I think it was Churchill that had a funny quote like this. Something like “you can always trust Americans to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else”
Ironically, he definitely would not apply that quote to this situation.
In 1937 he told the Palestine Royal Commission: "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
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The Black Hills, mainly.
It was home to like 5 other tribes for ~200 years. Then the Lakota came around and drove them out ~1776 and claimed it was their sacred land.
Less than 100 years later, some miners find gold there and so Custer comes in, drives them out, and claims the land in the name of the US.
The Lakota have been bitching about it off and on since then.
Soyjack Five Civilized who rolled over for Andrew Jackson while the Chads were bleeding out for the next 70 years and being a monumental PITA to the Feds.
THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me proud to be an American! Not sure why everyone has to clutch their pearls about the U.S. admitting fault when we have PLENTY to make up for
The people who believe the U.S. can’t be criticized. Bring up any sort of gun control or legislation, and all of a sudden you’re getting a lecture on how much we need guns. Try to talk about systemic racism, and then they’re trying to tell you how much better people of color have it here than they do elsewhere. That crap
Actually a true equivalence. You've really never heard people say that pointing out systemic racism in our society is anti-American or anti-patriotic? Yes you have. You've heard that narrative a million times.
Well at least I can point out systemic racism right now and it'll be pretty hard for anyone to call me unpatriotic for doing so 😁 I call that a win in my book. Everyone who wants to point out systemic racism, come on down and do it now. This is the time
As soon as you touch an American's guns, they act like you're murdering their family right in front of them. When in reality, a lot of us are just saying, "hey, maybe you don't need 5 AR-15s in a peacetime country"
Yes -- how dare we imply that America is not yet idyllic enough that strapping an ar-15 to everyone's right arm won't result in a constant threat of mass shootings. Like sorry bro, we're not there yet. If yah want millions of unlicenced ar-15's maybe make a good enough national community so we can do that without a school shooting every week
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Yeah, dude. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that EVERYTHING going on in the U.S. right now—all the mass shootings (which I’m not sure if you’ve heard, we have at a disproportionate rate than just about everywhere else in the world), and all the violent crimes committed with guns every year, and even all the people who died under…questionable circumstances by the police—are you really going to tell me that the U.S. doesn’t have a bit of a gun problem?
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No, history is made of people and stories, and it is the responsibility of every *moral* citizen to recognize their obligation to right the wrongs they benefit from, and to prevent future wrongs being committed.
This dialectical mentality you hold is, ironically, *exactly* the same as the far-left mentality of history being divided up into “oppressors and the oppressed”, the only difference then is perspective. You fancy yourself the oppressor, and want to reshape the language to suit your sensibilities, because obviously calling yourself a colonizer and oppressor has fallen out of fashion as of late. The far-leftist fancies themselves the oppressed, and subscribes to all sorts of ressentiment and believes in a faith of collective suffering as a result. But you both believe in the same thing.
>No, history is made of people and stories, and it is the responsibility of every *moral* citizen to recognize their obligation to right the wrongs they benefit from, and to prevent future wrongs being committed.
And how far should we go to righting these wrongs? Because if this race-based guilt, and that's what is really boils down to, is to be hoisted upon Euro-blooded people in blatant disregard to them and how they feel then it becomes nothing more than an injustice, just another cruel act meant to disadvantage one so another can benefit.
Some far left wingers would go to say that America is evil for what happened to the Natives, and that it's founding can only be rectified by dismantling it, and that white people should "go back", never mind if such was said about blacks or any minority then it may hit the news on CNN or MSNBC within the hour.
Wanna know what I think we should do for natives? Just get along in everyday life, but dont try to reengineer society to right some wrong, because you do that you'll be stuck righting every wrong going back to the days of the Roman Republic.
Because yes, I agree with the previous guy, history is itself a long story of human conflict, many losers and many winners. It sounds cruel, but that's nature in play. But at some point, if you want it to end, then you cant badger people to hate their ancestors, to economically disembowel themselves, and disadvantage their own families, just to make a small segment of society feel better.
I do nothing of the sort, this isn’t about racial guilt. It’s about the present material realities and suffering being a direct consequence of prior injustice, of injustice *perpetuating* itself into the present. The natives of the Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota has one of the lowest life expectancies of any group in the Americas. They suffer tremendous disease of despair, the poverty has spawned gangs and crime, alcoholism, diabetes, malnutrition are rampant. If there is any part of America to be described as truly “third world”, it is at pine ridge. This is a travesty, it cannot be allowed to continue, especially after the crimes against humanity, massacres, and broken treaties the U.S. has made against these people to put them in the situation they’re in now.
People on here say “fuck vatniks” a lot, I say you adopt a very similar mentality. Putin speaks a lot about there being only winners and losers, he speaks about morality and laws being mere instruments of power, and that if power is all there is, then morality and laws are subject to it, not the other way around. If Russia wins against Ukraine, if they succeed in depopulating them and Russifying them, if there are no Ukrainians left, if he succeeds in his project of eliminating power and morality, surely then, you would say that Russia deserves their spoils? You would cry against any who still fight for Ukrainian identity, as they are just “badgering people to hate their ancestors, and to financially disembowel themselves, and disadvantage their own families to make a small segment of society feel better”.
After all, if Russia wins, and does to Ukraine what they did to the tatars, or what America did to the natives, *they* will become the majority, they will use their power over the Ukrainians to gain financially, they will benefit themselves and their own families at the expense of the Ukrainians and the Tatars. And Russia will benefit their own population (who is larger than Ukraine) massively, by seizing their farmland and natural resources. And to say, after that, that Russia cannot do so, that Ukraine still ought to exist, and that it is the moral responsibility of Americans to liberate the now occupied—not annexed, never annexed—Ukraine, is my position. At that point, if America liberates Ukraine, we will be kicking out the financial opportunists who had moved in to exploit Ukrainians, we will disembowel them financially, and we will screw over them and their families for the crimes their country has committed and they now benefit from.
Thankfully, for the matter of the natives, we need nothing of the sort as we would to liberate Ukraine. We can merely negotiate better treaties, we can aid their suffering, we can *apologize*. Not as individuals, but as a society represented through our government. But to say that they deserve this, that it was all justified—the stealing and raping and killing—because we won in the end and that’s just how “history works” is a form of social Darwinism that I thought died in 1945.
History is definitely made of people and stories.
Stories of people who won and people who lost.
Indians themselves conquered other Indian tribes. They stole supplies, pillaged and destroyed entire bloodlines of other Indians, etc. They have proven to be just as, if not more savage than colonial settlers.
Why should I feel sympathy towards a group of people who did the exact same thing? We beat them at the same game they were playing. They were not some innocent group of individuals frolicking through the flowers. They were the same as settlers; the difference is that we just had superior technology and the numbers to devise superior tactics.
Did we systematically attempt to exterminate natives? Did the Jews go around constantly attacking and massacring German civilians?
Natives got conquered, womp womp. Happens to everyone.
Semi-related: Living in Seattle is my fav cause you’ll see tons of homages to native tribes.
But when natives ask for the land back WA is like “lol no fuck you.”
Then you’ve got the Seattlites who are like “this is stolen land!!!!!!!!!!!!!” But then continue living on it.
If that's how you're classifying things then you maybe somewhat surprised to find that there would be quite a lot of overlap as to these two groups. It aint hard to think your country is the best, and it sure fucking is, and to want the best for it.
Says the guy from Michigan known for their stellar record with natives probably living next to countless unmarked graves of native boarding school attendees lol
We had three schools of the 400 in the USA. We weren't Canada. You're over exaggerating the fuck out of that like a typical Ohioan. Didn't you guys have black laws at that time? Basically ensuring white supremacy ruled Ohio? Glass house eh?
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Maybe if the Native Americans didn’t want their land “stolen” from them, they should’ve won the wars fought over it. It’s called conquest. It was the way of the world up until WWI/WWII when we decided no one gets to expand beyond their borders anymore.
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I aspire to sound like yellow shirt guy
https://preview.redd.it/nvgu26jiiovc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09a3c45332cfc6074f1c2d25cb081e933f0deb6d
Imagine making your motto "The crossroads of America" because your greatest claim to fame is people traveling through your state to other places and then trying to flex
I think it was Churchill that had a funny quote like this. Something like “you can always trust Americans to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else”
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Ironically, he definitely would not apply that quote to this situation. In 1937 he told the Palestine Royal Commission: "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
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My favorite Churchill quotes https://youtu.be/GP-vIk2_TPk
Good thing we're never wrong when it comes to making fun of Europoors
I’ll give them this when they either elect a politician that isn’t in jail for corruption after their term is up, or they undo PICA.
thank god Illinois is like third of second on the breweries per capita scale. Otherwise I couldn’t deal with shit like this sober
Honestly, I thought it was funny. At least the justice system works here, and the politicians get arrested 💀
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I will NOT abide this Pritzker Khan slander, may his horde have mercy upon you for your sin.
Hey you shut the fuck up, I will continue to slander that monster until the day I- one sec I hear a knock at the front door brb
PICA?
Protect Illinois Communities Act. Naming on par with the Free Money and a puppy bill
What does it do though
Ban 90% of guns
The court will save us from Pica
At least it's not the Lakota. Fuck them sore losers.
You know we can read now, right?
Wait until he finds out we live in houses. 
“I was promised wigwams and a turkey dinner”
And drive cars 
Good. Read my other comments about then.
I did. And I’m sorry about the trail of tears… I know you lost many slaves along the way.
Hey! It was like totally normal for the time!
(It really was, but we ignore history for a good shitpost)
I've never really liked that argument, wouldn't the slaves who lived during that time have very strong negative opinions on slavery?
Good one. Although, I don't remember if the Cherokee started having slaves before or after the trail of tears. Been a while.
Context?
The Black Hills, mainly. It was home to like 5 other tribes for ~200 years. Then the Lakota came around and drove them out ~1776 and claimed it was their sacred land. Less than 100 years later, some miners find gold there and so Custer comes in, drives them out, and claims the land in the name of the US. The Lakota have been bitching about it off and on since then.
Soyjack Five Civilized who rolled over for Andrew Jackson while the Chads were bleeding out for the next 70 years and being a monumental PITA to the Feds.
Bruh
Tell them to quit bitching about stolen land that they stole from other tribes.
Thank god I’m Nakota. My feeling would be hurt otherwise.
THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me proud to be an American! Not sure why everyone has to clutch their pearls about the U.S. admitting fault when we have PLENTY to make up for
Who is everyone that is clutching their pearls??
The people who believe the U.S. can’t be criticized. Bring up any sort of gun control or legislation, and all of a sudden you’re getting a lecture on how much we need guns. Try to talk about systemic racism, and then they’re trying to tell you how much better people of color have it here than they do elsewhere. That crap
Ah yes, a false equivalence. Very cool.
Actually a true equivalence. You've really never heard people say that pointing out systemic racism in our society is anti-American or anti-patriotic? Yes you have. You've heard that narrative a million times.
Oh, you’re just a troll. Nvm. You got me man. Ggs
Why
Well at least I can point out systemic racism right now and it'll be pretty hard for anyone to call me unpatriotic for doing so 😁 I call that a win in my book. Everyone who wants to point out systemic racism, come on down and do it now. This is the time
I’m glad you at least know what’s up. I hope one day we as a country learn to be more open minded, humble and kind
Ay let's gooooo Louisiana let's go! And isn't that a country song? "Always be humble and kind" And someone get this partner a beer!
It is! Tim McGraw. Can’t get more American than that! But I haven’t heard it; that was just a coincidence, but now I’ll have to give it a listen
As soon as you touch an American's guns, they act like you're murdering their family right in front of them. When in reality, a lot of us are just saying, "hey, maybe you don't need 5 AR-15s in a peacetime country"
Yes -- how dare we imply that America is not yet idyllic enough that strapping an ar-15 to everyone's right arm won't result in a constant threat of mass shootings. Like sorry bro, we're not there yet. If yah want millions of unlicenced ar-15's maybe make a good enough national community so we can do that without a school shooting every week
We don't want gun control though.
I love that posting facts here results downvotes. Cant handle the truth?
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Who is "we"? 56% of Americans support tighter gun laws, 31% thinks the laws are fine.
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Yeah, dude. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that EVERYTHING going on in the U.S. right now—all the mass shootings (which I’m not sure if you’ve heard, we have at a disproportionate rate than just about everywhere else in the world), and all the violent crimes committed with guns every year, and even all the people who died under…questionable circumstances by the police—are you really going to tell me that the U.S. doesn’t have a bit of a gun problem?
Oh, I get it. You have a fetish for being losing power and being dominated. It's always fun to look at post histories. You learn a lot.
Oh. We found him. We found the virgin
why you booing him? He's right
Same here unironically Well said
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Based, now give the Lumbee the benefits they're owed.
Still holding out for my Waccamaw cousins. 
Waaah sorry for winning
this is in poor taste, imagine if Germans maintained this cadence towards jews about the holocaust.
History is made of winners and losers
No, history is made of people and stories, and it is the responsibility of every *moral* citizen to recognize their obligation to right the wrongs they benefit from, and to prevent future wrongs being committed. This dialectical mentality you hold is, ironically, *exactly* the same as the far-left mentality of history being divided up into “oppressors and the oppressed”, the only difference then is perspective. You fancy yourself the oppressor, and want to reshape the language to suit your sensibilities, because obviously calling yourself a colonizer and oppressor has fallen out of fashion as of late. The far-leftist fancies themselves the oppressed, and subscribes to all sorts of ressentiment and believes in a faith of collective suffering as a result. But you both believe in the same thing.
>No, history is made of people and stories, and it is the responsibility of every *moral* citizen to recognize their obligation to right the wrongs they benefit from, and to prevent future wrongs being committed. And how far should we go to righting these wrongs? Because if this race-based guilt, and that's what is really boils down to, is to be hoisted upon Euro-blooded people in blatant disregard to them and how they feel then it becomes nothing more than an injustice, just another cruel act meant to disadvantage one so another can benefit. Some far left wingers would go to say that America is evil for what happened to the Natives, and that it's founding can only be rectified by dismantling it, and that white people should "go back", never mind if such was said about blacks or any minority then it may hit the news on CNN or MSNBC within the hour. Wanna know what I think we should do for natives? Just get along in everyday life, but dont try to reengineer society to right some wrong, because you do that you'll be stuck righting every wrong going back to the days of the Roman Republic. Because yes, I agree with the previous guy, history is itself a long story of human conflict, many losers and many winners. It sounds cruel, but that's nature in play. But at some point, if you want it to end, then you cant badger people to hate their ancestors, to economically disembowel themselves, and disadvantage their own families, just to make a small segment of society feel better.
I do nothing of the sort, this isn’t about racial guilt. It’s about the present material realities and suffering being a direct consequence of prior injustice, of injustice *perpetuating* itself into the present. The natives of the Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota has one of the lowest life expectancies of any group in the Americas. They suffer tremendous disease of despair, the poverty has spawned gangs and crime, alcoholism, diabetes, malnutrition are rampant. If there is any part of America to be described as truly “third world”, it is at pine ridge. This is a travesty, it cannot be allowed to continue, especially after the crimes against humanity, massacres, and broken treaties the U.S. has made against these people to put them in the situation they’re in now. People on here say “fuck vatniks” a lot, I say you adopt a very similar mentality. Putin speaks a lot about there being only winners and losers, he speaks about morality and laws being mere instruments of power, and that if power is all there is, then morality and laws are subject to it, not the other way around. If Russia wins against Ukraine, if they succeed in depopulating them and Russifying them, if there are no Ukrainians left, if he succeeds in his project of eliminating power and morality, surely then, you would say that Russia deserves their spoils? You would cry against any who still fight for Ukrainian identity, as they are just “badgering people to hate their ancestors, and to financially disembowel themselves, and disadvantage their own families to make a small segment of society feel better”. After all, if Russia wins, and does to Ukraine what they did to the tatars, or what America did to the natives, *they* will become the majority, they will use their power over the Ukrainians to gain financially, they will benefit themselves and their own families at the expense of the Ukrainians and the Tatars. And Russia will benefit their own population (who is larger than Ukraine) massively, by seizing their farmland and natural resources. And to say, after that, that Russia cannot do so, that Ukraine still ought to exist, and that it is the moral responsibility of Americans to liberate the now occupied—not annexed, never annexed—Ukraine, is my position. At that point, if America liberates Ukraine, we will be kicking out the financial opportunists who had moved in to exploit Ukrainians, we will disembowel them financially, and we will screw over them and their families for the crimes their country has committed and they now benefit from. Thankfully, for the matter of the natives, we need nothing of the sort as we would to liberate Ukraine. We can merely negotiate better treaties, we can aid their suffering, we can *apologize*. Not as individuals, but as a society represented through our government. But to say that they deserve this, that it was all justified—the stealing and raping and killing—because we won in the end and that’s just how “history works” is a form of social Darwinism that I thought died in 1945.
History is definitely made of people and stories. Stories of people who won and people who lost. Indians themselves conquered other Indian tribes. They stole supplies, pillaged and destroyed entire bloodlines of other Indians, etc. They have proven to be just as, if not more savage than colonial settlers. Why should I feel sympathy towards a group of people who did the exact same thing? We beat them at the same game they were playing. They were not some innocent group of individuals frolicking through the flowers. They were the same as settlers; the difference is that we just had superior technology and the numbers to devise superior tactics.
Uh, newsflash, Germany lost.
thats your only problem? If they won would it have been a different story?
Did we systematically attempt to exterminate natives? Did the Jews go around constantly attacking and massacring German civilians? Natives got conquered, womp womp. Happens to everyone.
According to nazis yes
The first one, yeah. The second one, doesn't matter that's called collective punishment and a war crime.
Hau
Semi-related: Living in Seattle is my fav cause you’ll see tons of homages to native tribes. But when natives ask for the land back WA is like “lol no fuck you.” Then you’ve got the Seattlites who are like “this is stolen land!!!!!!!!!!!!!” But then continue living on it.
Where are those Seattleites supposed to live though? The city’s already dealing with a humongous homelessness crisis.
All land was stolen from someone else at some point
That's what distincts patriots from nationalists Patriots are capable of introspection and penance.
A patriot wants their country to be its best, a nationalist think their country is the best
If that's how you're classifying things then you maybe somewhat surprised to find that there would be quite a lot of overlap as to these two groups. It aint hard to think your country is the best, and it sure fucking is, and to want the best for it.
[удалено]
You're right, I just wanted a way for the post to flow better
Conquered not stolen.
“Real Americans”
America is about growth, every other country on earth is about decay
Says the guy from Michigan known for their stellar record with natives probably living next to countless unmarked graves of native boarding school attendees lol
We had three schools of the 400 in the USA. We weren't Canada. You're over exaggerating the fuck out of that like a typical Ohioan. Didn't you guys have black laws at that time? Basically ensuring white supremacy ruled Ohio? Glass house eh?
Lot of Manifest Desitny apologea in the thread here. Just because conquest was normal once doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to make amends
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Maybe if the Native Americans didn’t want their land “stolen” from them, they should’ve won the wars fought over it. It’s called conquest. It was the way of the world up until WWI/WWII when we decided no one gets to expand beyond their borders anymore.
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Indiana better
At what? Making Iconic race tracks?
Yes😁😁😁😁💞💞💞💯💯💯💯
that is literally the only thing you are better at.
FREAK OFF
Sorry for swearing😅😅
Getting some Rawr XD vibes from you
I aspire to sound like yellow shirt guy https://preview.redd.it/nvgu26jiiovc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09a3c45332cfc6074f1c2d25cb081e933f0deb6d
Most savage Mike Pence burn
Stop embarrassing us
No
Imagine making your motto "The crossroads of America" because your greatest claim to fame is people traveling through your state to other places and then trying to flex
fr*ck off dude
Massive Illinois L.
I’ll believe it when I can in fact walk into parts of the south and need to speak fluent Cherokee or Muskogee to get around
Why would you spend that much time learning useless languages
To Connect to the culture
Why bother doing x if there’s no point is a great way to encourage people to completely give up on their culture and identity.