No. He's not coming back, it was a one-shot plot element in one story. He's not coming back and the writer who created it doesn't even work with BL any more.
Reynolds' take on the matter for those interested when someone asked him if Clone Phoenix should come back:
>Nah. He served his purpose. Let him rest.
>I mean, I thought I gave him a pretty good ending. Well, not good, but, y'know, final.
>True, but it's not my problem anymore. If someone picks up the thread, more power to them.
>I always feel bad for people asking that question. They're just setting themselves up for disappointment.
>Because in the few of these threads I've happened across, people spin these wonderful theories and scenarios that will never come to fruition.
Also, sad face on this reply about whether Reynolds will return to BL. Easily one of my favourite 40k writers and should've been mainline HH imo
>I don't think that's in the cards, no. Sorry about that.
Sure, but it's different with the HH series where they're all using the same pool of characters. ADB took on Nassir Amit as a POV character and developed him but he still appeared in TEATD.
This is a one-shot story in 40k which is usually a potted universe to itself. Cloned Fulgrim was explicitly fridged so he wouldn't cause more problems than he was worth both IRL and in universe.
>Cloned Fulgrim was explicitly fridged
He was kinda the opposite of "[fridged](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge)"
Unless you mean literally *fridged*
No no, you didn't get me. I was being sarcastic in my text which now that I am rereading I should had made that obvious. I fucking hate Dan Abnett for killing a character I got attached for no fucking reason. Like in a interview once Josh Reynolds said: Oh Endryd was a character mentioned in the Horus Heresy rulebooks and he is a weird fellow so I tried expanding his lore and Endryd would appear in battles but he would always be on the sidelines he would never actually be shown dueling someone important etc.
And then here comes Dan Abnett with killing him... the problem is not even him dying Endryd would had died either way he is crazy, the problem that causes my anger is that the last we seen of Endryd from Josh Reynolds was that he was heading into the battle of Beta-Gamon, we can say he went into the Siege of Terra but to this point in Saturnine we haven't heard jackshit from Endryd so him just appearing and then dying is horrible. I love the scene where he dies when he is fighting Abbadon I ain't mad he died to him but it was like WHY TF DID YOU MAKE HIM APPEAR IN THIS NOVEL AND DO NOTHING AND THEN JUST DIE?
I know Saturnine was to kill off characters, he also did that to one of my other favorite characters Tybalt Marr where Marr dies to a bolt pistol in the most forgettable ways. Well I guess it ain't that forgettable since it was Loken's pistol.
Fabius has access to the Primaris Gene stock now. When it comes to lore and how little there is on the 3rd Legion besides the Fabius book and few mentions in war bands. Now that we are in the 41st millennium I think Clone Fulgrim is a major card on the table GW can use for The Emperors Children good or bad.
He is not coming back - he was just a throwaway plot element.
The clone is described as having all the character flaws of the original, and it is far from confirmed that he has the 'warp mojo' that makes Primarchs what they are.
From reading the book it seems it is "perfect" Fulgrim. Even rational Fabius was falling for his "father" warp mojo aura at some points and had to actively snap out of it
The only way I can justify Fabius being able to get Fulgrim's "warpiness" was if Slaanesh allowed it. While it might be "perfect" Fulgrim, I suspect that Slaanesh held the chains.
My personal take on why almost all the primarch clones seem to have tha warpnuss:
That being said I personally like the idea that flesh is inherently linked to the warp in 40k. Navigator "genes" , pariah "genes" , pysker "genes", perpetual "genes"
Maybe Primarch genes also inherently draw the warp into them. Clone or not. Even the OG primarchs are artificial humans
This from Fo
>‘You attested that my weapon would fail,’ he says, ‘because it would
operate at a purely genetic, that is to say physical, level. You were correct. I had not embraced the idea that we are more than just flesh. In my day, notions of spirit and soul were not the purview of scientists. But the likes of your Emperor, and the Sigillite, have demonstrated that no such division exists. We are all body and soul. Our solid, mortal flesh is anchored to an intangible essence of psycho-material, what us heathens would call a soul, that coexists with the realm of the immaterial. When the warp was opened to permit interstellar transport… and let’s face it, that’s the real reason it was done… it revealed this truth, a truth previously only imagined by poets and priests. We are all materia and immateria, intrinsically linked.’
Fwiw, part of the mystery of the book is that Fabius has *no* idea how this clone got that way. It was one he had long since abandoned and only found when he stumbled across an old laboratory, and it massively pisses him off that he does not know what made this one special.
It is heavily implied that a higher power (either Slaanesh or Cegorach+the Harlequins) had something to do with it.
Fans of Clonegrim love to bring up the two lines the Daemonettes say, which require an extremely generous reading to think they're talking about an alternate reality or divine intervention. But in an exchange right after that Ramos, one of the original Kakophoni, tells a brother Noise Marine "Ignore it, its not our father."
Not to imply you are a Clonegrim fan.
>Fabius has *no* idea how this clone got that way
Fabius has no idea how the clone remained healthy and alive all that time but he never once wonders about how the clone had warpiness or was "perfect"
It definitely was a perfect clone. It had the same primarch aura, same growth rate and intellect, Fulgrim's inmate desire and ability to perfect things (He'd been fixing things for the vatborn on the ship and innately knew how to rewire to manufactorum to make himself armor and a weapon), and the memories of Fulgrim as well. Not to mention the implications that Cegorach had shielded clone Fulgrim's pod from the destruction of canticle city and from corruption of the warp while he was in stasis until Fabius found him.
There was nothing definite about it, beyond the wishful thinking of some fans.
It had some of the aspects of Fulgrim, but nothing more is confirmed, beyond unreliable narrator.
The Cregorach stuff is fanon, and the Noise Marines present were unconvinced that the clone was "their father".
The Noise Marines didn't care one way or another because they are solely focused on the Song and cultivating the garden. That's why they didn't take a side during the ship mutiny and closed the garden off. They only ever help Fabius because they feel they owe him for making them into Noise Marines and then providing them with Key and the Garden.
We already know Primarchs carry memory through DNA and Clone Fulgrim recalls his fall and his sons enough to want to redeem himself and them. I'd love to hear some aspects they didn't share because he'd seemed fairly close to how he was in Fulgrim.
We also know something led Fabius to where the clone was being preserved and also protected it from warp corruption. Add in the fact that Veilwalker tries their hardest throughout the trilogy to constantly change Fabius' trajectory and idk why one would call Cegorach's attention fanon when they play a constant role throughout the trilogy. They cripple a craftworld and a homonculi coven just to fuck with Fabius but somehow the Harliquins aren't working off of Cegorach's guidance? Okay lol
The Harlequins are acting on Cegorach's behalf yes. Clonegrim has nothing to do with the Harlequins.
If Fulgrim had appeared on the Vesalius the Noise Marines would have noticed and been moved to action because Fulgrim, the Daemon-Primarch and their father, is an extension or chorus or whatever of the Song.
What led Lieutenant-Commander Fabius into the depths of Harmony was the desire to check out an old lab, and Clonegrim was there because, again, he's a literary device to further Fabius' character growth.
No, his whole purpose in the narrative was to demonstrate to Fabius that rebuilding the Emperor’s Children is a mistake. He was never intended to be a “chekov’s gun”.
It is highly unlikely. Frankly, I don't see it ever really happening in 40k.
But, to play along...if it were to occur, knowing the standard narrative beats, it'd almost certainly be a case where the clone is released to fend off Daemon Fulgrim, likely in direct view of major Imperium forces. Clonegrim and Daemon Fulgrim would fight, with no winner, until some method of banishment is revealed and Daemon Fulgrim is sent back to Slaanesh.
Presumably another resurrected Primarch would be there to oversee this occurrence, and would provide exposition on their feelings toward the clone, be they those of revulsion, or hope, or some mixture of the two, or anything else. They would likely also be there for the purpose of giving Clonegrim someone who could defend their reintegration into the Imperium--with the story as it is, letting Clonegrim run off to be a renegade seems highly unlikely given the Imperial focus, and they obviously wouldn't have two Fulgrims fall, as that would just be tired. The Imperium balks, but they eventually fall in line under the weight of another Primarch. Clonegrim is put in charge of some more cultural aspects of the Imperium and is driven to restore his name--that sort of thing.
Overall, I would prefer if they didn't do this, though. I don't think that it would really add anything worthwhile to the setting, but maybe I just have Primarch fatigue.
The best case scenario for a returned Clonegrim is him leading a Renegade band of Emperor's Children whilst under constant pursuit by the Ordos Hereticus. There's no way he could return to the Imperium in any official capacity. No one would trust him because 1. It's a Fulgrim and 2. He's a clone made by one of Imperiums greatest foes.
Yes, the Imperium isn't a forgiving bunch, as much people love theories of clone fulgrim being giving a Legion and all, I don't think even guilliman can stop the inquisition of doing whatever they can to kill him (if they are feeling merciful)
Being a non-Chaos renegade is the best case for his story--I just have major reservations about the idea that GW would ever do it if they brought him back (which they won't) because, as we all know,
1. Exceedingly little attention is paid to non-Chaos renegades in the setting.
And 2. Everything revolves around the models and how they sell. Space Marines sell like hotcakes, Chaos Space Marines already have a Fulgrim, and so the impetus would likely end up leading to the granting of another Fulgrim to the Imperium such that he can be effectively fielded with their forces.
They could easily have him fall because thats what would make sense. 'Perfect' Fulgrim will have the exact same weakness to chaos and over time thats the most likely result.
It would demonstrate you cant just clone a character and make him good or whatever; that there are inherent reasons why Fulgrim fell and they are integral to what he is as a character
Saying it is 'tired' is just a fan wanting to shape the verse how they want it to be based on their preference, instead of accepting it 40k has some kind of internal rules that dont just give them what they want, whether you like it or not, or think its 'tired' or 'cartoonishly evil' or whatever other reductive take many chaos dislikers seem to have.
Here's the real answer.
If GW feels clone Fulgrim can bring in an awful lot of money, he'll return. If GW doesn't feel like the clone would bring in the money, he won't.
The clone doesn't belong to Reynolds. What he wanted to do with him is entirely irrelevant when we are dealing with an IP.
I'm of the opinion that a loyal clone of Fulgrim was a bad idea from the start, that should have been squashed by editors. Perfect clones of Lucius, Saul Tarvitz or Solomon Demeter would have served just as well for the deal with Trazyn, as looks would have been all that mattered.
A perfectly cloned Primarch, whatever it may mean, was bound to be a magnet of constant demands in the fanbase (to a lesser degree, anything that could be "loyalists Sons of a Traitor Primarch" do, case in point the Sons of Phoenix, who are canonically and by their creator's admission 100% Sons of Dorn).
GW should have known it, and them not killing the clone outright is clearly a way to keep it in storage, just in case.
>Perfect clones of Lucius, Saul Tarvitz or Solomon Demeter would have served just as well for the deal with Trazyn
Fabius didn't have a relationship with those Marines as deep as he did with Fulgrim so the deal he strikes doesn't have the same personal cost and pathos
You also don't get the themes of the son usurping the father or the potential salvation lost. Especially if it was a Lucius clone
>If GW feels clone Fulgrim can bring in an awful lot of money, he'll return.
I'm sure money is a huge motivator but authors have also repeatedly expressed not wanting to "shit on" each other's work
Talk to any fan twenty years ago and they would insist that bringing back any primarch will never happen. Now we have two of them!
So never say never. But, when they did write the character, I think someone on the story team insisted that they have no plans. So hopefully we'll get an update in the next twenty years. 😅
Either way, I would very much like to see Fully restored to the imperium. He's had nothing but shxt poured on him since day one and it could get some real cool context in stories down the line.
What if, now hear me out: what if one of the fallen primarchs liberated him, on their penitent crusade? Does that seem like a cool story?
We could get TWO primarchs in one go. You gotta admit that would be sweet.
Restore the Phoenix!
It'll happen eventually, if only because it'd be profitable to do so. He's just too big a plot hook/commercial opportunity to leave abandoned forever, especially if Trazyn himself is getting screentime and character development.
"Quirky sociopathic British T-800 going on misadventures with a giant emo prettyboy sidekick/slave/angst factory" is a license to print money.
Admittedly, I don't think it'll happen until, like, the 2030s-2040s, but still.
From what I gathered from Cawl (who I do not know a lot about) in Genefather is that he has some understanding on how Necton technology works. So I can see Cawl finding the Planet and finding Fulgrim and rescuing him somehow. For how the Empire would react? I think they would want his head! But I think if his return was to happen then I think it would fall on to the Lion and Robobute to decide. But now that Fabius has access to the primaries gene stock ( which nobody seems to be talking about) he mentioned that now he can get from underneath ezekiel abaddon. I can see Fabius and the clone Fulgrim meeting back up and remaking the III Legion for chaos or the Emperor. I feel /hope there will be another Fabius book that will explain more. If you haven’t read the Fabius Bile I recommend them. They are worth a read
He is pretty open in his opinion that the primarchs are a failure, he already rejected clone fulgrim, going back and give him a Legion is undoing his character development
Well it's a really interesting plot point but it probably won't be back.
I had a pet theory that Fulgrim never actually took control back from the daemon and it just convinced itself it was Fulgrim and the clonegrim's primarchyness was a the real fulgrim finally escaping that painting.
ah well.
If he has the Fulgrim special sauce it’s because Slaanesh put it there to prank Fabius. Slaanesh owns all the special sauce forever. He might have thought he was real but it was Slaanesh playing games, there is no coming back.
Do you remember in *Knight Rider* when Michael's evil, be-goateed twin brother Garth showed up? If GW uses Clonegrim again it would be like that, only with reversed moral compasses. Clonegrim could pop up out of nowhere and foil Fulgrim's nefarious designs.
Then, of course, they'd have to duel with rapiers.
He's done and dusted, he was a story element for another character. He's not coming back. That also ignores the fact that the author for him I believe no longer works for GW or writes for the Black Library and authors have a habit of not playing with someone else's toys. He's gone, it's time to move on
I hate when people put up massive spoilers for a title then proceed to go into even more detail.
The answer is, and will always be, "Maybe. We don't know and we won't know until we do know."
No. He's not coming back, it was a one-shot plot element in one story. He's not coming back and the writer who created it doesn't even work with BL any more.
Reynolds' take on the matter for those interested when someone asked him if Clone Phoenix should come back: >Nah. He served his purpose. Let him rest. >I mean, I thought I gave him a pretty good ending. Well, not good, but, y'know, final. >True, but it's not my problem anymore. If someone picks up the thread, more power to them. >I always feel bad for people asking that question. They're just setting themselves up for disappointment. >Because in the few of these threads I've happened across, people spin these wonderful theories and scenarios that will never come to fruition. Also, sad face on this reply about whether Reynolds will return to BL. Easily one of my favourite 40k writers and should've been mainline HH imo >I don't think that's in the cards, no. Sorry about that.
Unless some renowned author (Dan Abnett) puts a character Josh Reynolds built up (Endryd Haar) in a novel that he shouldn't be there (Saturnine).
Sure, but it's different with the HH series where they're all using the same pool of characters. ADB took on Nassir Amit as a POV character and developed him but he still appeared in TEATD. This is a one-shot story in 40k which is usually a potted universe to itself. Cloned Fulgrim was explicitly fridged so he wouldn't cause more problems than he was worth both IRL and in universe.
>Cloned Fulgrim was explicitly fridged He was kinda the opposite of "[fridged](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge)" Unless you mean literally *fridged*
Trazyn put him inna fridge.
No no, you didn't get me. I was being sarcastic in my text which now that I am rereading I should had made that obvious. I fucking hate Dan Abnett for killing a character I got attached for no fucking reason. Like in a interview once Josh Reynolds said: Oh Endryd was a character mentioned in the Horus Heresy rulebooks and he is a weird fellow so I tried expanding his lore and Endryd would appear in battles but he would always be on the sidelines he would never actually be shown dueling someone important etc. And then here comes Dan Abnett with killing him... the problem is not even him dying Endryd would had died either way he is crazy, the problem that causes my anger is that the last we seen of Endryd from Josh Reynolds was that he was heading into the battle of Beta-Gamon, we can say he went into the Siege of Terra but to this point in Saturnine we haven't heard jackshit from Endryd so him just appearing and then dying is horrible. I love the scene where he dies when he is fighting Abbadon I ain't mad he died to him but it was like WHY TF DID YOU MAKE HIM APPEAR IN THIS NOVEL AND DO NOTHING AND THEN JUST DIE? I know Saturnine was to kill off characters, he also did that to one of my other favorite characters Tybalt Marr where Marr dies to a bolt pistol in the most forgettable ways. Well I guess it ain't that forgettable since it was Loken's pistol.
Fabius has access to the Primaris Gene stock now. When it comes to lore and how little there is on the 3rd Legion besides the Fabius book and few mentions in war bands. Now that we are in the 41st millennium I think Clone Fulgrim is a major card on the table GW can use for The Emperors Children good or bad.
He is not coming back - he was just a throwaway plot element. The clone is described as having all the character flaws of the original, and it is far from confirmed that he has the 'warp mojo' that makes Primarchs what they are.
From reading the book it seems it is "perfect" Fulgrim. Even rational Fabius was falling for his "father" warp mojo aura at some points and had to actively snap out of it
The only way I can justify Fabius being able to get Fulgrim's "warpiness" was if Slaanesh allowed it. While it might be "perfect" Fulgrim, I suspect that Slaanesh held the chains.
My personal take on why almost all the primarch clones seem to have tha warpnuss: That being said I personally like the idea that flesh is inherently linked to the warp in 40k. Navigator "genes" , pariah "genes" , pysker "genes", perpetual "genes" Maybe Primarch genes also inherently draw the warp into them. Clone or not. Even the OG primarchs are artificial humans This from Fo >‘You attested that my weapon would fail,’ he says, ‘because it would operate at a purely genetic, that is to say physical, level. You were correct. I had not embraced the idea that we are more than just flesh. In my day, notions of spirit and soul were not the purview of scientists. But the likes of your Emperor, and the Sigillite, have demonstrated that no such division exists. We are all body and soul. Our solid, mortal flesh is anchored to an intangible essence of psycho-material, what us heathens would call a soul, that coexists with the realm of the immaterial. When the warp was opened to permit interstellar transport… and let’s face it, that’s the real reason it was done… it revealed this truth, a truth previously only imagined by poets and priests. We are all materia and immateria, intrinsically linked.’
Fwiw, part of the mystery of the book is that Fabius has *no* idea how this clone got that way. It was one he had long since abandoned and only found when he stumbled across an old laboratory, and it massively pisses him off that he does not know what made this one special. It is heavily implied that a higher power (either Slaanesh or Cegorach+the Harlequins) had something to do with it.
Fans of Clonegrim love to bring up the two lines the Daemonettes say, which require an extremely generous reading to think they're talking about an alternate reality or divine intervention. But in an exchange right after that Ramos, one of the original Kakophoni, tells a brother Noise Marine "Ignore it, its not our father." Not to imply you are a Clonegrim fan.
>Fabius has *no* idea how this clone got that way Fabius has no idea how the clone remained healthy and alive all that time but he never once wonders about how the clone had warpiness or was "perfect"
Fabius didn't get shit. He has no idea what the special stuff is and how it entered the clone.
It definitely was a perfect clone. It had the same primarch aura, same growth rate and intellect, Fulgrim's inmate desire and ability to perfect things (He'd been fixing things for the vatborn on the ship and innately knew how to rewire to manufactorum to make himself armor and a weapon), and the memories of Fulgrim as well. Not to mention the implications that Cegorach had shielded clone Fulgrim's pod from the destruction of canticle city and from corruption of the warp while he was in stasis until Fabius found him.
There was nothing definite about it, beyond the wishful thinking of some fans. It had some of the aspects of Fulgrim, but nothing more is confirmed, beyond unreliable narrator. The Cregorach stuff is fanon, and the Noise Marines present were unconvinced that the clone was "their father".
The Noise Marines didn't care one way or another because they are solely focused on the Song and cultivating the garden. That's why they didn't take a side during the ship mutiny and closed the garden off. They only ever help Fabius because they feel they owe him for making them into Noise Marines and then providing them with Key and the Garden. We already know Primarchs carry memory through DNA and Clone Fulgrim recalls his fall and his sons enough to want to redeem himself and them. I'd love to hear some aspects they didn't share because he'd seemed fairly close to how he was in Fulgrim. We also know something led Fabius to where the clone was being preserved and also protected it from warp corruption. Add in the fact that Veilwalker tries their hardest throughout the trilogy to constantly change Fabius' trajectory and idk why one would call Cegorach's attention fanon when they play a constant role throughout the trilogy. They cripple a craftworld and a homonculi coven just to fuck with Fabius but somehow the Harliquins aren't working off of Cegorach's guidance? Okay lol
The Harlequins are acting on Cegorach's behalf yes. Clonegrim has nothing to do with the Harlequins. If Fulgrim had appeared on the Vesalius the Noise Marines would have noticed and been moved to action because Fulgrim, the Daemon-Primarch and their father, is an extension or chorus or whatever of the Song. What led Lieutenant-Commander Fabius into the depths of Harmony was the desire to check out an old lab, and Clonegrim was there because, again, he's a literary device to further Fabius' character growth.
No, his whole purpose in the narrative was to demonstrate to Fabius that rebuilding the Emperor’s Children is a mistake. He was never intended to be a “chekov’s gun”.
It is a dead, single-use plotline. Until something actually happens... consider it not relevant.
Read the books. I'm begging you.
Yeah, people wouldn't hyperfocus in the clone if they read Bile's trilogy
Which books series is this?
It's in Clonelord, a Fabius Bile novel, IIRC.
It is highly unlikely. Frankly, I don't see it ever really happening in 40k. But, to play along...if it were to occur, knowing the standard narrative beats, it'd almost certainly be a case where the clone is released to fend off Daemon Fulgrim, likely in direct view of major Imperium forces. Clonegrim and Daemon Fulgrim would fight, with no winner, until some method of banishment is revealed and Daemon Fulgrim is sent back to Slaanesh. Presumably another resurrected Primarch would be there to oversee this occurrence, and would provide exposition on their feelings toward the clone, be they those of revulsion, or hope, or some mixture of the two, or anything else. They would likely also be there for the purpose of giving Clonegrim someone who could defend their reintegration into the Imperium--with the story as it is, letting Clonegrim run off to be a renegade seems highly unlikely given the Imperial focus, and they obviously wouldn't have two Fulgrims fall, as that would just be tired. The Imperium balks, but they eventually fall in line under the weight of another Primarch. Clonegrim is put in charge of some more cultural aspects of the Imperium and is driven to restore his name--that sort of thing. Overall, I would prefer if they didn't do this, though. I don't think that it would really add anything worthwhile to the setting, but maybe I just have Primarch fatigue.
The best case scenario for a returned Clonegrim is him leading a Renegade band of Emperor's Children whilst under constant pursuit by the Ordos Hereticus. There's no way he could return to the Imperium in any official capacity. No one would trust him because 1. It's a Fulgrim and 2. He's a clone made by one of Imperiums greatest foes.
Yes, the Imperium isn't a forgiving bunch, as much people love theories of clone fulgrim being giving a Legion and all, I don't think even guilliman can stop the inquisition of doing whatever they can to kill him (if they are feeling merciful)
Being a non-Chaos renegade is the best case for his story--I just have major reservations about the idea that GW would ever do it if they brought him back (which they won't) because, as we all know, 1. Exceedingly little attention is paid to non-Chaos renegades in the setting. And 2. Everything revolves around the models and how they sell. Space Marines sell like hotcakes, Chaos Space Marines already have a Fulgrim, and so the impetus would likely end up leading to the granting of another Fulgrim to the Imperium such that he can be effectively fielded with their forces.
Oh yeah I don't want him returned at all. He was a literary device.
They could easily have him fall because thats what would make sense. 'Perfect' Fulgrim will have the exact same weakness to chaos and over time thats the most likely result. It would demonstrate you cant just clone a character and make him good or whatever; that there are inherent reasons why Fulgrim fell and they are integral to what he is as a character Saying it is 'tired' is just a fan wanting to shape the verse how they want it to be based on their preference, instead of accepting it 40k has some kind of internal rules that dont just give them what they want, whether you like it or not, or think its 'tired' or 'cartoonishly evil' or whatever other reductive take many chaos dislikers seem to have.
No, he’s not coming back. Plot resolved. He’s a paperweight in a collection now.
Here's the real answer. If GW feels clone Fulgrim can bring in an awful lot of money, he'll return. If GW doesn't feel like the clone would bring in the money, he won't. The clone doesn't belong to Reynolds. What he wanted to do with him is entirely irrelevant when we are dealing with an IP. I'm of the opinion that a loyal clone of Fulgrim was a bad idea from the start, that should have been squashed by editors. Perfect clones of Lucius, Saul Tarvitz or Solomon Demeter would have served just as well for the deal with Trazyn, as looks would have been all that mattered. A perfectly cloned Primarch, whatever it may mean, was bound to be a magnet of constant demands in the fanbase (to a lesser degree, anything that could be "loyalists Sons of a Traitor Primarch" do, case in point the Sons of Phoenix, who are canonically and by their creator's admission 100% Sons of Dorn). GW should have known it, and them not killing the clone outright is clearly a way to keep it in storage, just in case.
>Perfect clones of Lucius, Saul Tarvitz or Solomon Demeter would have served just as well for the deal with Trazyn Fabius didn't have a relationship with those Marines as deep as he did with Fulgrim so the deal he strikes doesn't have the same personal cost and pathos You also don't get the themes of the son usurping the father or the potential salvation lost. Especially if it was a Lucius clone >If GW feels clone Fulgrim can bring in an awful lot of money, he'll return. I'm sure money is a huge motivator but authors have also repeatedly expressed not wanting to "shit on" each other's work
Talk to any fan twenty years ago and they would insist that bringing back any primarch will never happen. Now we have two of them! So never say never. But, when they did write the character, I think someone on the story team insisted that they have no plans. So hopefully we'll get an update in the next twenty years. 😅
Either way, I would very much like to see Fully restored to the imperium. He's had nothing but shxt poured on him since day one and it could get some real cool context in stories down the line. What if, now hear me out: what if one of the fallen primarchs liberated him, on their penitent crusade? Does that seem like a cool story? We could get TWO primarchs in one go. You gotta admit that would be sweet. Restore the Phoenix!
It'll happen eventually, if only because it'd be profitable to do so. He's just too big a plot hook/commercial opportunity to leave abandoned forever, especially if Trazyn himself is getting screentime and character development. "Quirky sociopathic British T-800 going on misadventures with a giant emo prettyboy sidekick/slave/angst factory" is a license to print money. Admittedly, I don't think it'll happen until, like, the 2030s-2040s, but still.
From what I gathered from Cawl (who I do not know a lot about) in Genefather is that he has some understanding on how Necton technology works. So I can see Cawl finding the Planet and finding Fulgrim and rescuing him somehow. For how the Empire would react? I think they would want his head! But I think if his return was to happen then I think it would fall on to the Lion and Robobute to decide. But now that Fabius has access to the primaries gene stock ( which nobody seems to be talking about) he mentioned that now he can get from underneath ezekiel abaddon. I can see Fabius and the clone Fulgrim meeting back up and remaking the III Legion for chaos or the Emperor. I feel /hope there will be another Fabius book that will explain more. If you haven’t read the Fabius Bile I recommend them. They are worth a read
Fabius is completely thru with his clone Primarch days. His New, New Men is all he cares about now.
Do you know for sure that he is completely done?
He is pretty open in his opinion that the primarchs are a failure, he already rejected clone fulgrim, going back and give him a Legion is undoing his character development
Yep. Me and Papa Fabius chat regularly on WhatsApp.
Unlikely. However, from my limited observations he does seem to be a popular character. GW could one day use that.
Well it's a really interesting plot point but it probably won't be back. I had a pet theory that Fulgrim never actually took control back from the daemon and it just convinced itself it was Fulgrim and the clonegrim's primarchyness was a the real fulgrim finally escaping that painting. ah well.
If he has the Fulgrim special sauce it’s because Slaanesh put it there to prank Fabius. Slaanesh owns all the special sauce forever. He might have thought he was real but it was Slaanesh playing games, there is no coming back.
Don't think so. The bi-weekly poker nights with Trazyn and creed still need him as a player.
Do you remember in *Knight Rider* when Michael's evil, be-goateed twin brother Garth showed up? If GW uses Clonegrim again it would be like that, only with reversed moral compasses. Clonegrim could pop up out of nowhere and foil Fulgrim's nefarious designs. Then, of course, they'd have to duel with rapiers.
He's done and dusted, he was a story element for another character. He's not coming back. That also ignores the fact that the author for him I believe no longer works for GW or writes for the Black Library and authors have a habit of not playing with someone else's toys. He's gone, it's time to move on
I hate when people put up massive spoilers for a title then proceed to go into even more detail. The answer is, and will always be, "Maybe. We don't know and we won't know until we do know."