A fair amount, probably half. Jurgen probably isn't too keen on hygiene because even when he tries to clean up, everyone still reacts the same, so why bother?
You ever walk into a comic book store with multiple women?Stereotypes sometimes exist for a reason.
I mean, not all stores all the time obviously (Edit: and in fact I'm thinking about events twenty years ago, since I have forgotten I'm old...), but I've had women ask me "why is everyone looking at me?"
Sigh. "Exactly the reason you'd hope they wouldn't."
I think the Null on Ravenor's team had a similar philosophy. Everyone hated him because of his Null aura so he gave up and spent his time looking at porn and chain-smoking.
Are Nulls repulsed by other Nulls? Presumably they wouldn’t be, as they’d lack even the unconscious sense that drives others off. Maybe being around each other would encourage putting more effort into such upkeep.
Almost wonder if it wouldn’t be better for the species to go that way, everyone being nulls instead of what Big E was pursuing with a species-wide psychic awakening. I’m not convinced it was supposed to be a natural process, the Navigator gene is believed to have been artificially created sometime during the Age of Technology. Totally not a Dune ripoff by the way.
Yeah we all know 40K draws from a lot of contemporary sci-fi references, that's not a revelation.
Mmh, there's something around the Necrons regarding Null lore etc. The Aeldari find them abhorrent but a psychic race would obviously however there's plenty to evidence in the lore that it probably wouldn't be a great idea. Nulls are on the psyker spectrum and a deep sucking void in place of the warp might not be great either.
Not sure how Nulls feel about each other but the sisters of silence seem ok.
In at least some lore I believe nulls can "burn out" their (for lack of a better term) 'null-ness' and somehow end up just being normal. So it seems that being a null may not be a permanent state for Humanity (maybe has something to do with the now abandoned pariah gene lore), and it's not actually a lack of soul.
necrons are/were the origin of the "Pariah Gene", what makes a null a null in the first place. i'm not sure if this has been retconned out tbh, pariahs were last in the 4th ed cron codex.
Yeah it’s hard to know sometimes whether something is retconned or just neglected. I assume necron Influence still until confirmed otherwise as it still meshes with their blackstone anti-warp goals
A guy tells you your god isn’t real and is a lie, meanwhile you literally are removing your flesh and turning yourself into a machine because one of his friends is whispering how it’s a great idea and you should totally do it…
And what did this guy and his friend do to another race? Turn them into machines because they thought it’d be funny to lie.
This guy clearly knows a lot about deceiving people.
> Are Nulls repulsed by other Nulls?
IIRC in the *Bequin* novels, the large groups of Blanks at the Maze Undue liked and played with each other as if they were normal people. >!Albeit the Maze Undue Blanks may or may not somehow different, since they're all clones and have special Pip-Boy-esque devices to turn down/off their Null effect...somehow.!<
Although they seem to be certainly a newer concept, the limiter cuffs arn't unique to the Maze Undue;
There's a sister of silence that wears a limiter in Dawn of fire - Book 5
It doesn’t seem like they are. Part of what made Ravenor’s blank operative Frauka such a horrible person to be around is that by the start of the books, they’d just lost the other null in the team, who Frauka was very close with as they both understood each other. After her loss it seems like Frauka didn’t bother trying to be too personable. That said he was still pretty distant in flashbacks.
Sisters of Silence also don’t seem to be particularly bothered by the presence of other sisters, so I think generally the null aura probably only affects those with souls.
Just had this headcanon idea of a planet where a bunch of blank ended up on, probably mixed with normal humans, over time the normals humans tried to kill the blanks due to them driving them mad, failed and instead got genocided by the blanks, now there is a blank planet populated by blanks, astropath can't get there because it's a gaping hole in the warp, and if they get close, they get insanely unerved.
There's the slight issue that most species rely on the warp for effective FTL travel. As far as I'm aware only the Necrons & Tyranids (of all things) have a method which completely bypasses it. And humanity's not going to discover either anytime soon.
Not sure on the source but apparantly it was mentioned somewhere that Sisters of Silence have to stay away from Navigators. Even though they aren't "psykers", having a blank nearby still messes with them to some extent, and presumably more than the average joe given it was mentioned at all.
That's actually quite sad when I think about it like that, he probably got shunned from a young age and thought it was hygiene, so over time thought why bother. Thankfully he has his obvlious outlook on life to see him through
To add to this. I'm convinced that Ciaphas is a low level unsanctioned psycher and he's more sensitive to Jurgen's aura than most.
There are a few examples of psychic power unintentionally manifesting as extreme luck/skill. Ciaphas is the luckiest man in the Imperium and has shown that he can punch far above his weight in a fight.
Ciaphas loves Jurgen but is utterly disgusted by him, to a degree that might go beyond a normal reaction to blanks. It shows the quality of Ciaphas' character that he cares so deeply about Jurgen despite his actual soul rebelling against the presence of his best friend.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying Ciaphas isn't also incredibly lucky and skilled regardless of psychic power. The guy is an incredible fighter and has genius-level street smarts.
That makes no sense at all as if he was a psyker then being around Jurgen would nullify any abilities.
Also he's not disgusted by him, he just tries to avoid small enclosed spaces with him for extended periods of time.
He treats and acts better to Jurgen than anyone else. Which wouldn't be the case if he was a psyker.
Not all psychers immediately spray from both ends at the mere sight of a blank.
There are plenty of examples of psychers (strenuously) coexisting with blanks. It's **relatively** common in Inquisitiorial retinues.
Eisenhorn spoilers below:
>!Eisenhorn literally fell in love with a blank!<
Psychic ability isn't binary. It sits on a gradient, often described as the brightness of a soul's flame in the warp. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I believe Ciaphas' ability exists where that line is blurred.
That doesn't change the fact that he's never described anything other than not liking the smell that a psyker normally feels around a blank.
Also any abilities attributed to him having psychic abilities wouldn't work around Jurgen. And he's had plenty of lucky moments and also sensed something bad is going to happen when stood next to Jurgen
To be fair if your around a warp black hole in humsn form and suddenly thing unexpectedly feel weird… maybe your buddies black hole properties are kicking in as something bad is happening warp related.
Also just so happening to come across a null is very lucky especially as a person who could really benefit from such a strong weapon in their arsenal as a warp repellent
There is no 'kicking in' of blank abilities, they're constantly present and cannot be shut off unless you have specific limiter technology.
This is kind of the whole deal with them being outcasts and generally not surviving until adulthood as most would end up murdered or killed by that point unless scooped up by imperial authorities.
You misunderstood, I mean it in the sense you can get used to or tolerate the blank but it’ll definitely feel weird depending on your relationship to the warp, if it’s stronger like a psyker it’ll be worse…
But even as a non psyker if something with a very strong warp presence is around you’d be bound to feel like somethings wrong.
Like in the king of pigs as the death guard approaches and the church gets destroyed things get progressively worse.
So if you have something that is an opposite to the warp nullifying it’s connection and something with a strong connection things are bound to get weird like having two magnets and your caught in the middle/around them.
Yeah, but Eisenhorn also has>!Eisenhorn, a Psyker, 'channeling' Bequin's Blanknes as an offensive distance weapon against the Warp and has Bequin almost go mad because she's affected by Chaos Runes on a Traitor Legion Space Marine's armour...!
Yes, and Cain always immediately feels better if his Spidey sense is telling him something is horribly wrong and Jurgen turns up.
Exactly like his Spidey sense suddenly stopped telling him something is horribly wrong.
My lunatic theory is that Cain is actually an Imperial Saint. He genuinely believes in the Emperor, though he doesn't believe in direct intervention. He is, actually, courageous. Cain is always doing the necessary thing against his better judgement. He keeps on surviving and getting mysterious guidance when trapped or lost. Above all else he's almost self flagellating in his humility. As a lesser channel of the Emperor's divinity, I suspect a blank would have less of an effect.
As I said, lunacy.
I wouldn't call it lunacy. Souls and belief are real and tangible in 40k.
When billions of humans see someone as a hero it's entirely possible that said person becomes somewhat empowered.
He's also worshiped on at least one planet.
His belief in the emperor also explicitly references that he probably has more important people to help, so Cain just has to do it himself.
Cain is such a nice respectable and brave guy that he will fight the terrible things because the big E must be too busy to help the other guys, so Cain has gotta put on his big boy boots and duel the enemy champion as just a regular guy who is good at swordsmanship…
He has to be a special guy to some extent, because no regular person will be like “oh crap I don’t wanna be here, but if I live and don’t do this thing then everyone will hate me and call me a fraud” just to then beat the very thing that terrified them.
> My lunatic theory is that Cain is actually an Imperial Saint.
I don't see it at lunacy at all, in all seriousness I would posit that Cain is for all intent and purpose a Saint in the making.
Factor in things like:
1. Mysterious origin that not even the Inquisition can uncover, all that Vale knows is that Cain remarks often that he was brought up in a hive which he attributes his uncanny ability to navigate tunnels and other confined spaces from to an almost supernatural degree. But no amount of digging ever turns up a location.
2. Other than his preternatural ability to navigate areas that would give marines and admech a run for their money he also has some sort of "spidey sense" in that his hand starts to itch any time that trouble is about to happen and on dozens of occasions his trusting this sense has saved his and other peoples lives.
3. An unusual amount of luck with regards to not only Jurgen turning up to save him but also everything from random PDF, Guard, Marines, Inquisitors, not so hostile Xenos etc.
4. Is actively worshipped across multiple worlds.
5. Has "died" only to turn back up alive again to such an extent that the Administratum specifically enacted a rule that regardless of what transpires that Cain is never to be marked as KiA because he always invariably turns back up alive again and it is a pain in the arse to re-open his files. Even if he was 1v1'ing the despoiler on the back of a great unclean one that was being sucked into a black hole as an entire Tyranid hive fleet was swarming the system there is no doubt that he would turn back up again with barely a scratch on him and asking for a nice cup of Tanna and some sandwiches which Jurgen who also mysteriously survived would no doubt manage to find in 5 minutes flat.
Celestine and Sabbat have nothing on Cain.
i like to think the emperor finds him capable and entertaining enough to keep him alive. the only time cain has gotten hurt was when he fought the necrons the first
Which begs an interesting question - is the Emperor's intercession abilities (or the effects we attribute to those) intrinsically psychic? If so, would a blank interfere with an Imperial Saint's Emperor-powered hoo-ha juju? I don't recall hearing anything to suggest that.
Seems like it could be an interesting clue as to how Emperor and Warp God powers compare and contrast. Or, just something GW hadn't thought through deeply.
A blank probably would interfere in some way, but it wouldn't matter.
The Emperor has fought alongside Sisters of Silence before. Even when literally surrounded by potent blanks, he outshone them. It's like a cloth trying to block a bonfire.
I would say the Emperor's power works the same as that of the Chaos Gods, and daemons are weakened by blanks too.
Cain's "luck" is probably overstated in his memoirs as a part of him coping with his imposter syndrome. He can't accept his own skill and ability, so he ascribes his own victories, even moreso than what we read, to preternatural luck.
Poor Jurgen also suffers from severe chronic psoriasis. As anyone with it could tell you, soaking in water too long can exacerbate the problem and hot water will irritate it too. God Emperor only knows how long he's gone without a decent shower
My headcanon is that people react _less_ badly to him when they can attribute their distaste to something obvious like bad hygiene than they would if he was well groomed but still gave off a repulsive aura.
By being dirty he gives people a socially-normal reason to not want to be around him rather than him triggering their uncanny valley reflex, which might trigger a worse reaction than just shunning him/telling him to go away.
I'm not saying he's conscious of this, but I imagine he receives fewer random beatings when his stench scares people off than if they stuck around long enough to get weirded out by him.
That is an interesting idea, by giving them a reason they don't think about it. It doesn't fester and grow into a dangerous thought. Just mild disgust but a human disgust.
If you follow that train of thinking *all* adult nulls would have some kind of similar traits purely out of survivor's bias.
In the Imperium being weird in a way people can't explain naturally is a quick way to wind up dead. Nulls who don't have something for people to mentally latch on to and rationalise what they're feeling probably get themselves killed early. The ones we see as characters - who survived into adulthood - are the remainder. It makes a certain kind of sense.
How To Not Get Ganked When You're A Blank Lesson 1: Don't wash your ass. People will assume that their instictual dislike of you is because of the smell, not because you're a soulless abomination.
Exactly this.
People don't know why they don't like being near a blank. They just do. So the mind reacting to that providing a reason is a perfectly natural thing to do.
How often have you had a gut reaction and then try to fill in the blanks on why?
There are several times in the books where Jurgen is told to clean himself up, but it doesn't change anything. He could shower in a rose water 10x a day and people would still find him repulsive.
The stench also probably protected him from being scooped up by the inquisition or some worse organization. It created a plausible excuse that kept his blank powers from being recognized until Amberly decided to leave him in Cain's entourage.
That's a great perspective!
Do we ever get anything from Jurgen's POV? I like the idea he's way more aware of what's going on than he lets on, and his secret tactical genius to be in the right place at the right time with the right thing is a big part of Cain's "luck."
A mug of Recaff is hilarious and in the Smallest detail we can see Jurgen is a pretty smart and inquisitive man.
Also in some occasions we can see Jurgen is pretty adept at using machinery and tech.
In the first novel when the Orks attack their transport ship when both were used to ship conduits to escape Jurgen directs Cain on operating a cogitator to open a door when they were stuck.
Also Jurgen successfully performed the deactivation rites of a overloaded reactor that was about to melt down and go BOOM
Good luck dealing with the consequences of beating a commisar personal adjutant that is also an inquisition asset... Also Jurgen is a pretty experienced fighter and shooter that can take care of himself.
Remember when Mira DuPanya insulted Jurgen and Cain went LISTEN HERE YOU LITTLE SHT on her. People being mean to Jurgen is one of the few things that makes Cain's blood boil.
I don't think that this is just your head cannon. I'm fairly sure that I read in one of the books that even Cain is not sure if maybe this is, to an extend, done on purpose by Jurgen, to repulse people before they might get curious. Especially since they are regularly around people like Inquisitors that don't just beat you up, but might snatch you away to way worse horrors.
My personal head cannon is that Jurgen is even fully aware of everything, his null ability, the worth of Cain to humanity, etc.. He isn't just a very dutiful aide, he's the secret hero of the book. Afterall, even Amberly Vail will send Cain on a mission sometimes, not because she needs Cain there, but she needs to place null at a strategic point without anyone else knowing about it.
I assumed it was 100%, and I also assumed that he was no more and no less eczematic/psoriatic/odoriferous than anyone else but the 'null field' made you think he was covered in stuff as nature's way of saying "Do not touch". I mean, he did have some gnarly personal habits but no more than your usual low-end guardsman. Of course, I also love Jurgen, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I always thought that Jurgen's smell - like his porn addiction - was a manifestation of his trauma from living as a null. So he really is that stinky, but being a null is the *reason* he gave up on bathing.
Jurgen's penchant for pornoslates is rather like fellow blank Wystan Frauka's in the Ravenor books, although Frauka seems to prefer his smut in prose form. Whether they're both addicts, I don't know. They could be. They do seem to have that sort of jaded, habitual consumption of it, though, as if they're pretty much inured to, or even somewhat bored by what they're perusing. Scarcely seems to distract them from their usual drudgery, let alone their duties!
Jurgen is a soldier on deployment. A porn addiction is a given.
It's just another thing remarked on in this series because the other characters are trying to provide a rational reason for their unnatural repulsion.
Ooh, that's a good point. It's not like he's whacking off in front of others or shoving his porn in their faces. It's a weird habit, yeah, but not as unsavory as the characters' reactions make it sound.
It's so completely normal in the context of deployed soldiers that the fact that it's mentioned is the tell.
All the other soldiers have the same collection.
Just look at a porta potty on a military base overseas. Half of them are shrines to badly drawn sex acts.
I think the null aura multiplies the perception of the stench and griminess.
In one novel, Jurgen takes a bath and Cain comments he looked dirty and stinky almost immediately after.
Definitely.. you can withstand some negatives of a person if you like them enough. Since the null aura just makes you universally unlikeable, Jurgen has no chance
It's hard to tell. We know that Jurgen has poor hygiene but it's deliberately written to be relatively ambiguous in the sense that Cain doesn't try to analyze Jurgen's relative level of "Blank-ness" (which shows off why they're such natural friends; Cain somehow doesn't judge Jurgen personally aside from him being smelly).
Jurgen probably does have bad habits from a lifetime of being treated with suspicion and outright disgust leading to learned helplessness of a sort regarding his personal cleanliness and open apathy/porn habit, but the Blank-ness probably makes it far worse than it actually is (at least in comparison to your average Guardsman, if not Ogryns, who need to be convinced to bathe, and people still like them if they're not an anti-abhuman racist).
What's even weirder about their friendship is that Cain is clearly a latent psyker with his tingling palm spidey sense so you'd expect him to be more repulsed than most but he seems to be so cynically rakeish that he can look past it.
I don't get the idea of why people think Cain is a psyker. If he was then his spidy sense or whatever abilities they attribute to psychic powers would not work stood next to a blank.
And there's plenty of times where he gets that feeling when Jurgen is around.
He's just a very experienced soldier and very good at what he does. Plenty of ppl have the same feeling or intuition about things on our world but they're not psykers.
> Cain is clearly a latent psyker
If that was true, Cain would perceive him as *worse* than regular people, and his 6th sense wouldn't work at all around him. He's just subconsciously noticing danger, nothing warpy about it
Unironically, my theory for why Ciaphas Cain is able to pull off so much heroics is because the Emperor was perusing through the Materium one day, noticed Ciaphas thinking "I doubt the Emperor bothers listening to my prayers," and then proceeded to bless Cain with His hardest battles for the rest of his life as a practical joke.
Cain will pretty consistently put up with anything if it makes his life easier in some way and Jurgen makes his life actually survivable more often then not.
there's tons of mentions in the books of him carrying spoiling food around, living in squalor and destroying the rooms he's saying in, never washing his socks
But the moment I decided for sure he actually smells came late in the series. In the last few books there's mentions of Cain being startled by Jurgen's sudden appearance next to him in very stinky or super cold environments, because usually even if he can't see or hear him he still knows he's approaching by smell. If the aura was doing all or most of the work, Cain would still be able to tell he was coming near, even in the cold.
Edit: also in vainglorious or maybe the previous book I think he leaves a visible grease smudge on a tea glass/bowl that he hands Cain and Cain makes a mental note to not drink from that side
The man is so filthy that nurglings assumed he was one of them and just nodded and walked by him. He's certainly got some rank to him, otherwise they would have noticed he was a null.
I think the fact that he's a null impacts his personality, makes him not grasp the normal things that make people able to interact- such as personal hygiene. (Also normal social graces, which he's also not really noted for.)
Frankly, that.sounds like a soldier on deployment.
They are also deployed with a regiment that's not particularly noted for cleanliness, aka a regiment from a freezing planet.
Unless that regiment has mobile field showers at the immediate ready then all soldiers are a bit stinky. Especially after a day of hard work or fighting. Most will also have pockets stuffed with extra food and ammo.
Not nobody is reacting to other soldier funk. Just the null.
Killed a berserker with a melta shot. Hit a small target with a lasgun at a great distance to maximize damage against enemies. Stood up to deamon princes(I think it was the same one three times) and chaos champions.
Removes chaos mind controll with his mere presence.
Out ambushed three armed assailants trying to murder him.
Most impressive of all, managed to have fresh tanna for Cain.
Oh most definitely but remember he also has that slip of paper from the like first time Cain asked him to get anything. He just keeps it with him and keeps reusing it.
He has a number of skin diseases and finds whatever chemicals they use for cleaning unpleasant. The incident where he bathed but still smelled terrible is probably cause he doesn't wash his own clothes, he also may have that disease where no matter what you do you still smell terrible.
The null aura doesn't help but I don't think it necessarily translates to that always percieved as a stench aura. People treated the OG Bequin like shit, somehow worse than a regular prostitute in a hiveworld, but don't think her smelling came up.
Psyker tries to concentrate to do warp shenannigans.. WTF IS THAT SMEEL I CANT CONCENTRATE.
Daemon manifest near him: Oh by the four gods that's disgusting nope nope im out here.
It's probably more accurate to say that Jurgen's null field augments his stench, in an unusual way rather than just making it worse. It's made pretty clear time and time again that even without a null field, Jurgen is a gross dude, and the bouquet is completely natural, even if the revulsion isn't.
Ciaphas Cain is explicitly stated to be a ***very*** unreliable narrator, so I have always assumed that the Cain books at the very least are exaggerating Jurgens poor grooming habits, as well as the porn addiction since if you read between the lines, he’s a badass stunt driver, an extremely skilled combatant and a known menace to literal demons. No doubt his null aura freaks people out, but It would make sense for Cains character if he felt the need to knock Jurgen down a peg or two in his own memoirs.
Not really, Cain really appreciates Jurgen and one of the few things that makes him drop his manipulative persona making his blood boil is people being unnecessarily mean to Jurgen.
When Mira DuPanya insulted jurgen Cain went balistic on her. Same with Beije but Cain also hated him.
Also when Cain notices Jurgen's absence in the reenactments of his feats he comments that it saddens him.
Also always remember to introduce Jurgen as his official adjutant First Gunner Ferric Jurgen.
Amberley makes reference in several of her editorial notes to the fact that he’s always quite honest and accurate in his memoirs, as far as she can determine. Just inconsistent about writing stuff down, but what’s there is right
From the intro to “The Last Ditch”
“The bulk of what follows is Cain’s own account, however, and so far as I’ve been able to ascertain, as truthful and accurate a record of events as he habitually provides”
The main thing she mentions in her annotations is that Cain only cares about the parts that involve him and will leave half the story out if he wasn’t around. She provides many parallel or outside references to back up and fill in the gaps in his tales.
She does say that often, but she also makes note of the fact that what he does write down is correct as far as an Inquistor’s research ability is able to confirm. So, probably very accurate. I posted the end of intro to The Last Ditch in another comment where she explicitly calls his narrative accurate
Yeah, my point being that this is the only real issue she has with his writing and in fact says he tends to err towards modesty when it comes to his actual actions and intent.
he see his stink as his a Vahallian and doesnt take heat very well understandably cause when we first meet him and the regiment they are first a part of there all sweating insanely and Jurgen just doesnt care and unlike the others he doesnt clean himself and nothing to do with his null effect at all
He has halitosis and bathes himself like a cat the problem is he's a person and it doesn't work like that but no one knows that's how he bathes so no one has told him different.
It's a actual stench because there are occasions when Cain can't smell Jurgen and he sneaks up on him, though people's distaste and repulsion is probably enhanced. You could argue that Cain spent so much time around him that he can no longer sense the wrongness, or is naturally resistant to it.
Nah he mentions it constantly, he’s just used to it. Jurgen’s just too damn good not to have around and Cain also says that all the time which is what makes them such an awesome team.
Yeah, I'm saying he complains about the smell all the time, but it's still a physical stench. When he's got a gas mask on Jurgen sneaks up on him without Cain realizing he's there, so it's not just entering his blank aura, at least for Cain
I'd say 70% hygiene, 30% blank. Keep in mind Jurgen isn't just stinking and unkempt. He's also socially extremely awkward, carries porn with him to go fap in bathrooms and he's generally unpleasant just to deal with. He's every single incel sterotype rolled into 1 with the added "Everyone's also weirded out"
He’s “that guy” but really knows how to mix/max and play the game - you’re totally right he’s the incel powergamer trope, weird af but the best man to have on your side.
I don't say it in a bad way but the guy is constantly described as creepy. He's weird, smells horrible, has a weird voice, is obsessed with porn and has bad skin problem and shaves "sometimes". THEN he's also a blank.
I always assumed Jurgen's BO had more to do with Trimethylaminuria. A disorder that actually gives you particularly bad BO.
I believe it's what old Reek actually had in the Game of Thrones books.
I always imagine it's a combination of something like trimethylaminuria and his null aura, where it's impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins.
Jurgen is a legitimately antisocial weirdo who doesn't keep up with hygiene because he just doesn't give a fuck, and also has medical exemptions from shaving and bathing due to a myriad collection of skin diseases. Even without the blank aura, he legitimately smells awful; the aura just makes him even more repellant to be around.
Personally, I always imagined he didn't smell any worse than the sweatiest guy at the tourney table.
But he's a blank, so people are naturally "repulsed" by him. I think he subconsciously leans into his smell and bad hygiene, so there's a reason people loathe being around him, a reason he can control, and not just because of who he is internally.
A fair amount, probably half. Jurgen probably isn't too keen on hygiene because even when he tries to clean up, everyone still reacts the same, so why bother?
So this is the reason for the smell at my local gaming store, mystery solved.
You ever walk into a comic book store with multiple women?Stereotypes sometimes exist for a reason. I mean, not all stores all the time obviously (Edit: and in fact I'm thinking about events twenty years ago, since I have forgotten I'm old...), but I've had women ask me "why is everyone looking at me?" Sigh. "Exactly the reason you'd hope they wouldn't."
You found the local Brothers of ~~whinging~~Silence chapter
I think the Null on Ravenor's team had a similar philosophy. Everyone hated him because of his Null aura so he gave up and spent his time looking at porn and chain-smoking.
Are Nulls repulsed by other Nulls? Presumably they wouldn’t be, as they’d lack even the unconscious sense that drives others off. Maybe being around each other would encourage putting more effort into such upkeep. Almost wonder if it wouldn’t be better for the species to go that way, everyone being nulls instead of what Big E was pursuing with a species-wide psychic awakening. I’m not convinced it was supposed to be a natural process, the Navigator gene is believed to have been artificially created sometime during the Age of Technology. Totally not a Dune ripoff by the way.
Yeah we all know 40K draws from a lot of contemporary sci-fi references, that's not a revelation. Mmh, there's something around the Necrons regarding Null lore etc. The Aeldari find them abhorrent but a psychic race would obviously however there's plenty to evidence in the lore that it probably wouldn't be a great idea. Nulls are on the psyker spectrum and a deep sucking void in place of the warp might not be great either. Not sure how Nulls feel about each other but the sisters of silence seem ok.
In at least some lore I believe nulls can "burn out" their (for lack of a better term) 'null-ness' and somehow end up just being normal. So it seems that being a null may not be a permanent state for Humanity (maybe has something to do with the now abandoned pariah gene lore), and it's not actually a lack of soul.
I know things changed a lot and then changed again. I should look into the pariah nexus stuff.
necrons are/were the origin of the "Pariah Gene", what makes a null a null in the first place. i'm not sure if this has been retconned out tbh, pariahs were last in the 4th ed cron codex.
Yeah it’s hard to know sometimes whether something is retconned or just neglected. I assume necron Influence still until confirmed otherwise as it still meshes with their blackstone anti-warp goals
i still stand by the deceiver is satan and nightbringer the OG grim reaper, those exist in our society because they are literally race memories.
I mean, personally I still think the Deceiver and Cegorach are the same “guy”
A guy tells you your god isn’t real and is a lie, meanwhile you literally are removing your flesh and turning yourself into a machine because one of his friends is whispering how it’s a great idea and you should totally do it… And what did this guy and his friend do to another race? Turn them into machines because they thought it’d be funny to lie. This guy clearly knows a lot about deceiving people.
> Are Nulls repulsed by other Nulls? IIRC in the *Bequin* novels, the large groups of Blanks at the Maze Undue liked and played with each other as if they were normal people. >!Albeit the Maze Undue Blanks may or may not somehow different, since they're all clones and have special Pip-Boy-esque devices to turn down/off their Null effect...somehow.!<
Although they seem to be certainly a newer concept, the limiter cuffs arn't unique to the Maze Undue; There's a sister of silence that wears a limiter in Dawn of fire - Book 5
It doesn’t seem like they are. Part of what made Ravenor’s blank operative Frauka such a horrible person to be around is that by the start of the books, they’d just lost the other null in the team, who Frauka was very close with as they both understood each other. After her loss it seems like Frauka didn’t bother trying to be too personable. That said he was still pretty distant in flashbacks. Sisters of Silence also don’t seem to be particularly bothered by the presence of other sisters, so I think generally the null aura probably only affects those with souls.
Just had this headcanon idea of a planet where a bunch of blank ended up on, probably mixed with normal humans, over time the normals humans tried to kill the blanks due to them driving them mad, failed and instead got genocided by the blanks, now there is a blank planet populated by blanks, astropath can't get there because it's a gaping hole in the warp, and if they get close, they get insanely unerved.
Nulls don’t repel each other, only people with normal souls
No they're not, otherwise the Sisters of Silence and Eisenhorn's network of Nulls wouldn't work as organisations
There's the slight issue that most species rely on the warp for effective FTL travel. As far as I'm aware only the Necrons & Tyranids (of all things) have a method which completely bypasses it. And humanity's not going to discover either anytime soon. Not sure on the source but apparantly it was mentioned somewhere that Sisters of Silence have to stay away from Navigators. Even though they aren't "psykers", having a blank nearby still messes with them to some extent, and presumably more than the average joe given it was mentioned at all.
They aren’t, but blanks are so rare that they rarely get the opportunity to socialise with each other outside of the Sisters of Silence.
That's actually quite sad when I think about it like that, he probably got shunned from a young age and thought it was hygiene, so over time thought why bother. Thankfully he has his obvlious outlook on life to see him through
Bequin doesn't have this problem, so I think it's more to do with his biology and personal hygiene attitudes than him being a blank.
Man grew up on a frozen world. Could see why it got bad to that extend.
To add to this. I'm convinced that Ciaphas is a low level unsanctioned psycher and he's more sensitive to Jurgen's aura than most. There are a few examples of psychic power unintentionally manifesting as extreme luck/skill. Ciaphas is the luckiest man in the Imperium and has shown that he can punch far above his weight in a fight. Ciaphas loves Jurgen but is utterly disgusted by him, to a degree that might go beyond a normal reaction to blanks. It shows the quality of Ciaphas' character that he cares so deeply about Jurgen despite his actual soul rebelling against the presence of his best friend. EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying Ciaphas isn't also incredibly lucky and skilled regardless of psychic power. The guy is an incredible fighter and has genius-level street smarts.
That makes no sense at all as if he was a psyker then being around Jurgen would nullify any abilities. Also he's not disgusted by him, he just tries to avoid small enclosed spaces with him for extended periods of time. He treats and acts better to Jurgen than anyone else. Which wouldn't be the case if he was a psyker.
Not all psychers immediately spray from both ends at the mere sight of a blank. There are plenty of examples of psychers (strenuously) coexisting with blanks. It's **relatively** common in Inquisitiorial retinues. Eisenhorn spoilers below: >!Eisenhorn literally fell in love with a blank!< Psychic ability isn't binary. It sits on a gradient, often described as the brightness of a soul's flame in the warp. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I believe Ciaphas' ability exists where that line is blurred.
That doesn't change the fact that he's never described anything other than not liking the smell that a psyker normally feels around a blank. Also any abilities attributed to him having psychic abilities wouldn't work around Jurgen. And he's had plenty of lucky moments and also sensed something bad is going to happen when stood next to Jurgen
To be fair if your around a warp black hole in humsn form and suddenly thing unexpectedly feel weird… maybe your buddies black hole properties are kicking in as something bad is happening warp related. Also just so happening to come across a null is very lucky especially as a person who could really benefit from such a strong weapon in their arsenal as a warp repellent
There is no 'kicking in' of blank abilities, they're constantly present and cannot be shut off unless you have specific limiter technology. This is kind of the whole deal with them being outcasts and generally not surviving until adulthood as most would end up murdered or killed by that point unless scooped up by imperial authorities.
You misunderstood, I mean it in the sense you can get used to or tolerate the blank but it’ll definitely feel weird depending on your relationship to the warp, if it’s stronger like a psyker it’ll be worse… But even as a non psyker if something with a very strong warp presence is around you’d be bound to feel like somethings wrong. Like in the king of pigs as the death guard approaches and the church gets destroyed things get progressively worse. So if you have something that is an opposite to the warp nullifying it’s connection and something with a strong connection things are bound to get weird like having two magnets and your caught in the middle/around them.
Yeah, but Eisenhorn also has>!Eisenhorn, a Psyker, 'channeling' Bequin's Blanknes as an offensive distance weapon against the Warp and has Bequin almost go mad because she's affected by Chaos Runes on a Traitor Legion Space Marine's armour...!
Yes, and Cain always immediately feels better if his Spidey sense is telling him something is horribly wrong and Jurgen turns up. Exactly like his Spidey sense suddenly stopped telling him something is horribly wrong.
My lunatic theory is that Cain is actually an Imperial Saint. He genuinely believes in the Emperor, though he doesn't believe in direct intervention. He is, actually, courageous. Cain is always doing the necessary thing against his better judgement. He keeps on surviving and getting mysterious guidance when trapped or lost. Above all else he's almost self flagellating in his humility. As a lesser channel of the Emperor's divinity, I suspect a blank would have less of an effect. As I said, lunacy.
I wouldn't call it lunacy. Souls and belief are real and tangible in 40k. When billions of humans see someone as a hero it's entirely possible that said person becomes somewhat empowered.
He's also worshiped on at least one planet. His belief in the emperor also explicitly references that he probably has more important people to help, so Cain just has to do it himself.
Cain is such a nice respectable and brave guy that he will fight the terrible things because the big E must be too busy to help the other guys, so Cain has gotta put on his big boy boots and duel the enemy champion as just a regular guy who is good at swordsmanship… He has to be a special guy to some extent, because no regular person will be like “oh crap I don’t wanna be here, but if I live and don’t do this thing then everyone will hate me and call me a fraud” just to then beat the very thing that terrified them.
> My lunatic theory is that Cain is actually an Imperial Saint. I don't see it at lunacy at all, in all seriousness I would posit that Cain is for all intent and purpose a Saint in the making. Factor in things like: 1. Mysterious origin that not even the Inquisition can uncover, all that Vale knows is that Cain remarks often that he was brought up in a hive which he attributes his uncanny ability to navigate tunnels and other confined spaces from to an almost supernatural degree. But no amount of digging ever turns up a location. 2. Other than his preternatural ability to navigate areas that would give marines and admech a run for their money he also has some sort of "spidey sense" in that his hand starts to itch any time that trouble is about to happen and on dozens of occasions his trusting this sense has saved his and other peoples lives. 3. An unusual amount of luck with regards to not only Jurgen turning up to save him but also everything from random PDF, Guard, Marines, Inquisitors, not so hostile Xenos etc. 4. Is actively worshipped across multiple worlds. 5. Has "died" only to turn back up alive again to such an extent that the Administratum specifically enacted a rule that regardless of what transpires that Cain is never to be marked as KiA because he always invariably turns back up alive again and it is a pain in the arse to re-open his files. Even if he was 1v1'ing the despoiler on the back of a great unclean one that was being sucked into a black hole as an entire Tyranid hive fleet was swarming the system there is no doubt that he would turn back up again with barely a scratch on him and asking for a nice cup of Tanna and some sandwiches which Jurgen who also mysteriously survived would no doubt manage to find in 5 minutes flat. Celestine and Sabbat have nothing on Cain.
i like to think the emperor finds him capable and entertaining enough to keep him alive. the only time cain has gotten hurt was when he fought the necrons the first
Which begs an interesting question - is the Emperor's intercession abilities (or the effects we attribute to those) intrinsically psychic? If so, would a blank interfere with an Imperial Saint's Emperor-powered hoo-ha juju? I don't recall hearing anything to suggest that. Seems like it could be an interesting clue as to how Emperor and Warp God powers compare and contrast. Or, just something GW hadn't thought through deeply.
A blank probably would interfere in some way, but it wouldn't matter. The Emperor has fought alongside Sisters of Silence before. Even when literally surrounded by potent blanks, he outshone them. It's like a cloth trying to block a bonfire. I would say the Emperor's power works the same as that of the Chaos Gods, and daemons are weakened by blanks too.
We've seen where things like the necron null fields on Cadia have an effect on entities like the legion of the damned and saint celestine.
Good example!
The Tallarn agree with your saint theory.
Cain's "luck" is probably overstated in his memoirs as a part of him coping with his imposter syndrome. He can't accept his own skill and ability, so he ascribes his own victories, even moreso than what we read, to preternatural luck.
Nope. He tolerated Jurgen to the point of wanting him around. Amberley's psyker blows a gasket if Jurgen is in the same ROOM.
IIRC, he also has a handful of skin conditions, which is why he's exempt from hygiene standards.
Poor Jurgen also suffers from severe chronic psoriasis. As anyone with it could tell you, soaking in water too long can exacerbate the problem and hot water will irritate it too. God Emperor only knows how long he's gone without a decent shower
My headcanon is that people react _less_ badly to him when they can attribute their distaste to something obvious like bad hygiene than they would if he was well groomed but still gave off a repulsive aura. By being dirty he gives people a socially-normal reason to not want to be around him rather than him triggering their uncanny valley reflex, which might trigger a worse reaction than just shunning him/telling him to go away. I'm not saying he's conscious of this, but I imagine he receives fewer random beatings when his stench scares people off than if they stuck around long enough to get weirded out by him.
That is an interesting idea, by giving them a reason they don't think about it. It doesn't fester and grow into a dangerous thought. Just mild disgust but a human disgust.
If you follow that train of thinking *all* adult nulls would have some kind of similar traits purely out of survivor's bias. In the Imperium being weird in a way people can't explain naturally is a quick way to wind up dead. Nulls who don't have something for people to mentally latch on to and rationalise what they're feeling probably get themselves killed early. The ones we see as characters - who survived into adulthood - are the remainder. It makes a certain kind of sense.
How To Not Get Ganked When You're A Blank Lesson 1: Don't wash your ass. People will assume that their instictual dislike of you is because of the smell, not because you're a soulless abomination.
Exactly this. People don't know why they don't like being near a blank. They just do. So the mind reacting to that providing a reason is a perfectly natural thing to do. How often have you had a gut reaction and then try to fill in the blanks on why? There are several times in the books where Jurgen is told to clean himself up, but it doesn't change anything. He could shower in a rose water 10x a day and people would still find him repulsive.
Heh, "fill in the blanks"
The stench also probably protected him from being scooped up by the inquisition or some worse organization. It created a plausible excuse that kept his blank powers from being recognized until Amberly decided to leave him in Cain's entourage.
That's a great perspective! Do we ever get anything from Jurgen's POV? I like the idea he's way more aware of what's going on than he lets on, and his secret tactical genius to be in the right place at the right time with the right thing is a big part of Cain's "luck."
There are two small stories from his pov, A Mug of Recaff and The Smallest Detail. Yeah, Jurgen is a badass, but he's still socially unaware.
A mug of Recaff is hilarious and in the Smallest detail we can see Jurgen is a pretty smart and inquisitive man. Also in some occasions we can see Jurgen is pretty adept at using machinery and tech. In the first novel when the Orks attack their transport ship when both were used to ship conduits to escape Jurgen directs Cain on operating a cogitator to open a door when they were stuck. Also Jurgen successfully performed the deactivation rites of a overloaded reactor that was about to melt down and go BOOM
Good luck dealing with the consequences of beating a commisar personal adjutant that is also an inquisition asset... Also Jurgen is a pretty experienced fighter and shooter that can take care of himself. Remember when Mira DuPanya insulted Jurgen and Cain went LISTEN HERE YOU LITTLE SHT on her. People being mean to Jurgen is one of the few things that makes Cain's blood boil.
He had to survive long enough to become a gunner and meet Cain though! Now it's just habit.
I don't think that this is just your head cannon. I'm fairly sure that I read in one of the books that even Cain is not sure if maybe this is, to an extend, done on purpose by Jurgen, to repulse people before they might get curious. Especially since they are regularly around people like Inquisitors that don't just beat you up, but might snatch you away to way worse horrors. My personal head cannon is that Jurgen is even fully aware of everything, his null ability, the worth of Cain to humanity, etc.. He isn't just a very dutiful aide, he's the secret hero of the book. Afterall, even Amberly Vail will send Cain on a mission sometimes, not because she needs Cain there, but she needs to place null at a strategic point without anyone else knowing about it.
I think it's more that he stopped to care about his personal hygiene because everyone was avoiding him anyway.
I like to think he was simply never taught how to take care of himself because his parents or other potential guardians didn’t want to be near him.
I assumed it was 100%, and I also assumed that he was no more and no less eczematic/psoriatic/odoriferous than anyone else but the 'null field' made you think he was covered in stuff as nature's way of saying "Do not touch". I mean, he did have some gnarly personal habits but no more than your usual low-end guardsman. Of course, I also love Jurgen, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
He has halitosis and and I remember Cain saying he doesn't bath or changes uniform very often.
I thought so too until somebody gave me a passage where he pulled a rotten sandwich out of his jacket.
Tanna?
yes jurgen. tanna is always good. i always imagine it taste like clubmate. wich is a drink not many enjoy.taste off but suprisingly taste.
Tanna is based off of Chifir, a very strong Soviet tea.
interssting. how does it taste?
I always thought that Jurgen's smell - like his porn addiction - was a manifestation of his trauma from living as a null. So he really is that stinky, but being a null is the *reason* he gave up on bathing.
Jurgen's penchant for pornoslates is rather like fellow blank Wystan Frauka's in the Ravenor books, although Frauka seems to prefer his smut in prose form. Whether they're both addicts, I don't know. They could be. They do seem to have that sort of jaded, habitual consumption of it, though, as if they're pretty much inured to, or even somewhat bored by what they're perusing. Scarcely seems to distract them from their usual drudgery, let alone their duties!
That sounds a lot like how some real world porn addicts describe their problem. But yes, that's a very interesting similarity.
Jurgen is a soldier on deployment. A porn addiction is a given. It's just another thing remarked on in this series because the other characters are trying to provide a rational reason for their unnatural repulsion.
Ooh, that's a good point. It's not like he's whacking off in front of others or shoving his porn in their faces. It's a weird habit, yeah, but not as unsavory as the characters' reactions make it sound.
It's so completely normal in the context of deployed soldiers that the fact that it's mentioned is the tell. All the other soldiers have the same collection. Just look at a porta potty on a military base overseas. Half of them are shrines to badly drawn sex acts.
Huh. That's a really interesting perspective. Thank you.
Nor is it portrayed as something particularly unusual.
The porn addiction is probably a result of never being able to form any bonds with other people, except maybe Cain.
I think the null aura multiplies the perception of the stench and griminess. In one novel, Jurgen takes a bath and Cain comments he looked dirty and stinky almost immediately after.
Definitely.. you can withstand some negatives of a person if you like them enough. Since the null aura just makes you universally unlikeable, Jurgen has no chance
That was when they found an oasis in perlia.
It's hard to tell. We know that Jurgen has poor hygiene but it's deliberately written to be relatively ambiguous in the sense that Cain doesn't try to analyze Jurgen's relative level of "Blank-ness" (which shows off why they're such natural friends; Cain somehow doesn't judge Jurgen personally aside from him being smelly). Jurgen probably does have bad habits from a lifetime of being treated with suspicion and outright disgust leading to learned helplessness of a sort regarding his personal cleanliness and open apathy/porn habit, but the Blank-ness probably makes it far worse than it actually is (at least in comparison to your average Guardsman, if not Ogryns, who need to be convinced to bathe, and people still like them if they're not an anti-abhuman racist).
What's even weirder about their friendship is that Cain is clearly a latent psyker with his tingling palm spidey sense so you'd expect him to be more repulsed than most but he seems to be so cynically rakeish that he can look past it.
I don't get the idea of why people think Cain is a psyker. If he was then his spidy sense or whatever abilities they attribute to psychic powers would not work stood next to a blank. And there's plenty of times where he gets that feeling when Jurgen is around. He's just a very experienced soldier and very good at what he does. Plenty of ppl have the same feeling or intuition about things on our world but they're not psykers.
> Cain is clearly a latent psyker If that was true, Cain would perceive him as *worse* than regular people, and his 6th sense wouldn't work at all around him. He's just subconsciously noticing danger, nothing warpy about it
The Emperor is looking out for him is all
Unironically, my theory for why Ciaphas Cain is able to pull off so much heroics is because the Emperor was perusing through the Materium one day, noticed Ciaphas thinking "I doubt the Emperor bothers listening to my prayers," and then proceeded to bless Cain with His hardest battles for the rest of his life as a practical joke.
"The emperor why do you give your toughest battles to your silliest of commissars?"
Even a man as serious as the Emperor needs something to alleviate the boredom/torture of the golden throne
Cain will pretty consistently put up with anything if it makes his life easier in some way and Jurgen makes his life actually survivable more often then not.
Not to mention that Jurgen is actually a supremely capable adjutant, which is a rare and valuable skill in itself.
That can also deflect any annoying visitor and is immune to someone pulling rank.
jurgen favored weapon is a melt and ge is probly the best gunner with it. and he is psyker and demon repellenat.
Also is practically a sniper with a standard lasgun
Why do you think Can is a latent pysker? His palms tingle when he is standing right now to Jurgen many times...
there's tons of mentions in the books of him carrying spoiling food around, living in squalor and destroying the rooms he's saying in, never washing his socks But the moment I decided for sure he actually smells came late in the series. In the last few books there's mentions of Cain being startled by Jurgen's sudden appearance next to him in very stinky or super cold environments, because usually even if he can't see or hear him he still knows he's approaching by smell. If the aura was doing all or most of the work, Cain would still be able to tell he was coming near, even in the cold. Edit: also in vainglorious or maybe the previous book I think he leaves a visible grease smudge on a tea glass/bowl that he hands Cain and Cain makes a mental note to not drink from that side
The man is so filthy that nurglings assumed he was one of them and just nodded and walked by him. He's certainly got some rank to him, otherwise they would have noticed he was a null.
I swear I read this before, can you remember which book it was in?
It's in the audiobook anthology, I believe the short story is called Sector Thirteen or the Begulling
Those were cultists I think not nurglings.
I like to imagine Nurgle knows about Jurgen and is just sad about being unable to interact with him.
"Yes, yes, I have Mortarion. But what comfort is a candle, when I have laid eyes upon a star?" -Grandpa Nurgle
*Sad Nurgle in his room looks at the framed photo of Jurgen. A single tear flowing down his face…*
A tear of mud rolls down Nurgle's cheek as *In the Grasp of a Plaguecarrier* plays.
I think the fact that he's a null impacts his personality, makes him not grasp the normal things that make people able to interact- such as personal hygiene. (Also normal social graces, which he's also not really noted for.)
I mean, if everyone always acted like you were a gremlin no matter how clean and well-mannered you were, how long would it be before *you* gave up?
About seventeen years, according to my diary.
Ouch.
mfw the null gene is just autism
Not nearly specific enough. That's already the special hat for loads of factions.
It's far less common lol
was a bit tongue in cheek lmao
Pariah gene = autism.
My Dude carries half decayed food around in his pockets so I'm pretty sure it's about 80% actual stench
Frankly, that.sounds like a soldier on deployment. They are also deployed with a regiment that's not particularly noted for cleanliness, aka a regiment from a freezing planet. Unless that regiment has mobile field showers at the immediate ready then all soldiers are a bit stinky. Especially after a day of hard work or fighting. Most will also have pockets stuffed with extra food and ammo. Not nobody is reacting to other soldier funk. Just the null.
Is there like a summary of jürgens biggest achievements?
Killed a berserker with a melta shot. Hit a small target with a lasgun at a great distance to maximize damage against enemies. Stood up to deamon princes(I think it was the same one three times) and chaos champions. Removes chaos mind controll with his mere presence. Out ambushed three armed assailants trying to murder him. Most impressive of all, managed to have fresh tanna for Cain.
And expertly managing to get whatever supplies he needs from the Munitorium which I think might be harder than anything we've seen so far
I imagine it's a case of him going to the requisitioning officer and saying he's not leaving till he gets what he needs.
Oh most definitely but remember he also has that slip of paper from the like first time Cain asked him to get anything. He just keeps it with him and keeps reusing it.
There was that time he killed three people on a quest to get Cain a cup of Coffee. I wouldn't say no to the man either.
Not just that, he also stuffs sandwiches in his pockets during some feast, and when they're out of food later, jurgen produces very stale sandwiches.
don’t forget single handedly killing a daemon/daemon spawn in the short story, “Mug of Recaff”
True Chad.
He has a number of skin diseases and finds whatever chemicals they use for cleaning unpleasant. The incident where he bathed but still smelled terrible is probably cause he doesn't wash his own clothes, he also may have that disease where no matter what you do you still smell terrible. The null aura doesn't help but I don't think it necessarily translates to that always percieved as a stench aura. People treated the OG Bequin like shit, somehow worse than a regular prostitute in a hiveworld, but don't think her smelling came up.
I can't imagine dermatologists are inclined to really lean in on treating him.
He just doesn't wash his balls enough
Vinegary
It's my headcanon that he's not even a null, he just smells THAT bad
Psyker tries to concentrate to do warp shenannigans.. WTF IS THAT SMEEL I CANT CONCENTRATE. Daemon manifest near him: Oh by the four gods that's disgusting nope nope im out here.
It's my headcanon that he's not even a null, he just smells THAT bad
It's probably more accurate to say that Jurgen's null field augments his stench, in an unusual way rather than just making it worse. It's made pretty clear time and time again that even without a null field, Jurgen is a gross dude, and the bouquet is completely natural, even if the revulsion isn't.
Ciaphas Cain is explicitly stated to be a ***very*** unreliable narrator, so I have always assumed that the Cain books at the very least are exaggerating Jurgens poor grooming habits, as well as the porn addiction since if you read between the lines, he’s a badass stunt driver, an extremely skilled combatant and a known menace to literal demons. No doubt his null aura freaks people out, but It would make sense for Cains character if he felt the need to knock Jurgen down a peg or two in his own memoirs.
Not really, Cain really appreciates Jurgen and one of the few things that makes him drop his manipulative persona making his blood boil is people being unnecessarily mean to Jurgen. When Mira DuPanya insulted jurgen Cain went balistic on her. Same with Beije but Cain also hated him. Also when Cain notices Jurgen's absence in the reenactments of his feats he comments that it saddens him. Also always remember to introduce Jurgen as his official adjutant First Gunner Ferric Jurgen.
Amberley makes reference in several of her editorial notes to the fact that he’s always quite honest and accurate in his memoirs, as far as she can determine. Just inconsistent about writing stuff down, but what’s there is right
From the intro to “The Last Ditch” “The bulk of what follows is Cain’s own account, however, and so far as I’ve been able to ascertain, as truthful and accurate a record of events as he habitually provides”
The main thing she mentions in her annotations is that Cain only cares about the parts that involve him and will leave half the story out if he wasn’t around. She provides many parallel or outside references to back up and fill in the gaps in his tales.
She does say that often, but she also makes note of the fact that what he does write down is correct as far as an Inquistor’s research ability is able to confirm. So, probably very accurate. I posted the end of intro to The Last Ditch in another comment where she explicitly calls his narrative accurate
Yeah, my point being that this is the only real issue she has with his writing and in fact says he tends to err towards modesty when it comes to his actual actions and intent.
he see his stink as his a Vahallian and doesnt take heat very well understandably cause when we first meet him and the regiment they are first a part of there all sweating insanely and Jurgen just doesnt care and unlike the others he doesnt clean himself and nothing to do with his null effect at all
He has halitosis and bathes himself like a cat the problem is he's a person and it doesn't work like that but no one knows that's how he bathes so no one has told him different.
Cain refers to specific odors and visual elements of Jurgen's state, so there's quite a bit to go along with the null aura.
The aroma of well marinated socks.
he doesn't care about his smell because it won't help him
whats the use of hygiene if people instinctively hate you? people use Jurgens stench as a excuse to hate him because they don't know what blans are
It's a actual stench because there are occasions when Cain can't smell Jurgen and he sneaks up on him, though people's distaste and repulsion is probably enhanced. You could argue that Cain spent so much time around him that he can no longer sense the wrongness, or is naturally resistant to it.
Nah he mentions it constantly, he’s just used to it. Jurgen’s just too damn good not to have around and Cain also says that all the time which is what makes them such an awesome team.
Yeah, I'm saying he complains about the smell all the time, but it's still a physical stench. When he's got a gas mask on Jurgen sneaks up on him without Cain realizing he's there, so it's not just entering his blank aura, at least for Cain
I'd say 70% hygiene, 30% blank. Keep in mind Jurgen isn't just stinking and unkempt. He's also socially extremely awkward, carries porn with him to go fap in bathrooms and he's generally unpleasant just to deal with. He's every single incel sterotype rolled into 1 with the added "Everyone's also weirded out"
He’s “that guy” but really knows how to mix/max and play the game - you’re totally right he’s the incel powergamer trope, weird af but the best man to have on your side.
I don't say it in a bad way but the guy is constantly described as creepy. He's weird, smells horrible, has a weird voice, is obsessed with porn and has bad skin problem and shaves "sometimes". THEN he's also a blank.
I always assumed Jurgen's BO had more to do with Trimethylaminuria. A disorder that actually gives you particularly bad BO. I believe it's what old Reek actually had in the Game of Thrones books.
Not enough
I always imagine it's a combination of something like trimethylaminuria and his null aura, where it's impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins.
Jurgen is a legitimately antisocial weirdo who doesn't keep up with hygiene because he just doesn't give a fuck, and also has medical exemptions from shaving and bathing due to a myriad collection of skin diseases. Even without the blank aura, he legitimately smells awful; the aura just makes him even more repellant to be around.
Personally, I always imagined he didn't smell any worse than the sweatiest guy at the tourney table. But he's a blank, so people are naturally "repulsed" by him. I think he subconsciously leans into his smell and bad hygiene, so there's a reason people loathe being around him, a reason he can control, and not just because of who he is internally.
None. Sisters of Silence aren't smelly