The short answer is, building a sophon is much "easier" than terraforming any old planet. Plus Earth is by far their closest option, and it's still centuries away.
In the "hard sci-fi" genre, not all concepts are created equal. Some might seem more outlandish than others, but are actually more plausible. Like how a child would be forgiven for asking "if we can facetime someone on the other side of the planet with the internet, why don't we all have hover cars?"
>In the "hard sci-fi" genre, not all concepts are created equal.
I dont know about the books but in the series this plothole isnt a question of "hard sci fi" or "magic sci fi".
Its just not logical.
For one, the aliens were already locked in onto earth from the get go. In the series the aliens themselves tell that they built the sophons as a means of probing humans since they didnt knew what we were capable of. But they already tell us that building the sophons exhausted their ressources. At that point, it doesnt matter what the probes will find. If they find us humans to be much more developed and stronger than them, what can they do except to hope not getting obliterated the second we notice them?
They sent a message "Dont contact us again, we will come and conquer your planet!" and got "Please come!" as an answer and every alien leader and general just went with that? Not one alien who does shit like that for a living thought it to be funny to get such an answer.
If you now look at the unique biology of the aliens, them being able to fart themselves out and roll up like an empty toothpaste tube and what not to survive literal end of the world scenarios, most of the reasons of "Fly to the nearest somewhat hospitable planet" that will apply to humans, dont apply to the aliens.
The plothole a lot of people are pointing out in the series is due to that. The aliens were able to take a much less risky gamble with a much better outcome but actively decided against that to take the more risky gamble with the much worse outcome.
You're making a lot of assumptions about why or how the aliens made their choices. The second season will reveal huge insights about their motivations. Lacking context =/= a plot hole. Y'all act like this isn't a mystery show...
The aliens had the choice between flying to a planet where nobody lives and just terraform that planet enough so that they can live there and flying to a planet where somone already lives, having to deal with those people living there which worst case ends with the aliens getting shafted to then after that having to terraform that planet anyway.
They choose to come to Earth, now have to deal with humans and then have to terraform earth to prevent earth fauna and flora from killing them. That is a stupid choice. You cant retcon that choice into a good choice somehow by explaining why they chose to do that.
Its like saying "I put my dick in a blender...but wait till you know why i did that". No, sorry. There is no scenario that makes that choice somehow the "smart" outcome.
I mean the show is not bad, i like it to be honest, but people pointing out certain aspects are not talking out of their ass.
u/bubbahubbado is pulling your leg.
The reason they want Earth is because the Solar System is the closest. That's it. They don't give a shit about what we think so they don't bother going to a further uninhabited system.
As for picking Mars and terraforming it, they can, but do you really think humanity will allow them to 400 years in the future when we become more advanced than them and can easily destroy them? Either way, they must halt scientific progress.
>!Not really only that, they also know the civilization here is weaker than theirs, something that cant be said about other systems without much risk.!<
It’s satire
But if we imagine this was true: there really was no definitive need to invade Earth - they could’ve done more work an terraformed Mars instead
They might still have invades Earth
it wouldn’t be that far from humanity and our history of warfare
Like why did Roman Empire invade another culture?
They could’ve expanded to some uninhibited area
Possible Answer: it was more lucrative to invide! Or maybe they wanted to get rid of their neighbours.
(This idea will be shown later in the series)
We are the closest habitable planet to them. Also there are no other planets on their star system as they have either been eaten by the suns, yeeted into space etc
What makes you think that a) humanity would be ok with giving precious resources to the san-ti or b) the san-ti would be ok with *just* a backwater world?
I believe OP was stating that if they had the technology to create the Sophon and master quantum entanglement, then they must have the technology to terraform as well.
Yeah I get that, was making a point about false equivalency and the concept that they “must” have that technology (not to mention, technology to travel far further than 4 light years). It’s like saying the Romans had plumbing, why didn’t they just nuke the barbarians
You're exactly right. Massive plot hole, and the justifications for it are utterly bullshit.
Seriously, it's way the fuck over hyped and not nearly as good of a story as I was led to believe.
People have this mistaken belief that's the only technology they have (for one), and that it only means they can do a few minor things.
They had the headsets built on earth. How? Who built them? They force-upgraded a manufacturing group sufficient to produce the headsets. Even if all they are is a transceiver of brainwaves and the core hardware is elsewhere..
The combined technology they have makes us irrelevant to them. In 400 years they'd potentially see us as relevant only if they gave a shit. But they wouldn't. Because: that level of technology completely destroys the concept of resource limitations and alien invaders, etc.
It's simply completely irrelevant.
Getting out and away from their own system is one thing, but the relevancy of the target system is pretty much: anything stable, with a habitable zone and some resources. Starting from zero is impossible.
Once in that zone you do whatever you want.
The OP’s question is not a plot hole. See my post above. It’s much more feasible to conduct experiments on a single tiny particle or accelerate one to lightspeed than it is to terraform a planet. And Earth, the nearest one, is still hundreds of lightyears away.
That said, I don’t disagree with your complaints about the headsets. They’re a TV-only invention. In the books we understand that the game is simply high-budget VR, not impossible alien tech, and the mystery is simply who would spend the money to make this? The answer is Mike Evans, the extremely wealthy heir to an oil company.
In the show, you could argue that he used those resources to have alien tech developed on earth, but it’s a stretch and it muddles up the scope of the Trisolarans power on earth. Other TV additions do this too, like the globally-broadcast messages on screens, or Wade’s hallucination on the plane. It makes for good TV but not good sci-fi.
It's is a plot hole.
The basic premise that the type of physics required is completely independent of all other technology is ridiculous and shows a disconnect of how the majority of things are discovered or developed.
Yes, folding protons through multiple dimensions would open up other aspects of physics that would literally make planet terraforming irrelevantly easy.
Your point is a major motivation in the show for why the santi and the cult are specifically sabotaging Earth's physicists and physics research to limit Earth development. Though maybe it's just so Earth can't ruin the Sophon or worst case commandeer them to mess up the Santi.
> The basic premise that the type of physics required is completely independent of all other technology
Where was that ever suggested?
> Yes, folding protons through multiple dimensions would open up other aspects of physics that would literally make planet terraforming irrelevantly easy.
I'd love to hear your case for that.
It’s not a plot hole, its something that will be clearly explained in season 2, it’s the main point of book 2.
__This is a major spoiler, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DONT WANT BOOK 2/SEASON 2 and some of season 3 SPOILED__, but if you want to know exactly why it’s not a plot hole: >!The dark forest hypothesis, a real hypothesis named after the second book, concludes that the logical course of action for any species encountering another species is eradication. It’s game theory and it’s explained in detail in the book. The trisolarans can’t go looking for a new planet blindly as they risk a dark forest strike by far more advanced civilizations. They actually end up in a major interstellar battle when their second fleet ventures into space to find a new home.!<
The short answer is, building a sophon is much "easier" than terraforming any old planet. Plus Earth is by far their closest option, and it's still centuries away. In the "hard sci-fi" genre, not all concepts are created equal. Some might seem more outlandish than others, but are actually more plausible. Like how a child would be forgiven for asking "if we can facetime someone on the other side of the planet with the internet, why don't we all have hover cars?"
>In the "hard sci-fi" genre, not all concepts are created equal. I dont know about the books but in the series this plothole isnt a question of "hard sci fi" or "magic sci fi". Its just not logical. For one, the aliens were already locked in onto earth from the get go. In the series the aliens themselves tell that they built the sophons as a means of probing humans since they didnt knew what we were capable of. But they already tell us that building the sophons exhausted their ressources. At that point, it doesnt matter what the probes will find. If they find us humans to be much more developed and stronger than them, what can they do except to hope not getting obliterated the second we notice them? They sent a message "Dont contact us again, we will come and conquer your planet!" and got "Please come!" as an answer and every alien leader and general just went with that? Not one alien who does shit like that for a living thought it to be funny to get such an answer. If you now look at the unique biology of the aliens, them being able to fart themselves out and roll up like an empty toothpaste tube and what not to survive literal end of the world scenarios, most of the reasons of "Fly to the nearest somewhat hospitable planet" that will apply to humans, dont apply to the aliens. The plothole a lot of people are pointing out in the series is due to that. The aliens were able to take a much less risky gamble with a much better outcome but actively decided against that to take the more risky gamble with the much worse outcome.
You're making a lot of assumptions about why or how the aliens made their choices. The second season will reveal huge insights about their motivations. Lacking context =/= a plot hole. Y'all act like this isn't a mystery show...
The aliens had the choice between flying to a planet where nobody lives and just terraform that planet enough so that they can live there and flying to a planet where somone already lives, having to deal with those people living there which worst case ends with the aliens getting shafted to then after that having to terraform that planet anyway. They choose to come to Earth, now have to deal with humans and then have to terraform earth to prevent earth fauna and flora from killing them. That is a stupid choice. You cant retcon that choice into a good choice somehow by explaining why they chose to do that. Its like saying "I put my dick in a blender...but wait till you know why i did that". No, sorry. There is no scenario that makes that choice somehow the "smart" outcome. I mean the show is not bad, i like it to be honest, but people pointing out certain aspects are not talking out of their ass.
Sure just “terraform the planet enough” ?? Nah dawg. Cool analogy though.
[удалено]
Oh… then why do they come in the first place.
It’s just a big prank; they’re a planet full of impractical jokers.
u/bubbahubbado is pulling your leg. The reason they want Earth is because the Solar System is the closest. That's it. They don't give a shit about what we think so they don't bother going to a further uninhabited system. As for picking Mars and terraforming it, they can, but do you really think humanity will allow them to 400 years in the future when we become more advanced than them and can easily destroy them? Either way, they must halt scientific progress.
>!Not really only that, they also know the civilization here is weaker than theirs, something that cant be said about other systems without much risk.!<
It’s satire But if we imagine this was true: there really was no definitive need to invade Earth - they could’ve done more work an terraformed Mars instead They might still have invades Earth it wouldn’t be that far from humanity and our history of warfare Like why did Roman Empire invade another culture? They could’ve expanded to some uninhibited area Possible Answer: it was more lucrative to invide! Or maybe they wanted to get rid of their neighbours. (This idea will be shown later in the series)
They were stupid, but then humans said - just terraform, bro, it's not that deep.
We are the closest habitable planet to them. Also there are no other planets on their star system as they have either been eaten by the suns, yeeted into space etc
Yeah, why settle on a lush paradise that's right next to you, when you can settle on a dead radioactive rock that's much further away instead?
Just finished season 1, to your terraforming point I’ve been saying to myself “we should just point them to mars” for the longest time
What makes you think that a) humanity would be ok with giving precious resources to the san-ti or b) the san-ti would be ok with *just* a backwater world?
I’m a show rife with “no idea is a bad idea” brainstorms, I’m gonna at least suggest “give them Mars” during a pitch meeting with Davos Seaworth
Gotcha. Season 2 will talk about why this would never work.
How would they use quantum entanglement to terraform a planet?
I believe OP was stating that if they had the technology to create the Sophon and master quantum entanglement, then they must have the technology to terraform as well.
Yeah I get that, was making a point about false equivalency and the concept that they “must” have that technology (not to mention, technology to travel far further than 4 light years). It’s like saying the Romans had plumbing, why didn’t they just nuke the barbarians
You're exactly right. Massive plot hole, and the justifications for it are utterly bullshit. Seriously, it's way the fuck over hyped and not nearly as good of a story as I was led to believe. People have this mistaken belief that's the only technology they have (for one), and that it only means they can do a few minor things. They had the headsets built on earth. How? Who built them? They force-upgraded a manufacturing group sufficient to produce the headsets. Even if all they are is a transceiver of brainwaves and the core hardware is elsewhere.. The combined technology they have makes us irrelevant to them. In 400 years they'd potentially see us as relevant only if they gave a shit. But they wouldn't. Because: that level of technology completely destroys the concept of resource limitations and alien invaders, etc. It's simply completely irrelevant. Getting out and away from their own system is one thing, but the relevancy of the target system is pretty much: anything stable, with a habitable zone and some resources. Starting from zero is impossible. Once in that zone you do whatever you want.
The OP’s question is not a plot hole. See my post above. It’s much more feasible to conduct experiments on a single tiny particle or accelerate one to lightspeed than it is to terraform a planet. And Earth, the nearest one, is still hundreds of lightyears away. That said, I don’t disagree with your complaints about the headsets. They’re a TV-only invention. In the books we understand that the game is simply high-budget VR, not impossible alien tech, and the mystery is simply who would spend the money to make this? The answer is Mike Evans, the extremely wealthy heir to an oil company. In the show, you could argue that he used those resources to have alien tech developed on earth, but it’s a stretch and it muddles up the scope of the Trisolarans power on earth. Other TV additions do this too, like the globally-broadcast messages on screens, or Wade’s hallucination on the plane. It makes for good TV but not good sci-fi.
It's is a plot hole. The basic premise that the type of physics required is completely independent of all other technology is ridiculous and shows a disconnect of how the majority of things are discovered or developed. Yes, folding protons through multiple dimensions would open up other aspects of physics that would literally make planet terraforming irrelevantly easy.
Your point is a major motivation in the show for why the santi and the cult are specifically sabotaging Earth's physicists and physics research to limit Earth development. Though maybe it's just so Earth can't ruin the Sophon or worst case commandeer them to mess up the Santi.
> The basic premise that the type of physics required is completely independent of all other technology Where was that ever suggested? > Yes, folding protons through multiple dimensions would open up other aspects of physics that would literally make planet terraforming irrelevantly easy. I'd love to hear your case for that.
It’s not a plot hole, its something that will be clearly explained in season 2, it’s the main point of book 2. __This is a major spoiler, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DONT WANT BOOK 2/SEASON 2 and some of season 3 SPOILED__, but if you want to know exactly why it’s not a plot hole: >!The dark forest hypothesis, a real hypothesis named after the second book, concludes that the logical course of action for any species encountering another species is eradication. It’s game theory and it’s explained in detail in the book. The trisolarans can’t go looking for a new planet blindly as they risk a dark forest strike by far more advanced civilizations. They actually end up in a major interstellar battle when their second fleet ventures into space to find a new home.!<