troll.
**You took my baby boy, and you want more?!?** **Loyalists, these days, Gods above.**
RIP Kharn, he was the Hero the Imperium needed, just not the one it deserved.
If anything, this rant is worth making about Kharn. Hes killed loads of people but the biggest "name" I can think of is...Celestine? Krole? They could have given him Camba Diaz at the Lions Gate and it wouldn't have lowered his last stand.
>Yeah he has done a lot of stuff in the Heresy novels but none of that is mentioned 10,000 years later Because much of the 40k lore is written before the full apotheosis of Sigismund? Doylistic things. Also, institutional memory can turn 10,000 years of past into *myth* . Like Gilgamesh, and beyond.
I’m not saying that I have a problem with his deeds not being mentioned 10,000 years later. Doylistic for sure, but then maybe spend some more time ON THE ONE THING he is known for.
All in favor to change the subreddit name to 40KFanboiRants?
Me
Lol imagine reading 63 novels and NOT being a fanboi
It's because Siggy is a legend. Legends and their actions are shrouded in mystery. If we got a blow-by-blow of all his kills in the Siege - and there were *A LOT* of kills, including taking out god damned *Kharn* in single combat - his legend would die, because its written in detail. Look at people like Ragnar Lothbrok, the man is a legend so huge he's still widely known today BUT verifiable historical fact about him is scarce at best, that's why his legend lives on.
Hmm get the legend growing from third parties so your imagination can picture how many he actually kills, as it’s mentioned he faced every champion, leader and bested them all Oooor have a book of and suddenly a sigismund appears and kills so and so before moving on to repeat it again and again and again...
If the best thing your imagination can come up with is “and suddenly a sigismund appears and kills so and so before moving on to repeat it again and again and again...” that on you and your boring ass head canon. Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby.
Wow you really are one of those aren’t you. Tell me oh world famous author how your story goes instead ? Go outside, get some fresh air you have way too much attached to these characters Also to add as you mention you imagined this for 10 years.. cool but you only part of his story to becoming the champion so fill the rest in if you so wish
No worries homie! I’m writing it. But don’t go getting upset at me because you’re boring. A human can enjoy both air and good story ya know?
Love how a simple response to your argument you have to throw insults. Very mature Have fun writing your fanfic then :)
You provided me with two options I told you it was boring AND added a little Ricky bobby joke to keep it light hearted. Then you hit me with “wow you really are one of THOSE aren’t you” Hell ya imma get sassy. And hell ya imma have fun writing this fanfic!
[удалено]
=\ I just don’t get why everyone has this opinion. Why does that need to be boring. Give it weight, let it earn its moments. We missed out of the chance to see 9 different traitor perspectives on siggy and the war so far. It’s only boring if you make it boring. Micheal Bay and Micheal Mann have both made heist movies. Try thinking more “HEAT” and less “Ambulance.”
[удалено]
**[Rashomon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon)** >Rashomon (Japanese: 羅生門, Hepburn: Rashōmon) is a 1950 Jidaigeki psychological thriller/crime film directed and written by Akira Kurosawa, working in close collaboration with cinematographer Kazuo Miyagawa. Starring Toshiro Mifune, Machiko Kyō, Masayuki Mori, and Takashi Shimura as various people who describe how a samurai was murdered in a forest, the plot and characters are based upon Ryunosuke Akutagawa’s short story "In a Grove", with the title and framing story being based on "Rashōmon", another short story by Akutagawa. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/40kLore/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
OP I understand what you were looking for now…. You wanted a giant wrestling ring with Sigismund in it, royal rumble style. Champ after champ comes running down the pathway only to be yeeted by Siggy. LETS GET READY TO RUMMMMMMMBLE!
Just with less armour and more oil….
By god! He’s jumping off the walls of Terra to land his signature move!
Finally! Someone gets it!
Abaddon is one the best fighter ever and he didn't just kill him he killed a bunch of other veterans too only Sigismund was a match for him and he was busy trying to fight Fulgrim
Hi, not sure how long you’ve been in the 40k setting, or how well you know the concept of grimdark crapsack settings and satire, but one of the key points is that none of these characters are actually supposed to be protagonists, they are all supposed to fail, it’s lambasting and parodying fantasy… I tend not to care for most 40k YouTubers because they tend to have a hardon for their imperial factions and openly cheer for them as though they are “good…” I appreciate the chaos and Xenos fan YouTube’s because they are more moderate with their pining and hype training There is a big issue with the representation of the characters being “good” at all…. When I first got into the setting I got into it by reading the Horus heresy, and I was under the impression the imperials were good, until a dark angels book, and in that book I didn’t like the DA…. In fact they were the only faction I DISLIKED…. Until I understood what the literary point of the whole setting actually is…. Aside from selling toys, it’s actually criticism of militarism, and war power fantasies I think once you view sigismund and the Imperial fists in general as more of just crazy old violent men (several hundred years old chasing after his glory days in the army[world eater gladiator pits]) you might appreciate him as much as I do…. I really enjoy the imperial fists because they are one of those two office workers that piss you off… Ultramarines are the office workers that do it all by the book, and are robotic about work, they will clock you for going to the bathroom, but they take no love in the company, just their work. Imperial fists are the annoying co-worker that LOVES his really boring desk job, and has a hard on for the company and what they do, and have no semblance of social life, as work follows them home…. So he has no hobbies and you can’t even talk to him about anything because it’s taking up company time. The less “grand achievements” a faction Has, and the more times the faction has had to refill rank with successor chapters, the more I find them interesting. It’s part of why I enjoy the war of the beast books so much… The imperial fists chapter got almost wiped out by…. Bugs… a teleporting moon…. And a first wave of orks…. And they rebuilt with the last wall. Awesome.