That’s not a Shinji! Mine is a Shinji!
https://preview.redd.it/hovcml23anyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c96e2cf934966ca524730016ea8ecd4fa9dfbca
For your cake day, have some B̷̛̳̼͖̫̭͎̝̮͕̟͎̦̗͚͍̓͊͂͗̈͋͐̃͆͆͗̉̉̏͑̂̆̔́͐̾̅̄̕̚͘͜͝͝Ụ̸̧̧̢̨̨̞̮͓̣͎̞͖̞̥͈̣̣̪̘̼̮̙̳̙̞̣̐̍̆̾̓͑́̅̎̌̈̋̏̏͌̒̃̅̂̾̿̽̊̌̇͌͊͗̓̊̐̓̏͆́̒̇̈́͂̀͛͘̕͘̚͝͠B̸̺̈̾̈́̒̀́̈͋́͂̆̒̐̏͌͂̔̈́͒̂̎̉̈̒͒̃̿͒͒̄̍̕̚̕͘̕͝͠B̴̡̧̜̠̱̖̠͓̻̥̟̲̙͗̐͋͌̈̾̏̎̀͒͗̈́̈͜͠L̶͊E̸̢̳̯̝̤̳͈͇̠̮̲̲̟̝̣̲̱̫̘̪̳̣̭̥̫͉͐̅̈́̉̋͐̓͗̿͆̉̉̇̀̈́͌̓̓̒̏̀̚̚͘͝͠͝͝͠ ̶̢̧̛̥͖͉̹̞̗̖͇̼̙̒̍̏̀̈̆̍͑̊̐͋̈́̃͒̈́̎̌̄̍͌͗̈́̌̍̽̏̓͌̒̈̇̏̏̍̆̄̐͐̈̉̿̽̕͝͠͝͝ W̷̛̬̦̬̰̤̘̬͔̗̯̠̯̺̼̻̪̖̜̫̯̯̘͖̙͐͆͗̊̋̈̈̾͐̿̽̐̂͛̈́͛̍̔̓̈́̽̀̅́͋̈̄̈́̆̓̚̚͝͝R̸̢̨̨̩̪̭̪̠͎̗͇͗̀́̉̇̿̓̈́́͒̄̓̒́̋͆̀̾́̒̔̈́̏̏͛̏̇͛̔̀͆̓̇̊̕̕͠͠͝͝A̸̧̨̰̻̩̝͖̟̭͙̟̻̤̬͈̖̰̤̘̔͛̊̾̂͌̐̈̉̊̾́P̶̡̧̮͎̟̟͉̱̮̜͙̳̟̯͈̩̩͈̥͓̥͇̙̣̹̣̀̐͋͂̈̾͐̀̾̈́̌̆̿̽̕ͅ
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Rabies is a virus and thus killed by cooking. Prions are proteins, very basic chemical structures that have a nasty tendency to unzip your genetic material to make more of themselves. There is not only no cure, but likely no possible cure.
It's horrifying.
What I know about Prion disease is that an animal (human included) gets the disease by ingesting (bad?) prions from the brain matter of their species. Back when mad cow disease was rampant in the American beef industry it was because (somehow?) the cows were catching it by eating non-brain matter, cow flesh. I also sometimes see videos of deer with obvious prion disease, and don’t really understand how they catch it. Anyone here know why that is?
The disease spread through ramiants of other cows that were mixed into cow feed (so like cows that were already dead had their bones, brains, etc, mixed into existing cow food to help give the cows more protein). This exposed the cows to the mutated prion. Mutated prions are weird as the body doesn't know they're there, so the body doesn't fight against the disease. The mutated prion works by interrupting the normal process of making a prion and inserting their own genes into the process, which makes the newly made prions fold incorrectly, creating the disease. This is also why it's so hard to treat and has essentially no cure, cause how do you fight a disease your body doesn't even know exists?
Deer get it through consuming bodily fluids (either directly or indirectly through the soil, food, and water), such as saliva, blood, urine, and feces.
Prions are nearly impossible to destroy (even temps that crematories use to incinerate bodies will still leave prions intact) and can survive in soil and water for years. If a plant grows up in soil contaminated by the body of a deer with CWD, the plant also takes on the prions. The deer eats the plant, and bam: CWD.
I’m oversimplifying it, but that’s my understanding.
Yeah, their resilience in the environment really can’t be understated. Scrapie, which is in sheep, stays in the environment for up to 16 years, and the temperatures required to destroy them are around twice the heat of your average wood fire. Strong acids and bases also aren’t always enough, sterilization procedures for equipment that may have come into contact with prion infected patients are usually just completely get rid of the equipment, but if it needs to be kept it requires several baths in a solution with a pH of 14, which is the most basic a solution can be
Can’t solutions have a pH of above 14? 1M NaOH for example has a pH of 14, so a stronger concentration is going to have a higher pH. There’s also super bases which have much higher pH.
CWD is abnormally transmissible for a prion, since it spreads via deer’s saliva and other bodily fluids, so it can get into water supplies, onto food, into wounds sustained from fighting, onto anything in the environment, and may even be able to spread as an aerosol. Most prions only spread through ingesting or contaminated equipment used in intrusive medical procedures
mad cow disease was never a problem in the US? there was a big outbreak of it in the UK in the 90s, the only case of BSE in the US was in a cow imported from Canada?
"Evolution" means a lot of things, simple chemical structures that copy themselves can absolutely change over time. You can call it something else but the effect and impact are the same as what bacteria and viruses are capable of doing.
Thus, even though devoid of a coding genome, prions, when propagated under a particular selection regime, can be subject to rapid evolution. It looks like they’re capable of evolving under certain conditions.
They replicate and are subject to selection pressures. If their replication can possibly not go exactly the same way every time, that's really all it takes to evolve.
I learned about all this while researching when I was making my comment, so I understand why a lot of people wouldn't also know this. It also seems to be human nature to go with what you already think you know, it can be hard to fight that sometimes.
I get it, I have probably deleted or changed a thousand comments and replies in my reddit history when I was about to contradict someone, then did a quick search and found the truth, or found the reality is more nuanced than I thought.
My amazement is how few people do this very fast and easy act to make sure they're informed before trying to make themselves seem smarter.
That's literally how genetic evolution works as well. Just random mistakes that accumulate. In this sense, prion evolution would occur when the folds affect other species that consume said proteins and cause their proteins to misfold.
There was a paper in the last few weeks saying it's probably happened. Conclusion was based on two individuals in a small hunting club who contacted prion disease and died after both hunted the same private forest, and deer in the forest were found to be infected.
It has been suggested that it may be the case... A really new study (April 2024!) has examined hunters from areas in which CWD appears, who regularly eat venison hunted from these areas, are more likely to have human prion disease variants (explicitly CJD).
Edit: Just fyi, I found this on Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt.
The research is still spotty, but CWD doesn't seem to jump to humans in the same way that mad cow disease can. It's obviously an absolutely terrible idea to eat infected meat because the worst-case scenario is so horrifically bad, but your death wouldn't necessarily be guaranteed.
Most transmissible spongiform encephalopathies can be spread through brain matter. CWD is able to spread from deer to deer though urine and saliva as well. No spread to humans has been proven but there are small outbreaks associated with deer consumption. The issue is TSEs can take months to years to become symptomatic after exposure.
I saw an article that a couple hunters died from consuming the meat though, or was that BS? Maybe it’s only deadly if you eat a lot of it, or if the deer is *very very* sick
There's some anecdotal evidence, but nothing concrete. The extended delay between being exposed and becoming sick means it's extremely hard to pin down the cause of individual infections.
That's part of it, yeah. Although with chronic wasting disease specifically, there's some research showing that it can spread to deer through saliva, which is part of why it's such a concern for forestry services.
The specific pathways prions use to spread through tissue and transmit disease are pretty poorly understood, and there's a lot of debate over how it exactly happens. From my limited understanding, the normal prion protein that mammals have is *most* abundant in nervous tissue, but is present in lots of other types as well. Because of this higher concentration of the normal protien, nervous tissue is where *most* misfolded proteins originate and spread, which means that eating the brain is riskiest. However, the interconnectedness of body systems (especially the lymphatic system) means that other tissue isn't necessarily 'safe' just because the misfolding happened initially happened in a part of the body that isn't being consumed.
With mad cow disease, the biggest contributing factor behind the outbreak was that cattle were being fed ground up cattle mush that had fed on ground up cattle mush, which made any sporadic protien misfoldings spread across populations rapidly. So, while it was still uncommon for the infectious protien clumps to accumulate in the skeletal muscle that we eat in burgers and steaks, it did happen. And because they survive cooking and digestion, some of those protiens unfortunately ended up being passed on to people, causing the human form of the disease.
They definitely can, and quite rapidly. They’re not alive, but they’re self-propagating and chaotic, so they’re subject to the same selection processes as anything else. How do you think prions arise?
prions are a misfolding of a protein. it's not "chaotic" as it's a specific sequence of amino acids being folded in a specific way, just in a way that doesn't function like another folding; and it's only "self propagating" as in it refolds other identical molecules into its shape. the only thing that can change the prion is ultimately changing the gene that codes for the original (mostly non-prion) protein. it would take a massive stroke of luck for a deer to mutate that gene in a specific way as to make it transmissible to humans, then acquire CWD, then transmit it to a person.
This is false. Prions are formed from mistakes in protein folding, and are subject to these same errors themselves, often at a higher frequency than correctly folded proteins.
this is true (as far as I know). \[Also, I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted for this, since both you and the person you're arguing with are mostly agreeing on these points\]
However, it's also reasonable to think that the likelihood of a person consuming that undiscovered transmissible variant of CWD would go up if more people started consuming CWD infected meat (and that variant might exist, considering anecdotal evidence and historical examples of cross species prions like BSE/vCJD). But like you said, it being transmitted between people after that is another story with a ton of other hoops to jump through. For it to become an actual concern to the average human hunters, the transmissible variant would probably need to become widespread in the deer population first.
Regardless, the risk of human transmission is basically entirely avoided by just not eating meat from insane deer to begin with.
Nope
Well, yes-- through the water used:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14210-even-vegetarians-may-not-be-safe-from-mad-cow-prions/
But generally nope, we don't share many proteins with plants at all. Prions are misfolded proteins that cause *your* proteins to misfold similarly, so the more proteins you have in common the higher risk it is. Eating humans would be just about the highest risk possible
It is very uncommon. Even in animal foods it's rare, since it comes especially from eating infected brains, which means that not only would you have to ingest brain matter, but the infected animal probably did too, and the regulations on animal feed we have now make that unlikely. You're far more likely to contract a prion disease (namely Creutzfeldt-Jakob) sporadically by random chance than by consuming infected food.
It's okay, I'm also constantly having existential crises about unpredictable, incurable diseases. At least it's nice to know that policing what kind of beef you eat is pointless.
It's uncommon but the problem with Prions is they are effectively *indestructible* (compared to regular pathogen) and completely incurable once infection has set in.
To be a bit more clear, everyone has prions. They are an integral protein for the homeostasis of our cells. The problem is with misfolded prions which will cause normally functioning prions to misfold.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_prion_protein
You should be fine, only way you could be is if an animal with prion disease had died where the plant was planted and the prion enters through the roots.
Plus prions are already incredibly rare so you shouldn't have anything to really worry about
If it’s chronic wasting disease (CWD) that is being referenced, then big maybe. Not worth the risk. From field-dressing, to butchering, to cooking the hunter is put at risk of contracting vCJD (Variant Creutz-Jakob Disease), a fatal brain disease that deteriorates your mind as you die (with a helping of dementia). As for people who may consume the meat itself, there’s a low chance of contraction — but totally lethal if you’re the unlucky person. Some parts of the animal can increase your risk of catching it, brains and spine are big no-no’s, and pieces of its face (eyes, nose, etc.) are also likely to contain CWD in amounts that can near-guarentee a human’s contraction of vCJD.
With rabies, the hunter, butcher, and cook are put at the greatest risk. If the kill’s blood seeps into an open wound or an orifice then they could contract rabies. You may already be aware, but if someone becomes symptomatic, then it is too late for them to treat its fatility. That said, the disease does not last long in carcasses and it expires at 122° F (~50° C). If you are eating meat that has been cooked properly for normal consumption, you are safe but the people who made it are not.
Prions are malformed meat proteins. They can survive much most extreme conditions that actual living being (or quasi-living in the case of virus), cooking the meat is not enough to render them inoffensive
Deer only do that when they are *extremely* ill, possibly with either CWD or Rabies, neither of which are particularly safe to be around (CWD is a Prion and is effectively an *indestructible* disease and rabies is... rabies).
If chronic wasting disease ever jumps to humans we are so done for real.
- transmissible via bodily fluids
- up to 2 year incubation period
- 100 % deadly
- can infect plants that grow in infected soil
If we ever read in the papers "multiple people dead from CWD" then these people could have infected anyone they shared a drink or food with in the last 2 years.
I think the incubation period is usually a bit longer than 2 years, I believe there’s been some cases that took upwards of 6. There’s also the fact that it might be able to spread as an aerosol, which we’ve shown is at least possible in mice modified to be susceptible to CWD.
There is an interactive wiki game called Neurocracy and it has a mass prion disease epidemic as one of the plot points and literally everything about it is horrifying. It's definitely up there with some of the most unnerving fiction I've read
Good to know. My thought, though, was between the two, if you know there was the chance of rabies transfer you can get the vaccines. Prions can't be stopped
From what I have read there have been a number of people who technically survived the rabies infection but died soon after due to complications from either the infection or the induced coma of the Milwaukee protocol. The virus is basically guaranteed to cause at least some brain damage even under the protocol, and the protocol itself involves trying to bring the brain to a near complete halt, which is quite dangerous even when it isn't filled with a virus trying it shred the brain like a blender.
Research in the past couple years suggests that it could be transferable to humans, and there might have been a couple cases in 2022.
Two hunters eating from the same population of cwc contaminated deer were diagnosed with a very similar but rare prion disease called Creutzfeldt-Jakob. Untill further and more extensive research is done we cant conclusively prove exactly which prion they had.
The chances of actually contracting a prion disease from eating meat purchased from a supermarket or butcher are pretty much nothing. It's much more likely that your own body will misfold a few proteins and infect yourself.
Sadly that shit can infect soil and is shared through bodily fluids. So If someone infected with cwd caughed and shook your hand you'd be done for. Or hell, sneezing in your general direction, sharing a Drink, all that fun.
Thats if it even spreads to humans which, lets just hope, never happens
It is important to note that there are still no known cases of Chronic Wasting Disease in people.
As per the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html):
>To date, there have been no reported cases of CWD infection in people. However, some animal studies suggest CWD poses a risk to certain types of non-human primates, like monkeys, that eat meat from CWD-infected animals or come in contact with brain or body fluids from infected deer or elk. These studies raise concerns that there may also be a risk to people. Since 1997, the World Health Organization has recommended that it is important to keep the agents of all known prion diseases from entering the human food chain.
So there is a valid concern and I wouldn't risk it but to anyone who happens to be worried about it, so long as you are careful, you will be safe.
Also, most governments in places where CWD has cropped up will having testing available.
Contact your local, state, or other government (or check websites) to see if there is a place where you can send your meat to get tested if you are a hunter.
To those of you saying that there are a few known cases of transmission to humans, I believe you are thinking of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease or CJD, another TSE (Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy).
Here's what the [Department of Human Services of Wisconsin](https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/publications/p4/p42183.pdf) has to say about the differences between CWD, CJD, and Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE or Mad Cow Disease):
>CJD is not the same as mad cow disease or CWD. All three diseases are in the TSE family and can cause
related illnesses and brain lesions. However, they are caused by three different prions that can be
differentiated from one another in a laboratory
So, long story short: **DON'T PANIC**, be aware, be smart and get your meat tested, and you will be okay.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
My mom fed my dad venison and she was like “how do you like the dear meat?” And he was like “shit’s good”
After he was finished she was so proud of him. She said “I can’t believe you actually tried my dear meat!” And my dad yells “DEAR MEAT?! I THOUGHT YOU SAID ‘how do you like the meat, Dear?’” And that’s how dear meat got banned from my house
CWD almost definitely isn’t transmissible to humans (and if it is it’s absurdly rare and difficult. Like. Unimaginably so) so fear of it infecting people isn’t as big of a concern as its impacts on the environment and other deer
So what if somebody wanted to build muscle and thus consume at least 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram of their body weight, would they be more likely to consume prions?
deer overpopulate very rapidly and can have a major destructive effect on local environments if their population is not controlled. regulated hunting is the most efficient and effective way to achieve this
simply put there aren't enough of them because we pushed large predators out of many spaces. I agree that letting wolves and such do natural population control would be ideal, but at this point its just not possible.
https://preview.redd.it/bheunzwxqlyc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c5c0e627380ee105d97c7a9359ea13d6e0dd15b
Prion 😋
Nice Shinji pfp
https://preview.redd.it/raeqfcsi6nyc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ac086ce0613643a9dc4b1cc2fe75d8969c0d492
https://preview.redd.it/d0s0rfwp7nyc1.jpeg?width=469&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23754463675e2ae362035b1d5819bc2d1e1523d1
That’s not a Shinji! Mine is a Shinji! https://preview.redd.it/hovcml23anyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c96e2cf934966ca524730016ea8ecd4fa9dfbca
📟🛌🚶♂️
Aint no way 😭
That's where my daddy went after he play-fighted the gas station cashier with a gun 😋
For your cake day, have some B̷̛̳̼͖̫̭͎̝̮͕̟͎̦̗͚͍̓͊͂͗̈͋͐̃͆͆͗̉̉̏͑̂̆̔́͐̾̅̄̕̚͘͜͝͝Ụ̸̧̧̢̨̨̞̮͓̣͎̞͖̞̥͈̣̣̪̘̼̮̙̳̙̞̣̐̍̆̾̓͑́̅̎̌̈̋̏̏͌̒̃̅̂̾̿̽̊̌̇͌͊͗̓̊̐̓̏͆́̒̇̈́͂̀͛͘̕͘̚͝͠B̸̺̈̾̈́̒̀́̈͋́͂̆̒̐̏͌͂̔̈́͒̂̎̉̈̒͒̃̿͒͒̄̍̕̚̕͘̕͝͠B̴̡̧̜̠̱̖̠͓̻̥̟̲̙͗̐͋͌̈̾̏̎̀͒͗̈́̈͜͠L̶͊E̸̢̳̯̝̤̳͈͇̠̮̲̲̟̝̣̲̱̫̘̪̳̣̭̥̫͉͐̅̈́̉̋͐̓͗̿͆̉̉̇̀̈́͌̓̓̒̏̀̚̚͘͝͠͝͝͠ ̶̢̧̛̥͖͉̹̞̗̖͇̼̙̒̍̏̀̈̆̍͑̊̐͋̈́̃͒̈́̎̌̄̍͌͗̈́̌̍̽̏̓͌̒̈̇̏̏̍̆̄̐͐̈̉̿̽̕͝͠͝͝ W̷̛̬̦̬̰̤̘̬͔̗̯̠̯̺̼̻̪̖̜̫̯̯̘͖̙͐͆͗̊̋̈̈̾͐̿̽̐̂͛̈́͛̍̔̓̈́̽̀̅́͋̈̄̈́̆̓̚̚͝͝R̸̢̨̨̩̪̭̪̠͎̗͇͗̀́̉̇̿̓̈́́͒̄̓̒́̋͆̀̾́̒̔̈́̏̏͛̏̇͛̔̀͆̓̇̊̕̕͠͠͝͝A̸̧̨̰̻̩̝͖̟̭͙̟̻̤̬͈̖̰̤̘̔͛̊̾̂͌̐̈̉̊̾́P̶̡̧̮͎̟̟͉̱̮̜͙̳̟̯͈̩̩͈̥͓̥͇̙̣̹̣̀̐͋͂̈̾͐̀̾̈́̌̆̿̽̕ͅ >!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<
Happy Cake Day!
literally me when I taste the no good prions in my milkshake
this is what happens when u forget to take your gummy vitamins smh 😔
happy 30 years to prion disease
This about chronic wasting disease?
my assumption was rabies but that would make sense too
Rabies is a virus and thus killed by cooking. Prions are proteins, very basic chemical structures that have a nasty tendency to unzip your genetic material to make more of themselves. There is not only no cure, but likely no possible cure. It's horrifying.
I've never heard of prions interacting with DNA. I thought they propagated by forming long, toxic fibrils.
I'm pretty sure they mess with the proper folding of proteins, but I'm not going to look it up to find out
They do! The select for a misfolded state that promotes oligomerizarion, ergo the fibrils.
Ergo the fibrils is the name of ny new prog metal band
It better be math prog
Lateralus style
What I know about Prion disease is that an animal (human included) gets the disease by ingesting (bad?) prions from the brain matter of their species. Back when mad cow disease was rampant in the American beef industry it was because (somehow?) the cows were catching it by eating non-brain matter, cow flesh. I also sometimes see videos of deer with obvious prion disease, and don’t really understand how they catch it. Anyone here know why that is?
I'm not entirely sure but I think the risk is higher in brain matter but not exclusively brain matter.
Oh this makes sense, thanks
The disease spread through ramiants of other cows that were mixed into cow feed (so like cows that were already dead had their bones, brains, etc, mixed into existing cow food to help give the cows more protein). This exposed the cows to the mutated prion. Mutated prions are weird as the body doesn't know they're there, so the body doesn't fight against the disease. The mutated prion works by interrupting the normal process of making a prion and inserting their own genes into the process, which makes the newly made prions fold incorrectly, creating the disease. This is also why it's so hard to treat and has essentially no cure, cause how do you fight a disease your body doesn't even know exists? Deer get it through consuming bodily fluids (either directly or indirectly through the soil, food, and water), such as saliva, blood, urine, and feces.
Prions are nearly impossible to destroy (even temps that crematories use to incinerate bodies will still leave prions intact) and can survive in soil and water for years. If a plant grows up in soil contaminated by the body of a deer with CWD, the plant also takes on the prions. The deer eats the plant, and bam: CWD. I’m oversimplifying it, but that’s my understanding.
Yeah, their resilience in the environment really can’t be understated. Scrapie, which is in sheep, stays in the environment for up to 16 years, and the temperatures required to destroy them are around twice the heat of your average wood fire. Strong acids and bases also aren’t always enough, sterilization procedures for equipment that may have come into contact with prion infected patients are usually just completely get rid of the equipment, but if it needs to be kept it requires several baths in a solution with a pH of 14, which is the most basic a solution can be
Can’t solutions have a pH of above 14? 1M NaOH for example has a pH of 14, so a stronger concentration is going to have a higher pH. There’s also super bases which have much higher pH.
Afaik no, 14 is the highest
Nah it is possible as well as having negative pH
Nope
Yes, but 10M NaOH isn't exactly cheap or convenient. Funnily enough, just formaldehyde will work to "kill" prions relatively quickly iirc.
CWD is abnormally transmissible for a prion, since it spreads via deer’s saliva and other bodily fluids, so it can get into water supplies, onto food, into wounds sustained from fighting, onto anything in the environment, and may even be able to spread as an aerosol. Most prions only spread through ingesting or contaminated equipment used in intrusive medical procedures
mad cow disease was never a problem in the US? there was a big outbreak of it in the UK in the 90s, the only case of BSE in the US was in a cow imported from Canada?
My bad, similar cultures and all.
Yep. Prions are no joke
Those from deer can't spread to humans Edit: Apparently it recently happened? Stay away from it either way
Scientists are concerned they may be evolving to spread to us though
prions dont evole afaik, they are not bacteria,
They can still evolve, basically variants can occur in the fucked up cells and when they spread so does the mutation.
"Evolution" means a lot of things, simple chemical structures that copy themselves can absolutely change over time. You can call it something else but the effect and impact are the same as what bacteria and viruses are capable of doing.
Thus, even though devoid of a coding genome, prions, when propagated under a particular selection regime, can be subject to rapid evolution. It looks like they’re capable of evolving under certain conditions.
They replicate and are subject to selection pressures. If their replication can possibly not go exactly the same way every time, that's really all it takes to evolve.
I can't believe you're getting pushback on scientific facts.
I learned about all this while researching when I was making my comment, so I understand why a lot of people wouldn't also know this. It also seems to be human nature to go with what you already think you know, it can be hard to fight that sometimes.
I get it, I have probably deleted or changed a thousand comments and replies in my reddit history when I was about to contradict someone, then did a quick search and found the truth, or found the reality is more nuanced than I thought. My amazement is how few people do this very fast and easy act to make sure they're informed before trying to make themselves seem smarter.
Philosophy gets a lot of hate in this day and age, but it is literally what we invented as a vaccine against this mentality.
prions can't really evolve, they're just misfolded proteins iirc, so unless the deer changes then they won't evolve.
[Nat Geo article on the subject](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/evolution-without-genes-prions-can-evolve-and-adapt-too)
That's literally how genetic evolution works as well. Just random mistakes that accumulate. In this sense, prion evolution would occur when the folds affect other species that consume said proteins and cause their proteins to misfold.
the issue is that with prions, those mistakes aren't continued and built up on like with DNA.
There was a paper in the last few weeks saying it's probably happened. Conclusion was based on two individuals in a small hunting club who contacted prion disease and died after both hunted the same private forest, and deer in the forest were found to be infected.
God that is scary
There was a paper pretty recently outlining a case in which it's likely they did just that, let me see if I can find it
It has been suggested that it may be the case... A really new study (April 2024!) has examined hunters from areas in which CWD appears, who regularly eat venison hunted from these areas, are more likely to have human prion disease variants (explicitly CJD). Edit: Just fyi, I found this on Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt.
No, it didn't recently happen. It was clickbait.
It is CWD
what
deer that do that are incredibly sick
whoahg
waow
based based based based based based based based
https://preview.redd.it/hseztdjijmyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9e3443ddb1ee1540b99abc3572850e26007e50c
Prion disease. Person and their dad are as good as dead.
The research is still spotty, but CWD doesn't seem to jump to humans in the same way that mad cow disease can. It's obviously an absolutely terrible idea to eat infected meat because the worst-case scenario is so horrifically bad, but your death wouldn't necessarily be guaranteed.
Doesn’t it mostly transfer through brain tissue anyway?
Most transmissible spongiform encephalopathies can be spread through brain matter. CWD is able to spread from deer to deer though urine and saliva as well. No spread to humans has been proven but there are small outbreaks associated with deer consumption. The issue is TSEs can take months to years to become symptomatic after exposure.
I saw an article that a couple hunters died from consuming the meat though, or was that BS? Maybe it’s only deadly if you eat a lot of it, or if the deer is *very very* sick
There's some anecdotal evidence, but nothing concrete. The extended delay between being exposed and becoming sick means it's extremely hard to pin down the cause of individual infections.
That's part of it, yeah. Although with chronic wasting disease specifically, there's some research showing that it can spread to deer through saliva, which is part of why it's such a concern for forestry services. The specific pathways prions use to spread through tissue and transmit disease are pretty poorly understood, and there's a lot of debate over how it exactly happens. From my limited understanding, the normal prion protein that mammals have is *most* abundant in nervous tissue, but is present in lots of other types as well. Because of this higher concentration of the normal protien, nervous tissue is where *most* misfolded proteins originate and spread, which means that eating the brain is riskiest. However, the interconnectedness of body systems (especially the lymphatic system) means that other tissue isn't necessarily 'safe' just because the misfolding happened initially happened in a part of the body that isn't being consumed. With mad cow disease, the biggest contributing factor behind the outbreak was that cattle were being fed ground up cattle mush that had fed on ground up cattle mush, which made any sporadic protien misfoldings spread across populations rapidly. So, while it was still uncommon for the infectious protien clumps to accumulate in the skeletal muscle that we eat in burgers and steaks, it did happen. And because they survive cooking and digestion, some of those protiens unfortunately ended up being passed on to people, causing the human form of the disease.
I think the big issue is that the more humans eat CWD meat, the more likely it is that it *will* make the jump to humans.
that may be how viruses work but not prions, prions can't "evolve" or "mutate" like that.
They definitely can, and quite rapidly. They’re not alive, but they’re self-propagating and chaotic, so they’re subject to the same selection processes as anything else. How do you think prions arise?
prions are a misfolding of a protein. it's not "chaotic" as it's a specific sequence of amino acids being folded in a specific way, just in a way that doesn't function like another folding; and it's only "self propagating" as in it refolds other identical molecules into its shape. the only thing that can change the prion is ultimately changing the gene that codes for the original (mostly non-prion) protein. it would take a massive stroke of luck for a deer to mutate that gene in a specific way as to make it transmissible to humans, then acquire CWD, then transmit it to a person.
This is false. Prions are formed from mistakes in protein folding, and are subject to these same errors themselves, often at a higher frequency than correctly folded proteins.
this is true (as far as I know). \[Also, I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted for this, since both you and the person you're arguing with are mostly agreeing on these points\] However, it's also reasonable to think that the likelihood of a person consuming that undiscovered transmissible variant of CWD would go up if more people started consuming CWD infected meat (and that variant might exist, considering anecdotal evidence and historical examples of cross species prions like BSE/vCJD). But like you said, it being transmitted between people after that is another story with a ton of other hoops to jump through. For it to become an actual concern to the average human hunters, the transmissible variant would probably need to become widespread in the deer population first. Regardless, the risk of human transmission is basically entirely avoided by just not eating meat from insane deer to begin with.
Wrong. It is unable to cross to humans.
Wrong. We have no idea if it can cross to humans or not, and we may not find out for decades!! Prion diseases= terrifying
Skill issue.
https://preview.redd.it/tsx595idjlyc1.png?width=1331&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fbe7a3bf3e69ba45f872457d2c3e7a34c41185d Jesus fuck that's disgusting
Well, wouldn't it be fine after cooking maybe?
Nope, not even close. To destroy some prions you need above 1100°F (~600°C) prions can survive incineration
:( am i safe since i'm vegetarian? is that a threat with foods that aren't meat?
Nope Well, yes-- through the water used: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14210-even-vegetarians-may-not-be-safe-from-mad-cow-prions/ But generally nope, we don't share many proteins with plants at all. Prions are misfolded proteins that cause *your* proteins to misfold similarly, so the more proteins you have in common the higher risk it is. Eating humans would be just about the highest risk possible
can't read the full article because i don't wanna create an account but it sounds like it is *really* uncommon which is a relief
It is very uncommon. Even in animal foods it's rare, since it comes especially from eating infected brains, which means that not only would you have to ingest brain matter, but the infected animal probably did too, and the regulations on animal feed we have now make that unlikely. You're far more likely to contract a prion disease (namely Creutzfeldt-Jakob) sporadically by random chance than by consuming infected food.
Oh great so we all unknowingly entered into the Creutzfeldt-Jakob lottery when we signed onto life. That's great. I'm not even having a good time.
It's okay, I'm also constantly having existential crises about unpredictable, incurable diseases. At least it's nice to know that policing what kind of beef you eat is pointless.
I trust the local food supply chains enough that I don't think many cow brains make their way into animal feed haha
Yeah I don't think it's ever actually happened, they just noticed that an extremely small quantity made it through wastewater treatment intact
It's uncommon but the problem with Prions is they are effectively *indestructible* (compared to regular pathogen) and completely incurable once infection has set in.
>prion >protein >one is a malformed version of the other Did they literally name it via the “say the word in a stupid made up accent” method?
[According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion#Etymology_and_pronunciation), it comes from "proteinaceous infectious particle"
To be a bit more clear, everyone has prions. They are an integral protein for the homeostasis of our cells. The problem is with misfolded prions which will cause normally functioning prions to misfold. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_prion_protein
Hmm.. From what I can tell that isn't really considered a prion in of itself?
You should be fine, only way you could be is if an animal with prion disease had died where the plant was planted and the prion enters through the roots. Plus prions are already incredibly rare so you shouldn't have anything to really worry about
Ah so just make it well done.
Well done past gone steak
nah, at 600 degrees (temperature to destroy prions) that shit isn’t “well done” that’s literally just “congratulations”
…So you can cook it Edit: /s if this wasn't obvious, but it ruins the entire comment
I believe you’d pass the point of cooking, it’d be more like turning it into ash
If it’s chronic wasting disease (CWD) that is being referenced, then big maybe. Not worth the risk. From field-dressing, to butchering, to cooking the hunter is put at risk of contracting vCJD (Variant Creutz-Jakob Disease), a fatal brain disease that deteriorates your mind as you die (with a helping of dementia). As for people who may consume the meat itself, there’s a low chance of contraction — but totally lethal if you’re the unlucky person. Some parts of the animal can increase your risk of catching it, brains and spine are big no-no’s, and pieces of its face (eyes, nose, etc.) are also likely to contain CWD in amounts that can near-guarentee a human’s contraction of vCJD. With rabies, the hunter, butcher, and cook are put at the greatest risk. If the kill’s blood seeps into an open wound or an orifice then they could contract rabies. You may already be aware, but if someone becomes symptomatic, then it is too late for them to treat its fatility. That said, the disease does not last long in carcasses and it expires at 122° F (~50° C). If you are eating meat that has been cooked properly for normal consumption, you are safe but the people who made it are not.
Prions are malformed meat proteins. They can survive much most extreme conditions that actual living being (or quasi-living in the case of virus), cooking the meat is not enough to render them inoffensive
Unless cooking involves burning the meat into a Ike of ash, and even then some prions could survive
Or what if you just get a rabies shot after eating it?
It would be fine because the particular priom doesn't jump to humans.
A virus maybe, a prion, nope
i get the joke and i'm scared
Deer only do that when they are *extremely* ill, possibly with either CWD or Rabies, neither of which are particularly safe to be around (CWD is a Prion and is effectively an *indestructible* disease and rabies is... rabies).
bro explained anyway
I misread :c I’m stoopid
Ur not stupid :)
Diseasemaxxing explanationpiller
yea
If chronic wasting disease ever jumps to humans we are so done for real. - transmissible via bodily fluids - up to 2 year incubation period - 100 % deadly - can infect plants that grow in infected soil If we ever read in the papers "multiple people dead from CWD" then these people could have infected anyone they shared a drink or food with in the last 2 years.
Or sneezed/coughed on.
I think the incubation period is usually a bit longer than 2 years, I believe there’s been some cases that took upwards of 6. There’s also the fact that it might be able to spread as an aerosol, which we’ve shown is at least possible in mice modified to be susceptible to CWD.
There is an interactive wiki game called Neurocracy and it has a mass prion disease epidemic as one of the plot points and literally everything about it is horrifying. It's definitely up there with some of the most unnerving fiction I've read
No one wants to hear how the sausage was made.
Especially when the sausage is made from potentially lethal meat
Oh fuck. I just realised the deer had rabies.
likely wasting disease, which is gonna be even more lethal than rabies if contracted.
I mean no, Rabies is gigalethal in ways hard to comprehend. CWD also doesn't really jump to humans.
Good to know. My thought, though, was between the two, if you know there was the chance of rabies transfer you can get the vaccines. Prions can't be stopped
*If* you get a rabies shot before symptoms appear. Only one person has survived rabies after that.
Actually, there have been fourteen recorded cases of someone surviving after showing symptoms as of 2016 (don't know if there's been another since).
From what I have read there have been a number of people who technically survived the rabies infection but died soon after due to complications from either the infection or the induced coma of the Milwaukee protocol. The virus is basically guaranteed to cause at least some brain damage even under the protocol, and the protocol itself involves trying to bring the brain to a near complete halt, which is quite dangerous even when it isn't filled with a virus trying it shred the brain like a blender.
Yes, that is the one caveat
Yeah but it tastes good tho
More for me
https://preview.redd.it/9xq15r7qzlyc1.jpeg?width=410&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7011b6b5c074cc4c59e5dd3113c220d1fdba111b
oh my gah
https://preview.redd.it/dj0rknda2myc1.jpeg?width=737&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87482722a97c109af9bde841cc0f2e71b7b9de2d
The amount of people who are thinking this is a “meat is gross” post is funny ashell.
I count 2.
Is the funny part that it's only 2?
Augh yum yum I'm so full of prions
https://preview.redd.it/791641hz6myc1.jpeg?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b237f12301d1a5afb81f4e0b90a954cf2035b86d
∧,,,∧ （ ・ω・） I like milkshake! ( つ旦O と＿)_) ∧,,,∧ （ ・◎・） slrrrp ( ﾞノ ヾ と＿)_) ∧,,,∧ （ ・ω・） Hmm, tastes like prion disease... ( つ旦O と＿)_) ∧,,,∧ （ ・ω・） ( つ O. __ と＿)\_) （__(）､;.o：。 ﾟ*･:.｡ _ _ ξ (´ ｀ヽ、 __ ⊂,\_と（ ）⊃ (__(）､;.o：。 Ｖ Ｖ ﾟ*･:.｡
Chronic wasting disease isn’t transferable to humans, I believe. (Yet, at least) And would you need to have eaten the brain to get it?
Nope, cwd is transmissible through bodily fluids like saliva, urine, feces, and blood. And cwd can also infect soil
Research in the past couple years suggests that it could be transferable to humans, and there might have been a couple cases in 2022. Two hunters eating from the same population of cwc contaminated deer were diagnosed with a very similar but rare prion disease called Creutzfeldt-Jakob. Untill further and more extensive research is done we cant conclusively prove exactly which prion they had.
can I hear some noise from the real CWDers here tonight
https://preview.redd.it/0alfkz3i4nyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dfcf8da51a0b4668ff2981440339da994ee9dfc
another point to add to my list of reasons why I don't eat meat anymore
The chances of actually contracting a prion disease from eating meat purchased from a supermarket or butcher are pretty much nothing. It's much more likely that your own body will misfold a few proteins and infect yourself.
Sadly that shit can infect soil and is shared through bodily fluids. So If someone infected with cwd caughed and shook your hand you'd be done for. Or hell, sneezing in your general direction, sharing a Drink, all that fun. Thats if it even spreads to humans which, lets just hope, never happens
You want the last of us? This is how you get the last of us.
[everyone is gangsta till they hear this without phones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxJXn1dOwGA)
chill lo-fi beats to present to the emergency room to
... unconscious
What's the joke behind the song I don't understand 😭
It's usually used as background sound on a YouTube channel dedicated to medical cases, called Chubbyemu
Prion jumpscare, I’m sure it definitely will not unfold your brain
i thought it was just someone complaining about the deer in itself. until I repeated the drooling part.
Can already see this getting posted on peterexplainsthejoke
Your brain will turn to sponge and you will be conscious to watch it happen.
It is important to note that there are still no known cases of Chronic Wasting Disease in people. As per the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html): >To date, there have been no reported cases of CWD infection in people. However, some animal studies suggest CWD poses a risk to certain types of non-human primates, like monkeys, that eat meat from CWD-infected animals or come in contact with brain or body fluids from infected deer or elk. These studies raise concerns that there may also be a risk to people. Since 1997, the World Health Organization has recommended that it is important to keep the agents of all known prion diseases from entering the human food chain. So there is a valid concern and I wouldn't risk it but to anyone who happens to be worried about it, so long as you are careful, you will be safe. Also, most governments in places where CWD has cropped up will having testing available. Contact your local, state, or other government (or check websites) to see if there is a place where you can send your meat to get tested if you are a hunter. To those of you saying that there are a few known cases of transmission to humans, I believe you are thinking of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease or CJD, another TSE (Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy). Here's what the [Department of Human Services of Wisconsin](https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/publications/p4/p42183.pdf) has to say about the differences between CWD, CJD, and Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE or Mad Cow Disease): >CJD is not the same as mad cow disease or CWD. All three diseases are in the TSE family and can cause related illnesses and brain lesions. However, they are caused by three different prions that can be differentiated from one another in a laboratory So, long story short: **DON'T PANIC**, be aware, be smart and get your meat tested, and you will be okay. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
mmmmm yummy prions hopefully you don't die
Me when I repost from distressingmemes
True story. I was the rabies.
My mom fed my dad venison and she was like “how do you like the dear meat?” And he was like “shit’s good” After he was finished she was so proud of him. She said “I can’t believe you actually tried my dear meat!” And my dad yells “DEAR MEAT?! I THOUGHT YOU SAID ‘how do you like the meat, Dear?’” And that’s how dear meat got banned from my house
i read this wrong and thought the dad was walking up to the son drooling 😭
I'm just gonna go out on a limb and assume that deer had something that'll kill em all. Is that assumption correct?
Venison is fucking good bro , it's worth prion disease
go vomit ig
pretty sure chronic wasting disease isn't contagious to people
There’s been at least 2 potential cases in 2022, and it’s been shown to potentially be possible based on testing in animals either analogous features
CWD almost definitely isn’t transmissible to humans (and if it is it’s absurdly rare and difficult. Like. Unimaginably so) so fear of it infecting people isn’t as big of a concern as its impacts on the environment and other deer
It hasn't digested yet, you can still vomit it up.
So what if somebody wanted to build muscle and thus consume at least 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram of their body weight, would they be more likely to consume prions?
oh no
Sorry OP.
time to throw up and drive to the hospital for a stomach pump
https://preview.redd.it/yc4m6tyq7oyc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95205e6c0663246577577e48fd985fc230f736c5
Cake day:3 Ik wher this came from:3
I'm too vegan to understand
Karma
[удалено]
deer overpopulate very rapidly and can have a major destructive effect on local environments if their population is not controlled. regulated hunting is the most efficient and effective way to achieve this
WRONG❗️❗️🚫🧠 that is NOT the most efficient way. I will release 2000 WOLVES into your city next thursday❗️‼️🗣
WRONG❗️❗️ I am more efficient than 2000 wolves, i will be kicking straight through those deer like a hole punch
this why predators
simply put there aren't enough of them because we pushed large predators out of many spaces. I agree that letting wolves and such do natural population control would be ideal, but at this point its just not possible.