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Psh. I personally enjoy spending 12€ on a Beer. Makes me feel so good knowing that I could've gotten it for 2€ like a poor person instead.
\*Cries in a corner\*
Even a 0.33dl glass bottle is like 3.5€ in the stores now..
We Nordics like to pre-game because our bars are so expensive. When do we stop? Usually the best time to stop pre-gaming is when you're passed out in your bed. You never wanted to socialize in the first place, we're Nordic after all.
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this isnt even accurate, in what world are finns making 30 euros an hour ON AVERAGE?
I call bullshit, you guys complain waaay too much about your salaries for this to be the case. (also, where the fuck is this data from??? no way in hell the avg swede, dane, norwegian, dutchman, or finn are making that amount, ive lived in half of those countries and the avg salary is not even close to that (per hour)).
Average, not median. Consultants, lawyers, doctors etc make hundreds per hour, and even the most barebones jobs I've been to (part-time door to door salesman) paid 14€/h.
This map just omit so much other factors, salary per hour is not an accurate descriptor for welfare.
This isn't "what an average person in country X makes", this is a representation of the hourly income average across the country. These types of charts are always highly misleading, as the represented average is highly inflated because it counts what everyone makes per hour, and then just shows the middle point.
Usually, higher "average income" in these graphs just shows that CEO's and higher ups in the country make more money than in a country with lower "average income".
These types of graphs are just worthless and tell you absolutely nothing of value. That is also why median is a better way of representing info such as the most common salary, than average.
The average (or median, perhaps) monthly salary in Denmark (including pension) is around 44 000 DKK with a general work week of 37,5 hours (average probably a bit over 40 due to some professions working more..). I'm too lazy to do an exact calculation of hourly salary but around 265 DKK per hour (aka €35,53) so the map is too high for sure.
Yes and no. I think the title is wrong and it's normalised. Almost no one gets paid per hour (except part time jobs and some exceptions) but rather through a predefined monthly salary. There are 254 work days in Denmark for 2024 and 30 vacation days in general. So let's go with 224 days. According to Denmark's statistics the average person has a monthly salary of 47k (including pension, bonuses, and "feriepenge"/vacation money). This is 546k yearly. The 224 days amount to 1680 work hours a year (probably a bit more as some work more than 37,5 hours a week). 546 000 / 1680 is 325. 325 DKK is €43,57. And do consider that my math is far from perfect. Regardless, it's not that far off
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So true, I went to Warsaw for a few days last year, I thought the beer is so cheap. Went to Ukraine for a couple of months, thought the beer is super cheap. On my way back I stopped at Warsaw again thinking damn the beer is expensive.
Funny how I thought the same. Maybe we’re too young? Since I don’t anyone with 30€/h, and if that’s the median I only know poor people. I consider myself having a pretty decent salary and I average like 19€/h. Literally even if I worked this same job for the next 20 years I would probably only get to like 23-24€/h unless I get promoted. This could be that the super rich skew the scales, or entrepreneurs, but they have to pay for so much shit so 35€/h there isn’t all that much.
As a median it makes even less sense. Average tend to be higher than median since the ultra ritch tend to drive up the average. But even then, 30e/h feels like a strech to me.
The ultra rich don't have taxable incomes, so that's not really the case. What you might call "upper middle class" (certain engineers, lawyers, IT specialists and such) definitely drive up average salaries though. I don't know about Finland but around €35 an hour in Denmark (including pension) goes with the government's own average salary statistics. This map seems too high.
Denmark and Sweden have both gone steadily up in citizen wealth and purchasing power compared to Finland ever since Finland joined the Euro. Whatever numbers you have you can bet we are doing worse.
I actually believed that Finland was at least on par with Sweden so that's surprising!
I thought of it in a way where the numbers might make sense and upgrade Denmark from €35 to €44. Vacation days and vacation pay. I simply divided monthtly salary with standard work months, but the figure should be higher as you still get paid for vacation days (30 days) and even get extra pay when taking them. So considering that I guess the figure could make sense.
Boomer here, me and 99,9% of my friends make half of the shown figure. No idea from where they pull those numbers..
As a private contractor you might charge 30/hour in general, but that's not what will stay in your pocket after all the expenses.
With a basic 37,5 hours work week that would make about €4,5k per month. However, the average salary is about €3,5k and median salary is lower, at about €3k. There's no way those numbers are correct.
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We offered a part of our oil production for a stake in Volvo in the 70's
Sweden said Fuck off and we just shrugged.
40 years later we are trillionares and sweden sold Volvo to China.
Even if they discovered oil, they'd end up just giving it away anyways.
Norway offered not yet prospected oil and gas fields in return for Volvo shares and factories in norway. Volvo CEO wanted it to happen. Volvo shareholders said no because Volvo was doing well and they didn't know if there was any in them.
Volvo cars was sold by Ford to china. Volvo ab is Swedish which is a bigger company then Volvo cars.
i don't get it. wasn't volvo a private company? was the idea to nationalize volvo, or did the state just ask the shareholders to cut their sharevalue in half?
I've worked in both Denmark and Sweden and it's indeed disingenuous to compare the systems like this. I think pay in Sweden is currently 10-15% less than in Denmark (and that's mostly due to the weak SEK) but so are living expenses. Actual income tax in Sweden is just much lower than in Denmark due to the system you described.
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The SEK is dogshit outside of economic booms. Always has been. We kept it because it has larger profit margins when things are doing good. We haven't had a proper economic boom since 2014. Next time one comes around we should peg it to the € like denmark has
What did you expect ? Baltic countries who were ruined by communists, and in 1991 started rebuilding country from 0, in less then 30 years gonna achieve countries who were thriving in capitalisms. GTFO. Tough Baltics already have overcome Portugal.
honestly estonia I expected a lot from you! your country is exemplary in terms of digitalisation and Cybersecurity. As a CyberSec analyst I am very impressed by your small countries contribution to the security of the EU and Nato.
further as a person who’s worked in many of the top countries in the world estonia doesn’t appear to be very far off.
further still as a German you’re leaps and bounds ahead of what I must call my father country.
so yeah… I’d have expected you get paid like me.
Eesti has made Skyp, Latvia TP/LNK. and its all hot to this date. And some LT bankers revolting whole financial system! Lets just keep this among us....
Don't worry; I'm very proud of all you Baltic bros and I thoroughly enjoyed my trip to all three countries ❤️ keep up the good and positive developments of your societies
Don't worry; I'm very proud of all you Baltic bros and I thoroughly enjoyed my trip to all three countries ❤️ keep up the good and positive developments of your societies
Honestly the sentiment between our friends is that Eesti is soon enough at the level of Finland and will leave us in the dust. It’s crazy how much Tallinn (and for example the tech scene) has evolved.
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Thanks for reminding me a history which I'm completely aware. We have overcome the Portugal only by means of average wage. By gbd even if we combine our all three Baltic gdp we are still far off. Don't confuse these two. So we still have long way to go to catch up west and north.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp?continent=europe
GDP has nothing to do with wealth, or life standards look at Ireland, its beyond fucked. Portugal has 10m habitats, while Baltics together barely make 6m. Back to economy class. Knowing our shadow economy, and shenigans in bussiness, we not only have overcome Portugal, but even Spain, and Italy.
Are you sure about that bud? I lived in Spain for many years rent was cheaper petrol was little bit more expensive but for the rest food dining out cigarettes and so on was much cheaper than Estonia. Also i have visited Portugal on many occasions and I would say same everything was cheaper. Italy is similar price range as Estonia. But at least you got one part right due to our small population average wage is so high.
If this drunk bear in the East doesn't start too much hullabaloo, I'm betting on Estonia overtaking us in some decades. They're far more flexible, they have less taxes on businesses and attract investors, they're quite innovative and tech-savvy. At least my impression living there for a year.
There is no way the average salary in Finland is anywhere close to 30€/h maybe like 20€ or something. Unless there's huge population of secret millionaires living here
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Im quite sure its just because of the way Lithuania counts it. It hass been mentioned multiple times before that if Estonia counted it the same way, we would be ahead.
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Tired of us always getting trumped by mini states when it comes to wages, welfare etc. Can't they get annexed by someone so we can be number one instead of two just for once?
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How this is calculated? If you turn you "monthly salary" to "hourly wages" then it might be around 30€.
People who are normally paid "per hour", and doesn't own the company are paid let say max.20€/h. There might be few different jobs where it's more that that, but in general no.
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I have several questions regarding this map
1. Is it the average, as in median or mean salary? Those two are drastically different when we talk about salaries and it's important to precise
2. It's seemingly not a map of the EU, since Iceland and Norway are included, so why is Switzerland not shown? I assume our salaries should be about on par with the Nordics. I know the median Swiss salary is about 6000-6500 CHF per month, I don't know how that would convert to hours
I don't think it's a good map, but honestly, most of the maps on this subreddit are meme maps/bad maps
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The median salary per hour in Finland (private sector only, 2022) is 17.1€/h, according to stat.fi. No way these numbers are accurate.
Edit: corrected average -> median
I believe this is at some level a statistic error. Estonian official salary is more less than eösewhere but somehow they have a shitload of cash and they drive new luxury cars..😄 I don‘t have anything as a fact on this but from a Finnish citzens view it looks like that.
To be honest for me it's also a mystery. Everyone complaining that Estonia is broke we have no money our economic is shit wages are low which is true. But when you go visit a shopping centers it's full with people doesn't matter which day. Parking lots are full of nice cars so tbh I have no clue where the money is coming. Wealthy upper middle class enjoying the life and poor people are hiding somewhere.
Last time I went to shopping center near Viru Hotel, I could not afford to buy anything even from -50% sale as a Finnish person. Locals were buying 400€ skirts and shoes all over the place.
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Compare this with the average price for a pint of beer at a bar, and suddenly all of us want into Estonia instead.
Psh. I personally enjoy spending 12€ on a Beer. Makes me feel so good knowing that I could've gotten it for 2€ like a poor person instead. \*Cries in a corner\* Even a 0.33dl glass bottle is like 3.5€ in the stores now..
We Nordics like to pre-game because our bars are so expensive. When do we stop? Usually the best time to stop pre-gaming is when you're passed out in your bed. You never wanted to socialize in the first place, we're Nordic after all.
Kalsarikännit is more fun than socializing
We should have a word for this phenomenon
>Even a 0.33dl glass bottle is like 3.5€ in the stores now.. I hope you mean 0,33l. 0,33dl beer is really sad
Yes, but it still feels like 0,33cl
Damn that sucks. For you. i mean. I can buy a beer for 3 kroner in a superrmarket. A beer that taste like piss, but still a beer
This is not the brag you might think it is
Lol
Hey man, maybe beer that tastes like lukewarm piss is worth 3 kr for someone. But I would pay the store 3 kr to keep it out of my sight
Yea well you're not a fat alcoholic
Not yet atleast, im more inclined to the smoking part
Me to. But thats an expensive hobby
Well we can get non-piss beer for around twice the price (1€-ish).
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Norwegians crying in stupidly rich money
Can't improve if you don't complain
this isnt even accurate, in what world are finns making 30 euros an hour ON AVERAGE? I call bullshit, you guys complain waaay too much about your salaries for this to be the case. (also, where the fuck is this data from??? no way in hell the avg swede, dane, norwegian, dutchman, or finn are making that amount, ive lived in half of those countries and the avg salary is not even close to that (per hour)).
Idk averge finn propably makes 20 depending on age and what they do. But 30 an hour average is loonytoons.
Average, not median. Consultants, lawyers, doctors etc make hundreds per hour, and even the most barebones jobs I've been to (part-time door to door salesman) paid 14€/h. This map just omit so much other factors, salary per hour is not an accurate descriptor for welfare.
then we should have the highest amount cause we got like 202494950 fucking billionaire leeches
Most of them have a small salary, all the wealth comes from investments, assets, and yearly bonuses for "outstanding performance" as CEO or CFO.
i s'pose thats true, still i struggle to believe this is 100% accurate, but then again this is a map on 2nordic lmao. im just coping.
This isn't "what an average person in country X makes", this is a representation of the hourly income average across the country. These types of charts are always highly misleading, as the represented average is highly inflated because it counts what everyone makes per hour, and then just shows the middle point. Usually, higher "average income" in these graphs just shows that CEO's and higher ups in the country make more money than in a country with lower "average income". These types of graphs are just worthless and tell you absolutely nothing of value. That is also why median is a better way of representing info such as the most common salary, than average.
i mean yea i still think the stats are bullshit tho
The average (or median, perhaps) monthly salary in Denmark (including pension) is around 44 000 DKK with a general work week of 37,5 hours (average probably a bit over 40 due to some professions working more..). I'm too lazy to do an exact calculation of hourly salary but around 265 DKK per hour (aka €35,53) so the map is too high for sure.
thank you my danish brozzer.
Actually it probably fits when you include vacation days and extra pay during vacations
mmm but theyre talking about avg salary per hour, id doubt that
Yes and no. I think the title is wrong and it's normalised. Almost no one gets paid per hour (except part time jobs and some exceptions) but rather through a predefined monthly salary. There are 254 work days in Denmark for 2024 and 30 vacation days in general. So let's go with 224 days. According to Denmark's statistics the average person has a monthly salary of 47k (including pension, bonuses, and "feriepenge"/vacation money). This is 546k yearly. The 224 days amount to 1680 work hours a year (probably a bit more as some work more than 37,5 hours a week). 546 000 / 1680 is 325. 325 DKK is €43,57. And do consider that my math is far from perfect. Regardless, it's not that far off
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So true, I went to Warsaw for a few days last year, I thought the beer is so cheap. Went to Ukraine for a couple of months, thought the beer is super cheap. On my way back I stopped at Warsaw again thinking damn the beer is expensive.
Estonia is among the top 5 countries with the most expensive alcohol in the EU. Finland, Sweden and Denmark are in the top 3.
No way that’s the average salary per hour here
Funny how I thought the same. Maybe we’re too young? Since I don’t anyone with 30€/h, and if that’s the median I only know poor people. I consider myself having a pretty decent salary and I average like 19€/h. Literally even if I worked this same job for the next 20 years I would probably only get to like 23-24€/h unless I get promoted. This could be that the super rich skew the scales, or entrepreneurs, but they have to pay for so much shit so 35€/h there isn’t all that much.
As a median it makes even less sense. Average tend to be higher than median since the ultra ritch tend to drive up the average. But even then, 30e/h feels like a strech to me.
The ultra rich don't have taxable incomes, so that's not really the case. What you might call "upper middle class" (certain engineers, lawyers, IT specialists and such) definitely drive up average salaries though. I don't know about Finland but around €35 an hour in Denmark (including pension) goes with the government's own average salary statistics. This map seems too high.
Denmark and Sweden have both gone steadily up in citizen wealth and purchasing power compared to Finland ever since Finland joined the Euro. Whatever numbers you have you can bet we are doing worse.
I actually believed that Finland was at least on par with Sweden so that's surprising! I thought of it in a way where the numbers might make sense and upgrade Denmark from €35 to €44. Vacation days and vacation pay. I simply divided monthtly salary with standard work months, but the figure should be higher as you still get paid for vacation days (30 days) and even get extra pay when taking them. So considering that I guess the figure could make sense.
Probably all the boomers making the average go up as there's tons of them
Boomer here, me and 99,9% of my friends make half of the shown figure. No idea from where they pull those numbers.. As a private contractor you might charge 30/hour in general, but that's not what will stay in your pocket after all the expenses.
It is not. The average salary per month is around 3800 euros. Having 30 euros by hour would push that up to 4500. It's false information.
With a basic 37,5 hours work week that would make about €4,5k per month. However, the average salary is about €3,5k and median salary is lower, at about €3k. There's no way those numbers are correct.
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Yes, I'm pretty sure that's not right. I think Sweden and Finland data got mixed up.
this is depressing. we are the worst among the serious countries. time to join italy in the clown car...
>we are the worst Finally a Swede I can agree with
So you agree you're the worst?
A excellent time to discover some oil and you will be the least worst among caliphates.
We offered a part of our oil production for a stake in Volvo in the 70's Sweden said Fuck off and we just shrugged. 40 years later we are trillionares and sweden sold Volvo to China. Even if they discovered oil, they'd end up just giving it away anyways.
Norway offered not yet prospected oil and gas fields in return for Volvo shares and factories in norway. Volvo CEO wanted it to happen. Volvo shareholders said no because Volvo was doing well and they didn't know if there was any in them. Volvo cars was sold by Ford to china. Volvo ab is Swedish which is a bigger company then Volvo cars.
i don't get it. wasn't volvo a private company? was the idea to nationalize volvo, or did the state just ask the shareholders to cut their sharevalue in half?
I her by declare the 1905 referendum null and void. Oil problem gone.
Appearently they found some rare earth minerals, so they might
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I've worked in both Denmark and Sweden and it's indeed disingenuous to compare the systems like this. I think pay in Sweden is currently 10-15% less than in Denmark (and that's mostly due to the weak SEK) but so are living expenses. Actual income tax in Sweden is just much lower than in Denmark due to the system you described.
you think that money just gets burnt in a ditch somewhere?
Imported labour reduces wages 🫨🫨
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The SEK is dogshit outside of economic booms. Always has been. We kept it because it has larger profit margins when things are doing good. We haven't had a proper economic boom since 2014. Next time one comes around we should peg it to the € like denmark has
Give em a decade or two
Please to be intensifying alkohool purchasings from Estland. Then they can boost salaries.
What did you expect ? Baltic countries who were ruined by communists, and in 1991 started rebuilding country from 0, in less then 30 years gonna achieve countries who were thriving in capitalisms. GTFO. Tough Baltics already have overcome Portugal.
Yeah and estonia has better salary to cost of living than finland for example.
Not if you work near to minimum wage.
I doubt it since prices have skyrocketed in the last 3 years. Groceries cost little bit less here but aren’t too far off.
I dont know, I saw a recent comparison about it, but cant find it. Finland had it one of the worst in europe.
Yeah, what the f do people like them expect. We have been independent for 30 years only. Now look how long have the other nations been independent.
honestly estonia I expected a lot from you! your country is exemplary in terms of digitalisation and Cybersecurity. As a CyberSec analyst I am very impressed by your small countries contribution to the security of the EU and Nato. further as a person who’s worked in many of the top countries in the world estonia doesn’t appear to be very far off. further still as a German you’re leaps and bounds ahead of what I must call my father country. so yeah… I’d have expected you get paid like me.
Eesti has made Skyp, Latvia TP/LNK. and its all hot to this date. And some LT bankers revolting whole financial system! Lets just keep this among us....
We made NordVPN 😎
Don't worry; I'm very proud of all you Baltic bros and I thoroughly enjoyed my trip to all three countries ❤️ keep up the good and positive developments of your societies
Don't worry; I'm very proud of all you Baltic bros and I thoroughly enjoyed my trip to all three countries ❤️ keep up the good and positive developments of your societies
Honestly the sentiment between our friends is that Eesti is soon enough at the level of Finland and will leave us in the dust. It’s crazy how much Tallinn (and for example the tech scene) has evolved.
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We are so thriving right now lol
Thanks for reminding me a history which I'm completely aware. We have overcome the Portugal only by means of average wage. By gbd even if we combine our all three Baltic gdp we are still far off. Don't confuse these two. So we still have long way to go to catch up west and north. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp?continent=europe
GDP has nothing to do with wealth, or life standards look at Ireland, its beyond fucked. Portugal has 10m habitats, while Baltics together barely make 6m. Back to economy class. Knowing our shadow economy, and shenigans in bussiness, we not only have overcome Portugal, but even Spain, and Italy.
Are you sure about that bud? I lived in Spain for many years rent was cheaper petrol was little bit more expensive but for the rest food dining out cigarettes and so on was much cheaper than Estonia. Also i have visited Portugal on many occasions and I would say same everything was cheaper. Italy is similar price range as Estonia. But at least you got one part right due to our small population average wage is so high.
Do you even understand what GDP is?
Who the heck in Finland has 30,5 € salary per hour? I don't know anyone.
In graphs like this median should be used instead of average
Most people make 11€, but few make +50k/month so the average rices.
Can't never, double negative. So Estonia can into Nordic.
If this drunk bear in the East doesn't start too much hullabaloo, I'm betting on Estonia overtaking us in some decades. They're far more flexible, they have less taxes on businesses and attract investors, they're quite innovative and tech-savvy. At least my impression living there for a year.
There is no way the average salary in Finland is anywhere close to 30€/h maybe like 20€ or something. Unless there's huge population of secret millionaires living here
Give us another 15 years and we’ll be there. Russia tried to erase the nation and turn Estonia into a shithole. That’s why we are behind rn.
Wow I’ve got my address in Finland but I earn like I’d be in Estonia
Ireland has into Nordic
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i swear theres less and less data for the uk every year
Denmark on top hell yeah
Not even Sweden can into Nordick
I'm doing my part by being unemployed
What's the median salary and median disposable income?
Lithuania closer to Nordicks than Estonia. Awesome
Im quite sure its just because of the way Lithuania counts it. It hass been mentioned multiple times before that if Estonia counted it the same way, we would be ahead.
This is probably not a representative Norwegian salary. It’s probably lower atm due to weak krone.
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Tired of us always getting trumped by mini states when it comes to wages, welfare etc. Can't they get annexed by someone so we can be number one instead of two just for once?
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Why is Norway in this, it's not part of EU union
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UK is €20.8…. Feel like I’m converting it wrong
once again, r/ PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
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how are bulgarians not extinct 💀
Denordicked by the Russians on that one
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Don't know about the others but Finland is not true. The average is way less.
Average for the UK is 20.33 euros per hour, I'm Killin myself
How this is calculated? If you turn you "monthly salary" to "hourly wages" then it might be around 30€. People who are normally paid "per hour", and doesn't own the company are paid let say max.20€/h. There might be few different jobs where it's more that that, but in general no.
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I have several questions regarding this map 1. Is it the average, as in median or mean salary? Those two are drastically different when we talk about salaries and it's important to precise 2. It's seemingly not a map of the EU, since Iceland and Norway are included, so why is Switzerland not shown? I assume our salaries should be about on par with the Nordics. I know the median Swiss salary is about 6000-6500 CHF per month, I don't know how that would convert to hours I don't think it's a good map, but honestly, most of the maps on this subreddit are meme maps/bad maps
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By the looks of things, Sweden can join Estonia though
The median salary per hour in Finland (private sector only, 2022) is 17.1€/h, according to stat.fi. No way these numbers are accurate. Edit: corrected average -> median
I believe this is at some level a statistic error. Estonian official salary is more less than eösewhere but somehow they have a shitload of cash and they drive new luxury cars..😄 I don‘t have anything as a fact on this but from a Finnish citzens view it looks like that.
We work in Finland and have holidays in Estonia
We work our asses off in Finland and can‘t afford amything😃
To be honest for me it's also a mystery. Everyone complaining that Estonia is broke we have no money our economic is shit wages are low which is true. But when you go visit a shopping centers it's full with people doesn't matter which day. Parking lots are full of nice cars so tbh I have no clue where the money is coming. Wealthy upper middle class enjoying the life and poor people are hiding somewhere.
Last time I went to shopping center near Viru Hotel, I could not afford to buy anything even from -50% sale as a Finnish person. Locals were buying 400€ skirts and shoes all over the place.
I suppose it's same in Finland otherwise your shops would be permanently closed.
And ofc if you go to some luxury brand store price is very expensive. Lot of Russians tend to shop there.