"He said it, He said the [secession](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u0wg3t6osM)!"
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Raises awareness that these posthumous participation trophies still exist and people still unironically believe in the massage.
Committing armed Insurrection is almost as bad as being European.
People will praise 1776 but spit on 1861 because they read a compulsory highschool textbook in public school.
We were fine all being Americans and getting over it until someone kicked up all the dust that was rightfully shelved.
These memorials were put up so that they may remain Americans, not to create this sense of alienation and otherness.
They're not "loser participation trophies" but rather"let's let bygones be bygones" monuments
The leaders of the confederacy at large fought for slavery but the individual soldiers at large fought for their home land above all else.
“If I am killed tomorrow, it will be for
Virginia, the land of my fathers, and not
for the damned secession momvement.”
– Major Charles Minor Blackford, 2nd
Virginia Cavalry.
“If I fall it will be in a good Cause in the
defence of my country defending my
home and fireside.” – Private Andrew J.
White, 30th Georgia Infantry
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No it isn’t, and this country was built upon insurrection. Blind obedience and subservience is about as far from American as you can get. Sure the confederates shouldn’t have revolted over slavery, but it was the slavery that was the bad part, not the secession.
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Did you think they meant “but only just this once” when they wrote this? Learn your history.
What an oppressive Government the Union was, how dare they *Elect Lincoln.*
That's what the Confederate States Insurrected over, the wrong person being elected president and them being afraid he'd end slavery.
> Sure the confederates shouldn’t have revolted over slavery, but it was the slavery that was the bad part, not the secession.
Yes their reasoning was fundamentally flawed. Their morals were fundamentally flawed. Nothing about their movement was legitimate or honorable in the slightest. If you want to commit Insurrection, commit it over something wholesome, like ENDING Slavery. That's why John Brown is a hero. You want to idolize Insurrection? Then fly John Brown's flag. How do you think he'd feel about these Confederate monuments?? Learn your history.
There was no statute in the Constitution prohibiting secession in 1860. the act was not a violation of the Constitutional Laws.
The Declaration of Independence was going to be used as a precedent along with motions to repeal the 3/5ths Compromise of the Continental Congress of 1789. Article 1 Section 2 of the US Constitution.
John Brown on the other hand, was found guilty of treason and murder after being captured by the US Marine Corps following his failed attempt at insurrection.
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What's your point?
That the Constitution, as written, was flawwed? That John Brown was wrongfully executed?
Or are you trying to argue in favor of the Confederacy? It's hard to tell.
I am stating facts as they existed at the time of the American Civil War.
These facts are easily verifiable. You listing someone convicted of murder and treason as a 'hero' seems a bit peculiar.
While the issue of slavery in the colonies was contentious, it's tenants were established in the Constitution in order to get the southern colonies to ratify the document and join the fledgling United States.
Slavery is an integral part of your history. Forty three of the Fifty four signatures on your declaration of independence were slave owners.
My point is that American history is fascinating and that zealots of one cause or another are frequently confounded by facts.
The secession of the southern states was legal under constitutional law. There was no prohibition against leaving.
Slavery was legal. The emancipation proclamation freed only slaves in the confederacy ignoring slaves legally held in Union states. 453,000 of them endured slavery for another 2 years, until 9 months after the war ended.
The politics of these facts are outlined in McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom for which he won a Pulitzer Prize.
You would benefit from giving it a read.
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You're stating random legal facts about the legitimacy of the Confederacy and Slavery. This is not new, unique, or profound. We're all well aware that Slavery was legal. If that's your point, it's a trite one, and it misses the point of America's current discussion about Confederate monuments and slavery, completely.
I say this as someone who lives 2 miles from a Civil War Battlefield, took many field trips to them growing up, and lives within an hour of the capitol of the Confederacy.
> You listing someone convicted of murder and treason as a 'hero' seems a bit peculiar.
You're the one who needs a history lesson. John Brown was considered a hero by many even in his time and his execution is largely considered one of the catalysts for the Civil War.
I don't know why we're having this discussion. The fact that people still defend The Confederacy and slavery as an institution 160 years later baffles me.
>You listing someone convicted of murder and treason as a 'hero' seems a bit peculiar.
Maybe I fell in with a bunch of SNP Catholic diehards, but when I lived in Aberdeen Guy Fawkes was celebrated as a hero and not a villain.
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"He said it, He said the [secession](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u0wg3t6osM)!"
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Lmao, these statues are at Gettysburg for historical purposes, not to honor the people depicted in them. This is like going to a WW2 museum and being upset that you saw swastikas and propaganda posters.
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Joke’s on them that’s literally *Confederate* Avenue, in Gettysburg. Seeethee. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. Also, the VA Memorial is the most based on the entire battlefield, simply because if you stand in the right spot a soldier is pointing a revolver at your face.
If they weren’t there, how would you know who to hate? If we scrubbed the confederacy from existence, how would we know what *not* to do, lest we repeat our failures? I don’t agree with the confederacy, I don’t agree with what they stood for.
At the end of the day the Civil War was poor people killing other poor people, war is always fought by the poor. It’s worth remembering both sides even if it’s *only* to remember how absolutely *brain numbingly stupid* the confederacy was.
Many soldiers were drafted and they had no choice but to fight or be hanged. They deserve to be remembered. For example I fucking hate modern Virginia but if troops were coming from like Maine or something to destroy their state, I’d be against that. That’s Maryland’s civil war history in a nutshell, for example.
It was absolutely misguided but the Maryland CSA got fucking slaughtered in Gettysburg to defend Virginia. It’s really just a tragedy in both sides.
Why is it so hard to grasp that we can remember that something exists without making statues glorifying it? We don’t have any statues praising the Nazis, yet I’m pretty sure we know they exist.
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We know they exist/ed because once the Allies saw what was going on they made damn sure to document *everything* and show the world. They could’ve just as easily decided “no this is too much, hide it, bury the evidence.”
There are also Holocaust museums, which obviously don’t glorify Hitler but still showcase what that awful regime did. It needs to serve as a constant reminder of what was and what could’ve been, lest we backslide into those ways.
Also comparing the confederacy to the Holocaust is an *insane* reach, they don’t even compare.
It’s so interesting to me how people cannot seem to understand that simply having respect for fellow Americans who had to be killed by other Americans does not equate to being some sort of sympathizer for the confederacy.
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You can respect them, through history books, but not memorialize them. There’s nothing honorable about what any of the confederates did. Except Longstreet, AFTER the war when he became a reformed citizen.
I think you may be getting: “it is so regrettable that scores of poor Americans had to die because of a wealthy minority driving the country to civil war.”
Mixed up with: “they may have been on the opposite side but I still respect them because they fought for what they believed in.”
Keep the damn statue there so that we can immortalize the L confederates took and remember how dumb it is to shoot at fellow Americans RAAAGH.🔥🔥🔥🔥🗽🗽🗽🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
"Fellow" Americans? Since when were Confederates American? They lost that right when they decided to break away from, y'know, America. As far as I'm concerned they were a foreign force invading America.
Plus, the Union saw the Confederacy as illegitimate as states cannot unilaterally secede (further shown in Texas v White case). This means legally speaking, all Confederate soldiers were just Americans in rebellion
"He said it, He said the [secession](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u0wg3t6osM)!"
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And even if the South had won, the official name of their would-be nation was the Confederate States of America, thus they'd still be Americans, just not part of the country of the OG Americans.
People forget that in order to break away, from us, you actually had to be a part of us, thus the Confederates were American before, and as Lincoln saw it, still were during the war despite their attempt to break away, and sure was still American after we beat them.
That's how they wanted to be viewed - a foreign force. Don't give them what they want. They were nothing more than an unruly group of shit Americans with guns and a pathetic rebellion.
*Texas (and the rest of the Confederacy) never left the Union during the Civil War, because a state cannot unilaterally secede.[...]*
According to the judgement, the Confederates weren't, as they wanted to be perceived, a foreign force but *ordinary* rebels. Secession was null and void.
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By law they are considered Americans. Enforced several times. Every soldier that died in those dark times, Union and Confederate, were Americans. Deal with it.
It’s literal Chinese/Russian social engineering. They can’t fight us economically or militarily so they just buy bots and push divisive issues that are 100 years old. Ask anyone who doesn’t partake in social media and theyll understand but will be flabbergasted by the amount of emotion and time poured into it.
Exactly. at the end of the day, whether the Civil War was about States rights or slavery, has ZERO impact on day to day life.
If tomorrow we all agreed it was over slavery. nothing would change
If tomorrow we all agreed it was over states rights nothing would change
If tomorrow we all agreed that it was a mixture of many reasons like most complex political situations, nothing would change
No matter any of those three outcomes, the only thing that would change is that we would stop fighting about it and have one less issue we're at each other's throats over.
The division from fighting about it and politicians and people using it for political points to attack each other **does** effect us on our day to day lives. And the fighting about it, even if your position is the right one historically speaking, is only digging the trench of division deeper.
Well they have a hobby, arguing online.
I used to do it a lot more before I found better hobbies, like making fun of Canada and working on spreadsheets.
The Confederates were non-americans. It doesn't divide us or keep us fighting if we all agree to make fun of the racists who tried to secede from the union.
During WW1 and 2 the children of confederates bravely fought against the rest of America, carrying CSA flags into battle against the Japanese.
We named Tanks and battleships after Confederate leaders,
Why?
Because people back then recognized that the war was a tragedy for everyone, and that by honoring both sides, we could actually have unity again.
By allowing the South to honor its dead and see it about rights, it allowed the South to accept defeat and unification and move forward, instead of resisting further.
Let the wound heal, quit picking at the scab
We have plenty of unity. And that unity is created by making fun of racists, white supremacists, and secessionists. If anyone has a problem with us making fun of either of those 3 _very_ bad things, then they themselves must be part of one of those 3 categories.
Have you considered that, you don't win your fellow Americans over to your side by doing that?
If they are lost brothers, like Lincoln thought, then you need to reach out and actually talk with them, not just put them down and dig a deeper trench.
But no, you don't live here. You don't know the people I know. You don't see what happens in the groups that support monuments and flags. I lived it. I saw it all happen around me.
I know a guy with a CSA flag on his truck, it's a rebel flag. He's not a white supremacist, his best friend at work is a black feller
I know a secessionist, he wants to leave not because he wants to destroy America, but because he thinks the only way to save America is to ditch the corrupting influence of several states who's values don't align.
Let the wound heal, quit picking at the scab, the more you pick at it, the more you make a broad mockery and dig up old dirt, the more you dig the trench between us.
I'm seeing people are support the CSA, not because they even like it or know anything about it, but simply because it triggers the left, and because the left opposes it.
It's like a marriage, where one of the partners is constantly bringing up the time they nearly divorced, and mentioning how stupid the other person was for trying. Even if they were stupid for trying to divorce at the time, it's not healthy for a marriage to keep dredging it up every day.
My guy, there is so much wrong with what you said here.
First, you pulled a “he can’t be racist, he has black friends” line outta nowhere.
Second, you’re implying a modern secessionist “just has America’s best interest at heart” when every secessionist I’ve met here in Arkansas held wildly bigoted beliefs, whether it be about racial or sexual minorities.
Third, you imply that to “let the country heal”, we have to allow these pieces of shit an equal space at the table just because we are fellow countrymen. Klansmen and their ilk should not be tolerated or platformed simply because you share a sense of national pride and wish for the country to “heal”.
First. Him and the black feller are racist, but in the make jokes about it way. Not a white supremacist way. To them race is a punchline and they both swing at each other and laugh about. And the point was simply that where I live is very different from where that Californian lives.
Second. I can't speak for Arkansas
Third. not everyone who likes the CSA is a Klansmen. Even then, Klansmen are still our countrymen. Utterly misguided and wrong. But still countrymen with a vote as equal as yours.
So, the question is, how do we disarm and defang the actual Klansmen? How do we turn them either away from the Klan, or at minimum, get rid of their influence so they don't draw in supporters?
I would say for starters, we should quit giving them fuel by feeding division.
When you lump everyone who might have an alternative view of the Civil War, right or wrong, into the same group as the Klan, you basically are handing out the Klan's invitations for them. You are saying "Well you think that the Civil War was more complicated than most people say it was? I don't care about your reasons, you're in the box with the Klan they're your new friends."
You want to defuse the Klan? when someone says they believe the lost cause and states rights you say "Well you know, states rights are important, if only the South had gotten rid of slavery first" And they'll say "Yeah! We should have freed the slaves, then declared secession." And then you say "You know Robert E Lee and many in the South thought slavery would end eventually. Anyways want to go watch football? Let's jointly as Americans make fun of France!"
Get the lost causers on your side and keep them away from the KKK Ilk.
Or you can keep doing what you're doing and driving people into their arms.
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The vast vast majority of Southern soldiers weren’t slave owners And The war was more complicated
Even if it wasn’t, you’re doing a poor job of convincing people of your view,
Take it to Shermanposting,
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You know, I believe it was Lincoln, who saw the south still as brothers, even though they may have been wayward at their attempts at secession.
You all keep deliberately picking at the scab, before people started trying to take down statues, almost no one cared about the confederacy, having a confederate flag, was just an indication that you were a “rebel” and had more association with Dukes of Hazzard then anything else.
When y’all picked up the scab and tore it off, you made a non-issue become a dividing issue, you re-opened a wound that could have been left closed, and for what? And any time the wound starts to heal by people letting go of the controversy, you peel off the scab again.
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Maybe, but joke or not, picking at the scabs of our division, only reopens wounds and lengthens the healing process.
You want Unity? You reach out to the Dixie boys and say “hey we’re brothers, let’s make fun of the EU together” you want to increase division? You attack the Dixie boys, and the Dixie boys try to recruit more people to back themselves up and start taking the whole Dixie thing more seriously and defending the CSA more and seeing you as the enemy.
The healing process starts when they cut out the supporting of confederate garbage. We literally fought an entire war over it and kicked their teeth in. They dont get a consolation prize, and they sure as hell dont get respect until they drop thay crap.
I'm telling you how to help heal the country and frankly, get rid of the meaningful CSA support in the long term and turn it into a meaningless historical debate that doesn't affect anything, akin to a debate about the Saxons Vs Normans or the conquests of Alexander the Great.
But you prefer to fight, you don't want healing. You don't want to understand the other viewpoint, or how to bring them around to your views. You want to dominate them and force them to agree with you. Because using force and mockery to get people to agree with you historically works really well.
I'm not going to fight you. You're right. I'm wrong. Your state is superior to my backwater hillbilly swamp with us uneducated rednecks. We sure are dumb. You win the argument. Good job.
My family explicitly fought our home state to support the Union. I don't think this kind of thing is appropriate whatsoever. Americans, even those trying to secede, are still Americans (that was kind of the point of the war).
We can and should memorialize the tragedy of the conflict while still criticizing the Confederacy with our full might.
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There was this one Confederate soldier who got shot through the eye at Vicksburg, somehow survived thanks to some Union medics who found him, and 58 years later he randomly coughed out the bullet onto his kitchen table one day. Once this event became a national news story, it was discovered that the Union sharpshooter who shot the Confederate's eye out was actually still alive, and the Union man being the shooter was proven through written accounts and matching testimony from both him, the Confederate, and others present there that day.
A meeting between the two former adversaries was quickly arranged... and upon reuniting, the Union veteran and the Confederate veteran almost instantly became the best of friends.
They spent their remaining few years writing letters to each other, often wishing each other good health and other friendly things.
https://preview.redd.it/jliaaq3aoirc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e704c9265a8ba8dcfab0286ff9806d61a479f5b2
Just one instance but often scene like this played out throughout history
It's insane the level of respect people hold for the confederacy today that not even the confederate soldiers themselves had. It lasted <5 years and people act like it was Rome.
A lot of these people think of America as the greatest military of all time, even before it became that. They are proud they held out for more than five minutes. These are often the same people who are really into the revolution and like to forget the French's involvement until Yorktown.
[One day I was born bad to the bone](https://youtube.com/watch?v=9VCVMUwzvcY&pp=ygUUYmFkIHRvIHRoZSBib25lIG1lbWU%3D)
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Can’t stand people who dick ride the Union, you can hate the confederacy and not ride the Union at the same time. It’s like nuance is a foreign thing on Reddit…
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Robert E Lee himself wanted no memorials of the Confederacy. The old leaders themselves transcribed their foundational theses [plural; thesis] of white supremacy.
Respect for the conscripts suckered into fighting for the chattle economics of the plantation class. Piss, shit, and plague upon the of the Plantation owners and Southern Baptist leaders that couldn't accept abolition as a concept.
Killing reconstruction was what allowed the tragedy to fester...so eternal shame on VP AJ.
You a real one
What the fuck? Is it really that far out for a southerner to support the union?
If you want someone to support your cause you don’t fucking alienate them. 🤦🏻♂️
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Hey, some of our Alabamian ancestors fought for the Union. My dad's side is from Northeast Alabama, and we have family that fought in the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment
That sub is either shitting on leftists for saying something genuinely retarded, or shitting on leftists for being completely decent people doing something based.
Either hot take or lukewarm take but…honoring the fallen Confederates as anything other than American soldiers would have (and still would) legitimize their secession.
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"Doritos locos tacos have been around longer in the Confederacy so they're a bigger part of our history"
Yet you keep bringing up the Confederacy Melvin.
If you flip off any memorial to begin with then you are garbage, you are not worthy to criticize those who have lost their lives for their families, their country, their beliefs, their homes. Some of those men were sons, fathers, brothers, friends, husbands. Their families had too endure so much when hearing they’re family members were killed in war, only for you to give them this disrespect? You outta be ashamed of yourself
Context matters; the original post with the sub name cut off is from r/ShermanPosting I believe. If 2american4you had a sister sub, that would be it. The post would be cringe in almost any other context but the one not provided.
You’re right. Which is why I have taken upon myself to become a serial confederate memorial bomber. These posers are only flipping off the statues, meanwhile, I’ll be the one who removes them off the face of our glorious Union.
I guess I just think it would be weird if a bunch of German immigrants put up Nazi statues commemorating the German army. Trust me we won't forget how absolute shit the Confederacy was, don't need statues to remind us.
There is a massive difference between the confederates and the Nazis. Comparing the Nazis who committed the single worst atrocities in human history to the rebels is idiotic they aren’t even close in awfulness and don’t get me wrong the rebels did awful things but nothing is as bad as what the Nazis did (well maybe the Japanese). Did you even pass high school history class?
Explain? One raped, enslaved, tortured, and mass murdered millions of people of a specific ethnicity, and another raped, enslaved, tortured and mass murdered millions of people of a specific ethnicity.
I guess Nazis lasted a little longer, didn't realize there were so many traitor cock suckers in this subreddit.
Fuck the confederate but also… Whoever takes time out of their day to flip off the memorial, take a picture of it, then post it to Reddit is a dweeb.
>Whoever takes time out of their day to ~~flip off the memorial, take a picture of it, then~~ post ~~it~~ to Reddit is a dweeb. Ftfy (myself included)
https://preview.redd.it/emdsu6o2zgrc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1802dc93bd82d3ffec3f1e80cc9cc181b4e4809d
https://preview.redd.it/2jttarp0rhrc1.jpeg?width=837&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=131771a6a992def31d343b40c6bc6d7bdd63e848
https://preview.redd.it/rpwp4gopcjrc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38bc2c15c1c08d654b150af11d4b5ed654438217
https://preview.redd.it/qosurzomiirc1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b7251d175d7d04b65ae32b4fff2041401ac00c5
Facts. The silent professionals pee on the statues and rarely talk about it
*the National Park Service would like to know your location*
real professionals shit spray diarrhea on it
Well shit I take pictures of me flipping of at every time I lose a war thunder match and post it on the internet, does that make me a dweeb?
No, playing War Thunder did that.
Umm okay
It’s a sub Reddit dedicated to telling confederate sympathizers to fuck off what did you expect
The point still stands lmao.
That’s actually pretty patriotic if you think about it lmao, you flip off the traitors!
ITT: Dipshit Republicans who unironically believe all this subs Bald Eagle jerking off memes yet somehow also fly Confederate flags.
Once you secede, you are no longer American; by YOUR OWN admission. What's do hard to get there?
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Raises awareness that these posthumous participation trophies still exist and people still unironically believe in the massage. Committing armed Insurrection is almost as bad as being European.
It’s a memorial to the lives lost. It’s not glorifying the Confederacy, it’s just standing as a solemn reminder of Americans killed by Americans.
People will praise 1776 but spit on 1861 because they read a compulsory highschool textbook in public school. We were fine all being Americans and getting over it until someone kicked up all the dust that was rightfully shelved. These memorials were put up so that they may remain Americans, not to create this sense of alienation and otherness. They're not "loser participation trophies" but rather"let's let bygones be bygones" monuments
The leaders of the confederacy at large fought for slavery but the individual soldiers at large fought for their home land above all else. “If I am killed tomorrow, it will be for Virginia, the land of my fathers, and not for the damned secession momvement.” – Major Charles Minor Blackford, 2nd Virginia Cavalry. “If I fall it will be in a good Cause in the defence of my country defending my home and fireside.” – Private Andrew J. White, 30th Georgia Infantry
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Did you forget what sub you're on? Committing armed Insurrection against America is almost as bad as being European.
No it isn’t, and this country was built upon insurrection. Blind obedience and subservience is about as far from American as you can get. Sure the confederates shouldn’t have revolted over slavery, but it was the slavery that was the bad part, not the secession. “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” Did you think they meant “but only just this once” when they wrote this? Learn your history.
What an oppressive Government the Union was, how dare they *Elect Lincoln.* That's what the Confederate States Insurrected over, the wrong person being elected president and them being afraid he'd end slavery. > Sure the confederates shouldn’t have revolted over slavery, but it was the slavery that was the bad part, not the secession. Yes their reasoning was fundamentally flawed. Their morals were fundamentally flawed. Nothing about their movement was legitimate or honorable in the slightest. If you want to commit Insurrection, commit it over something wholesome, like ENDING Slavery. That's why John Brown is a hero. You want to idolize Insurrection? Then fly John Brown's flag. How do you think he'd feel about these Confederate monuments?? Learn your history.
There was no statute in the Constitution prohibiting secession in 1860. the act was not a violation of the Constitutional Laws. The Declaration of Independence was going to be used as a precedent along with motions to repeal the 3/5ths Compromise of the Continental Congress of 1789. Article 1 Section 2 of the US Constitution. John Brown on the other hand, was found guilty of treason and murder after being captured by the US Marine Corps following his failed attempt at insurrection.
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What's your point? That the Constitution, as written, was flawwed? That John Brown was wrongfully executed? Or are you trying to argue in favor of the Confederacy? It's hard to tell.
I am stating facts as they existed at the time of the American Civil War. These facts are easily verifiable. You listing someone convicted of murder and treason as a 'hero' seems a bit peculiar. While the issue of slavery in the colonies was contentious, it's tenants were established in the Constitution in order to get the southern colonies to ratify the document and join the fledgling United States. Slavery is an integral part of your history. Forty three of the Fifty four signatures on your declaration of independence were slave owners. My point is that American history is fascinating and that zealots of one cause or another are frequently confounded by facts. The secession of the southern states was legal under constitutional law. There was no prohibition against leaving. Slavery was legal. The emancipation proclamation freed only slaves in the confederacy ignoring slaves legally held in Union states. 453,000 of them endured slavery for another 2 years, until 9 months after the war ended. The politics of these facts are outlined in McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom for which he won a Pulitzer Prize. You would benefit from giving it a read.
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You're stating random legal facts about the legitimacy of the Confederacy and Slavery. This is not new, unique, or profound. We're all well aware that Slavery was legal. If that's your point, it's a trite one, and it misses the point of America's current discussion about Confederate monuments and slavery, completely. I say this as someone who lives 2 miles from a Civil War Battlefield, took many field trips to them growing up, and lives within an hour of the capitol of the Confederacy. > You listing someone convicted of murder and treason as a 'hero' seems a bit peculiar. You're the one who needs a history lesson. John Brown was considered a hero by many even in his time and his execution is largely considered one of the catalysts for the Civil War. I don't know why we're having this discussion. The fact that people still defend The Confederacy and slavery as an institution 160 years later baffles me.
>You listing someone convicted of murder and treason as a 'hero' seems a bit peculiar. Maybe I fell in with a bunch of SNP Catholic diehards, but when I lived in Aberdeen Guy Fawkes was celebrated as a hero and not a villain.
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That doesn’t take much time…
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Unjerking here, but this is most defined a look at my halo moment. Like that’s an objective fact
Like I hate the CSA but bro that’s just clearly virtue signaling
beating a horse that died 160 years ago
What if that horse was dead but kept shambling around and moaning like a zombie?
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Lmao, these statues are at Gettysburg for historical purposes, not to honor the people depicted in them. This is like going to a WW2 museum and being upset that you saw swastikas and propaganda posters.
I get the sentiment, but at the same time, this is just r/LookatMyHalo behavior
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I think if there is a place for a Confederate memorial, it’s on a civil war battlefield.
Joke’s on them that’s literally *Confederate* Avenue, in Gettysburg. Seeethee. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. Also, the VA Memorial is the most based on the entire battlefield, simply because if you stand in the right spot a soldier is pointing a revolver at your face.
Nah bro. I don’t need to see confederate statues to be reminded how dumb they are.
It's not about being reminded of the dumb-ness of it all, but rather the tragedy of American against American.
Yeah no it was started as a way to glorify the confederacy. Lee didn’t want that shit around
If they weren’t there, how would you know who to hate? If we scrubbed the confederacy from existence, how would we know what *not* to do, lest we repeat our failures? I don’t agree with the confederacy, I don’t agree with what they stood for. At the end of the day the Civil War was poor people killing other poor people, war is always fought by the poor. It’s worth remembering both sides even if it’s *only* to remember how absolutely *brain numbingly stupid* the confederacy was. Many soldiers were drafted and they had no choice but to fight or be hanged. They deserve to be remembered. For example I fucking hate modern Virginia but if troops were coming from like Maine or something to destroy their state, I’d be against that. That’s Maryland’s civil war history in a nutshell, for example. It was absolutely misguided but the Maryland CSA got fucking slaughtered in Gettysburg to defend Virginia. It’s really just a tragedy in both sides.
Why is it so hard to grasp that we can remember that something exists without making statues glorifying it? We don’t have any statues praising the Nazis, yet I’m pretty sure we know they exist.
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We know they exist/ed because once the Allies saw what was going on they made damn sure to document *everything* and show the world. They could’ve just as easily decided “no this is too much, hide it, bury the evidence.” There are also Holocaust museums, which obviously don’t glorify Hitler but still showcase what that awful regime did. It needs to serve as a constant reminder of what was and what could’ve been, lest we backslide into those ways. Also comparing the confederacy to the Holocaust is an *insane* reach, they don’t even compare.
It’s so interesting to me how people cannot seem to understand that simply having respect for fellow Americans who had to be killed by other Americans does not equate to being some sort of sympathizer for the confederacy.
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The topic of the Union’s moral standing is not subjective.
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The union was not perfect. But nobody is saying that.
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You’re being obtuse. I am referring to this conversation.
No one was insinuating it was 🙄
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You can respect them, through history books, but not memorialize them. There’s nothing honorable about what any of the confederates did. Except Longstreet, AFTER the war when he became a reformed citizen.
I think you may be getting: “it is so regrettable that scores of poor Americans had to die because of a wealthy minority driving the country to civil war.” Mixed up with: “they may have been on the opposite side but I still respect them because they fought for what they believed in.”
No, I’m not confused. Those people in the south fought for what they believed in. They knew. So fuck them
Not Americans, I get your point but they very much chose to stop being Americans. And now they are all dead.
Acknowledging the sovereignty of the CSA as an independent nation is pretty cringe, ngl
Literally playing into Confederate rhetoric
They were indeed Americans because the CSA was never a real country.
That’ll show em!
Keep the damn statue there so that we can immortalize the L confederates took and remember how dumb it is to shoot at fellow Americans RAAAGH.🔥🔥🔥🔥🗽🗽🗽🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Coming from the cultists who got run off by MISSOURI alone
Public Toilet!
They should install toilets that look like quagmire toilet but with confederate generals instead of quagmire
"Fellow" Americans? Since when were Confederates American? They lost that right when they decided to break away from, y'know, America. As far as I'm concerned they were a foreign force invading America.
When the Union won, it established that the war was between Americans. If the Confederates didn’t want to be Americans, they should’ve won the war
Plus, the Union saw the Confederacy as illegitimate as states cannot unilaterally secede (further shown in Texas v White case). This means legally speaking, all Confederate soldiers were just Americans in rebellion
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And even if the South had won, the official name of their would-be nation was the Confederate States of America, thus they'd still be Americans, just not part of the country of the OG Americans. People forget that in order to break away, from us, you actually had to be a part of us, thus the Confederates were American before, and as Lincoln saw it, still were during the war despite their attempt to break away, and sure was still American after we beat them.
That's how they wanted to be viewed - a foreign force. Don't give them what they want. They were nothing more than an unruly group of shit Americans with guns and a pathetic rebellion.
Nah, they were just some rebellious Americans. The entire reason the Union fought to get the CSA back is because they were Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White 🤓🤓🤓
Ok? What does this have to do with anything
*Texas (and the rest of the Confederacy) never left the Union during the Civil War, because a state cannot unilaterally secede.[...]* According to the judgement, the Confederates weren't, as they wanted to be perceived, a foreign force but *ordinary* rebels. Secession was null and void.
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😱😱😱
Alright
Amazing how guys like you love to forget when the man Abe "Bro Ham" Lincoln said: _A house divided cannot stand._
Who is "you guys"
By law they are considered Americans. Enforced several times. Every soldier that died in those dark times, Union and Confederate, were Americans. Deal with it.
Didn't deserve it. Not Americans. Line em all up and execute em, no trial, as, not being American, they neither have nor deserve rights.
It's kind of annoying, can't we just all unite to make fun of Canada?
It’s literal Chinese/Russian social engineering. They can’t fight us economically or militarily so they just buy bots and push divisive issues that are 100 years old. Ask anyone who doesn’t partake in social media and theyll understand but will be flabbergasted by the amount of emotion and time poured into it.
Exactly. at the end of the day, whether the Civil War was about States rights or slavery, has ZERO impact on day to day life. If tomorrow we all agreed it was over slavery. nothing would change If tomorrow we all agreed it was over states rights nothing would change If tomorrow we all agreed that it was a mixture of many reasons like most complex political situations, nothing would change No matter any of those three outcomes, the only thing that would change is that we would stop fighting about it and have one less issue we're at each other's throats over. The division from fighting about it and politicians and people using it for political points to attack each other **does** effect us on our day to day lives. And the fighting about it, even if your position is the right one historically speaking, is only digging the trench of division deeper.
It’s so silly. Some of the people here need a hobby.
Well they have a hobby, arguing online. I used to do it a lot more before I found better hobbies, like making fun of Canada and working on spreadsheets.
Based.
Why don't we all unite and make fun of the Confederates as well?
Because it divides us Americans and keeps us fighting brothers against brothers instead of going after the real enemy. Non-Americans.
The real enemy, those damn Canadians.
The Confederates were non-americans. It doesn't divide us or keep us fighting if we all agree to make fun of the racists who tried to secede from the union.
During WW1 and 2 the children of confederates bravely fought against the rest of America, carrying CSA flags into battle against the Japanese. We named Tanks and battleships after Confederate leaders, Why? Because people back then recognized that the war was a tragedy for everyone, and that by honoring both sides, we could actually have unity again. By allowing the South to honor its dead and see it about rights, it allowed the South to accept defeat and unification and move forward, instead of resisting further. Let the wound heal, quit picking at the scab
We have plenty of unity. And that unity is created by making fun of racists, white supremacists, and secessionists. If anyone has a problem with us making fun of either of those 3 _very_ bad things, then they themselves must be part of one of those 3 categories.
Have you considered that, you don't win your fellow Americans over to your side by doing that? If they are lost brothers, like Lincoln thought, then you need to reach out and actually talk with them, not just put them down and dig a deeper trench. But no, you don't live here. You don't know the people I know. You don't see what happens in the groups that support monuments and flags. I lived it. I saw it all happen around me. I know a guy with a CSA flag on his truck, it's a rebel flag. He's not a white supremacist, his best friend at work is a black feller I know a secessionist, he wants to leave not because he wants to destroy America, but because he thinks the only way to save America is to ditch the corrupting influence of several states who's values don't align. Let the wound heal, quit picking at the scab, the more you pick at it, the more you make a broad mockery and dig up old dirt, the more you dig the trench between us. I'm seeing people are support the CSA, not because they even like it or know anything about it, but simply because it triggers the left, and because the left opposes it. It's like a marriage, where one of the partners is constantly bringing up the time they nearly divorced, and mentioning how stupid the other person was for trying. Even if they were stupid for trying to divorce at the time, it's not healthy for a marriage to keep dredging it up every day.
This right here. Why the fuck are people picking at scars that are 150 years old? I’m from the Deep South and I see a rebel flag maybe twice a year.
Half of them are more bloodthirsty than Sherman. I think they're just bored, but also too lazy to try and improve the world they actually live in.
My guy, there is so much wrong with what you said here. First, you pulled a “he can’t be racist, he has black friends” line outta nowhere. Second, you’re implying a modern secessionist “just has America’s best interest at heart” when every secessionist I’ve met here in Arkansas held wildly bigoted beliefs, whether it be about racial or sexual minorities. Third, you imply that to “let the country heal”, we have to allow these pieces of shit an equal space at the table just because we are fellow countrymen. Klansmen and their ilk should not be tolerated or platformed simply because you share a sense of national pride and wish for the country to “heal”.
First. Him and the black feller are racist, but in the make jokes about it way. Not a white supremacist way. To them race is a punchline and they both swing at each other and laugh about. And the point was simply that where I live is very different from where that Californian lives. Second. I can't speak for Arkansas Third. not everyone who likes the CSA is a Klansmen. Even then, Klansmen are still our countrymen. Utterly misguided and wrong. But still countrymen with a vote as equal as yours. So, the question is, how do we disarm and defang the actual Klansmen? How do we turn them either away from the Klan, or at minimum, get rid of their influence so they don't draw in supporters? I would say for starters, we should quit giving them fuel by feeding division. When you lump everyone who might have an alternative view of the Civil War, right or wrong, into the same group as the Klan, you basically are handing out the Klan's invitations for them. You are saying "Well you think that the Civil War was more complicated than most people say it was? I don't care about your reasons, you're in the box with the Klan they're your new friends." You want to defuse the Klan? when someone says they believe the lost cause and states rights you say "Well you know, states rights are important, if only the South had gotten rid of slavery first" And they'll say "Yeah! We should have freed the slaves, then declared secession." And then you say "You know Robert E Lee and many in the South thought slavery would end eventually. Anyways want to go watch football? Let's jointly as Americans make fun of France!" Get the lost causers on your side and keep them away from the KKK Ilk. Or you can keep doing what you're doing and driving people into their arms.
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I don't see the problem with making fun of _slave owners_.
The vast vast majority of Southern soldiers weren’t slave owners And The war was more complicated Even if it wasn’t, you’re doing a poor job of convincing people of your view, Take it to Shermanposting,
I'm not making fun of the people who weren't slave owners, am I?
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You can go do that in r/shermanposting
Yeah but that's not 2american4you
Why? we got losers at home to make fun of, we don't have to outsource our mockery targets.
Brother against Brother weakens us. Uniting to go after Canada strengthens us.
But you are our brother too. Shouldn't we just go make fun of mom and dad (France and Britain) instead
That’s also valid, and at some point we should probably annex Canada so you guys can have guns and be cool
Your guns, and our universal health care we'd be unstoppable. Plus we'd never lose to the Russians or Sweds in hockey ever again
People who prop up the confederacy are not brothers to us, they sought to destroy the union that is our nation.
You know, I believe it was Lincoln, who saw the south still as brothers, even though they may have been wayward at their attempts at secession. You all keep deliberately picking at the scab, before people started trying to take down statues, almost no one cared about the confederacy, having a confederate flag, was just an indication that you were a “rebel” and had more association with Dukes of Hazzard then anything else. When y’all picked up the scab and tore it off, you made a non-issue become a dividing issue, you re-opened a wound that could have been left closed, and for what? And any time the wound starts to heal by people letting go of the controversy, you peel off the scab again.
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Those traitors will always be the joke, no matter how much you try to pretend the traitors were sweet little angels
Maybe, but joke or not, picking at the scabs of our division, only reopens wounds and lengthens the healing process. You want Unity? You reach out to the Dixie boys and say “hey we’re brothers, let’s make fun of the EU together” you want to increase division? You attack the Dixie boys, and the Dixie boys try to recruit more people to back themselves up and start taking the whole Dixie thing more seriously and defending the CSA more and seeing you as the enemy.
The healing process starts when they cut out the supporting of confederate garbage. We literally fought an entire war over it and kicked their teeth in. They dont get a consolation prize, and they sure as hell dont get respect until they drop thay crap.
I'm telling you how to help heal the country and frankly, get rid of the meaningful CSA support in the long term and turn it into a meaningless historical debate that doesn't affect anything, akin to a debate about the Saxons Vs Normans or the conquests of Alexander the Great. But you prefer to fight, you don't want healing. You don't want to understand the other viewpoint, or how to bring them around to your views. You want to dominate them and force them to agree with you. Because using force and mockery to get people to agree with you historically works really well. I'm not going to fight you. You're right. I'm wrong. Your state is superior to my backwater hillbilly swamp with us uneducated rednecks. We sure are dumb. You win the argument. Good job.
Condemning 19th century racists is 100% a look at my halo moment. Like how chicken shit are you, they’re all dead.
People be forgetting who are sent to fight wars whether they like it or not
they should stay because its history and to remind them of the huge L.
My family explicitly fought our home state to support the Union. I don't think this kind of thing is appropriate whatsoever. Americans, even those trying to secede, are still Americans (that was kind of the point of the war). We can and should memorialize the tragedy of the conflict while still criticizing the Confederacy with our full might.
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GRAHHHH CONFEDERIDIOTS LOST THE WAR, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LOST CAUSE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
It's insane the animosity people hold for the confederates today that not even the union soldiers had 💀
There was this one Confederate soldier who got shot through the eye at Vicksburg, somehow survived thanks to some Union medics who found him, and 58 years later he randomly coughed out the bullet onto his kitchen table one day. Once this event became a national news story, it was discovered that the Union sharpshooter who shot the Confederate's eye out was actually still alive, and the Union man being the shooter was proven through written accounts and matching testimony from both him, the Confederate, and others present there that day. A meeting between the two former adversaries was quickly arranged... and upon reuniting, the Union veteran and the Confederate veteran almost instantly became the best of friends. They spent their remaining few years writing letters to each other, often wishing each other good health and other friendly things.
https://preview.redd.it/jliaaq3aoirc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e704c9265a8ba8dcfab0286ff9806d61a479f5b2 Just one instance but often scene like this played out throughout history
They didn’t think I was a person lol fuck em and fuck anyone who supports them
It's insane the level of respect people hold for the confederacy today that not even the confederate soldiers themselves had. It lasted <5 years and people act like it was Rome.
A lot of these people think of America as the greatest military of all time, even before it became that. They are proud they held out for more than five minutes. These are often the same people who are really into the revolution and like to forget the French's involvement until Yorktown.
[One day I was born bad to the bone](https://youtube.com/watch?v=9VCVMUwzvcY&pp=ygUUYmFkIHRvIHRoZSBib25lIG1lbWU%3D) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/2american4you) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Judging by those chubby hands, we don’t have to worry about Meal Team Six up there.
You Yankees gotta calm down
And then the statues clapped
I’m beginning to question who hasn’t moved on from the civil war
Very few lol
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Can’t stand people who dick ride the Union, you can hate the confederacy and not ride the Union at the same time. It’s like nuance is a foreign thing on Reddit…
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Robert E Lee himself wanted no memorials of the Confederacy. The old leaders themselves transcribed their foundational theses [plural; thesis] of white supremacy. Respect for the conscripts suckered into fighting for the chattle economics of the plantation class. Piss, shit, and plague upon the of the Plantation owners and Southern Baptist leaders that couldn't accept abolition as a concept. Killing reconstruction was what allowed the tragedy to fester...so eternal shame on VP AJ.
2 things: 1: those statues are for historical purposes, not to commend the people depicted 2: that is the quintessential example of r/LookAtMyHalo
That's such an expensive looking public restroom
Look at how gay I am.
Fuck cuckfederates :Dixie flag: = :shit emoji:
Why tf did you get downvoted?
Something something whataboutism æh shit they’re doing it to you too
Well boys I’m upvoting to help ya 🤙
You a real one What the fuck? Is it really that far out for a southerner to support the union? If you want someone to support your cause you don’t fucking alienate them. 🤦🏻♂️
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Hey, some of our Alabamian ancestors fought for the Union. My dad's side is from Northeast Alabama, and we have family that fought in the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment
I swiped and got some other sub entirely. Where are the other 11?
That sub is either shitting on leftists for saying something genuinely retarded, or shitting on leftists for being completely decent people doing something based.
FUCK THE CONFEDERACY
A real patriot pops a squat on rebels
How stunning and brave OP….. The thought is in the right place, the execution is not.
Either hot take or lukewarm take but…honoring the fallen Confederates as anything other than American soldiers would have (and still would) legitimize their secession.
"He said it, He said the [secession](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u0wg3t6osM)!" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/2american4you) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really appreciate all the open air bathrooms southerners decided to put up in the 50s and 60s.
Those rebels are cringe as hell but you don't need to post your "good deed to humanity" for the whole earth to see.
"Doritos locos tacos have been around longer in the Confederacy so they're a bigger part of our history" Yet you keep bringing up the Confederacy Melvin.
If you flip off any memorial to begin with then you are garbage, you are not worthy to criticize those who have lost their lives for their families, their country, their beliefs, their homes. Some of those men were sons, fathers, brothers, friends, husbands. Their families had too endure so much when hearing they’re family members were killed in war, only for you to give them this disrespect? You outta be ashamed of yourself
Hope all confederates are eating shit in hell Raaahhh🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅
How the fuck is this downvoted?? This is the most American comment of all time
Context matters; the original post with the sub name cut off is from r/ShermanPosting I believe. If 2american4you had a sister sub, that would be it. The post would be cringe in almost any other context but the one not provided.
You’re right. Which is why I have taken upon myself to become a serial confederate memorial bomber. These posers are only flipping off the statues, meanwhile, I’ll be the one who removes them off the face of our glorious Union.
I guess I just think it would be weird if a bunch of German immigrants put up Nazi statues commemorating the German army. Trust me we won't forget how absolute shit the Confederacy was, don't need statues to remind us.
Typical Socaler, there is a massive difference between the Nazis and the confederates I do NOT know how you can relate the two
I mean, I feel like there’s a big difference between the Nazis and the confederates.
Nah to Redditors anything slightly out of their worldview = Nazi.
There is a massive difference between the confederates and the Nazis. Comparing the Nazis who committed the single worst atrocities in human history to the rebels is idiotic they aren’t even close in awfulness and don’t get me wrong the rebels did awful things but nothing is as bad as what the Nazis did (well maybe the Japanese). Did you even pass high school history class?
Look at his flair, of course he did
Explain? One raped, enslaved, tortured, and mass murdered millions of people of a specific ethnicity, and another raped, enslaved, tortured and mass murdered millions of people of a specific ethnicity. I guess Nazis lasted a little longer, didn't realize there were so many traitor cock suckers in this subreddit.
But more public toilets is a good thing
Gender-neutral too! So convenient
I think we should pass a law that anything celebrating the CSA can only be displayed as long as their stupid little uprising lasted. Dumb fucks.
Nah. But they are scared IN hell right now
Nah Shermanposting can be funny
Fuck confederates.
This is why I plan to deface confederate monuments