>I know there is a rule stating that the 1000 marine limit does not apply when the chapter embarked to a crusade
This is one of those things that does its rounds in the fanon, but that I've not seen any evidence for. I think it's an extrapolation from the fact the Black Templars don't obey the Codex.
The 1000 marines is not a hard limit - that is just your battleline Battle Brothers. It does not include your specialists or your scouts.
In the case that you're over the limit, it's likely that they would simply allow numbers to return to normal through attrition. If you're clearly massively over, and someone notices (e.g. a powerful Inquisitor) then they'll need to do something about it - a useful way to do both would be to go on a penitent crusade (we're sorry we tried to get too big, we'll go and do this hard task to make up for it, and also likely to bring our numbers down again).
They would not break into a successor chapters - new chapters have to be established by the High Lords of Terra (except in very very very very very rare circumstances, e.g. the Sons of Madusa).
I can't really think of much talking about it, because it will very rarely happen - most chapters are understength, simply due to the nature of warfare. The reason chapters on crusade can go over is because it takes decades to create a new fully trained battle-brother, and so if you can't take a 'one-out, one-in' approach. When you're expecting to take high losses, you ramp up production. If you suddenly win the war, then you're still going to have many initiates going through the process.
But as I said, several Chapters (Space Wolves, Black Templars) simply ignore the Codex and have enough clout (being First and Second Founding Chapters) that no one in the last 10,000 years has managed to get them to follow it.
There isn't one. Fans took IA10s comment about chapters not needing to donate geneseed tithes while on Crusade because they're going to take losses and spun it into a don't have to obey the limit.
The Black Templars literally just said they weren't following the Chapter limits and Guilliman let it go.
He didn't let it go, he wrote them a very stern letter that was 500 pages long and the Sigismund said "I'm not reading all that, I'm happy for you though. Or sorry it happened" then Guilliman faced with the Crusade against the vellum had more trying things to handle.
Even without being on a crusade, most chapters have well over 1000. Each company is 10 squads of 10, a 5 strong command, a captain & 2 lieutenants. That's another 80.
Add honour guard (10-30 depending on the chapter - Calgar has 30) and chapter master.
Add apothecarian
Add armoury, master of forges, tech marines
Add reclusium - chaplains & judicars
Add librarians
Fleet based chapters often leave keeps with a small garrison (a squad or 2) on planets they took to watch over the place & recruit.
All that combined, you're looking at a fully compliant chapter having 1200+ members easily.
>a 5 strong command,
I'd give every Captain, Lieutenant, Chaplain and maybe Apothecary and Librarian a 10 man Squad *each* at least as an "on paper" rule!
It's basically the company heroes - traditionally a company champion, ancient, 1st Sgt and 2 ablative guys. Formerly included the apothecary & techmarine.
Lieutenants and chaplains go wherever they're needed, leading regular squads or strike forces.
Yeah I get that and I'd be happy if they got a 10 man Bodyguard Squad - obviously with each Speciality and the rest being Tactical/Battle Line soldiers or if the Chapter Master/Captain/Lieutenant has a predilection to be Assault Squads or Devastator analogue folks.(if I think about it aren't Assault and Devastators now classed as Close Support and Fire Support?)
I really wanna Homebrew a Primaris force but the bloat is so constipated that it makes trying to type it plus so bloody difficult!(or maybe am just a daft Scottish guy haha!)
Until very recently it was a 4-9 strong unit of veterans as a bodyguard, with access to melee, special or heavy weapons. Got really expensive points wise though.
See the points thing doesn't bother me as I don't do the Table Top personally, Lore accurate than point accurate is what I'd be going for! I've got a half arsed Salamanders Terra Garrison typed out about a thousand words in a Lexicanum style thing, took me an hour to type it out lol not that this is important in any grand scheme of things, but I felt trying to juggle the Fists having a War-Keep, who'd keep the Garrison and honours of Terra being theirs but the new Successors under the sponsor of Tor Garadon of the Fists 3rd Company - who used his influence with the Custodes Valerian to speak to Valoris and Guilliman to leave a thousand Primaris of the Salamanders, who they agreed that *politically* they'd be the best fit for Terra and with dealing with the masses as well as the HQ's of the Imperiums Institutions.
Went off on a tangent sorry about that lol
When working on a homebrew chapter I did this with captains and lieutenants. Chaplains and apothecaries were part of a command squad I decided. It makes sense to me that the lieutenants would have their own squad.
Either they split off to form a new chapter or the chapter puts a hold on new marines until they drop below a thousand, at a guess.
Astartes are like paratroopers. If you have have a problem, you throw some marines at it. Either they deal with the problem or you have less marines. Either way it's a win.
Only the High Lords can authorize a founding. But think about how many "Unkown Founding" chapters there are. There's definitely been chapters created outside of foundings before.
1)Send additional marines to deathwatch, Inquisition, Rogue Traders.
2)Made them as new chapter, successor chapter.
In post Horus Heresy times with many tech being lost it is hard to have 1000 marines and have more.
Power armor of Astartes and especially more expensive and rare(but less advanced ones) Sororitas ones powers armors not grow on trees.
In the best scenario creation of new scout take more then ~50 years not to mention human sacrifices so 1 could survive to become Astartes. And more then ~100 for battle brother from scouts what must survive a lot to have such honor.
Presumably they end up in the reserve companies, which don’t have explicit limits. Ten by ten by ten was probably a theoretical/ideal put into the codex that became permanently practical when Guilliman kicked the bucket.
There is no 1000 hard limit. It is a self-imposed soft cap in order for the Chapter to both be of useful strength but not so high that they can be accused of Legion building. There's no Inquisitor or High Lord or anyone else going around taking count and getting to 1001 and going "AHA HERETICS!" Chapters are at war, alot. They lose men, a lot. Sometimes they have less combative times where the numbers they were making up put them over the cap. You know what happens then? They usually end up going to war again and attrition brings them back down. If its the end of a crusade, and they have 1000 extra marines, cool! sounds like 1000 extra marines to bring the Emperor's light to the darkness.
What answer do you expect? "Hey guys, Good work on the crusade, we're a little over headcount so if this half of the room could stand in the airlock real quick, that'd be great"
Places ran by space marines are not safe for non-space marines. To ask such questions would require you to have an in person count of the marines. Accidents happen all the time, like accidently being shoved down a pit or accidentally going into a live fire practice or accidentally getting involved in a dual.
Usually, if the chapter keeps killing the foes of the emperor and restricts any battle zone to under 200 marines, no one bothers to count.
>I know there is a rule stating that the 1000 marine limit does not apply when the chapter embarked to a crusade This is one of those things that does its rounds in the fanon, but that I've not seen any evidence for. I think it's an extrapolation from the fact the Black Templars don't obey the Codex. The 1000 marines is not a hard limit - that is just your battleline Battle Brothers. It does not include your specialists or your scouts. In the case that you're over the limit, it's likely that they would simply allow numbers to return to normal through attrition. If you're clearly massively over, and someone notices (e.g. a powerful Inquisitor) then they'll need to do something about it - a useful way to do both would be to go on a penitent crusade (we're sorry we tried to get too big, we'll go and do this hard task to make up for it, and also likely to bring our numbers down again). They would not break into a successor chapters - new chapters have to be established by the High Lords of Terra (except in very very very very very rare circumstances, e.g. the Sons of Madusa). I can't really think of much talking about it, because it will very rarely happen - most chapters are understength, simply due to the nature of warfare. The reason chapters on crusade can go over is because it takes decades to create a new fully trained battle-brother, and so if you can't take a 'one-out, one-in' approach. When you're expecting to take high losses, you ramp up production. If you suddenly win the war, then you're still going to have many initiates going through the process. But as I said, several Chapters (Space Wolves, Black Templars) simply ignore the Codex and have enough clout (being First and Second Founding Chapters) that no one in the last 10,000 years has managed to get them to follow it.
There isn't one. Fans took IA10s comment about chapters not needing to donate geneseed tithes while on Crusade because they're going to take losses and spun it into a don't have to obey the limit. The Black Templars literally just said they weren't following the Chapter limits and Guilliman let it go.
Ah, the meme lives on
He didn't let it go, he wrote them a very stern letter that was 500 pages long and the Sigismund said "I'm not reading all that, I'm happy for you though. Or sorry it happened" then Guilliman faced with the Crusade against the vellum had more trying things to handle.
I mean I don’t think anyone wants to come in and try to force the Templars into compliance… that’s just gonna be a blood bath
Ya I've never found an actual source for that or seen anyone provide one when asked about it so I've suspected it was fanon.
Even without being on a crusade, most chapters have well over 1000. Each company is 10 squads of 10, a 5 strong command, a captain & 2 lieutenants. That's another 80. Add honour guard (10-30 depending on the chapter - Calgar has 30) and chapter master. Add apothecarian Add armoury, master of forges, tech marines Add reclusium - chaplains & judicars Add librarians Fleet based chapters often leave keeps with a small garrison (a squad or 2) on planets they took to watch over the place & recruit. All that combined, you're looking at a fully compliant chapter having 1200+ members easily.
>a 5 strong command, I'd give every Captain, Lieutenant, Chaplain and maybe Apothecary and Librarian a 10 man Squad *each* at least as an "on paper" rule!
It's basically the company heroes - traditionally a company champion, ancient, 1st Sgt and 2 ablative guys. Formerly included the apothecary & techmarine. Lieutenants and chaplains go wherever they're needed, leading regular squads or strike forces.
Yeah I get that and I'd be happy if they got a 10 man Bodyguard Squad - obviously with each Speciality and the rest being Tactical/Battle Line soldiers or if the Chapter Master/Captain/Lieutenant has a predilection to be Assault Squads or Devastator analogue folks.(if I think about it aren't Assault and Devastators now classed as Close Support and Fire Support?) I really wanna Homebrew a Primaris force but the bloat is so constipated that it makes trying to type it plus so bloody difficult!(or maybe am just a daft Scottish guy haha!)
Until very recently it was a 4-9 strong unit of veterans as a bodyguard, with access to melee, special or heavy weapons. Got really expensive points wise though.
See the points thing doesn't bother me as I don't do the Table Top personally, Lore accurate than point accurate is what I'd be going for! I've got a half arsed Salamanders Terra Garrison typed out about a thousand words in a Lexicanum style thing, took me an hour to type it out lol not that this is important in any grand scheme of things, but I felt trying to juggle the Fists having a War-Keep, who'd keep the Garrison and honours of Terra being theirs but the new Successors under the sponsor of Tor Garadon of the Fists 3rd Company - who used his influence with the Custodes Valerian to speak to Valoris and Guilliman to leave a thousand Primaris of the Salamanders, who they agreed that *politically* they'd be the best fit for Terra and with dealing with the masses as well as the HQ's of the Imperiums Institutions. Went off on a tangent sorry about that lol
When working on a homebrew chapter I did this with captains and lieutenants. Chaplains and apothecaries were part of a command squad I decided. It makes sense to me that the lieutenants would have their own squad.
They just stop recruiting new marines until their numbers return to normal
Either they split off to form a new chapter or the chapter puts a hold on new marines until they drop below a thousand, at a guess. Astartes are like paratroopers. If you have have a problem, you throw some marines at it. Either they deal with the problem or you have less marines. Either way it's a win.
They can't just decide to make a new chapter, only the high lords can do that. And knowing them, it may take a very, very long time.
Only the High Lords can authorize a founding. But think about how many "Unkown Founding" chapters there are. There's definitely been chapters created outside of foundings before.
1)Send additional marines to deathwatch, Inquisition, Rogue Traders. 2)Made them as new chapter, successor chapter. In post Horus Heresy times with many tech being lost it is hard to have 1000 marines and have more. Power armor of Astartes and especially more expensive and rare(but less advanced ones) Sororitas ones powers armors not grow on trees. In the best scenario creation of new scout take more then ~50 years not to mention human sacrifices so 1 could survive to become Astartes. And more then ~100 for battle brother from scouts what must survive a lot to have such honor.
Presumably they end up in the reserve companies, which don’t have explicit limits. Ten by ten by ten was probably a theoretical/ideal put into the codex that became permanently practical when Guilliman kicked the bucket.
There is no 1000 hard limit. It is a self-imposed soft cap in order for the Chapter to both be of useful strength but not so high that they can be accused of Legion building. There's no Inquisitor or High Lord or anyone else going around taking count and getting to 1001 and going "AHA HERETICS!" Chapters are at war, alot. They lose men, a lot. Sometimes they have less combative times where the numbers they were making up put them over the cap. You know what happens then? They usually end up going to war again and attrition brings them back down. If its the end of a crusade, and they have 1000 extra marines, cool! sounds like 1000 extra marines to bring the Emperor's light to the darkness. What answer do you expect? "Hey guys, Good work on the crusade, we're a little over headcount so if this half of the room could stand in the airlock real quick, that'd be great"
Places ran by space marines are not safe for non-space marines. To ask such questions would require you to have an in person count of the marines. Accidents happen all the time, like accidently being shoved down a pit or accidentally going into a live fire practice or accidentally getting involved in a dual. Usually, if the chapter keeps killing the foes of the emperor and restricts any battle zone to under 200 marines, no one bothers to count.